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Mon Jan 21, 2019, 07:31 PM

Anyone on DU who was not taught to step aside for older person?

Give up their chair, give them their place at the head of the table?

You would think that right wingers would be all about the respect for their elders.

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Reply Anyone on DU who was not taught to step aside for older person? (Original post)
MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 OP
ffr Jan 2019 #1
calimary Jan 2019 #2
redstatebluegirl Jan 2019 #3
Ms. Toad Jan 2019 #4
JI7 Jan 2019 #6
Ms. Toad Jan 2019 #10
JI7 Jan 2019 #16
MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 #18
Ms. Toad Jan 2019 #22
MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 #28
Ms. Toad Jan 2019 #34
MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 #36
Ms. Toad Jan 2019 #37
CreekDog Jan 2019 #53
Ms. Toad Jan 2019 #54
LiberalFighter Jan 2019 #14
Ms. Toad Jan 2019 #21
MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 #19
Ms. Toad Jan 2019 #24
bluestarone Jan 2019 #5
grumpyduck Jan 2019 #8
bluestarone Jan 2019 #12
Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2019 #20
GP6971 Jan 2019 #26
EffieBlack Jan 2019 #29
GulfCoast66 Jan 2019 #33
Solly Mack Jan 2019 #7
liberal N proud Jan 2019 #9
MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 #23
malaise Jan 2019 #11
MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 #30
malaise Jan 2019 #44
Mariana Jan 2019 #49
malaise Jan 2019 #50
TygrBright Jan 2019 #13
Joe941 Jan 2019 #15
MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 #31
whistler162 Jan 2019 #46
d_r Jan 2019 #17
MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 #32
Maeve Jan 2019 #25
LisaM Jan 2019 #27
elocs Jan 2019 #35
MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 #39
MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 #40
Meowmee Jan 2019 #38
MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 #42
Meowmee Jan 2019 #43
jalan48 Jan 2019 #41
JI7 Jan 2019 #45
Kingofalldems Jan 2019 #47
akraven Jan 2019 #48
secondwind Jan 2019 #51
MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 #52

Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 07:32 PM

1. In their case, talk is cheap. Never take them on their word

They are LIARS!

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 07:33 PM

2. I was. You always deferred to the older person.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 07:33 PM

3. Nope, we would get a licking for not doing that.

I can say this generation it is rare to find one who has been taught that. It was common sense to us because it was taught to us from the time we were little.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 07:35 PM

4. How many on DU would step aside for Trump -

even though he is likely older than most of us, and would fall into the catetory that ought to be afforded that respect?

Just pointing out that rules of respect based on age/gender/etc. don't generally override rules of political engagement.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 07:38 PM

6. that's because we know him and what he is about

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Response to JI7 (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 07:45 PM

10. The implication of the OP, offered in the current political context, seemed to be that being taught

to step aside for one's elders trumps politcal engagement.

The two are relatively separate sets of rules.

I suspece we were generally also taught to obey the law, be respectful to police, and comply with their orders - and I am also quite sure that in a political context many of us have intentionally been arrested as part of engaging in civil disobedience - and have not complied with 2 of the 3 "rules," we were taught about how one ought to act in the world.

It really has little to do with specific personalities (although I used Trump as an example because most here believe he deserves no respect) to make the point: Rules of polite discourse generally do not override rules of political engagement.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 07:51 PM

16. I would step aside for Bob Dole and not get in his face

about differences I have with him.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 08:09 PM

18. I think it's our default position

Most of the kids cleared the way for Mr. Phillips. One kid wouldnít move. Shows a certain arrogance.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 08:19 PM

22. You might want to watch again.

Phillips moved toward the group (per his words, in an attempt to intervene between the youth and the Black Israelites). As he was drumming and moving toward the boys, the group closed in a fairly tight circle around him - including (but not limited to) the kid who is the focal point of most of the videos.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #22)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 08:52 PM

28. I watched the long video from beginning to end

But the one taken by BI man did not show up close. Phillips said kids moved aside until the one kid did not. I then saw videos taken by those up close, already showing kids circling Phillips. Seems that the defiant kid started a turnaround in behavior for the worse.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #28)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 09:34 PM

34. I'm not defending his behavior,

But his behavior seemed milder to than that of many of his peers.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #34)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 09:40 PM

36. Understood. I think Phillips was taken aback by Nichlas's behavior

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #36)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 09:49 PM

37. Agreed. n/t

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #34)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 08:32 PM

53. but you are trying to distract from a conversation criticizing his behavior

with some BS comparison comparing Phillips to Trump.

you get away with the concern, you wouldn't likely get away with taking the kid's side against Mr. Phillips.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #53)

Wed Jan 23, 2019, 11:36 PM

54. You must be responding to the wrong post.

The post/subthread you responded to didn't include a single word comparing Phillips to Trump.

As to the comment you most likely intended to respond to - I was still not comparing Phillips to Trump. I was making a point that applying rules of courtesy (i.e. deferrring to one's elders) to political engagement (e.g. no one here would defer to Trump in a political conversation - despite him being an elder to quite a few of us here.

The suggestion that young'uns aren't properly being taught the rules of common courtesy, based on a political engagement, is just as silly as complaining that two wrestlers weren't properly taught the rules of bridge.

The rules of political engagement are not synonymous with the rules of interaction between youth and their elders.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 07:49 PM

14. It would depend on why I should step aside for him.

For his opinon? No
To get a better position in a line? Mostly no
To get a better deal than me? No
To get the choice of which tv station to watch? No

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #14)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 08:15 PM

21. Kind of my point.

General rules of "respect" don't apply in all situations merely because of a difference in ages.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 08:11 PM

19. I almost said "with the exception of Trump," but he's the

Exception to every rule.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 08:21 PM

24. But he's not the only exception -

rules of interaction based on age govern a limited set of circumstances in which other factors don't predominate.

There is no reason to expect apply age-based rules to political engagement. It's like applying market-place rules to an interaction in your kitchen in which you ask your spouse (etc.) for an apple.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 07:35 PM

5. This is kind of unheard of anymore

Respect your elders has gone by the way side!! SAD!

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 07:43 PM

8. I don't know. I get called "sir" by younger people all the time

and it blows me away. Don't know if it's my commanding presence or my military bearing (HA! to both), or that we live in CA, but it happens a lot. Just this morning at a convenience store, a young lady probably in her mid-20s called me "sir."

I used to respond with "you don't have to call me sir - I work for a living," but kinds dropped it recently. Maybe I should go back to it. Always got a smile.

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Response to grumpyduck (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 07:49 PM

12. Well maybe cal. or if you wear a uniform.

I do not see it here much here. I'm glad there are still persons that feel that way though!

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Response to grumpyduck (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 08:14 PM

20. surprised me the first time that happened, too

Oops, when did I get old enough for that?

Still trying to figure out a way to take advantage of my age, though.

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Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 08:42 PM

26. Same here. It took me by surprise

the first time it happened. I was used to Sir in the military, but no one addressed me that way in civilian work of life until maybe about 10 years ago.

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 09:04 PM

29. I'm always amazed when I see elderly people standing on public transportation

while youngsters sit without any self-consciousness or shame.

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 09:25 PM

33. Not in my house or with my friends.

Anyone older than me is respected and called Sir or Mame. And since I am now over 50 I assume a good number of people younger than I.

But then again, I treat all people with respect.

My mother would haunt me if I did differently. Maybe itís a southern thing.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 07:41 PM

7. How I was raised.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 07:44 PM

9. I had a 4 year old say excuse me today

He bumped into me and in response said excuse me.
His mother started to apologize, I told he he was fine and it was refreshing to hear that sort of manners from a child.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 08:20 PM

23. Sweet. He knows about personal space!

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 07:48 PM

11. True story

A childhood friend and I were on a full bus in Manhattan decades ago and a senior citizen entered. My friend got up and offered her the seat and woman shouted at us "What do you think I am - Old"? We never figured out if it was age related or race related.
We still laugh at the incident, but it hasn't stopped any of us for showing respect to older people.

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Response to malaise (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 09:19 PM

30. That's funny. It's like giving up a seat for a woman

Who looks pregnant.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 05:52 AM

44. Ha

except that this woman was older than I am now and I am not young

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Response to malaise (Reply #11)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 03:49 PM

49. That is one reason we see less of it.

I too have seen young people get treated very rudely when they try to be polite and considerate toward old people. Good manners need to go both ways.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #49)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 03:53 PM

50. Yep

That said I have been pleasantly surprised at how many young persons, particularly men hold doors open for me or keep the door open if they see someone else approaching.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 07:49 PM

13. I certainly was.

Also- hold doors for them, give up chairs, offer to carry heavy packages, carry their plate to the table from the buffet, etc.

And on the other side of the family, open the beer bottle for them, let them sit in the front seat, let them pick the teevee channel, etc.

Different manifestations but the same thing: Respect for elders.

We didn't necessarily have to agree with them but we were discouraged (at least on one side of the family) from expressing different views, especially in a way that pointed up the lack of logic or factual basis in their positions. On the other side, we were free to argue but expected to let elders have the last word, even if they didn't convince us.

We weren't necessarily expected to listen to them but we were encouraged to pretend to listen. Or at least not be rude about not listening.

Back then, of course, it was clear they knew very little, anyway.

It's amazing how much they actually did know, in retrospect. I probably would have benefited from listening more.

reminiscently,
Bright

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 07:50 PM

15. It's a two way street. Respect is not being shown to AOC.

 

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Response to Joe941 (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 09:20 PM

31. So true. She doesn't have to bow to anyone. But I'm sure she would yield

Personal space to her elders.

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Response to Joe941 (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 06:11 AM

46. Then perhaps you should give

her some respect! Instead of shoving her name into unrelated conversations.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 07:52 PM

17. well yeah

they would if the older person was white.

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Response to d_r (Reply #17)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 09:21 PM

32. I'm thinking the same

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 08:29 PM

25. There is also one cultural difference thing

I see "manners" posts on Facebook saying kids should be taught to look adults in the eye. That's wrong and especially wrong with a traditional elder (numerous cultures, but particularly Native American).
If an elder looks you in the eye, you properly lower your eyes. Otherwise, you are challenging them and you don't do that. Stepping back is appropriate if they are moving close to you; they are probably trying to get past you.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 08:44 PM

27. Yep, I was. But judging from what I observe on the bus..

this is no longer the case. I've been riding the bus to downtown Seattle for 20 years and have noticed a sea change on people offering seats to those who need them more, including people with canes or casts. The younger riders just don't,, they rarely look up from their devices, and they also always have something in their ears, which disengages them from whatever is occurring around them.

But if this is about Trump, well, he's ceded the right to the respect his age would normally command.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)


Response to elocs (Reply #35)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 09:58 PM

39. Not soooooo quick to condemn but definitely within 60 seconds


And decent apology forthcoming. I donít know why you doubt me.


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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #39)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 10:01 PM

40. Sorry, I just saw that your "we" was not personal to me

So yea, I donít know what lefties in general would do.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 09:55 PM

38. Most are I would guess

This incident has to with fascists and racism who generally ignore this when attacking their victims. Those seen as weak, older, different, threatening to their crazy beliefs etc can be attacked and disrespected.

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Response to Meowmee (Reply #38)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 10:15 PM

42. I'm curious as to whether he saw mr Phillips as a threat or in

Any way confrontational. I just canít see it that kidís way. Mr Phillips looked pretty innocuous to me. However mr Phillips said he sensed fear.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #42)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 04:41 AM

43. I haven't read very much about this

He was obviously not intentionally threatened or attacked in any other way etc of course. When people do things like this they are usually insecure on some basic level and that is part of the cause. They have been emboldened by the events of the last 3 years or so. With fascism etc it is about seeking out your targets and attacking them visciously. I watched a short video clip of the event and Mr Phillipís comments in another video he made after the event. It was so heart breaking to see. If he sensed fear he is probably right.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2019, 10:07 PM

41. I'm not sure some who are quick to bash "Old White Men" would be following your lead.

Our society is becoming more uncivil IMHO.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #41)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 06:10 AM

45. people bash old white men who are uncivil like Trump

do you think Trump represents most old white men ?

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 08:47 AM

47. Kick all Covington threads.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 03:19 PM

48. Especially on the train.

Even if you have to move a kitty!

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Original post)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 03:56 PM

51. My sister and I were obliged to stand when an adult entered a room we were in. This went on until

we were at least 18 years of age....

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Response to secondwind (Reply #51)

Tue Jan 22, 2019, 04:35 PM

52. me, too

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