Why the Hell are we not giving Northam credit/kudos for changing?

[bitterross]

Does everyone here saying he needs to resign not realize some simple facts. First, he was still in school. Second, it was 30+ years ago in the South. Where I grew up in the South Minstrels still took place at that time. The mayor of the town appeared in black face.

The fact that the picture made it into the year book should tell you a lot about the environment in which he grew up.

Why isn't everyone here giving him credit for leaving those racist, bigoted ways behind? In the past.

This is not comparable at all to Kavanaugh. Who still picked a certain type of blonde for his law clerks right up until his appointment to the court.

Seriously, when does a person ever get forgiven by you people here who must have spotless lives?

ON EDIT:

People are clearly not understanding as kids in the South we were surrounded by this sort of thing. It was normal. There was NO reason for him to question whether or not this was offensive. I'll say it again. The fact it made it into the yearbook of a university should tell you that I'm not just excusing him by saying it was part of the environment - it WAS the environment. Hell, I had no clue that it was offensive until I was older than he was. We had 3 TV channels and NO internet. There wasn't anyone shouting down the rafters about these things back then.

[manor321]

1. He can get those kudos out of office. Meanwhile, we move on without him.

[bitterross]

10. No wonder we lose. Everyone needs a perfect person

Well, you know what. They don't exist.

[OliverQ]

18. Yup. Dems strive too hard to be perfect.

Republicans will stand behind anyone. The Dem model doesn't often work well in the real world.

[Beartracks]

53. This is correct. n/t

[LexVegas]

2. He was 25 years old.

[bitterross]

6. So, there's a magic age now?

[LexVegas]

8. You said he was a teenager. He was not.

[people]

3. It wasn't a High School a yearbook!

This was not a high school yearbook - this is a medical school yearbook. He was already done with college and this was his last year of medical school.

[bitterross]

4. That makes my point even more valid than if it were a HS yearbook

The fact that got into a university's year book should speak even louder volumes about the environment at the time.

It just makes my point even more valid.

[Atticus]

15. So, just "goin' with the flow" is all we expect of our leaders? Finger in the wind determines

morality?

[bitterross]

47. It's not just going w/ the flow if you don't know better.

In the 1980s South I grew up in there were not people pushing us all to go against the flow on these things. In the 1980s South I grew up in the African Americans were just moving across the tracks to the neighborhoods where no one but whites had ever lived. Even they were not public about these things being offensive as they tried to assimilate. That was a matter of survival for them then.

Things have changed a lot since then. Why can't people accept that Northam has changed?

[Atticus]

54. I don't believe this is an issue of what people knew, but what they chose to acknowledge

and confront. I grew up on the " white end" of the wrong side of the tracks. Somehow, we managed to figure out that people are people no matter what color they are.

[Hassler]

5. If the Lt Governor was a Repug, would the call for him to resign be as strong ?

I don't think so. As much as we don't want to admit it, it's politics more than principle.

[912gdm]

7. Will you say the same thing about the CovCatholic twits?

in 20-30 years?

[SweetieD]

9. He was an adult. Just a couple years younger than aoc now. He knew what he was

doing. He knew it was racist. His nickname while in college was coonman. He was or is a hardcore racist.

You have no idea if he has changed. He was in a picture dressed in a kkk robe or dressed in black face while saying his interest was "pediatrics" and he became a pediatrician....when he was 25!

There is no way in hell I would let him take care of my kids medical needs because who knows how he would treat them. There are white supremacists who go into certain fields to intentionally harm black people. Yes really. There was just a story of an emt who was exposed on a white supremacist site who said he intentionally ignored black patients needs.

I guess I'm just pissed. And I am black. And it is sickening seeing everyone on du defending him as not "racist". Most racists aren't advertising it in public. Maybe I need to find a new site.

[EffieBlack]

19. THANK YOU!!!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

34. THIS.

And if I may...

There is no way in hell I would let him take care of my kids medical needs because who knows how he would treat them.

Oh but we do know how the medical community treats black people: Terribly. They are undertreated, their pain is underestimated, and black women are much more likely to die in childbirth than white women, *because of racism.* There's a definitely connection between the photo and the kind of health care black people get in this country.

[angrychair]

11. He gets nothing

1) That was college, not high school.
2) he knew it was in that yearbook this whole time but ignored it. Pretended it didn’t exist instead of being a strong leader and dealing with it from the beginning.

Lastly, Virginia has a solid Democrat as their Lt Governor who would be a strong Governor.

[JI7]

12. there is no excuse for what he did but I do feel he changed for the better

[bitterross]

16. So you never exuse any behavior at all?

No one should ever be excused for going along with the crowd as a kid if they've overcome that flaw later?

[bullwinkle428]

13. I'm sorry, but your excuses about blackface acceptance sound almost exactly like

Megyn Kelly's explanation. It was along the lines of "when we were in school, people dressed up in blackface and nobody had a problem with it." She's right around 50 years old, so if you're looking at that same 35-year time frame, she would have been in her early teens when she developed this mindset.

[bitterross]

22. They are exactly alike. Because they are true.

I'm sorry you don't see that what people believed and how they acted back then were exactly as described. They were. The local city council put on the Minstrels and wore black face where I grew up - at the time period we're discussing.

The people have changed since then and that isn't how people feel now. It's not an excuse. It's just reality. Expecting him to have acted in a completely different way than the norms is not reasonable. No one at the time was making a big deal of it.

I suspect Northam has changed since then too. Why is it so damn difficult for people to accept that?

[pnwmom]

14. Because he did it in 1985, not in 45 or 55. And he was a 25 year old med student -- an adult.

Anyone who was an adult in 1985 knows there was no excuse.

[bitterross]

28. NO, not in 1985 in the South.

Not where I grew up.

[pnwmom]

32. I lived in Virginia a few years EARLIER. Good people would have been shocked. n/t

[BlueStater]

30. So you're saying that it should be held against him for the rest of his life?

Racism is a pretty massive character flaw, but if he changed and became a better human being (and, from what I've seen in his political career, he has) then he should be forgiven.

This has nothing to with whether I think he should resign or not. I just don't believe that people should necessarily be eternally judged for who they used to be if they change and improve.

[pnwmom]

33. I think he should have brought this forward BEFORE he campaigned for public office,

like Beto did with his DUI and his misdemeanor offense in college.

[BlueStater]

37. Fair enough. n/t

[backabby-blue]

17. Kudos?

Are you fucking serious? That is some privilege right there. Kudos for doing the bare minimum of being a human. Good god.

[EffieBlack]

21. Pure privilege

Some men can fuck up all they want, and then if they get caught, not only expect to be able to just shrug and say, "my bad" but some people actually APPLAUD them for no longer being a fuck up.

But let a black man screw up, regardless when, how or under what circumstances ...

[backabby-blue]

31. I don't know why I am surprised

at people here defending him. Yes, everyone makes mistakes but how many of us expressed severe hatred for others and expect to be a leader for those people?

[bitterross]

24. Are you a perfect human?

Never made any mistakes? Good for you.

[backabby-blue]

26. I don't want kudos that's for sure.

I never expressed severe hatred for people who did not look like me either.

[bitterross]

36. People wore blackface without thinking - without thinking.

I had no idea that blackface was offensive until I was older.

What everyone fails to realize is that when you are in the midst of it you don't realize what is offensive. It's all around you and almost everyone is doing it. So you have no reason to question it. It's "normal."

[WhiskeyGrinder]

40. You know who always did know blackface was offensive?

Black people. You know who didn't think it was normal? Black people. You know who was kept out of med schools, leadership and other positions of power for decades, and still are? Black people.

[backabby-blue]

42. He knew

It's not just a black face there though to me that is bad enough. There is a Klan man in the pic too. Are you wanting to forget that? Just give it up. It's horrific. It's sheer hatred.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

29. A mistake? Did he get dressed in the dark and put on a klansman costume instead of the

Mickey Mouse?

[pnwmom]

35. Why didn't he apologize for this YEARS AGO, like Beto did with his mistakes in college?

[delisen]

60. Beto cannot be forgiven and I hope we are not subjected to any more

calls for him to run for higher office. He can still be a private citizen however.

[pnwmom]

64. He can't be forgiven for one DUI and a hop over a university fence? n/t

[delisen]

69. Of course not, he was an adult at the time. I personally

cannot forgive him for subjecting me to his dental procedure photo. )However I secretly thought it was gutsy of him and possibly indicated a great sense of humor).

[pnwmom]

71. Yeah that was pretty bad!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. Dude voted for GWB twice. Republicans in the state senate courted him to switch parties.

I mean...

[no_hypocrisy]

23. This country "forgave" USSC Justice Hugo Black and

West Virginia Robert Byrd.

Can we make a decision after this evening's hysteria has passed?

[pnwmom]

38. They were of a different generation. This was 1984, not 1944 or 1954.

And I lived in Virginia several years BEFORE then. No, this wasn't acceptable then. Of course, the Virginians I knew weren't racist.

[no_hypocrisy]

43. I was in Amherst County in the 80s and there was a strong undercurrent of racism.

And you felt it in Norfolk and Hampton Roads as well.

[pnwmom]

45. These were smart enough men to be in medical school and their racist display

was unacceptable. No one I knew in Virginia would have thought it was okay. But I didn't hang out with racists, as he apparently did.

[MrGrieves]

57. Hell I was in Norfolk in 94 and 95 and it was still bad

I remember driving by konnarock VA and there was a sign that said “All N*****s stay off the mountain” in 1994!

Being from Minneapolis MN I was completely shocked and wanted to get the hell out of there as fast as possible.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

25. Also, I'm sitting here cackling at the idea of giving someone kudos for realizing that dressing up

in a racist costume is racist and shameful. Good job! Go be governor!

[LovingA2andMI]

39. Thirty Years Ago....

African-Americans were still fighting for a Martin Luther King, Jr. Holiday while Ralph Thought having a nickname as "Coonman" and having a picture ANYWHERE in a yearbook (but in this case -- NEXT TOO) Blackface and a KKK Uniform was "in fashion".

Seriously, WTF??

#ByeRalph....

[Dawson Leery]

41. I agree. Northam is an ally now.

He is a leading advocate of prison/judicial reform. How many minorities will be freed from this tyranny
under the new rules. Consider that.

[ZZenith]

44. He voted for George W. Bush in 2000 and 2004.

I don’t think his racism is as fleeting nor as innocent as some would have us believe.

[pnwmom]

46. Was he a Republican then? Or a Democrat who didn't like other Democrats? n/t

[ZZenith]

50. Doesn't make a bit of difference.

Question: How completely stupid would a person need to be to vote for George W. Bush not once, but twice?

Answer: Real fucking stupid.

[Cracklin Charlie]

48. I can't agree.

I related in another thread how my high school friends and I refused to don blackface for a long running yearly event at my southern high school. The year was 1975, and I was in 10th grade.

No one in my school was ever asked to black their face again.

I think the governor should resign, and seek a career in race relations. It would be a good thing for his state...a beautiful place with a troubled past, and in a region marked for activity by Trump and his “both sides” friends.

He could rehab himself right back into the governors mansion.

Speaking as someone from Missouri whose governor was forced to resign recently(and I wanted him gone)...don’t put Virginians through it, sir. There are better ways to fix this.

[LexVegas]

49. I was born in Virginia. I never wore blackface or KKK robes.

[Solly Mack]

51. I'm from the South. I knew it was offensive. I knew it was wrong. I knew it was racist.

I knew it as a child and I still know it as an adult.

I didn't need the internet to learn either. And you're wrong, people were shouting it from the rafters and the pulpits and in the streets - perhaps you weren't paying attention.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

52. Hey. With your edit, I encourage you to take a minute and take a step back.

The language you use in your edit indicates that you're white, and your perspective that Northam should get credit for "changing" is also a white perspective. The problem is, that perspective makes it easy to gloss over the pain that the photo and the nickname inflict on black people.

The photo is problematic because it includes someone dressed in a klansman costume, a symbol of literal terror for black families across the south after the war and into the years when Northam was a young boy. It was not ancient history. as you say, "it was normal" and there was "no reason to question whether it was offensive." It was normal *for white people who wanted the status quo to remain as it was.* There was no reason *for white people to question* whether it was offensive, because in a white supremacy, it's not. But for black people, a costume like that at a party meant either laughing and going along with it (in med school, a white institution) to not rock the boat, or speaking up and being labeled a bore at best and uppity, troublesome, "above yourself" and a bad fit for the institution at worst.

Many people knew these symbols were hurtful and offensive, and they were black. When you say "no one knew," you erase their experience, knowledge, stories, history and ancestors. To play down the photo is to play down the lived reality of fear and danger black people across the south faced. Only a few white people had to actually be members of the klan, and only a few crosses had to be burned; that is the nature of terrorism. Just a few incidents keep everyone in line.

Please, reconsider whether this is the battle you want to fight, and whether the way you're fighting it is the best way to do so.

[aeromanKC]

55. Cyndi Hyde Smith just got elected to the Senate

That was just a few months ago.

[Demonaut]

56. it's the mindset behind the actions...I'm disgusted by the those that pillory him.

it was a very different world in 1984

[pnwmom]

65. No. It wasn't THAT different then. I lived in Virginia a few years BEFORE then,

and I'm not talking about a DC suburb.

And this wouldn't have been acceptable among the good Virginians I knew.

[Demonaut]

66. true, has he shown his true colors these many years since?

yes..he has, he's not a racist

[Codeine]

58. It was 1984, for fucks sake.

Some of you are arguing like this happened at the height of Jim Crow or some shit. Pro-tip — even then EVERYONE knew that blackface was some fucked-up bullshit nonsense!

Jesus people; some things aren’t acceptable, and you can’t condemn racism on the Right while trying to paper over the same thing from people on our side.

[Sneederbunk]

59. Suddenly the Franken matter gains clarity.

[JCMach1]

61. Grew up in the deep red South, roughly same generation, would never in a million years

have done such a thing...

[delisen]

62. Authoritarianism is loose in the land and it is not just

infecting Republicans and Russians.

[procon]

63. I can't help but think a bunch of Russian

are ROTFLTAO while stirring the pot to turn Dems against each other and get everyone fighting with each other instead of tearing into Trump.

Just be aware folks, you all know they're out there and how they operate so let's not be manipulated or provoked into rash actions that will have unintended consequences.

[MadDAsHell]

67. Nope. He weren't woke. He gone. nt

[PSPS]

68. Thanks for your "concern."

[Baltimike]

70. This is certainly some food for thought. nt

[treestar]

72. I agree in that no one would change at all

where they can see that they would be stuck forever.