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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI'm so disappointed, sad and a little angry to see so many people not only defend Northam
but to go out of their way to make excuses for and dismiss inexcusable behavior that cannot and should never be dismissed. It astounds me to witness so many people completely ignore the pain and anger of black Americans who are trying to explain why this IS a big deal and Northam should step down as governor. And it is painful to have people tell us that we're overreacting, we've got out priorities mixed up, we're unfairly picking on a man "for something he did 35 years ago."
I don't know how many different times and ways I can explain this. But I'll try again.
This has nothing to do with unfairly "punishing" or refusing to forgive a man for long ago acts. Black people are THE most forgiving people on earth. If we did not have the capacity to forgive and didn't do it constantly, this would be a very different country, if it still existed at all.
So this is not about forgiveness. This is about a man who didn't just hold racist views and eventually grow out of them (if he ever really did). Northam clearly had racist views - ugly, hateful ones, not just unconscious bias - and acted on them in a vicious way. And he did it with pride and and a an arrogant, privileged certainty that it was so ok that he should memorialize it on film and then publish it for posterity in one of only 5 photos he selected to represent his four years of higher education.
This is about a man who seemed to believe that, despite that history, he could just move on and do whatever he wanted with his life and never address it, comment on it, own up to it, explain it or apologize for it. Or, even worse, did he think it really wasn't all that bad, so if it did happen to come out, he'd just deal with it then?
Either way, he hasn't done the work needed to earn forgiveness. Letting something slide for 35 years and then, when it comes out through no effort on his own, to simply say on the very day it's revealed "Whoops! My bad! Can you forgive me?" is not enough. Not by a longshot.
And even worse is the fact that so many people think that IS enough and are telling black folks that WE are wrong for not "letting it go." For not simply saying, "No problem, Governor. You haven't done anything really racist recently (that we know of yet), so of course you're forgiven. And WE apologize for taking so many hours after we heard about it at 5 pm today to absolve you. We hope we didn't cause you any undue discomfort by not immediately jumping to your defense!"
There are few things more annoying than not having our views considered - or, as in this instance, having our opinion and perspective dismissed outright - and then being lectured to on matters of race by people who have not experienced racism and don't seem to be the least bit familiar with racism, its history, it's impact and vestiges on us as a people and as individuals. And when that kind of back of the hand and condescension comes from our allies, it's especially frustrating and astounding.
To my fellow DUers, I urge you to stop telling us why Northam shouldn't bear any consequences for his behavior and dishonesty. Stop telling us we're overreacting. Stop telling us that what he did is no big deal. And PLEASE stop telling us that because a racist criminal is president and a racist sexual abuser is on the Supreme Court, we must shut up and allow a person who paraded around in blackface and/or KKK regalia to hold the highest position of power and honor in the Commonwealth of Virginia.
Stop. Just STOP. And LISTEN to us. Read our words. Try to empathize with our pain and frustration. Understand why we think this behavior is unacceptable in any public official and is especially unacceptable in a man whom black voters put into office.
Pay attention to what WE think and say on this issue because our views matter and if you take the time to consider them, you'll probably learn something. And when it comes down to it, isn't that really the point of these discussions anyway?
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eShirl
(20,257 posts)let yourself hear what she's saying
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)All I'm seeing all over the internet and on the news are demands for him to resign.
zentrum
(9,870 posts)...on DU.
It's really disturbing. Contortions are being made to give him a pass. Look around.
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)minds.
Roy Rolling
(7,632 posts)I don't see any political solution but to resign. But a rush to judgement like in the Franken smear should not be the way a superior party to Republicans should act.
There are three issues:
1. Is it "immoral" ---99% agree it is
2. Should he resign---99% agree, especially since there is a capable Democrat Lieutenant Governor to take his place. With the potential to be even better, though not elected by voters.
3. When should he resign? That is a matter for political experts, and I am unimpressed with the way Al Franken was drummed out of office.
Even if we know the answer immediately what should be done, doing it at the demand of the Republican political party should be viewed with caution before making a permanent political move.
24 or 48 hours (longer if holiday or weekend) seems reasonable to me. Rushing can make it seem worse if it's found he has a treasure trove of racist stuff. The appearance would be that he is rushing to hide evidence. And I wanna know what's out there.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Thanks.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)kstewart33
(6,552 posts)I write this as a long-time fan of your posts. Always intelligent, thoughtful and kind.
I am white. I grew up in Alabama during the 1960s and remember the racism well. When I was a college student in Montgomery, I met George Wallace who invited me into his office when he was Alabama's Governor. We had an interesting talk about politics. I was a member of Sing-Out Alabama which was a group of about 20 teenagers, white and black, who sang about race in performances in north Alabama. I learned good deal about race performing in that group.
When I saw the Northam's yearbook photos, I was stunned. But as I've grown much older, I've thought a good deal about redemption. My immediate question concerned the kind of life that he has lived since the yearbook was published. Has he redeemed himself? Has he changed? I wish that some respectable journalist in the media would examine his actions, his public service, his record to provide some insight that contributes to answering that question. However, I doubt that will happen.
This morning, I read that Northam has told some colleagues that he is not depicted in that photo. That obviously is quite a stretch and a sign of desperation and terribly poor judgment. Absent any information about his life since the yearbook, and his action this morning, I believe he should resign. But I remain a believer in the power of redemption.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)kstewart33
(6,552 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)It sounded like you were telling a black woman that white people can redeem themselves. Perhaps I misread?
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)you two are saying the same thing and disagreeing.
kstewart33
(6,552 posts)My point was that Northam possibly has already been redeemed by his actions since the yearbook was published.
Whether he has already done so is the key question.
If he has, there is no need for him to work on redemption after he's resigned. Because his actions demonstrate that that particular challenge has been met. And so there is no need for him to resign.
But we don't know enough to know whether redemption has happened. And coupled with his embarrassing contention that he is not in the photo, he should resign.
Roy Rolling
(7,632 posts)After four days now I am questioning what is the lasting benefit of him resigning, what is the lasting benefit of him staying?
Is the 1984 picture really a measure of a person's 2019 lifetime of work?
He may have redeemed himself since then, and likely so. But his performance handling this crisis is abysmal. He's done a totally unconvincing job of demonstrating his redemption and truthfulness, and has proven himself a craven, willing-to-lie politician with his news conference.
Sometimes NOT punching back immediately is the best strategy but Northram can't unring that bell now.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)
ariadne0614
(2,174 posts)
DonCoquixote
(13,960 posts)He could have, years ago, said "I was really stupid in college, and I am sorry" he dd not, and as of the time of this post, HAS NOT.
kstewart33
(6,552 posts)Suppose a man physically abuses his girlfriend. He doesn't go home and tell his mother what he did or publicly confess in the public square. But he commits to himself to never treat a woman like that again. And he never does repeat the abuse.
Does redemption first require a public confession? Confess or not, if the bad act is never repeated, that seems to me to be the more important outcome.
I say this, as no fan of Northam.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)The physical abuse was between the man and his girlfriend. It had no broader impact. If he had abused his girlfriend, videotaped it and showed off the video to his friends, and then ran for public office, that would be a different situation.
If, in Northam's case, he had for example, calls a black classmate "n*gg*r" but later apologizes to him and never again behaves that way, I would see no need for him to do a public confession, even if he did decide to run for office (although it would be good for him to talk about this as a teachable moment).
But that's not what happened. Northam engaged in behavior that is very damaging to larger group of people and society. He advanced ugly, violent stereotypes, and proudly displayed it. Who knows how many people were present when he did that an got the message that this behavior and views toward blacks is ok. How many people saw that picture and received reinforcement that this conduct and attitude is acceptable - after all, young doctors do this, so what's the big deal?
In this case, atonement requires much more from a public official seeing the trust of voters than just not repeating the behavior.
I really appreciate your hypo. It's provides excellent food for thought - and made me test my own hypos - but the circumstances are very different. Northam should have done more - even HE thinks he should do much more to atone for his behavior.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)I’m appalled at the excuses being proffered here.
It’s mind blowing.
DemocratSinceBirth
(101,852 posts)
marble falls
(71,926 posts)FreepFryer
(7,086 posts)Baitball Blogger
(52,345 posts)There is a preponderance of evidence that this guy is a Democrat in name alone. For his generation, I can imagine there are more than a few who have to deal with bad judgment photos in their early years, especially growing up in the South. But, come on, this man is no Democrat. He voted for W two times, and who on the Left can defend his comments regarding infanticide?
demosincebirth
(12,826 posts)Baitball Blogger
(52,345 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 3, 2019, 12:12 PM - Edit history (3)
I don't understand blue dogs. They aren't Democrats. Why go out on a limb for them when they are so off the charts on everything that Democrats stand for.
As far as I can tell, he might think he's a Democrat because he thinks Dems will be more supportive of late term abortions. I can see how this might be helpful financially for those in the medical community that will do this kind of procedure. But the Left only approves of late term abortions under extreme conditions and to my knowledge, NO ONE on the left would approve of killing a viable infant. It is no longer a fetus at the point that it is viable.
So, what is going on here?
demosincebirth
(12,826 posts)Many democrats like me just check the box with the " D." This is just my opinion.
mcar
(46,056 posts)I'm white and I'm appalled at what I'm seeing here.
bullwinkle428
(20,662 posts)a low point for me in my nearly 14 years at DU. K&R.
PDittie
(8,322 posts)BootinUp
(51,323 posts)It’s the internet.
SaveOurDemocracy
(4,566 posts)dsc
(53,397 posts)but now maybe you know how I felt seeing people defend Joy Reid.
Boomer
(4,405 posts)I'm a gay woman and although I was taken aback by her earlier views, I'm willing to believe that Reid has grown and learned over the past decades. I recognize that it's a steep learning curve for many people as our culture shifts.
There won't be any one undivided reaction to Northern from black Americans either. But I'm willing to listen to hear what consensus forms. I figure it's their call, not mine.
dsc
(53,397 posts)I said I.
whathehell
(30,468 posts)As a white person of a certain age, I'm amazed at some others here who want to "go easy" on Northam instead of calling for his resignation...Not getting it.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...and I am in no way an expert on Northam or his legislative history. This statement here:
Northam clearly had racist views - ugly, hateful ones, not just unconscious bias - and acted on them in a vicious way.
I take this to mean you believe that back in the day, and maybe even today, he was a racist who actively worked to keep non-white people down. What evidence to have of this beyond this picture? Does he have a legislative history of this?
We are just talking about a photo, right? A 35 year old photo? A photo that he doesn't deny and has owned up to. One piece of information on it's own isn't enough to completely describe a person. I'm not ready to condemn someone based on one data point.
This is a discussion board, where people will discuss and have differing opinions. No one should be prevented from expressing an opinion as long as it isn't hateful. Not you, not me, not anyone. Having a different idea of how to approach a problem (don't get me wrong, the photo is wrong and if he is a different person today most likely regrets taking it) is not an invalidation of your, or anyone else, idea of what should happen.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)"Everything else aside, how'd you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"
The picture may not be a big deal to you. It is to me and many others. But you've helped to illustrate my point. So thanks for that, I think
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)You made a big statement there about him having these hateful views and acting on them.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)so this picture is not evidence of racism to you.
I see it differently.
But you've made your point. I get where you're coming from and see that you have completely missed or have decided to ignore the point of my OP.
I won't be baited into discussing it with you further.
Putting on a KKK "costume" is acting on hateful views. The KKK is the epitome of hate and intimidation; not just a symbol, it's a warning.
What if these two sterling young men had dressed up as a concentration camp victim & a Nazi guard?
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts) TCJ70
(4,387 posts)I also don't think it paints a completely accurate picture of who someone is now. If this were a few years ago that's a completely different discussion. Do you have any evidence that he's acted in a way professionally or legislatively that suggests he's a racist?
People change. People grow. Young people do stupid things. This was over half his lifetime ago. Who is he now?
B Stieg
(2,410 posts)"That book (VMI) listed one of his nicknames as 'Coonman,' which some members interpreted as a racial slur." (WaPo)
So, we DO know which figure Northam is "playing" in the med school pic!
This is correlation. He should resign. Now. 
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts) B Stieg
(2,410 posts)THX!
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)I suppose some people need to see a video of him calling someone the n-word. But only if it were in the past few years. 
Thanks for the OP, Effie. Obviously a lot of people need to read it.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Unless the video shows the hours leading up to the n-word comment and the hours after it, how can you really understand the full context of how and why the person used the epithet? After all, it's not fair to rush to judgment on these things ...
mcar
(46,056 posts)
Dude was 25 and smart enough to get into med school. Anyone who supposed that he was just a kid or has grown is missing the point entirely.
All I have to say is Tamir Rice.
That child's death haunts me.TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...in response to a question about how someone's career and actions have taken shape going forward.
B Stieg
(2,410 posts)
Does it?Racism is more than burning a cross or writing a poll tax law. What's "beyond this picture" is the reality that black people are under-served by the medical community, and that black women in particular fare poorly when they try to access health care.
Another data point is that he either didn't tell his campaign about the photo, which shows a lack of judgment, or his team knew about the photo and thought they could run him anyway, which shows he's surrounded by group of people who have, at the very least, a lack of judgment and a poor understanding of racist imagery and how it affects the black community. Is he the best Virginia Democrats can run?
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)Racism is more than burning a cross or writing a poll tax law. What's "beyond this picture" is the reality that black people are under-served by the medical community, and that black women in particular fare poorly when they try to access health care.
But everything you listed is outside the scope of a single picture and not an answer to the question. Effie claimed that he had racist views and acted on them. Do you know that he underserved black people medically? It's a huge claim and one that shouldn't be levied lightly.
Another data point is that he either didn't tell his campaign about the photo, which shows a lack of judgment, or his team knew about the photo and thought they could run him anyway, which shows he's surrounded by group of people who have, at the very least, a lack of judgment and a poor understanding of racist imagery and how it affects the black community. Is he the best Virginia Democrats can run?
Maybe it wasn't viewed as important since that isn't who he is anymore? Who someone is now and how they have conducted themselves since matters.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)He served in and was influenced by a racist system, the way we all are. If he's not working against it, is that working for it?
If someone knows now about a racist costume that was worn then and thinks it's unimportant, that says quite a lot about who that person is now.
Pepsidog
(6,365 posts)Last edited Sat Feb 2, 2019, 07:05 PM - Edit history (1)
We had to endure a Supreme Court nominee who most likely sexually assaulted a woman 30 years ago then at his confirmation hearing blatantly lied about lots of things. At any other time in our history, I doubt anyone on DU would support Virginia’s governor. However, it is hard to ignore how Dems have been walked over for years, eating their own. It’s the hatred of Trump and the Republicans and what he has done to this country that has some people sticking with Northam. I don’t believe anyone here condones his conduct.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)And Trump and Kavanaugh or feeling walked all over as Democrats are no excuse for dismissing racist behavior.
Atticus
(15,124 posts)they are "condoning" it.
Caliman73
(11,767 posts)We hold our leaders accountable to the values which we claim to represent. We are not hypocrites like Republicans who preach piety but support disgusting people for the sole purpose of obtaining power.
You can view it as being walked on. I view it as not becoming vile and evil people in order to beat vile and evil people.
What I say is that if the Virginia Black Legislative Caucus is calling for a resignation, that means they do not feel that Northam can effectively represent the interests of the Black constituency and to me that carries much more weight than any other group.
Little Star
(17,055 posts)ariadne0614
(2,174 posts)
Ms. Toad
(38,637 posts)As a college yearbook photographer 10 years earlier (74-76), I was not required to obtain consent from the individuals I photographed to include their photos in the yearbook. I did not even know the names of some of the individuals I photographed. If the editorial staff selected my photos for publication, unless those individuals bought the yearbook, they might never have known their photos were in it.
I don't know the policies of Northam's yearbook - but I do have relevant experience in that era that suggests failure to disclose a photograph might not have been a lack of judgment on anyone's part **as to the photograph**. It may simply have been an unknown. I have yet to see an article addressing whether he was aware of the photograph prior to its appearance a few days ago.
That does NOT excuse the behavior - it merely provides a potential counter to the assertions that not only was his behavior inexcusable, but that his failure to disclose the photo prior to his campaign was callous disregard for the power of imagery (and that he should have disclosed it rather than wait for it to be discovered).
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)I'd be very surprised if someone who has the narcissism required to be a politician did not do so.
Ms. Toad
(38,637 posts)And at least in my college you had to purchase a yearbook - and only a small fraction of the students did.
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)It's acceptable today for a white politician to have dressed in blackface as long as it was 35 years ago and you've changed your mind about racism since then.
Yay - what a great campaign poster for Democrats that would make!
Ms. Toad
(38,637 posts)I was responding solely to your assertion that you had a hard time believing anyone with political aspirations hadn't looked at their yearbook
At the time the yearbook came out:
* It was 35 years ago
* He may not have had political aspirations at the time
Those two facts might explain why someone with political aspirations today might not have looked at his yearbook.
In fact, in his press conference yesterday, he said he had not seen the photo until Friday - for reasons remarkably simlar to those I suggested (from my perspective as a college yearbook photographer). He didn't provide photos for his page, the yearbook staff did not obtain his consent, and he didn't buy a yearbook.
I said absolutely nothing even remotely related to your assertion about whether his behavior was acceptable or should be forgiven. Please don't falsely accuse me of things I didn't say.
cyclonefence
(5,151 posts)you and others are not willing to listen to what black people are telling you. White people have tried to gaslight people of color for too long, denying that what they feel and *know* about racism is legitimate. That's rich--perpetrators (as a privileged group) telling the abused group that they're being unfair and mean to their abusers.
Fine. Feel free as, I presume, a white person to not be offended by seeing a photograph of a future governor in blackface, smiling and cocky and self-assured, knowing that his--our--society will not condemn him for this disgusting act. But as a Democrat, I think you owe it to our party to listen and *hear* what people who understand that photo's meaning and its relevance to today far, far better than you or I ever can.
And is it really "a discussion point" after the injured person has told you she is injured, for you to question her right to feel injured? Especially after she has explained to us *exactly* why she is injured? If you have any familiarity at all with Effie's posts, you'll know that this is far from the first time she has tried, kindly and patiently and, yes, lovingly, to tell us something important, only to be met with posts refusing to take her word for something she knows and we don't.
ariadne0614
(2,174 posts)MaryMagdaline
(7,964 posts)I grew up in Georgia, post civil rights era. We lived in fear of KKK rallies coming anywhere close to our town, even though their power had greatly diminished. They were unquestionably a terrorist organization, instilling terror in whites (my people) and exponential terror in black People. How a medical doctor who has to touch and heal humans, black and white, and who wanted to go into pediatrics, had no qualms about dressing as a Klansman or posing in blackface next to hooded Klansman is beyond reprehensible. Arrogant racist asshole. White people in the South knew damn well what he was about. His little all-white school and nearly all white medical profession were all about keeping black people out.
Once you see that hate towards you and your people, it can’t be unseen. Asking black People to forget this is unthinkable. Just no.
mcar
(46,056 posts)
yardwork
(69,364 posts)Dressing up as figures involved with the systemic brutalization of an entire group of people is an example of privileged bigotry. Celebrating the behavior by choosing it as a photo to be published in one's medical school yearbook is an example of really deeply entrenched privileged racism.
It just is.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)See what they do there?
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)yardwork
(69,364 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)And I see what YOU did there!
Seriously, it's amazing that people want to "close the case" and move on when 24 hours ago, no one knew this picture exists. How do we know there aren't more pictures, more examples?
This one picture is horrible. But it's probably not the only one. It was taken at a party with a roll of film on which I assume there were other pictures. This just happened to be the picture Northam's buddies thought were acceptable for the yearbook.
What kind of party was that? What went on there? What were the other people dressed up like? What did they do T the party and what kinds of pictures did they post for?
I have a feeling this isn't the last we'll see or hear about this.
yardwork
(69,364 posts)Some of the fraternities and sororities held racist parties. There was an annual Confederate Ball where students dressed in Confederate uniforms and hoop skirts. I also recall some kind of ugly blackface party that created outrage on campus.
This was a thing. The people who participated were privileged white kids. They were saturated with racism. They didn't even know how racist they were.
yardwork
(69,364 posts)I expect to see a lot more kicking and screaming from white straight men in my lifetime, as their privilege begins to be questioned. And from their white straight female enablers.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...obviously he existed in a place where this was acceptable enough to be put in a yearbook. This was over half his lifetime ago. Have those views carried over into who he is now and has been over time? Do you believe people can change?
yardwork
(69,364 posts)Now he says he can't remember if he was in the photo or not! This is extreme privilege.
As a white woman who went to school in the south at the same time as Northam, I have a pretty good idea what was behind that photo. His defense this morning makes him look even worse.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)He already addressed being in the picture.
yardwork
(69,364 posts)TCJ70
(4,387 posts)You already said you were in the photo. If he really does go that route I'll join the resignation train.
Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam (D) is refusing to resign despite overwhelming pressure from within his own party and has told at least one lawmaker that he now does not think that a racist photo in his 1984 yearbook includes him, Democratic party officials said Saturday.
defacto7
(14,162 posts)We don't need a two face denier in the party or in a governorship.
happybird
(5,393 posts)and now I think he should resign.
Here's what I have been thinking about the last 24 hours.
I grew up very privileged in Virgina in the 80's and 90's and also witnessed Conferate Balls and blackface Halloween "costumes." Young men would compete with their friends to see who could wear the most offensive or outrageous costume, or try to one-up last year's "winner." Racist costumes were the low hanging fruit, no imagination needed but elicits a huge response.
I remember the 80's as the era of racist jokes and disgusting dead baby jokes, and the Greaseman on DC101 every morning.That's a far cry from today's progressive climate of social awareness and the now annual outrage over someone wearing a Mariachi outfit at Halloween. I am thrilled by how much things have changed, and recognize we still have a long, hard way to go. I also remember how things were in the wealthy, overwhelmingly white suburbs of DC and elite prep schools in Richmond back then.
To some of the participants, it was nothing more than a joke. Offensive? Absolutely. That was the entire point. They didn't really think about the people they were mocking (or elevating). It was a means to an end, a way to get all your boys to freak out when you walked into the party. The idea of "there's no one Black at the party, so no one is really getting hurt or truly offended," was the rationalization they subscribed to.
I fully recognize that attitude as bs.
And then you had the group of generational racists who probably got their great grandaddy's hood out of their daddy's closet for the party. This is how they got their sick jollies. Most of these dicks are likely still sitting in the basket of deplorables.
The third group rolled their eyes, privately called them racist assholes, and carried on with the business of getting shitfaced. We all knew which ones were racist assholes and which ones were easily egged-on dumbasses. I was in this third group and I am guilty of not calling people out. I wish I had and I am very sorry I didn't.
In light of what I personally witnessed even later than 1984, I was willing accept Northam's apology, to see the photos as a product of a toxic, insular environment. His modern stances seem to indicate that as he got some experience out in the real world he grew as a human being. I saw his many comments denoucing white supremacists and promoting diversity. That's who I thought he was, as a mature man. And that made me come to the conclusion that he was likely a member of group one: the dumbasses who grew the fuck up once exiting that environment.
I still feel if we are absolutely unwilling to forgive someone for mistakes made when young, what does that say about us? I am very thankful that I am not judged today by the horribly careless, dangerous, and irresponsible behavior of my early 20's.
That's what all I was thinking about yesterday. Plus, the timing of the release after the abortion comments stinks to high heaven.
But, now? Northam now trying to backtrack and say he doesn't know if it's him in the photo?? Fuck that. Fuck him. If he was a man of character, he'd take his blows. I was wrong in my assessment of him.
He needs to resign. Now.
happybird
(5,393 posts)Sorry about all my typos. I'm really bad at typing on my phone and swear the autocorrect is on bath salts, so I keep it turned off. I don't want to keep hitting Edit to fix them.
yardwork
(69,364 posts)
greatbaldeagle
(172 posts)Is that enough evidence for you? 3 years prior to the 1984 yearbook, his 1981 yearbook had a racial slur. Seems like a pattern to me. What excuses do you have for that?
https://archive.org/details/bomb1981virg/page/90
"CBS News uncovered a page from Northam's yearbook at the Virginia Military Institute that had nicknames listed underneath his name. One of them was "Coonman," a racial slur."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ralph-northams-yearbook-page-shows-man-in-kkk-costume-and-another-apparently-in-blackface/
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)The 1980s? LOL.
I was in college then, a predominantly white college at that. Dressing up in blackface to go drinking? Just as appalling and weird then as it is now. Obviously subcultures vary - and the more distance from black people and the less concern for racism, the more likely this nonsense happens. Not a ringing endorsement for standing behind this governor.
Sure, it's inevitable to have different opinions, and there will be lots of opinions defending the actions of a 25-year old privileged white man dressing up in blackface, and then claiming to be prepared to lead in an era where we're supposed to be the non racist party. Good luck with that.
I don't live in Virginia, but I prefer politicians that don't have to discover later in life that dressing in blackface is intolerable. The sooner this governor resigns the better if the goal is to win future elections and strengthen support from your most reliable base - black voters.
Brawndo
(535 posts)I very much doubt there would be a preponderance of lame excuses for him here on DU. The Right has no integrity, we MUST!
Tom Rinaldo
(23,187 posts)
MineralMan
(151,269 posts)They were responsible for his election. Nobody else's opinion really matters. Certainly not the opinions of white people like me who do not even live in Virginia.
Ask the black voters, Northam. Then do what they suggest. You have already heard from the black caucus of the VA legislature. I think that probably reflects the opinion of black voters in that state.
BlueMTexpat
(15,690 posts) 
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)No reason to wait for a special occasion like this to do that, or to stop doing it once this is out of the news cycle.
White voters in Virginia have a stake too. Black people can't dismantle racism by themselves, especially since they don't benefit from it as a group.
And the party nationally has a stake too. Who are we? Can voters of color expect a new standard of anti-racism and interest in real change in the 21st century? Or not?
Paladin
(32,354 posts)
djacq
(1,778 posts)As an African American and a Virginia Resident, I and my family "was" proud voters for Northam. The African American vote, especially with black women, brought Northam that win.
Doesn't matter if it was 35 years ago. Doesn't matter if he is of good character now. He's a good governor and I'm quite sure Northam is a good man, a good doctor, a good veteran, and NOT a racist.
But that image is there and we all see it. But you also can't dismiss the images of African Americans during Slavery, Reconstruction, and Jim Crow. Watch the 60 Minutes segment on Lynching and The National Memorial for Peace and Justice. Look at the images of unarmed young men being killed.
Should I tell my two adult black children to dismiss the images of their heritage? So, why should I or any DU member here should easily dismiss images of Northam in either of the two individuals.
I can't take back my vote but Northam can do the right thing and resign.
JaneQPublic
(7,117 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)
Clash City Rocker
(3,546 posts)
Trueblue Texan
(4,464 posts)I think the governor should resign. This is based on my values, not on politics. And I try to base my politics on my values not the other way around. My husband and I also had a fight about this last night. We should be the change we want to see in the world instead of justifiers of the tools we think will get us there.
BlueIndyBlue
(96 posts)Thank you for this Effie! Yup this is a message board with lots of opinions but I bet that if he had donned an Adolf Hitler getup you wouldn't see the all the excuses. Racism and white privilege are so baked into the fabric of our daily lives why should it be different here at DU?
sheshe2
(97,626 posts)kcr
(15,522 posts)You made mistakes when you were young, too! We all have! No. It's not the same thing. There are the youthful mistakes made while learning life that most of us endured, and then there are mistakes that don't go into the "Everyone's done it" column. They're the ones that speak to character and how one views the world and the people around them. People can change, but that doesn't mean the hurt and damage they caused others magically disappears. Sometimes the past comes back and bites you.
people
(844 posts)I was also very surprised at how many people on DU said things like "who didn't do stupid things in their youth?" This is not just stupid-- it is profoundly hateful, threatening and way beyond insensitive. There may be many white southerners who took these kinds of pictures of themselves in their 20's but unless they expose it themselves (before becoming office holders) and explain it voluntarily and how they have changed, I don't want them running a city, a state or a country. The fact that this was exposed yesterday in this era when hate is no longer hidden under a rock is bad. He should have addressed this photograph and who he was then during his campaign -- instead he chose to let this happen. The fact that Kavanaugh is on the supreme court and T is president makes this even worse, not better.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)In their 20s or any time.
And please bear in mind, the KKK was not an exclusively southern thing.
MaryMagdaline
(7,964 posts)The victims are the only ones who have the right to forgive. There’s no mandatory forgiveness.
Enoki33
(1,605 posts)the many reasons already painfully and eloquently laid out, but also for the future of the Democratic Party in Virginia and the 87% of black people that supported him. It confuses me that some of the apologists for Northam here on DU have been in the past offered very vociferous condemnation of white privilege. Now may be a good time to remember we are better than that, or so we keep saying.
c-rational
(3,203 posts)spot on. You have eloquently described this sorrowful situation and I completely agree with the positions you have put forth. Northam should resign - period.
Politicub
(12,328 posts)The photo is indefensible. He was 25 when it was taken.
I support dems. But saying that also means I support democratic ideals, and symbols of hatred and bigotry have no place in our party.
It doesn’t matter to me if Northam’s views have changed. Just as I want to see the confederate memorial on Stone Mountain sandblasted away, I don’t want to have a reminder of such overt racism, by way of Northam, to be the representative of our party in Virginia.
whathehell
(30,468 posts)Covington High School kid.
Politicub
(12,328 posts)
treestar
(82,383 posts)Isn't that what we want? If people are racists, it would be good to see them grow out of that.
I don't know if Northam has, but if he has, it would be better to accept him and any who have done so into the fold. It would undermine progress not to. It's akin to Hillary and Elizabeth Warren having once been Republicans. Why stick people forever in their younger selves? I don't want Joy Reid to quit because she was once saying something homophobic. She says she isn't now and if that appears true, I don't want her fired, I want one more person on the progressive side. I have changed my mind on a couple of things and would not want to be treated like I hadn't and it made no difference.
Politicub
(12,328 posts)But it doesn’t matter at this point. His baggage will weigh the Democratic Party down, and that’s not something we need as we battle Trump and his hangers-on.
Joy Reid is a media personality. I draw a distinction between an elected official and an employee of MSNBC. But to be honest, I don’t think I would give Northam a pass even if he was an anchor for CNN or whatever and not an elected official. The photo is odious. He was 25. Bless his heart for renouncing his racist ways, but we don’t need him in the dem party.
treestar
(82,383 posts)That's like saying don't bother to see the light.
I was raised Catholic and thus pro-life in college. Maybe I should switch to Republican? You don't need people like me in the Dem party?
How many Dems would be left if that were the standard?
Politicub
(12,328 posts)Pick the party that most represents your values.
But, if you ran for office, and I found out that you donned a KKK hood or put on blackface at age 25, then I would pray that you get primaried.
volstork
(5,837 posts)a million times.
MrScorpio
(73,772 posts)One of personal growth, self-awareness and redemption.
He failed at that... So, as far as I'm concerned, fuck him. All I'd like to have is an assessment of his time in office, so we can figure out what harm he's done as governor.
Virginia can clearly do better.
HipChick
(25,612 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)What harm do you feel that he has done as governor?
MrScorpio
(73,772 posts)I left Virginia 11 years ago and haven't kept up on the state's politics. I pretty much defer to current residents on that.
However, it's clear that his insincere response to the revelation has made him a political liability.
He should step down and let the VA Dems get the state back on track.
Pisces
(6,235 posts)With you. He needs to resign ASAP. I am convinced that there is a pack of shit stirrers on this board that want to cause problems and divide us. It's easy to spot them.
TalenaGor
(1,219 posts)But this one is serious and he needs to resign.
qanda
(10,436 posts)But you did this masterfully. Thank you for your voice. You definitely speak for me.
catbyte
(39,152 posts)Sunday during NFL season, the most egregious being the Washington, DC team whose name refers to the genocide of my people. It never ends as it continues on to baseball and hockey season. The phony drumming and that same stupid, insulting "chant" and that tomahawk chop and the war whoops and feathers and face paint is every bit as hurtful as blackface and a white sheet. Every time that teams and their fans from the Kansas City Chiefs to the Washington DC team to the Cleveland Indians to the Atlanta Braves, to college teams ad nauseum engages in these actions hurts my soul.
So I get it. I just wish that people would get as outraged over that as they are over this because it hurts just as much.
I think Northam should resign because anyone who are thoughtless and oblivious to other people's pain should face consequences for their actions.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Or something ...
I hear you.
lilactime
(658 posts)
njhoneybadger
(3,911 posts)"I've been grappling with this myself." "I've been trying all afternoon and evening to give him the benefit of the doubt but this is a bridge to far."
These are your words. Aren't you disappointed in yourself for grappling with this issue for so long when you of all people knew better?
aikoaiko
(34,214 posts)I haven't posted about Northam, but I will admit that I was leaning toward defending the Democratic gov because it was a long time ago. If "we" forgave Robert Byrd for his dalliance with the actual KKK, a costume at a party seems forgivable. I put we in quotes because I don't know if the African-American base ever forgave him for it.
But those days are long past and we have new criteria that we expect from our representatives in many domains -- not just racial issues. I support the calls for resignation.
I can't imagine wearing blackface or a klan outfit as a costume in the1980s. I knew the klan were monstrous and not a joke. But blackface wasn't even on my radar as a possible costume or offensive.
But I do have a story of cultural insensitivity as a young adult. I lived in northern AZ and was in the hippy biker crowd. I made an apache-style choke and wore it. One day an American Indian confronted me on the street saying that the choker was his. I didn't get it and said that I made it and walked away. When I wore it again, I often thought about what he said and I realized he was speaking about cultural ownership and that I had offended him with my appropriation. I eventually put it away because I realized it was wrong and eventually I put away my patchouli and biker jacket, too. There isn't a picture of me wearing it as far as I know, but I would hope that it wouldn't derail my career if one materialized. I suppose that is for others to decide.
Dopers_Greed
(2,647 posts)We are upset that's now open season on all Democrats to be Roger Stone'd.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)And this isn't about being "Roger Stone'd" This is about us not BEING ROGER STONE.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(130,533 posts)didn't make Northam give a racist photo to his school yearbook. There was no trickery here. Even if you are suggesting that the revelation of the photo was the result of GOP trickery, that doesn't hold water either. Why wouldn't they have done it before the election? And why wasn't Northam properly vetted before he even ran? Nope, this wasn't a dirty trick, and Northam isn't a victim.
treestar
(82,383 posts)It's a matter of what he would do now. He appeared at first to take responsibility. Though since then I've seen he is denying being in the photo. Though it hardly matters if he isn't one of the two people, putting it on his page is the bad thing.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(130,533 posts)in the first place. So Northam's school yearbook (likely student-produced) asked all the about-to-be-graduates for the photos they wanted published, and he gave them some pics that included the photo in question. The fact that apparently nobody on the yearbook staff said, "WTF, man, are you kidding?" and instead they just went ahead and printed it, suggests that this sort of thing wasn't considered especially offensive or inappropriate at that school. It was just a couple of guys in costumes, maybe from a Halloween party; so what? was probably the attitude. OK, it was 35 years ago, but that wasn't that long ago. I should think that a photo of a couple of guys in blackface and a KKK hood should have been off-limits even then, but evidently that school's yearbook staff didn't think so. My point is, there seems to have been an atmosphere of casual racism at that school, and Northam was swimming in it. I don't mean to absolve him of responsibility in any respect - by the age of 25 he sure as hell should have known better, regardless - but it does say something about the attitudes he was surrounded by.
Lucky Luciano
(11,863 posts)
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)It's not up to outsiders, IMO. People who want him ousted should go thru Virginia politicians and government, to get him ousted. Jumping on the bandwagon to oust him is not cool. Go through the proper channels.
It's not my state, so it's not my call. Personally, I'd take him over a Republican any day. Both disgusting, neither choice is good, but at least one follows the Democratic Party platform.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)a 39 year old former assistant US attorney who was on the law review at Columbia University -- who is untainted by any post misbehavior.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Atticus
(15,124 posts)only agree with you, I share your sadness and disappointment that their are so many contrarians who feel compelled to defend this blatant racism with strawmen, waddaboutisms and, in some cases, ignorant word salad. I also agree with your approach of simply refusing to respond to some of the more ridiculous posters. Thank you for your persistence.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)don’t stop. If this country struggled through our worst war and then succeeded in abolishing slavery it can certainly abolish institutionalized racism. It’s the next step and has to happen. It’s people like you who “nevertheless persist” who will make it happen.
The rush to forgive racist actions before all the facts are laid bare is symptomatic of a subtle kind of racism that perhaps a few of those who espouse it aren’t even aware of. Nevertheless it is racism and must be brought into consciousness.
Even a court of law in an attempt to hand out fair justice doesn’t rush to find defendants innocent before all the facts are brought to bear.
Your following on DU is proof you’re making a difference.
MH1
(19,156 posts)I don't think I get to tell an historically oppressed people - African Americans in this case - how they should feel about a situation when egregious symbols of their oppression raise their ugly head. Even when it is going back 35 years ... because as you point out, he never dealt with it in the interim, and it is THAT bad.
I don't think Northam handled it well. Perhaps there was a way he could have handled it, that he could have survived politically (again, IMO that would be up to the AA community, particularly in his state). But he clearly did not handle it well and seems to be making matters worse every time he tries. At this point he needs to sit down with AA leaders, do a REAL apology, and work out the best way for him to leave his current position. Maybe there is something else he can take on to at least begin to atone? But let AA leaders have that discussion with him. Otherwise he should just pick up any shards of his dignity that remain, and go away.
dlk
(13,247 posts)MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)a single homogenous voting block.
There is no such thing in this country. Neither you nor I can speak for the rest of our brothers and sisters, anymore than a woman can speak for all women, a Hispanic can speak for all Hispanics, an LGBTQIA individual can speak for all LGBTQIA folks.
You are blacksplaining to other black folk, and you're rightly getting some push back.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)have been white.
DashOneBravo
(2,679 posts)
greatauntoftriplets
(179,005 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)next LT Governor? That is what will happen with a GOP legislature.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)a message that behavior like Northam's can be excused -- for perceived political advantage.
I'm for taking a chance that we might have a rightwing part-time Lt.. Governor i exchange for having an untainted, black, progressive Governor.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)The Lt. Governor presides over the Senate and has a great deal to do with any legislation that needs to be passed...consider this carefully. I would rather have two Democrats in those positions...imagine a Gop presiding over the Senate. This is foolish...over a 35 year old photo.
AlexSFCA
(6,319 posts)should he resign or not?
doompatrol39
(428 posts)Literally zero difference between the Evangelical Jihadists forgiving Mr. Pussy Grabbing, wife cheating, porn star sexxing Trump simply because he checks off other boxes they like (racism, abortion, etc) and the people on here defending this.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)Lt Governor who would be appointed by the legislature is president of the Senate and oversees legislation.
doompatrol39
(428 posts)We should forgive this because we'll lose out on other things?
RobinA
(10,478 posts)forgiving, it’s about living to fight another day.
doompatrol39
(428 posts)..we should be o.k. with a racist because he'll get us other things we want?
So yeah, pretty much just like the Evangelicals with Trump forgiving everything else he does because he hates brown people and will appoint anti-choice judges.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)He chose to not speak.
Inaction, like action, has consequences.
Iggo
(49,927 posts)People change. I've done it. I have no reason to believe he can't, and probably already has. People will see that and people will forgive him.
But for him to remain as Governor, that convincing needed to happen years ago, because defending yourself is harder than revealing yourself.
He could have said something a long time ago, something real simple like, " This is who I was. It sickens me to see it. But that's not who I am anymore. I worked very hard to become a better man than that. "
But he didn't. He fucked up and it's looking like forgiveness won't save his job. This isn't on us. It's on him.
CTAtheist
(88 posts)Please see my reply in this other thread. It was important to me, so I am linking it here.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211762298
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Interesting.
Pisces
(6,235 posts)Gone!!! Trolls and bots trying to divide us. I wish they would purge these accounts.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)With a Total of SEVEN posts. Welcome To DU....We SEE You....
wryter2000
(47,940 posts)You should be royally pissed. There is no defense for the sort of attitude that produced that picture. His apology rings hollow. Simply covering his ass. He needs to go, as I’m sure he will.
JGug1
(320 posts)The man was 25. Bush spoke of his "youthful"mistakes when he was *FORTY*. The governor isn't the same person he was when he was 25. We crucified Al Franken. We put Kavanaugh into the Court. I AM NOT READY TO COMPEL THIS MAN TO RESIGN. Be as sad as you wish to be over it. I saw the picture. I found it frightening. It was horrible. It was over 30 years ago that it happened. It was a sick joke but that was a different time than now.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Read the board.
Or just read your own post.
Cbarwitz
(28 posts)This feels like a rush to judgment.
Do we know he had racist views from this picture?
If so, do we not allow consideration of a reversal of those views in the 35 years since?
Do we ignore the fact that if a GOP lieutenant governor replaces him, he may well govern with the same racist views the Governor is condemned with having 35 years ago?
I understand the hurt. As a Jew, I would be extraordinarily upset by a picture of a democratic governor dressed up in an SS uniform even if it was 35 years ago.
I think of Prince Harry wearing that swastika. My immediate reaction was that he was anti-semetic. He apologized but I held deep suspicions.
He’s demonstrated to me he’s not. I don’t know why he wore it, but young people do a lot of stupid, insensitive things they later regret.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)He needs to step down. Being governor is not an entitlement or birthright.
And he doesn't need to step down because he thought it was a good idea to parade around like an outright, vicious racist 35 years ago. He needs to step down because a governor of a state who relied heavily on the support of and will have tremendous power over African Americans should have owned up to this behavior before it blew up in his and their faces.
He needs to step down because he deceived his electorate.
He needs to step down because he has demonstrated he doesn't have the common sense or judgment to be in the office he was given.
I'm not assuming anything. I'm forming an opinion based on his current, obvious behavior and his pathetic response to a situation that he brought on himself.
Cbarwitz
(28 posts)Your opinion is based on a 35 year old picture.
It doesn’t mean he’s racist.
He definitely needs to explain it if its him. Given his status, an apology isn’t enough. But I want to give him that opportunity before replacing him with a governor who will likely carry out and/or support Trump racist policies.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)in order to get more union votes.
That didn't PROVE he was racist, either -- just willing to do anything to get elected, even if it was racially insensitive.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/reeks-of-subtle-racism-tensions-after-black-candidate-left-off-fliers-in-virginia/2017/10/18/de74c47a-b425-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html?utm_term=.52927a7348fe
Virginia Democratic gubernatorial hopeful Ralph Northam omitted any mention of Justin Fairfax, the party's African American candidate for lieutenant governor, from about a thousand pieces of campaign literature, which Fairfax called a "mistake." The incident has stoked tensions within the Democratic ticket, threatening to alienate African American voters three weeks before Election Day.
The palm cards with photos of Northam and Attorney General Mark R. Herring (D) were produced for canvassers with the Laborers' International Union of North America (LIUNA), which asked that Fairfax be excluded because it did not endorse him. Fairfax has spoken critically of two proposed natural gas pipelines that the union supports.
SNIP
Phillip Thompson, president of the Loudoun County NAACP, said the exclusion of Fairfax from literature reinforces a perception that the Democratic Party sees him as an outsider and is taking the black vote for granted.
"A lot of us feel the Virginia Democratic Party has never been a very inclusive group, and they always kind of marginalize African Americans without providing any grounds for advancement," said Thompson. "Hillary [Clinton] won the state of Virginia because of the African American, Hispanic and minority vote. . . . Justin is a perfect person to help them do that again, and they still don't support him."
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Iggo
(49,927 posts)Last edited Sat Feb 2, 2019, 05:06 PM - Edit history (1)
Does that help you?
He’s lost credibility with his backtracking. As I said, he needs to be transparent and explain himself, or else resign.
I was earlier mistaken about the lieutenant governor being Republican. Yes, that he’s a democrat makes a difference to me given the heinous, sociopathic nature of the GOP.
Iggo
(49,927 posts)Um...yes.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Remember when we couldn't assume racist views based solely on what people said because we didn't have any proof they actually engaged in racist behavior?
Good times.
Cbarwitz
(28 posts)Again, I go back to Prince Harry. He wore a Nazi costume. Was he, or is he now, a Nazi or a supporter of Nazi views? I have no reason to believe that.
Iggo
(49,927 posts)A British royal? One of the primest of prime examples of a beneficiary of white supremacy as exists on this planet?
Dude.
Cbarwitz
(28 posts)That’s it
Iggo
(49,927 posts)Do you even hear yourself? 
When did “white supremacists” start marrying black women and have black children?
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Iggo
(49,927 posts)My beef ain't with Harry, his gorgeous wife, and his future brood.
My beef is with racist apologists using Harry as an excuse.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But whatever...we're generally on the same page.
Cbarwitz
(28 posts)I’m not a racist and its not an apology. You’re irrationally flying off the handle and attacking fellow democrats for rationally examining this issue. Is the governor a racist? That’s the issue, isn’t it?
I got the same reaction when I thought a routine congressional investigation of Al Franken’s conduct was called for.
I guess asking for due process and investigation of whether a sexual assault even occurred in Franken’s case made me a sexual assault apologist too?
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)With TEN Posts. See a Pattern Here?
Welcome To DU...as We Are Wondering Why The Legend of Ralph Northam and His Exposed Racism -- Are The First Set Of Posts You Comment On At DU!!! 
#ThingsThatMakeOneGoUmmUmm
Gothmog
(179,868 posts)I think that resignation is the only real option available
whathehell
(30,468 posts)in medical school. He's accountable.
malaise
(296,103 posts)He too is a medical doctor - he pointed out that the one profession where you know we are all the same is medicine. He says this is unforgivable.
redstatebluegirl
(12,827 posts)I have been embarrassed by some of the posts on DU the past couple of days. We can't lower ourselves to their level, I refuse to let this kind of racism stand whether it is a Democrat, Republican or Independent.
DonCoquixote
(13,960 posts)will people stop trying to gaslight borwn and black voters because it is an inconvenience for you?
H2O Man
(79,052 posts)It's an ugly situation, that's for sure. Although it was 35 years ago, and a person can change in less time than that, it is important to remember that he was 25 …..and the human brain is mature at that point. So he cannot claim the "stupid kid" defense, which in and of itself would be highly debatable.
More, it was 1984. Hence, the "you have to put it into context" of his surroundings, etc, seems shaky, at very best. At 25, people know the difference between right and wrong.
As an individual, he may well believe -- and correctly so -- that he is a different person today. But this isn't really limited to him as an individual. It is about the Democratic Party at a time when we all need to be, and do, our best.
man4allcats
(4,026 posts)would be defending and making excuses for this guy if he had an R behind his name instead of a D.
Thank you for posting, EffieBlack.
billh58
(6,655 posts)MLAA
(19,745 posts)Clash City Rocker
(3,546 posts)First, he didn’t come clean about it himself. Someone exposed him, and then he waffled as to whether that was him in the photo or not.
Second, his apology was pathetic. It was a canned speech, and he didn’t come across as apologetic.
The ideal situation would be a vote of confidence - let the voters who elected him decide if he should stay or go, as they do in some countries. But I don’t think we have a mechanism for doing that.
oldlibdem
(330 posts)He said it's not him. So how long before faux news rounds up his classmates and puts them on tv to say it is him? Bye Governor, Just consider it a life lesson learned and try to impart to future generations that this blantly racist behavior is unacceptable in America.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)I don't think so.
RobinA
(10,478 posts)They were told that he didn’t do anything wrong and his accuser was a nut.
AdamGG
(1,882 posts)In the press conference, one of the reporters asked Northam, since he'd participated in a Michael Jackson dance contest in 1984, if he could still do the moonwalk today. Northam turned his head and looked at the floor next to him to see if there was enough space for it, started to get in position, and then his wife touched his arm and said that it wouldn't be appropriate in this situation.
For a second there I was really rooting for that moonwalk, just to see one of the most epicly tone deaf viral video moments in press conference history.
Northam could have chosen to resign today with some dignity and speak frankly about the environment he grew up in and how he has evolved as a person and how it's important for society to continue to evolve. Now, he's just another politician lying to save his neck with desperate, pathetic attempts at damage control. But, his wife did manage to save him from becoming a viral video for the ages.
whopis01
(3,919 posts)Demanding that he step down isn’t about trying to punish him. He is not what is important here.
It is about the office of the Governor and government in general. It will become all about him and this scandal unless he steps back and away from it.
I don’t know if the man is a racist or not. Or if he was at one point and isn’t now. He maybe a good man who did something stupid a long time ago. But that doesn’t matter. What matters is that he can no longer effectively govern a portion of his constituency.
There are a lot of people in Virginia. No one will convince me that you can’t find someone who is an effective governed that hasn’t appeared in blackface or klan robes.
hueymahl
(2,904 posts)Reminds me of what happened to Al Franken.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)And respecting the views of black people is NOT a circular firing squad.
hueymahl
(2,904 posts)I respect your views and other black peoples views, especially on racial matters.
We are still shooting one of our own. Just like we shot Al Franken. Many women made the same arguments you are making.
And I am not saying he should not resign. But it feels to me like a bit of a rush to justice, just like it felt with Franken.
AdamGG
(1,882 posts)The photo was taken with Tweeden's phone because it was a prank. Franken wasn't actually touching her, he was pretending to touch her. Tweeden was a Playboy centerfold whose role on the USO tour was to joke with sexual innuendo, as Playboy bunnies had done on USO tours for many decades. Within a day of the prank photo that Franken took, Tweeden posed for another photo where she was grabbing a male musician's ass on stage. Franken's prank photo was within the context of the environment that Tweeden was mutually participating in.
That's not at all tbe same as posing in blackface, standing next to someone wearing Klan robes. They're entirely different situations and in this case, we should fire on one of our own and replace him with his Lt. Governor as quickly as possible to remove focus from this and keep it fully on Trump.
hueymahl
(2,904 posts)A lot of people jumped to conclusions with Franken also. By the time sober voices could be heard, it was too late.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Was not pictured in Blackface or a KKK Costume. Thank You.....Next....
hueymahl
(2,904 posts)Don’t you think?
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)No, not at all. We Are Talking About Two Different Individuals -- with to VASTLY different incidents or can you not figure that out for yourself?
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)Why didn't this come out during his campaign. This is a distraction and people are falling for it. The people of Virginia elected him, and they should decide on his tenure.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)And Want Him Outta There. As In The Ones That Voted For Him About Knowing About His Affiliations w/ KKK Costumes, Blackface and a nickname of "Coonman".
Next....
PeeJ52
(1,588 posts)next
oberliner
(58,724 posts)
madaboutharry
(42,033 posts)There isn’t enough empathy in our world.
And Democrats also need to put country before party.
lovemydogs
(575 posts)I remember where I was in 1984. I would never have condoned this kind of thing.
I grew up knowing that the word N***** was bad because my mother told us so. And that accepting people for themselves and not for the color of skin or religion, ect. was wrong.
We also grew up in the 70s when accepting people for themselves in my area was the thing.
By the 80s I thought society had moved forward.
Silly me
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)I'm sure you got a lot of people thinking.
Response to EffieBlack (Original post)
Post removed
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)But perhaps it's helpful that you provide a real-life example of exactly what Effie is talking about.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)What SHE Said....
JCanete
(5,272 posts)"
This is about a man who seemed to believe that, despite that history, he could just move on and do whatever he wanted with his life and never address it, comment on it, own up to it, explain it or apologize for it. Or, even worse, did he think it really wasn't all that bad, so if it did happen to come out, he'd just deal with it then?
Either way, he hasn't done the work needed to earn forgiveness. Letting something slide for 35 years and then, when it comes out through no effort on his own, to simply say on the very day it's revealed "Whoops! My bad! Can you forgive me?" is not enough. Not by a longshot. "
I can forgive most anything. People can entirely change. Past actions are typically predicated on ignorance and misunderstanding, even if that ignorance is as violent as not seeing the humanity of fellow human beings. Granted, I hold a certain place of privilege that makes that easy for me to do, but I still believe people should be given the space to evolve...its not healthy for us as a society to force people into the box of their past. We should encourage and welcome them to evolve....
but as you say, that evolution requires acknowledgement....some personal ownership of your past actions. Nobody has to wallow in self-guilt nor inflict self- flagellation, in my opinion, because that energy does nothing positive in the world, but recognition of past actions that caused harm seems like the best indicator of actually having changed.
That said, we're talking politics. There's almost never forgiveness when it comes to politics.
Response to EffieBlack (Original post)
USALiberal This message was self-deleted by its author.
DemocratSinceBirth
(101,852 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 3, 2019, 10:16 AM - Edit history (1)
See the story I posted from Newsweek where TRUMP, the grand Wizard of the GOP is screaming racism and saying what Northam did was 'unforgivable'!
He damn well better step down NOW or he is actively working for the damn GOP, IMO!!!!!
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)essme
(1,207 posts)to see that folks here cannot see that people change.
I listened to what that man said yesterday. I heard him.
For the record, I am 55 years old and a Southerner.
CHANGE is good. WHY are some folks here so opposed to the fact that people can grow and change.
If you cannot change, then you need to see a therapist to treat you for arrested development.
DonCoquixote
(13,960 posts)and peoplecannot reprent from somethign they LIE about doing. If he wants to change, he needs to be HONEST and do the work of gettign frogiveness from the people he hurt.
Mosby
(19,491 posts)essme
(1,207 posts)I am a librarian in a Title I school. I LIVE what you are complaining about 5 days a week.
I am 55 years old.
People grow up and change.
Why can't you celebrate that?
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)A question: Why did Northam lie about it?
Yes, he may have changed, but his story has also changed.
essme
(1,207 posts)because he was/ is embarrassed to death. Any reasonable person would be.
Look, I hate what he did. As I wrote, I work in a school where I see the effects of institutional/ societal racism every single day. I just told my husband that I think I need to be treated for depression-
But, I believe he changed--- and god knows, he needed to. The people I hate are the Kavanaughs of the world- the ones that harmed people, and just.. don't care.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)And I accept his word that he changed.
sellitman
(11,745 posts)I'm saddened by so many people. Worse yet, by people here.
Gothmog
(179,868 posts)The OP was very effective. You can tell the Effie is a lawyer
retread
(3,922 posts)The yelping here is getting rather loud isn't it?
