Do we demand all these people resign ? Whats the answer?

[Rustyeye77]

Ralph Northam
Justin Fairfax
Mark Herring
Elizabeth Warren

[Rustyeye77]

1. I wont and cant call out one person in particular ( he knows who he is)

but those who DEMANDED NORTHAM's resignation should speak up.



fyi
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211767167

[delisen]

2. Do not rush to judgment. Get the facts. Say "no" to manipulation.

A strategy of zero tolerance and rush to judgment developed to convince the public that there is a clear difference between the two major parties is backfiring.

Those who developed the strategy underestimated how easily such a strategy is manipulated by the another party and even within the Democratic Party.

[Baltimike]

35. THIS!!! They are running GAME on us and using moral absolutism to divide and conquer.

I fell for it at first.

I am wide awake now.

[bdamomma]

3. too bad we

couldn't say if Northam goes so should Kavanaugh.

[Rustyeye77]

4. We purified our party with Al Frankin

( shameful)

I nominate we really cleanse our party by getting rid of Kirsten Gellibrand

Anti choice
A rating from Gun Lobby
Ran off Franken

Just my $ 0.02

[dalton99a]

29. Yeah, Doug Jones beat Roy Moore because we got rid of Franken

And then we won the midterms because we got rid of Franken.

Victory belongs to the saintly and pure-hearted

[Empowerer]

5. Yes and no

Ralph Northam - Yes
Justin Fairfax - No
Mark Herring - No
Elizabeth Warren - No

[ConnorMarc]

10. Basically...

What he said.

[Rustyeye77]

11. I respectfully disagree

You should try to be consistent.

#me too movement wont be too happy
American Indian movement is not too happy.

[Empowerer]

17. I am being consistent

Northam's wrongdoing has been proven and admitted. The allegation against Fairfax hasn't even been publicly made, much less corroborated no one should be run out of office based on a mare accusation of this sort. If more evidence comes out attempting to support accusation that's a different situation.but that's not the case right now.

I strongly support the #MeToo movement. But I also strongly support the right of people not to be railroaded based purely on an accusation. the #MeToo movement is not about believing all women in every instance regardless of the circumstances. It's about respecting and listening to women and taking their claims of sexual harassment and assault seriously.

Fairfax's accuser should have an opportunity to present her allegation, have it taken seriously and fairly considered. He should have the opportunity to refute that allegation, once made. So far, none of that has happened so insisting that he be punished 4and taking their claims seriouslybehavior that hasn't even been publicly alleged is premature.

[theboss]

25. It's public now.

So, I guess we're all going to be judging this now based on...what?

[Empowerer]

27. Yes, I just read her statement

It's very disturbing. I'm looks by forward to see his response.

[theboss]

28. That's out as well

So, she said he forced her. He says he didn't.

She says she started talking about it in 2017. I guess we can check that fact.

Then what?

[democratisphere]

6. I'm sure if we keep this up every one of the candidates will be gone

and no one else will dare throw their hat in the ring. redumbliCON mission accomplished.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

7. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, and what isnt happening - is for people to just own their mistakes in a

Last edited Wed Feb 6, 2019, 06:30 PM - Edit history (2)

forthright way. Use the media attention to inform and educate - tell us what they learned and why it shouldnt have happened, and what they have done to make amends.

Beto O did a good job of modeling how this can be done.

Everyones done stupid things - the question is, what would you have done differently and what do you do in the present to make it better?

Dont deny deny deny, and then offer some lame half arsed apology. "Im sorry if it offended anyone."

Ralph N - explain to us why on earth blackface is such a big thing in VA (this white person wants to know) and explain why it is so offensive to people now ( ie give history of blackface and how carcicatures portrayed black people as less than human and how it was used systematically to keep them in their place)

Accused of date rape? Even this could be a teachable moment if handled right. Tell us how you got your signals confused and in the past the awareness wasnt as great, and if you had it to do over again youd get a clear "yes" and consent from your partner.

THEN MOVE ON. Dont keep rehashing.

Yeah there are things that are completely unforgiveable, and which would require a "time out" from being in a political role..... at least until person can redeem themselves and prove theyve changed. But the things you listed I think are things that could be addressed and resolved by someone with good communication skills and sincerity.

[LAS14]

8. In Virginia they declare the chaos and Republican takeover....

... that would result, if investigations proved all allegations true, would not be worth the benefit of holding the 3 accountable. Sexual misconduct and racism are egregiously bad, but they don't outweigh EVERYTHING else. You have to look at the circumstances.

As for Warren, I posted elsewhere that I first had this thought when a Republican was under the gun. If a person's decades old misconduct is not followed by a pattern of misconduct, then we should not try to apply punishment at the level of firing someone.

[theboss]

15. Holding people accountable is always the right move

I'm sorry.

You do the right thing and live with the consequences. Period.

I would like to register the 8 million Texans who are not registered. And I would like them to vote Democrat.

My pitch can't be, "My party is the party that is not racist, unless being not racist is terribly inconvenient."

[LAS14]

22. See we hold someone accountable for a single offense so that...

...the Republicans take over the VA executive branch. Life is more complex than maybe we'd like it to be.

[theboss]

23. Do we all get one free rape? One free act of racism?

What are we doing here?

[LAS14]

31. Rape, no. Racism???? So you're saying neither you nor anyone...

... you know has done anything racist? Well, we know that's not true. It's the old debate. Is the world black and white or is it nuanced?

[theboss]

34. What is the nuance in black face?

There is saying something racist by ignorance or drunkenness or anger.....and then there is RACIST!!!!!

[LAS14]

42. It's the trade off with the consequences, not the midconduct, that's nuanced. nt

[theboss]

43. So we have 0 tolerance for racism unless it hurts us politically

In which case, we grin and bear it.

Not exactly a profile in courage there.

Is anyone thinking of the electoral consequences down the road of leaving two shithead racists in office in a state that may still be in the "purple" category?

[treestar]

67. Not presently racist

You allow for no reform; why do you want those voters? Some of them might have been racist or other wrong in the past.

[LanternWaste]

9. I'd imagine the answer is to look at each individually, objectively, on on their own merits.

Rather than pretending everything that's not X is Y... which gets a D- for the inference fallacy in any secondary school algebra test.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. +1

[Rustyeye77]

16. I know some people who would give you an argument about that.

nt

[MustLoveBeagles]

45. This sounds reasonable

[treestar]

64. Yes. Like stop claiming that hesitation on whether Northam should resign is

"defending blackface." Instead of weighing the situation on both sides, misrepresent what one side is arguing. Oh the shock of DUers actually defending blackface. Except nobody did that.

Weigh:

the effect of giving Rs more power
the extent of the offense
how long ago it was
how long ago they did it
what the person's positions are now and what they will vote for now

[leftynyc]

12. That's for their constituents to decide

but none of those 4 should be seeing higher office.

[theboss]

13. Fairfax, I give more time. Warren is a known quantity, but she shouldn't seek the presidency

Amos n Andy can take a walk.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. Well

Ralph Northam -Yes- His putting on blackface and they lying about it compounds the original offense.
Justin Fairfax -TBD- We need to hear both sides
Mark Herring _TBD. His lack of dissembling inures to his benefit
Elizabeth Warren- No. But she shouldn't be president.

[Rustyeye77]

20. OK

nt

[dalton99a]

19. No Democrat should resign or be forced to resign their position unless

and until convicted of a crime

Use the GOP standard.

[Rustyeye77]

21. I agree

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211767167

[theboss]

24. So if Farifax admits that he raped her, but it's outside the statute of limitations, he stays

We good with that?

[BannonsLiver]

49. I'm hoping you'll keep us in line.

Since you’ve apparently appointed yourself as DU’s arbiter of ethics and morality, that’s part of your duty. Be best.

[Trumpocalypse]

26. Shouldn't we have a higher standard ?

We need to be better than republicans.

[PoliticAverse]

55. Did youj miss the Ertel resignation?...

Florida Secretary of State Michael Ertel has resigned after photos of him emerged in blackface drag.

Michael Ertel was appointed as Secretary of State on January 8 by the state’s new Republican Governor Ron DeSantis.

However, the official has resigned after just 16 days in office, after the Tallahassee Democrat newspaper obtained photos of him at a Halloween party in 2005 dressed as an African-American woman.

In the photos published by the newspaper, Ertel is wearing a T-shirt with “Katrina victim” written on it, just months after the 2005 hurricane which devastated much of Florida and killed 1,833 people across the US.

From: https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/01/25/florida-republican-michael-ertel-blackface-drag/

[LiberalLovinLug]

30. I think there is a deep rooted cause of our PC trigger finger

Back in the day, Republicans were actual conservatives. They actually, for the most part, were traditional Christians, who actually lived conservative lives, with one wife, a family, and believed in fiscal responsibility, and punishing crime. And any hint of sexual deviance was quickly snuffed out, even in their own party....especially in their own party.

So..if something like that happened in OUR party, all hell broke lose, or maybe God's wrath. Bill Clinton was pillared by the last gasps of the GOPs righteous indignation they could claim back then.

But things are so different now. Especially after "I just grab em by the p****" and the many crude, sexist, racist comments since by the Republican President. And the non response from GOP leaders.

We don't HAVE to bend over backwards in the morality race anymore. We don't have to over-prove ourselves anymore. We can ride out some of these charges, especially the circumstantial and past incidents. We are stuck in the past where we fear the wrath of God's party reading the Bible to us about our mortal souls. Those days are over. The GOP has no moral authority anymore.

[bitterross]

32. Apparently, yes. We're the party of no forgiveness and intolerance.

We've become the party of intolerance. Intolerance for mistakes made. Doesn't matter. 30 years, 40 years. Doesn't matter if you were an immature kid then and since then have become a responsible adult and ally. Doesn't matter if you've changed and started protecting the very people you mocked.

Nope, we can't forgive anyone. We must punish each and every one as if they were responsible for ALL of the oppression and heinous acts of all of society. We must have our pound of flesh.

All the while the other side laughs and laughs and laughs at us tearing ourselves apart over the distant past rather than us trying to be real progressives and make some progress in this freaking century.

[brooklynite]

33. I wasn't aware that Elizabeth Warren had done anything that warranted her stepping down...

Stepping up to be President may be another matter.

[DBoon]

36. Many of these are targets of Republican operatives

turn it around ans attack the source

Expose the nazis at Big League Politics, go after their motives and methods. Paint them as the criminals they are

[Poiuyt]

37. No one should resign until Trump does

I'm tired of all the hypocrisy.

[dalton99a]

41. +1. And Chris Collins, Duncan Hunter, Steve King, Gym Jordan, et al

[redstatebluegirl]

38. They don't play by the same rules we do our King would be gone.

Now they are insisting we remove anyone who has been accused of anything. Yes, I think we should lead by example, but not when we are being used to put right wing autocrats in control.

[Baltimike]

39. OMG...your last sentence sums it up perfectly. nt

[marble falls]

57. We need to be careful about that, situational ethics is not a good look for us as we try ...

to beat back unethical RWers.

[NotAPuppet]

40. I've said from the beginning that

Northam’s shouldn’t resign because of a 36 year old picture. We don’t even know if it was Northam or why the picture was there in the first place. People change. I know people who have changed and who are not the person they were many years ago. What Northam needs to do is hire some better people around him because his press conference was a mess.

The situation would be different if Northam had taken any discriminatory action against a black person or another minority, and my response would have been different as well.

Fairfax and his accuser are he said/she said from what I know so far. He shouldn’t have to resign because of a single allegation. Again, that’s considering my current knowledge about his situation.

And I’ve said from the beginning that Republicans would find something on Herring, which they did. Because that’s their M.O.

Northam and Herring are not people whose policies will harm African Americans, but any Republican replacement will.

[Rustyeye77]

50. Tyson told everyone at the time.

It appears Fairfax engaged in ILLEGAL sexual assault.


Thats the one who should resign.

[NotAPuppet]

52. Tyson did not tell anyone until 2017.

“Tyson said she did not speak of the incident for years but told close friends in Virginia about it when she learned of Fairfax's 2017 campaign”.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/virginia-lt-gov-justin-fairfax-s-accuser-details-sexual-assault-n968496

[Garrett78]

44. Northam: resignation. Fairfax: investigation. We shouldn't lump them all together.

[Rustyeye77]

46. Well, based on some people's desires for...

Getting rid of Dems who have shown racisM, homophobia, lying, and cheating Dino's...at anytime in their life...we now have

Ralph Northam
Justin Fairfax
Mark Herring
Elizabeth Warren
Kirsten Gellibrand
Tulsi Gabbard

Here's an idea

Let's learn to show Forgiveness

[ecstatic]

47. Bernie Sanders wrote some scandalous material before running for Congress,

Beto had a DUI, and Biden plagiarized. I guess we'll know what's OK next March.

[Takket]

48. answers

Northam yes, he had a chance and actually made it worse with his press conference

Fairfax no... not yet. We only have an accusation made and a few statements. Expecting people to give up their entire career the moment an accusation is made is an absurd standard. They both deserve some sort of investigation/hearing. She supposedly talked to friends, he supposedly talked to her........ there are pieces to the puzzle that can filled in.

Herring... probably not...... he said he did it once. how old was he? how did he feel afterwards? did he relish the experience or feel dirtied by it? Was he pressured by friends into doing it even though he didn't want to? Those are questions I'd liked answered.

Warren: No.

[4139]

51. What is best for the Party.... Northam resign, the other only if additional things come out

[somaticexperiencing]

53. The absolute need for Democrats to win.

It is crucial, especially in this place and time, that Democrats and what Democrats generally stand for, WIN.

It is crucial, at the same time, that we remain true to the principles we most love. This includes a profound respect for diversity and the circumstances of all those oppressed.

In this profound fight, however, it seems to me we need to keep in mind:
1. We cannot judge actions or attitudes from years before by the standards of today. That simply cannot be entirely fair. We all were raised a certain way, and we all have done stupid things.
2. Democrats cannot win consistently if they continue to "eat their own", especially while Republicans just shrug and go about their evil business, including the ratfucking behind many of these controversies.
3. Practical winning includes having a reasonable measure of acceptance that none of us are perfect, none of us are beyond controversy. I mean none of us, and I say this most emphatically to those who are throwing the most stones.
4. Yes, in my experience, winning and in fact survival itself includes putting up with some shit that is far from perfect and in some cases plain wrong.

There is an absolute need right now for Democrats to win, to win strongly, and to right so many things that are being skewed wrong. To do this, we must stand together as very best we can. To support growth in each other, but to remain consistently united against a much more malicious foe.

Please don't let ratfucking exposures of personal failing of this or that sort turn us all against each other, while the Republicans surely grin at how easy it all is.

Oh, and don't forget, they are probably being given lessons from the masters of soft propaganda all the time - the Russians, who have been perfecting this for years.

[link:|

[marble falls]

58. "The absolute need to win" got us Watergate, GWB and Donald J. Trump.

[somaticexperiencing]

63. And the absolute need to be pure leads us to no leaders.

I can only tell you what I'm doing. I'm a Democrat for decades, and I believe our representatives, duly elected, deserve at least an equal and fair shake, the benefit of the doubt, and certainly do not "have to" resign unless what they did is illegal. They can be voted out at any time.

As a result, I am calling my representatives and Democratic leadership and telling them we must be very careful about how we eradicate our own duly elected members for the sake of a moral purity that none of us have.

As I recall, the people of Minnesota did not want Franken out, our Democratic members essentially forced him out. And I'm sure the Republicans were thrilled at the effects of what seems to have been a Roger Stone-originated event.

I wonder how he would have done against Kavanaugh? Could he have been as effective as he was with Sessions - questions that led him to recuse himself?

[gopiscrap]

73. welcome to DU

[doompatrol39]

54. I just wish people would stop trying to spin this stuff..

..if your position is that we should overlook wrongdoing and things like racism if someone is a Democrat and ONLY if they are a Democrat then just say this. At least be honest and straight up about it.

If people are saying we should be just like Evangelicals and ignore almost every other tenet of our morality and our positions and beliefs as Democrats simply because a Republican would be worse and because of the other things we'll get if we don't hold Dems accountable then just say that.

Then we can debate whether that is right or wrong and what's at stake and which particular Democratic voting blocks we are prepared to throw under the bus and dismissed based on what other groups get what they want.

But this spinning about how it's different from Republican hypocrisy that we've all been near constantly railing against or how it's all some big conspiracy or how our demands that Republicans hold their people accountable were somehow different or more valid, or whatever other BS people are peddling on here is literally and completely laughable in every possible way.

[somaticexperiencing]

56. So if Republicans did what those in VA did you would ask them to resign?

I haven't seen that.

I haven't seen any Republicans accused of same, and I'm sure that if these guys did it in that day and age, so did Republicans.

And if you did ask for their resignation, do you think Republicans would? Surely you do not believe that.

We're not bringing knives to a gunfight, we're killing our own people before a fight even begins.

Yes, I do think this is wrong and misguided. We will be left with nobody to fight our fight. FDR, John Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson - these at least would all be out of the history books.

[marble falls]

59. Sooo our leaders are special so they get free passes?

[doompatrol39]

61. I would ask Republicans to resign, without even hesitation.

Trent Lott was forced to resign and many on here called for that resignation, simply because he said "If Strom Thurmond had won his presidential election we wouldn't have a lot of the problems we do today." and that was something that a lot of people had to have explained to them why what he said was wrong.

And as for what Republicans at the time were doing.....let's not forget that Northam himself was a Republican at the time.

[treestar]

66. Who said we should overlook it?

Why does the person always have to be run out of office over it? Are there no lesser punishments? Especially when it hurts out own policies and the chance of getting them through.

[somaticexperiencing]

70. Absolutely agree. Far too easy to use our own absolutism against us.

[uponit7771]

71. What if it ... IS ... factually different?! I'm sick of the overt false equivalencies

[wasupaloopa]

60. Is there such a thing as forgiving people any more?

I don’t belong to the off with their head movement.

[doompatrol39]

62. I honestly have no problem with how the AG handled the issue...

..he admitted it, it didn't have to come out from Republicans, he apologized and he gave what seemed to me like a fairly contrite statement about it, and nothing else in his history leads me to disbelieve him. I have absolutely zero problem taking him on faith.

Northam handled it poorly, didn't seem contrite in the least bit, and also has a pretty spotty history on race beyond this, AND was a Republican until fairly recently. So is it possible? It definitely is. But for me personally, the Governor in this case doesn't really fall under that umbrella of forgiveness.

And Fairfax I'll go with innocent until proven guilty.

[wasupaloopa]

69. Everything is your mine and their perceptions. We don't hang people on perceptions.

The right wants to get rid of our leaders one at a time. None of them are perfect. All have done something in the past that can be found out with opposition research.

We comply with the right by expecting resignations for past wrong doings. We do not look at the person today. We do not investigate. We do not forgive. It is doing what the right wants.


It is wrong to be complicit with the right. They would stop if we would.

[LAS14]

65. Not every crime deserves the death penalty. We need to ....

...learn to denounce bad behavior in a variety of ways. I wish we'd learned this lesson before we lost Al Franken.

[Charlotte Little]

68. Ralph Northam

Should go.

Fairfax should not until more facts surface. Herring should not go unless something else surfaces.

Warren shouldn't even be on this list.

[peggysue2]

72. x1000!

And Liz Warren? Really.

I guess we want to grab a shovel, join the Republicans and start burying everyone.

Stop it, please.

[MrGrieves]

74. Ine of these things is not like the other ones...