Thu Feb 7, 2019, 10:20 AM

Can the Democratic Party disapprove of something/someone and also not give up power?

Handing the leadership of a state over the GOP does a lot more harm to the cause of oppressed people in that state than acknowledging some flaw in the human(s) that represent the party. We aren't likely to find a lot of people without mistakes or flaws.

Could we, for example, officially rebuke or sanction them? Pledge not to support them in the next primary? Have them really meet and talk with representatives of the groups they have wronged? Demand a full investigation? Demand that the person involved step down but retain the power of the successful election, so as not to shaft all of the voters who came out for Democrats?

I'll say it again - Democrats would rather be beyond reproach than in power. And Republicans would _much_ rather be in power than be beyond reproach.

Giving up power doesn't always mean that we value the people harmed - especially if it leads to more harm. Blackface and KKK costumes definitely cross _way_ over lines. But is the result that we have to empower the VA GOP?

The position seems to be "well, you got us. Our politician is a flawed human being. Therefore we are going to throw away all of the work, money, and time spent getting them elected. And be sure to vote for Democrats next time, it's totally worth it."

138 replies, 8405 views

Thread info Bookmark this thread Trash this thread

Reply to this thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum

Replies to this discussion thread

138 replies	Author	Time	Post
Can the Democratic Party disapprove of something/someone and also not give up power? (Original post)	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	OP
Exactly	LongtimeAZDem	Feb 2019	#1
Right?	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#3
Hell, professor, it was last week!	Texin	Feb 2019	#41
good point, sadly	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#52
+1	EveHammond13	Feb 2019	#76
I'm just not a fan of hypocrisy	HopeAgain	Feb 2019	#2
Neither am I. When you find a political system that allows for the drafting of perfect candidates	LongtimeAZDem	Feb 2019	#6
So that goes for Republicans too?	HopeAgain	Feb 2019	#13
Actually, yes. But, again, this is not about candidates for cannonization.	LongtimeAZDem	Feb 2019	#20
Rs are much more savvy about strategy, while "good guys finish last" Dems keep getting trampled on	EveHammond13	Feb 2019	#78
Asking that our candidates have no history of overt racism or misogyny is not asking for perfection.	LanternWaste	Feb 2019	#123
i agree, for the most part	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#129
Did the OP suggest that we should be hypocrites? There have been times...	LAS14	Feb 2019	#7
Funny, I never saw a post like that	HopeAgain	Feb 2019	#15
I refrain from posting anything to suggest that Republicans...	LAS14	Feb 2019	#21
THIS!	LongtimeAZDem	Feb 2019	#53
Thanks! Glad to hear from you!!	LAS14	Feb 2019	#65
if the alternative is to richly reward a group of ultra-hypocritical ratfuckers	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#8
Ratfuckers who specialize in whataboutism	HopeAgain	Feb 2019	#16
Hypocrisy isn't taking a sledge hammer to fruit flies. There's wisdom in moderation	uponit7771	Feb 2019	#9
Moderation or	HopeAgain	Feb 2019	#17
Moderation here would be an investigation by the DNC like Ellison. White privilege wouldn't exist	uponit7771	Feb 2019	#19
Investigation by the Party?	HopeAgain	Feb 2019	#24
all of the minorities in VA you would hand into the tender mercies of the GOP	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#27
That's crap	HopeAgain	Feb 2019	#28
"we are going to become just as bad" - evidence for that?	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#31
Not to 100% perfection	treestar	Feb 2019	#92
Balcony.	idahoblue	Feb 2019	#127
These are arguments for political expediency	HopeAgain	Feb 2019	#132
We're handing over the minorities to the GOP?	theboss	Feb 2019	#45
I know, right?	HopeAgain	Feb 2019	#133
Of course it's harder to be principled but principled doesn't mean taking a sledge hammer to fruit	uponit7771	Feb 2019	#32
+1	EveHammond13	Feb 2019	#80
Nancy has no business meddling in a state government issue. nt	MadDAsHell	Feb 2019	#138
that's an interesting way to frame it	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#25
White male privilege	HopeAgain	Feb 2019	#37
Again, all of the black people in VA who would get hosed because of this	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#38
Like I said	HopeAgain	Feb 2019	#39
And by the time we accomplish that change, my daughter will be facing a world in which	LongtimeAZDem	Feb 2019	#56
Hopefully	HopeAgain	Feb 2019	#58
You don't get it; McCarthyist purity witch-hunts never stop with the bad cases	LongtimeAZDem	Feb 2019	#62
Why does the consequence always have to be lose the office?	treestar	Feb 2019	#94
You've hit it. Lesser consequences. That's what I'm saying	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#96
It is a matter of how it is handled.....	doompatrol39	Feb 2019	#4
I agree, the governor really handled it badly.	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#10
His press conference was the very definition of cringeworthy	rpannier	Feb 2019	#44
Byrd is a perfect example	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#12
Absolutely!!! Very well stated. And we'd better start doing it! Loss of job for any ...	LAS14	Feb 2019	#5
+1. Why must the penalty be death for every offense?	dalton99a	Feb 2019	#11
"zero tolerance"?	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#33
Proportional to the "crime"? Nt	spooky3	Feb 2019	#98
This message was self-deleted by its author	NCChomskyan	Feb 2019	#14
No we can't. Social media has conditioned us otherwise	jberryhill	Feb 2019	#18
Excellent useful term, "outrage amplification." Did you come up with it? nt	LAS14	Feb 2019	#22
I dunno	jberryhill	Feb 2019	#49
I believe the Fairfax accuser	Johnny2X2X	Feb 2019	#23
For me, it's the opposite, I believe him, not her	CTAtheist	Feb 2019	#137
It looks to me like that might be exactly what is happening.	Skinner	Feb 2019	#26
I'm actually surprised he has held out this long.	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#29
It's not as if it requires any effort	jberryhill	Feb 2019	#50
I agree	awesomerwb1	Feb 2019	#30
I've been avoiding having any opinion of the Virginia situation	In It to Win It	Feb 2019	#34
A slight hypocrisy compared to the	treestar	Feb 2019	#99
Agreed. However, I don't think their hypocrisy justifies our hypocrisy.	In It to Win It	Feb 2019	#107
It's got to be weighed	treestar	Feb 2019	#112
A big difference that I think has been overlooked	spooky3	Feb 2019	#101
I think it has been proven that students chose the pictures for their page	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#108
Where is this proof? I have not seen any re:Northam. Thx.	spooky3	Feb 2019	#110
I'll dig it up - supposedly the editor of the yearbook described the process	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#113
here's one story on it	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#114
Thank you; I had not seen the comments	spooky3	Feb 2019	#118
sure, republicans do that regularly to hold power	bigtree	Feb 2019	#35
your attitude takes a huge dump on the will of the voters	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#36
your 'attitude' immediately disregards that constituency	bigtree	Feb 2019	#42
I'm fine with having a better/perfect person inhabit a Democratic governorship in VA	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#51
that would be a consequence of the pols behavior	bigtree	Feb 2019	#57
imagine you are a VA voter, and you have to vote between two white guys	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#67
all I see is a whitewash	bigtree	Feb 2019	#73
What breeds true cynicism in politics	DirtEdonE	Feb 2019	#46
keeping bad people in our party in power won't change the republican party	bigtree	Feb 2019	#47
Neither will defenestrating every Democratic politician who has ever made a bad decision	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#54
we seem to have held up so far to the values people are demanding in Va. out of the elected Dems	bigtree	Feb 2019	#61
Have we?	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#64
either you think our party is morally compromised or not	bigtree	Feb 2019	#68
uh, no. I'm saying you don't know how flawed they are or not	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#79
If he is currently voting as a non-racist	treestar	Feb 2019	#102
'voting as a non-racist'	bigtree	Feb 2019	#109
What has he done in the past year?	treestar	Feb 2019	#111
lol	bigtree	Feb 2019	#115
what?	treestar	Feb 2019	#116
I'm not interested in discussing this with you	bigtree	Feb 2019	#117
Handing power over to the TRULY evil pubicans	DirtEdonE	Feb 2019	#59
that would be a consequence of these pols' behaviors	bigtree	Feb 2019	#63
It's not "cold"!	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#66
This is exactly how pootin and trump stole the last election	DirtEdonE	Feb 2019	#69
nonsense	bigtree	Feb 2019	#71
It had to do with divide and conquer	DirtEdonE	Feb 2019	#93
you have to make your own determination about what's important to you	bigtree	Feb 2019	#106
Thanks for the advice	DirtEdonE	Feb 2019	#120
you jumped into the middle of this discussion	bigtree	Feb 2019	#121
So did everyone else	DirtEdonE	Feb 2019	#122
'my capitalist underpants?'	bigtree	Feb 2019	#124
yeah, thanks again	DirtEdonE	Feb 2019	#126
cause and effect	bigtree	Feb 2019	#70
Ok then, find me some non-flawed politicians and I'll get right on it	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#75
amazing how concerns are reduced to political calculations	bigtree	Feb 2019	#81
uh. Duh. Political calculations are rather important	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#86
and you must wonder why those policies don't get implemented	bigtree	Feb 2019	#91
Was Northam implementing the New Jim Crow in VA or something?	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#95
Northam has an issue with truthfulness	bigtree	Feb 2019	#105
+1	DirtEdonE	Feb 2019	#97
There's always a balance	treestar	Feb 2019	#103
What are their current positions on the issues?	treestar	Feb 2019	#100
I do believe it is time	DirtEdonE	Feb 2019	#40
I agree	ZeroSomeBrains	Feb 2019	#43
It's up to Virginia and the voters there.	Honeycombe8	Feb 2019	#48
Which politicians did more than "express an opinion"?	brooklynite	Feb 2019	#55
You can thank the advent of social media for that.	defacto7	Feb 2019	#77
Thank you. One of the things that bothered me about the	spooky3	Feb 2019	#119
medicaid expansion was huge and it took northham to do it	questionseverything	Feb 2019	#128
this. nt	Baltimike	Feb 2019	#60
Nailed it. "Democrats would rather be beyond reproach than in power."	EveHammond13	Feb 2019	#72
What needs to happen? Tom Perez needs to declare an approach - a fighting approach? I say yes.	EveHammond13	Feb 2019	#74
Well said. yeah, I worry that that kind of waste in pursuit of purity	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#83
I fully agree.	EveHammond13	Feb 2019	#85
Walk AND chew gum? Are you mad?	jberryhill	Feb 2019	#82
lol	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#89
LOL! nt	Honeycombe8	Feb 2019	#136
Yes! There has to be some other way to punish them!	treestar	Feb 2019	#84
Yes it can, or should.	shanny	Feb 2019	#87
well said.	ProfessorPlum	Feb 2019	#90
+1	LongtimeAZDem	Feb 2019	#104
I would not be surprised if the Dems just let the GOP have the state even with Gerrymandering discus	lancelyons	Feb 2019	#88
IMO this can be pretty much boiled down to	DirtEdonE	Feb 2019	#125
I trust the Democrats are digging into Kirk Cox's past	dflprincess	Feb 2019	#130
There's ratfucking, hard core racism, then there's	Duppers	Feb 2019	#131
Bill Clinton was a flawed person too	TheRealNorth	Feb 2019	#134
+1. nt	Honeycombe8	Feb 2019	#135

Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2019, 10:29 AM

LongtimeAZDem (4,494 posts)

1. Exactly

If we're uncomfortable with a Democrat who might be racist, what is to be gained by handing the office over to the Republicans?

Politics is not, sadly, a place for the pure.

Can the Democratic Party disapprove of something/someone and also not give up power?

1. Exactly

3. Right?

41. Hell, professor, it was last week!

52. good point, sadly

76. +1

2. I'm just not a fan of hypocrisy

6. Neither am I. When you find a political system that allows for the drafting of perfect candidates

13. So that goes for Republicans too?

20. Actually, yes. But, again, this is not about candidates for cannonization.

78. Rs are much more savvy about strategy, while "good guys finish last" Dems keep getting trampled on

123. Asking that our candidates have no history of overt racism or misogyny is not asking for perfection.

129. i agree, for the most part

7. Did the OP suggest that we should be hypocrites? There have been times...

15. Funny, I never saw a post like that

21. I refrain from posting anything to suggest that Republicans...

53. THIS!

65. Thanks! Glad to hear from you!!

8. if the alternative is to richly reward a group of ultra-hypocritical ratfuckers

16. Ratfuckers who specialize in whataboutism

9. Hypocrisy isn't taking a sledge hammer to fruit flies. There's wisdom in moderation

17. Moderation or

19. Moderation here would be an investigation by the DNC like Ellison. White privilege wouldn't exist

24. Investigation by the Party?

27. all of the minorities in VA you would hand into the tender mercies of the GOP

28. That's crap

31. "we are going to become just as bad" - evidence for that?

92. Not to 100% perfection

127. Balcony.

132. These are arguments for political expediency

45. We're handing over the minorities to the GOP?

133. I know, right?

32. Of course it's harder to be principled but principled doesn't mean taking a sledge hammer to fruit

80. +1

138. Nancy has no business meddling in a state government issue. nt

25. that's an interesting way to frame it

37. White male privilege

38. Again, all of the black people in VA who would get hosed because of this

39. Like I said

56. And by the time we accomplish that change, my daughter will be facing a world in which

58. Hopefully

62. You don't get it; McCarthyist purity witch-hunts never stop with the bad cases

94. Why does the consequence always have to be lose the office?

96. You've hit it. Lesser consequences. That's what I'm saying

4. It is a matter of how it is handled.....

10. I agree, the governor really handled it badly.

44. His press conference was the very definition of cringeworthy

12. Byrd is a perfect example

5. Absolutely!!! Very well stated. And we'd better start doing it! Loss of job for any ...

11. +1. Why must the penalty be death for every offense?

33. "zero tolerance"?

98. Proportional to the "crime"? Nt

18. No we can't. Social media has conditioned us otherwise

22. Excellent useful term, "outrage amplification." Did you come up with it? nt

49. I dunno

23. I believe the Fairfax accuser

137. For me, it's the opposite, I believe him, not her

26. It looks to me like that might be exactly what is happening.

29. I'm actually surprised he has held out this long.

50. It's not as if it requires any effort

30. I agree

34. I've been avoiding having any opinion of the Virginia situation

99. A slight hypocrisy compared to the

107. Agreed. However, I don't think their hypocrisy justifies our hypocrisy.

112. It's got to be weighed

101. A big difference that I think has been overlooked

108. I think it has been proven that students chose the pictures for their page

110. Where is this proof? I have not seen any re:Northam. Thx.

113. I'll dig it up - supposedly the editor of the yearbook described the process

114. here's one story on it

118. Thank you; I had not seen the comments

35. sure, republicans do that regularly to hold power

36. your attitude takes a huge dump on the will of the voters

42. your 'attitude' immediately disregards that constituency

51. I'm fine with having a better/perfect person inhabit a Democratic governorship in VA

57. that would be a consequence of the pols behavior

67. imagine you are a VA voter, and you have to vote between two white guys

73. all I see is a whitewash

46. What breeds true cynicism in politics

47. keeping bad people in our party in power won't change the republican party