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MineralMan

(146,284 posts)
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:07 PM Feb 2019

The Whole Virginia Mess Is Very Disappointing.

It's a scandal for Democrats. I don't know what's going to end up happening. I don't live there. I'm done with it, though, and will wait to see what the results end up being. I can't do anything about it, but I'm very disappointed by everyone involved. I suppose there will be an investigation and some elected officials will have to resign.

We really need to do better, I think, at selecting our candidates during the Primary races. Maybe we should be looking at folks who weren't frat boys and good old boys. I know that's a traditional path into politics, but the shenanigans that too often surround those young guys seems to be getting in the way.

Here's what I think. Let's look more closely at the women who run for such offices. Maybe they'll be less likely to have "sown their wild oats" too vigorously as young men. Maybe they won't have the baggage of a freewheeling college boy with more testosterone than brains. That's what I'm thinking.

As a party, we don't need this crap. It gets badly in the way of the story we're trying to tell.

Let's elect more women, please, and fewer overgrown boys, shall we?

That's what we've been doing in Minnesota. Both of our US Senators are women, as is my district's House representative. I've campaigned for all of them. No scandals there.

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The Whole Virginia Mess Is Very Disappointing. (Original Post) MineralMan Feb 2019 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author Renew Deal Feb 2019 #1
No, not a Kim Davis type. She's openly a terrible person. MineralMan Feb 2019 #2
All due respect, MM, I think the point is that having an XX chromosome pair is no panacea ... mr_lebowski Feb 2019 #5
Nor should we automatically assume that a (D) after someone's name MineralMan Feb 2019 #9
I agree. Benevolent sexism is still sexism. I agree spooky3 Feb 2019 #12
I know you didn't mean her Renew Deal Feb 2019 #7
Look at where she was elected, please. MineralMan Feb 2019 #10
It's not about you Renew Deal Feb 2019 #14
If it's not about me, don't make it about me, please. MineralMan Feb 2019 #18
I deleted it since you found it personally insulting Renew Deal Feb 2019 #20
I'm finished trying to figure it out also Awsi Dooger Feb 2019 #3
I'm going to leave that all to the Virginians to sort out. MineralMan Feb 2019 #4
There should an investigation MINIMUM and DNC on state levels should enact some level of consequence uponit7771 Feb 2019 #6
I don't care how many oats young men (or, GASP, young women) sow. demmiblue Feb 2019 #8
I was using that as a euphemism. MineralMan Feb 2019 #11
Why anyone is surprised at these behaviors is a question ismnotwasm Feb 2019 #13
Yes, I think change is coming, and just in the nick of time. MineralMan Feb 2019 #16
Yeah, the whole thing is mind-blowing . . . peggysue2 Feb 2019 #15
We need more women officeholders, but radius777 Feb 2019 #17
Whether those people in Virginia leave or survive this, MineralMan Feb 2019 #19
I think VA Democratic Party and assembly members will handle it, and Hortensis Feb 2019 #21

Response to MineralMan (Original post)

MineralMan

(146,284 posts)
2. No, not a Kim Davis type. She's openly a terrible person.
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:14 PM
Feb 2019

Just awful. Who would vote for her? Clearly, that is not what I mean, in any way. I'm talking about Democratic candidates who stand for the values Democrats hold dear, but who don't have nasty little-boy rapey or racist behavior in their past.

But you knew that, didn't you? You knew I wasn't talking about Kim Davis or her like.

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
5. All due respect, MM, I think the point is that having an XX chromosome pair is no panacea ...
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:24 PM
Feb 2019

I like your idea, don't get me wrong ... but there's also still plenty of well-qualified male candidates for office that aren't overgrown frat boys.

Though I say that stipulating to your point that it's LESS likely a given female has been embroiled (or can be embroiled) in some scandal involving misconduct (esp. sexual) than a given male candidate. At this point, definitely worth considering.

But ... we shouldn't rule out males just based on gender and potential buried scandals, that's not right either.

MineralMan

(146,284 posts)
9. Nor should we automatically assume that a (D) after someone's name
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:36 PM
Feb 2019

means that person is a life-long decent person.

I've been around politics and elections since 1960. I can't tell you how many times I have cringed over something I learned about a Democratic candidate. There was a state assembly candidate in California who was forever trying to feel up young women who were trying to help him win an election. He was a "great guy," a lot of people said. "Full of charm." A "winner." I dropped off his campaign team and supported the woman who did win.

Here's the thing: a lot of men who seek political office were BMOCs in college, leaders of their fraternities, and then became leaders in their local Rotary or Kiwanis clubs before their first run for office. All of those things are or were groups of "hail fellow, well met" men. I've been around them all my life. Mostly, I don't like them. They'll snicker at the dirty jokes, laugh at a story with racial overtones, and so forth. But, they're popular among their peers and end up running for office.

Mostly, that other side of their personalities isn't exhibited except among their male peer group. But, it's there.

I haven't seen the same from the Democratic women in politics I have known. Not at all. Perhaps that's why I've gravitated toward helping women candidates more often than men.

There are wonderful men in politics, too, but you just don't know. Unless you're closely associated with them, you don't know how they are in their private lives. I hate being embarrassed by someone I have supported.

spooky3

(34,430 posts)
12. I agree. Benevolent sexism is still sexism. I agree
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:40 PM
Feb 2019

With MM and everyone else who says we should look closely at selection processes and make sure they are not excluding qualified women—as many did in the past. And we should work hard to be inclusive and to get people involved.

And unfortunately, Sen. Klobuchar is current involved in controversy about her office management. No one is immune.

Renew Deal

(81,852 posts)
7. I know you didn't mean her
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:27 PM
Feb 2019

But she was (is?) elected as a Democrat.

It can be argued that at election time Northam easily fit your criteria other than being a guy.

MineralMan

(146,284 posts)
10. Look at where she was elected, please.
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:39 PM
Feb 2019

She was who she is all along. I'd never have voted for her. Ever. But, I choose to live somewhere other than that political hellhole of a state. I could not survive there.

You know I didn't mean her, but you're the one who brought her up. What's that about? You're not unfamiliar with me. But, you tried a very weak ploy to start an argument. Once again, I'm disappointed.

Think about it, won't you?

As for Northam, I do not live in Virginia. I do not follow Virginia elections. I do not vote in Virginia.

Renew Deal

(81,852 posts)
14. It's not about you
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:43 PM
Feb 2019

It’s about the discussion. We can’t broadly state that we should vote for women and hope for the best. The risk is lower, etc. By all fair measurements Northam was a good choice. No one knew about the yearbook. A lot of Democrats were really excited about him.

MineralMan

(146,284 posts)
18. If it's not about me, don't make it about me, please.
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:54 PM
Feb 2019

The example you used was insulting. It wasn't even close to what I meant. You knew that, yet you put it out there.

I try very hard to be polite on DU, even when I strongly disagree with someone. I would not do something like that to make a point.

It was about me. It was a slur, in a way. Clearly, I could never support anyone like Kim Davis. Anyone who is in the least way familiar with me would know that, and I know you're familiar with me.

I'd encourage you to think longer about your approach to discussion. Using extreme examples that do not even come close to applying to the discussion is not the way to encourage discussion, in my opinion.

We often disagree on some issues. I recognize that. But, please try to refrain from using rank insults to counter something I have written. Thanks.

Renew Deal

(81,852 posts)
20. I deleted it since you found it personally insulting
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 05:00 PM
Feb 2019

And out of respect for old peers on DU. But seriously, it’s a rhetorical point, not a personal attack.

 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
3. I'm finished trying to figure it out also
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:21 PM
Feb 2019

Too many variables and moving parts. I'm more comfortable applying one big picture theme. That seemed obvious early...that Northam should resign.

Now I have no idea, given Fairfax and all the particulars of Virginia succession.

MineralMan

(146,284 posts)
4. I'm going to leave that all to the Virginians to sort out.
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:22 PM
Feb 2019

Really. It's sure embarrassing, though. We should do better, I believe.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
6. There should an investigation MINIMUM and DNC on state levels should enact some level of consequence
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:26 PM
Feb 2019

... for past transgressions other than giving up office to supports of a child abusing racist like Benedict Donald.

demmiblue

(36,838 posts)
8. I don't care how many oats young men (or, GASP, young women) sow.
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:28 PM
Feb 2019

Just be honest and respectful to/with your sexual partners.

MineralMan

(146,284 posts)
11. I was using that as a euphemism.
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:40 PM
Feb 2019

I agree completely with you. Yes. Honest and respectful with both your sexual partners and everyone else, too. That's the bare minimum of my expectations.

ismnotwasm

(41,975 posts)
13. Why anyone is surprised at these behaviors is a question
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:43 PM
Feb 2019

Feminists and Civil rights activists have been shouting into the wind apparently. We need more women to provide balance in representation. And yes, men have been in charge for millennia, it’s time to change this.

I have two awesome female senators, an incredible female rep, a great male Governor (Inslee) and a great male AG. A new Female Mayor (who is gay) after the scandal of the last male one. (Also Gay) The racial mix is mostly white, with Pramila Jayapal being a women of color.

I like the balance, would like to see a little more racial diversity, but we are moving in the right direction. We are getting better at lessening the impact of homophobia and transphobia (For instance the hospital were I work upon admission will now ask you what your preferred gender pronoun is)

All these social justice warrior issues are near and dear to my heart. I believe to have a healthy society we need to eradicate the way the white race came to dominate societal norms, as well as the way males have dominion over politics and science and set societal standards.

We are in times of great change.

MineralMan

(146,284 posts)
16. Yes, I think change is coming, and just in the nick of time.
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:49 PM
Feb 2019

The traditional route for becoming a political candidate is networking with peer groups. For decades, those peer groups have been primarily male. From college fraternities to later service organizations and business societies, that networking is how male candidates get their start, in most cases.

I remember when Rotary and Kiwanis were male-only organizations. They resisted women as members for a very long time. Why? Because they were misogynists at heart, at least to some degree.

Introducing diversity into our legislative and political environment isn't just a good idea. It has become essential. We must do it, or we'll continue along the same patriarchal past we've been on historically.

The recent election proved that women aren't just flukes as political candidates. Minority and women candidates no longer have to sit back an accept a poorer chance at getting elected.

I'm sick and tired of living in a patriarchal society. I want a completely balanced mix of leaders and legislators. It's long past time.

peggysue2

(10,828 posts)
15. Yeah, the whole thing is mind-blowing . . .
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:46 PM
Feb 2019

and disappointing. And, of course, you're quite right--it taints our entire message. That being said I think this Virginian debacle will require that candidates agree to a deep vetting exercise, opposition research on their own lives and past. Particularly on racial and sexual matters. Otherwise, the Democratic narrative will be drowned out by the noise of ugly, unexpected revelations.

More women? I'm down for that.

radius777

(3,635 posts)
17. We need more women officeholders, but
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:52 PM
Feb 2019

the idea that a woman can't be taken out in a similar way, is IMO naive. (you're from Minnesota, there are already "anonymous" reports attempting to paint Klobuchar as an office bully, and some calling for her to resign or drop out of the presidential race.)

Hillary was accused of being an enabler, and all types of things for many years, without evidence.

We set a terrible precedent when someone can just point a finger and damn that person without a chance for defense of their reputation, without any type of investigation. It feels more like the Salem Witch Trials than an America based upon due process (which is not just a legal precept but an ethical and moral value woven into the fabric of America).

I disagreed with the Kavanaugh circus for this reason. I thought it happened too long ago and the evidence too flimsly to keep him off the court. A more thorough investigation should have been done, but the GOP derailed that. We need a bipartisan mechanism for these things.

What I wonder about cases like Kavanaugh, Franken, Fairfax - is why these accusers suddenly came out when the politician was elevated (or about to be elevated) to a high profile.

MineralMan

(146,284 posts)
19. Whether those people in Virginia leave or survive this,
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 04:59 PM
Feb 2019

they have still embarrassed the Democratic Party. I'm tired of such scandals. I want to prevent them from occurring in the future. I want Democrats to win office who are free of stupid behavior that smacks of racism, sexism or anything else that brings negative attention to the Democratic Party.

Enough of that, already. We just need to do a better job of selecting our candidates. We need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot like this.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
21. I think VA Democratic Party and assembly members will handle it, and
Sat Feb 9, 2019, 05:07 PM
Feb 2019

the state will settle back to something like normalcy and national attention will move on.

Perhaps southern Democrats especially should elect more women for a while. As someone pointed out, college fraternities are famous breeding grounds for future leaders and we can expect more of these revelations, far more damaging to Democrats than to Republicans of course.

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