Did and Did Not

[Stinky The Clown]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Yonnie3 (a host of the General Discussion forum).

This is going to be my one and only Bernie Sanders thread. He is NOT a Democrat and never has been. That has worked for him but, honestly, not for Democrats. He is, in my view, a self absorbed demagogue. So let's look at some facts:

He DID profess to be a Democrat ONLY when it suited HIM.

. . . but . . .

He DID NOT actually become a Democrat

He DID NOT leave the primary soon enough to allow time for wounds to heal and for HRC to benefit from his supporters.

He DID NOT release his tax returns.

He DID NOT give loud, clear, and unequivocal support to HRC when she needed it most.

He DID NOT, as we found out later, support and protect his own female staffers.

He DID NOT engage POC on a basis equal to that with which he engaged white people in general and upper middle class white people in particular.

He DID NOT wave off support from what appeared to be Russians even as it was clear the GOP guy was getting the same.

I have no interest in debating any of this. They are my own beliefs. I have no use for Sanders. I wish he would just go away. In my view, he is poisonous to Democrats. I have had the words "bernie" and "sanders" on my trash word list since MF45 was sworn in, in large measure because of Sanders. I will watch this thread, for whatever that's worth, and refresh those same words.

Like Colbert's bears, Bernie is dead to me and he knows why.




By the way, and for the record, Bernie is NOT a Democrat and not subject the protections on DU that accrue to REAL Democrats.

[stonecutter357]

1. K&R

[honest.abe]

2. Well stated.

Thanks for posting.

[Lordquinton]

3. Factually incorrect on many points

but the last one specifically.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

8. Yep. Can't even get that one right. Lol

[Jakes Progress]

48. Confused by our fun pix.

You apparently find Bernie to be a good thing. But your fun pix appear to have Bernie rolling around pitching one of his fits.

Please clarify.

[uponit7771]

13. Can you name 3 points and why? thx in advance, wanting to be objective

[Lordquinton]

98. Off the top of my head

He did support Clinton unequivocally, and like everything else he does loudly. His supporters did support Clinton in sufficient numbers (ie: in a greater percentage than Clinton's supporters voted for Obama I '97) and Sanders is supported and protected on this site, check the rules.

[uponit7771]

106. For the first one I think its the timing that was mentioned not the amplitude of Sanders support...

... I agree on the second 2.

[calimary]

37. Nope.

[Jakes Progress]

49. Name two please.

And the last one is correct. As of this afternoon, Bernie is still not a Democrat.

[Lordquinton]

100. Last one is incorrect

As of this afternoon Sanders is still protected in DU's rules. He did support Clinton after the primary was over, unequivocally and like everything he does loudly.

[Jakes Progress]

118. Your recollection of his "unequivocal" support does not

match what really happened and what most saw as Bernie hedging his base and making sure that he didn't praise Hillary too much so that he could use his tried and true campaign message that Democrats are as bad as republicans.

You said you said the OP was wrong on "many" accounts. You are wrong that Bernie loudly supported Hillary. And if Bernie is protected by DU rules, why is this thread not locked?

I'm sorry that Bernie plays the game of pretending to be a Democrat sometimes. But he isn't. He has had many opportunities to become a productive part of the party, but he prefers the angry old man schtick that has worked for him for so many years.

[Lordquinton]

127. I get it, you hate Sanders

No matter what he does or did it will never qualify as enough, so I'm not going to continue an argument about it.

It's also a fact that he is protected here on DU. If you have an issue with that take it up with the administrators. I'm also not continuing down that road cause interfering with forum moderation is also against the rules, which you should probably brush up on cause you seem to be deficient in them

[BannonsLiver]

123. "Unequivocally"

[Lordquinton]

128. I know what it means

And he did.

But nothing he does will ever be good enough, so I'm not going to continue his conversation.

[sagesnow]

4. I have to agree.

Sanders and Shultz running will nearly gaurantee a Trump win by splitting the vote between left leaning liberals and centrist liberals. We will have to kiss American democracy good bye if that does happen, imho.

[Whiskeytide]

5. I think Bernie was reluctant to fully ...

... embrace Hillary after the convention because he felt it might dilute his base to some extent. That was probably a correct assessment. His base had adopted an anti-establishment position and Hillary was the establishment. Some of his supporters (young and perhaps a little naive, felt it was not cool to join her after opposing her.

I suspect he - like many - took it for granted that she would defeat trump easily. So, he supported her, but I think it’s fair to say it was not a full throated call to rally to her. He was trying to walk a thin line. It was a calculated risk and it blew up in his face.

And it has damaged him for 2020. I know many Dems who might have supported him in the 2016 primary who are now firmly against him. I don’t know a single person who supported Hillary in the primary who might throw in with him this time. I think that means his run for 2020 is futile. He either doesn’t realize this, or he’s running for reasons other than actually prevailing. (And I’m not suggesting that such reasons might be nefarious - many candidates run to promote their platform and move the party, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing).

I generally like Bernie. And I can’t think of a single policy position he promotes that I disagree with in principal. But he is, unfortunately, uniquely positioned to muck things up to some extent. And his supporters are also uniquely vulnerable to manipulation from outside interests. For those reasons, I wish he wouldn’t run.

[CaptainTruth]

29. "I know many Dems who might have supported him in the 2016 primary who are now firmly against him."

You can count me in that group.

[Fuzzpope]

55. Same here.

[we can do it]

109. Same here.

[MH1]

113. Yes, me also. nt.

[CentralMass]

33. Analysis published by the WAPO showed that Sander primary voters voted for Hillary by a 2:1 margin

in the general over Hillary voters in 2008 who voted for Senator Obama. Depending on which of the two studies cited either 94% or 88% of Sanders voters voted for Hillary vs (from nemory) vs 76% of Hillary voters who voted for Senator Obama in 2008. The study also said that the Sanders tRump voters were never going to vote for Hillary to begin, concluding that they were not Democrats.

So I dispute your assertion that Sanders tanked Hillary. I would argue that he engaged and brought many Democrats into the process who ended up voting for the nominee (Hillary) .

[Jakes Progress]

46. From memory

is not a good way to do this. Your memory is clouded. If you do the numbers the way you "remember" Obama would not have been elected.

Such are the vagaries of popularity contests.

[CentralMass]

63. Here is the link to the WAPO article that I was referencing.

I generally have a very good memory for stats.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/?utm_term=.b83b2802fa90

"Another useful comparison is to 2008, when the question was whether Clinton supporters would vote for Barack Obama or John McCain (R-Ariz.) Based on data from the 2008 Cooperative Campaign Analysis Project, a YouGov survey that also interviewed respondents multiple times during the campaign, 24 percent of people who supported Clinton in the primary as of March 2008 then reported voting for McCain in the general election."

100% -24% = 76%

[Jakes Progress]

71. Your memory for stats is flawed if you don't know what the numbers mean.

The article, one I remember, mentions three surveys including a Rand study about Bernie voters and Hillary. It discusses one survey from the 2008 election, a CCAP study. Please read the whole article and don't just cherry pick a few numbers. Particularly look at how the surveys population samples were identified and what analysis was used including how they eliminated outlier numbers.

The WAPO article itself knows the numbers are useless. You pulled one paragraph to support your headline. (More about that in a minute.) Here is what the article says about the study you reference.

"But again, attach a lot of caveats to that analysis."

About the numbers used, the article itself says:

"There is no way to know whether 12 percent or 6 percent or some other estimate is The Truth, and there are enough differences among these surveys that we cannot easily pinpoint why the numbers differ. So we should take these estimates with some caution."

Did you read the article and its caveats or did you just grab a paragraph to justify something that most know is erroneous?

And about that headline. What the hell did you mean by "2:1"? In your mind is 88% twice 76%?

Hey. You get to think Bernie is America's savior, but it would be good of you to not pull numbers at random and misuse them. I supported Bernie in the early part of his bid, but quickly came to see that he did this kind of thing a lot. His numbers never added up. I loved what he said he stood for. I came to doubt him and his motives. I believe I have been proven right in that doubt.

[CentralMass]

81. Sorry that was a hastily drafted cellphone post during a work break.

Let me quantify it a bit better. More of Sanders supporters, either 88% or 94% voted for Hillary depending on which study you want to use after Bernie lost the primary in 2016 then did Hillary voters who voted for Senator Obama after Hillary lost (76%). Trying to keep it a apples to apples as possible I cited the Yougov studies that were taken in 2008 and in 2016 as mentioned in the article.

Sanders voters in 2016 (Yougov)

"First, the political scientist Brian Schaffner analyzed the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, which was conducted by YouGov and interviewed 64,600 Americans in October-November 2016. In that survey, Schaffner found that 12 percent of people who voted in the primary and reported voting for Sanders also voted in November and reported voting for Trump."

Hillary voter in 2008 (Yougov)

"Another useful comparison is to 2008, when the question was whether Clinton supporters would vote for Barack Obama or John McCain (R-Ariz.) Based on data from the 2008 Cooperative Campaign Analysis Project, a YouGov survey that also interviewed respondents multiple times during the campaign, 24 percent of people who supported Clinton in the primary as of March 2008 then reported voting for McCain in the general election."

So according to those two Yougov analysis, by a 2:1 margin, more Hillary voters in 2008, by a 2:1 margin (24% vs 12%) voted for McCain after Hillary lost then did Sanders voters who voted for tRump rather the Hillary in 2016 after Sanders lost.

The other poll put the number of Sanders voters who voted for tRump at 6%. That would change the numbers above to a 4:1 ratio berween Sander-tRump voters vs Hillary-McCain voters.

[Jakes Progress]

94. I see that you are trying.

But your showing a naive reliance on numbers that, were they accurate, might possibly support your thesis. Even the source you used, The Washington Post, itself said those numbers were dubious, that they were to be taken with a grain of salt, that no conclusion could be drawn from such disparate sources. The sampling method was completely different on both studies you reference, making any conclusions worthless. Were you to be in a research field, you would know that two studies conducted eight years apart, by two different entities, using completely different sampling methods and elimination methods could not be used to support any proposition. That's the kind of conclusions made by pharma and advertising media to dupe consumers.

Please, have all the faith in an idol that you want. Blindly follow their meanderings and rail against anyone who questions them. That is your right. But don't try to use statistics that you don't really get to try to prove your point. Would you really buy this kind of slap dash analysis if it were to say the opposite - that Bernie voters were less supportive? Because if you would, I know I could spend a few dozen minutes on the internet and find someone who would say that. Would that cause you to drop your support for Bernie? If not, then what was the reasoning behind your post?

[CentralMass]

95. Well i belive the conclusions of those studies. I supported Hillary in 2008.

I remember the PUMA (Party Unity My @$$) movement. It is revisionist history to ignore how nasty of a primary that was. Diehard Hillary supporters are an unmovable object

[Catch2.2]

115. Agreed

I was a Bernie Supporter who voted for Hilary. TBH, I don't know one Bernie supporter who didn't.

[Jakes Progress]

119. Disagree.

I started as a Bernie supporter and then caught on to him. I supported Hillary beginning in January. I know a dozen Bernie supporters who either did not vote or voted green.

[Jakes Progress]

116. Of course you do.

Did you support Hillary in 2016?

[Whiskeytide]

59. I didn't say he tanked her. My post is ...

... my thoughts on how past events might impact 2020. I agree that Bernie engaged a lot of new - mostly young - voters. That was a good thing. And many certainly did follow through and vote for the candidate in the general. I’ve seen those articles.

But at least some of Bernie’s appeal was that he was an “outsider”, and that he somehow represented a revolution against conventional politics.

I think his base is pretty entrenched in that mindset now. They will be even less likely to vote with the party this time around if he again doesn’t win the nomination. And, because many Dems in the party DO hold him at least partially responsible for trump, his presence in the primary will be even more contentious.

And that’s really my point. Because of 2016, and the perceptions of the two sides (right or wrong), the primary will be a bloodbath where Bernie is concerned. That plays quite well into Russian/republican trolling, which will amplify the carnage. That’s going to create deep bruising that won’t heal quickly. And all of that only benefits trump and republicans.

We are going to need the blue wave to dislodged the asshole in the White House and the republican minions elsewhere in government (natl, state and local). ANYTHING that tamps down the wave is risky and foolish, in my opinion. Bernie is going to run. I get that. The ever growing anti-trump sentiment is perceived as a great opportunity - kind of an “it’s now or never” play for a lot of candidates - perhaps especially Bernie.

But I think it’s folly for him. I don’t think he will come nearly as close to winning the nominations as he did in 2016 - precisely BECAUSE of what happened or what is believed by many to have happened in 2016. Yet, along the way he’ll do some damage. I don’t want damage. Too much is at stake.

Edited typo.

[world wide wally]

124. Only 2-1?

That sucks!

[Catch2.2]

114. Another Bernie bashing thread

How about more Pro Kamala or Warren threads instead?

[Cha]

132. Just Vetting his past history..

so we Don't Repeat it.

[niyad]

6. and he says women's bodily autonomy is a negotiable issue.

[calimary]

39. AND one of his early essays for $50 a pop REALLY stayed with me.

It was the one that postulated that when a woman has sex, she’s really fantasizing about being gang-raped by three men at once.

I don’t care if he WAS joking! That one stung. And STILL stings to this very moment. I’ll NEVER EVER forget that one.

[niyad]

43. I had not heard about his rape essay until earlier today, had no idea what was in it,

and now I am sickened.

[java108]

7. Cool story.

One Sanders thread down, five dozen to go...

[SammyWinstonJack]

40. Ha.

[Cha]

85. Better than "Cool" it's Reality.

[murielm99]

9. K&R

[iluvtennis]

10. Well said, Stinky The Clown. nt

[jalan48]

11. But we need his supporters votes in the general election.

Don’t forget that part.

[NotHardly]

14. Bernie's supporters got mad and voted for Trump ... you know, they could not fathom...

a woman being president, so they preferred Trump. And now, he and his are back again as yet another spoiled sport move like Schultz-confeffee

[SammyWinstonJack]

44. NotHardly. Bernie supporter here who voted for Hillary.

[Jakes Progress]

51. The tricky bit

is how many "undecideds" did you influence with Hillary bashing during the primaries. In local canvassing, I kept coming across people who were going to vote against Hillary because of someone at their place of work who they thought of as aware who kept trashing her. They almost always ended the story with "And he's a Democrat."

[CentralMass]

68. See post 33.

[Cha]

86. Why do you think there would be a problem?

[jalan48]

88. You tell people to go away often enough they just might do it.

[Cha]

90. Nobody's telling them to go away.. if

someone wants to take their ball and go home that's on them.

What's more important.. feelings or shutting down fascism?

[jalan48]

93. I agree about Fascism but then we've been dealing with this since the 80's. Reagan and Bush Sr.

were awful, Jr. and Cheney were much worse (torture) and now we have someone even worse than them. What's next?
I don't think anyone is going to take their ball and go home but we need to continue to build coalitions between the different groups in our Party.

[bluescribbler]

12. I won't vote for him.

There are too many GOOD DEMOCRATS running this time. I haven't yet decided which to support, but I will be supporting a real Democrat.

[leftieNanner]

15. 100% Agree

And I would add that he is too old to be president. Before anybody yells at me that I am an ageist, I'm only a little bit younger than Bernie is and I know that I'm not as sharp as I used to be - couldn't in any way handle the pressures of that job.

My concern is that the "Bernie or Bust" people that I know on FB are now insisting that they will only vote for him AGAIN and if anyone else is the nominee, they will refuse to vote or go find another Jill Stein. I choose not to engage with this one guy in particular because he's kind of a lunatic. He posted all the "Killery" Russian crap in 2016. If Bernie is soundly defeated (can't accuse DWS of shenanigans this time) then hopefully some of them will realize that their choices could put Trump in office again. SMH

[DoctorJoJo]

16. Couldn't Have Said It Any Better!

[louis c]

17. Agree. Rec and Kick

Exactly how I feel

[charlyvi]

18. Judging from the comments I've read over at TPM, Steve Benen's posts

at Rachel Maddow's blog, Daily Kos (!), Balloon Juice and here, I don't think he stands a chance. Good. I just hope he limits his damage this time, but I doubt he will.

[Jakes Progress]

52. But wait until the russian money and bots start in.

[charlyvi]

54. True.

Russia might shift its focus from Tulsi to Sanders; or, elect to push support for both of them. With such a large field, even a small propaganda outlay could reap outsized benefits.

[Jakes Progress]

70. It worked in 2016.

All it takes is gullible people.

[Quayblue]

89. They already have.

The Bat Signal has been activated.

[Cha]

67. I know what you mean, charlyvi..

[Andy823]

19. I agree 100%

Could not have said it better!

[Traildogbob]

20. Stop the infighting

let the primaries run their course and decide the one that is best for our country. We have much more to be furious over than our next presidential possibilities. Just remember this: Rick Perry, Ben Carson, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, Rand Paul, Lindsay Graham, Little Marco, Another Bush, (Please Clap), Kasich, Carly and TRUMP!! That was their field. Combined, cannot equal the intellect, dignity and hope ANY one of our current field offers. Let our candidates stump and present themselves, we vote, and then, fight like our lives depend on the one we choose. No more internal back stabbing, especially this far out, and with the hell we are currently in. All of these liberal left candidates are going to run against ONE idiot, treasonous, traitor to our democracy. United, he will be gone, hopefully, in Prison with his family and many, many co-conspiring GOP members.

[watoos]

23. Well said,

the only way we lose in 2020 is if we fight among ourselves.

[RobertDevereaux]

42. Bravo!

[SammyWinstonJack]

47. But it's so much fun...the infighting and accomplishes so much.

[Cha]

96. The facts need to come out.. just like every other candidate..

you're not going to stop that from happening.

We want to know who the candidates are.. each one gets Vetted.

No exceptions.

[Traildogbob]

108. .??

That's what primaries and the debates are for. Let it happen and then we debate their stances. Weigh out all pros and cons and freakin vote. Otherwise, let trump have he way with us all. Putin Fox and GOP are popping the corks at the success of deviding us for their continued power.

[watoos]

21. History repeats,

People are saying the same things about Bernie that people said about FDR.

Who before Bernie talked about Medicare for all?
Who before Bernie talked about free education?
Who before Bernie talked about income inequality, about the rich paying their fair share?
Who before Bernie talked about raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour?
Bernie didn't move the narrative to the left, he moved it to the center.

I read where Bernie will remain a Democrat this time win or lose.

I hope we don't get the point where we are re-litigating the 2016 primary, last I recall Bernie gave a speech supporting Hillary after he lost, that should be the end of the Bernie/Hillary feud. It is in my mind. I voted for Bernie then Hillary.

[lillypaddle]

30. Bernie compared to FDR????

[Jakes Progress]

50. I know.

Giggle fest. Those who don't know history are doomed to misrepresent it in political forums.

[Clash City Rocker]

62. I read that too!

I think t was at liestotelldemocratssotheyvoteforbernieandreelecttrump.ru.

[Cha]

104. lol

[Cha]

91. No they did NOT. FDR was Not a

Divider.

So NO "they didn't "say the same things about FDR". Wrong.

[3Hotdogs]

22. I will vote for him in the primary as opposed to others, except for Elizabeth Warren.

[HAB911]

24. not subject the protections on DU that accrue to REAL Democrats.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[VOX]

25. He also voted against Russian sanctions twice: Once by "nay," the other by no-show.

His “reason” for the initial “nay” vote was to allegedly protect the Iran nuclear deal. And how well did that turn out? (Note that he and Rand Paul were the only two senators to vote against sanctions.)

Regarding the more recent vote on sanctions, Bernie voted with his feet, and didn’t show up.

I prefer to vote for Democrats who are actually just that— Democrats.

[citizen blues]

26. Another question about him.

I would like to know why he has always voted against Russian sanctions, except for this last time when he simply didn't show up.

I supported Bernie in the last primary season, but voted Hillary in the general. However, I've reassessed my support for him since then. Given how much Russia interfered in our election, his refusal to stand up to them is suspect in my book.

[lunamagica]

27. K&R for visibility

[lillypaddle]

28. Yes, yes, yes, yes!

Gawd, I can't stand that man.

[grantcart]

31. And

He did not take actions to confront the Bernie Bros

He. (and his wife) did take actions to improperly use funds to assist his step kids.

He did not give a credible explanation on how he was going to raise revenues to pay for his social plans

He did not face real scrutiny over his campaign, his polices or lack of transparency because the media knows that in 2016, just like now he has a zero chance of winning.

He did see his personal income increase by 500% after he was a Presidential candidate in the Democratic Party.

[calimary]

45. And he never released his tax returns.

Good points, grantcart.

[grantcart]

65. That was what I was referring to re: transparency

Of course everything that Sanders does is always marked by a double standard. He railed against Clinton for not publishing private speeches but aggressively concealed his own tax returns.

The only politician to mimic Trump on the issue.

[pandr32]

76. That quick trip to Rome to ambush the Pope

...disgusted me. I could not stand Bernie after that fiasco.

[Kurt V.]

32. and this will be my only comment on Sanders threads.

this next election is super important and we all know why. so every vote is needed and here's why: voter purges will continue right up to election day, foreign countries will interfere, media will be in full horse race mode, the electoral college is not in our favor etc. etc. That's a tall mountain to climb, so no matter the candidate every vote will be critical. i won't be voting for sanders and i also won't be alienating his supporters here on DU. we do this at great peril.

[Honeycombe8]

34. It's amazing that some people cont to think he is a Democrat.

Someone actually argued with me over this. But a fact is a fact. Look him up in the Senate website. He is a Socialist or Independent, not a Democrat. He caucuses with the Democrats, though, because he has more in common with them than w/the Republicans.

He is no different than Angus King or other independents. In Bernie's case, he has a definite agenda that is more formed than other independents, possibly because he's a Socialist (as opposed to the more generic "independent" ). He's similar to Ralph Nader, IMO, who had an agenda of his own.

He's not an evil person. But he's just not a Democrat. He will register as one soon, though, so he can run as a Democrat. Then revert back to socialist, when the election is over, like last time.

IMO, he is a disruptor, like any other third party. His goal is not the same goal as the Democrats.

[pdsimdars]

35. And my own belief is thank GOD we have heroes like Sanders.

[louis c]

56. How can we criticize Trump for not releasing his tax returns, when BS refuses?

[pdsimdars]

61. He did.

He is one of the LEAST wealthy members of congress. There has never been smoke around his finances. The articles say his tax returns are as boring as everyone expected.
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/bernie-sanders-tax-return-222041

Talk about apples and oranges. I sure hope more Democrats have the mental capacity to think around the stupid things the GOP will throw.

[Cha]

102. No he didn't.. that's two pages of one year..

and everyone knows this who is paying attention.

Link to tweet

Oh, and he's no "hero".

[Cha]

103. Good question, louis.. here's Elizabeth Warren

on Tax Returns..

Link to tweet

[Maru Kitteh]

36. A thousand times. Rec.

Just so much no.

[BlueMTexpat]

38. I support this thread

for these reasons and those others stated by grantcart!

[mac56]

41. Back in the run up to the 2016 primaries

I blocked a great number of DU members due to their harsh, baseless, "mean girl" bashes against Bernie.

I have never gone back to un-block them.

With Bernie's candidacy only a few hours old, the "mean girls" are already at it again. Threads like this identify a whole new crop of blockees.

[Joe Nation]

53. But I felt the Bern....

....Or I feel burned, not sure which.

[lynintenn]

57. good post and so true.

[NBachers]

58. I give this post my 100% full-throated approval.

[Hekate]

60. KnR

[pwb]

64. Bernie is not a democrat but we don't have to do the pukes work for them either.

This is a premature hit piece on a primary hopeful .

[Catch2.2]

117. Agreed!

Enough of the Bernie Bashing threads! If you support a different candidate, post positive threads about them!

[Doreen]

66. I simply think Bernie will just be another version of Jill Stien all over again.

[Cha]

69. Thank You so Much for Exposing

the FACTS.

It's been my experience, too.. we were there for it all.

[Apollyonus]

72. +1000 very well put nt

[Lefta Dissenter]

73. My adult daughter called me at work today

She’s certainly liberal, but not super savvy when it comes to politics. She usually looks to me for input. She asked, “why do I feel so upset that Bernie has declared his candidacy?” All I could do was reassure her that she’s in good company.

[Cha]

92. Wow.. she's certainly

savvy on that. Exactly the way I feel.

[aikoaiko]

74. I'm 100% certain you'll post more anti-Bernie posts.

You can't help yourself.

[kimbutgar]

75. I will not vote independent nor for a fake Democrat

The orange maggot has all his attacks and oppo research prepared for Bernie.


Plus where are your tax returns Bernie?

[TomSlick]

77. As of today, Trump is Bernie's biggest fan.

BS will either lose the nomination and weaken the ultimate nominee in the process or he will win the nomination and give the general election to Trump.

I fear for the Republic.

[Cha]

84. We want to make sure it doesn't.

There are too many Excellent, Qualified Dems who are more than able to bring the Democratic Party Together.

[Cha]

79. I'm keeping this KICKED for

a grand PSA!!

Shine the Light!

[Lucid Dreamer]

80. I don't think Bern has the self-awareness ...

to understand the futility of expectations of nomination
nor
the future damage his campaign will do to the opposing candidates in the primary race.

I could be wrong.

[yardwork]

82. Rec

[denbot]

83. K&R

[Cha]

97. Elizabeth Warren on "Tax Returns"..

Link to tweet

[betsuni]

99. K&R

[Cha]

101. KICK!

[Vinca]

105. True, but he also DID NOT run as a third party candidate.

If he is shunned by Dems and does so this time, there is no chance - zero chance - of Democrats winning the White House. It's best to let the primary shake out and see what happens. The voters will choose the person who can beat Trump. If it ends up being Bernie and people stay at home and mope because their candidate isn't the last one standing, then our democracy is in even more peril than it is today. If Trump happens NOT to be in prison and hasn't dropped dead of a clot, it's not hard to imagine him turning the reins of power over to Ivanka or Don, Jr. in another 4 years, assuming he wants to leave. The one and only thing that is important in this election is beating Trump.

[Cha]

107. KICK!

[Sparkly]

110. I don't think he'll get far this time.

I remember the way Hillary Clinton endorsed Obama at the convention, the speech she gave in giving him New York's electoral votes, and the ways she urged her supporters to back him. Many of her supporters were bitter, and she turned them around.

I contrast that with Bernie sulking for weeks, the behavior of his fans during the convention and his "oh well" response.

He nit-picked at her all the way through, made thinly-veiled accusations, and joined in the game of vilifying her and the Big Bad Democratic Party.

A lot of us won't forget, or forgive.

[Cha]

125. No we won't, Sparkly..

for many reasons.

Thank You!

[dlk]

111. Yes! Can it Truly Be Said Bernie is More of a Uniter than a Divider?

Republicans will be pulling out all of the stops for the 2020 election and what they did in 2016 will pale in comparison. We need to be united on all fronts or Trump will remain in the White House.

[Catch2.2]

112. He may...

Very well be the next President of the United States. I will be voting for him!

[FakeNoose]

120. Not a chance

Bernie will never win the nomination from our Party, and he can't win as an independent candidate either. Besides that he's too old. As much as I like Joe Biden I think he's too old, and yet he's couple years younger than Bernie.

[hunter]

121. Bernie Sanders is going to let his ego destroy his reputation.

Ralph Nader went down a similar path.

[BannonsLiver]

122. Well said Stinky!

[spin]

126. If he can't run as a Democrat he might just run as an Independent. ...

If that happens many Democrats will vote for him. He has a certain charisma that even appeals to younger voters which amazes me. Republicans will not vote for Bernie so if he runs on a third party ticket he will hurt the Democratic candidate.

More young people voted for Bernie Sanders than Trump and Clinton combined — by a lot
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/20/more-young-people-voted-for-bernie-sanders-than-trump-and-clinton-combined-by-a-lot/?utm_term=.fecff9de3e79

It might be wise to allow Bernie to compete in the Democratic Primaries even if he refuses to claim he is a Democrat. If he wins the nomination which I feel is unlikely he should be able to beat Trump.

[Cha]

129. We have excellent, qualified Democrats

running, who will unite the Democratic Party and bring the People together.

[spin]

130. We will see if any of the candidates running can draw the crowds Bernie can. ...

I am not sure why but Bernie has a lot of charisma.

Hopefully one of the others can fire up the voters in the same way.

[Cha]

131. I don't care about BS' "crowds"..

I want a candidate who is not a divider. Someone inclusive and that's not BS

So many people Do Not think he has "charisma". Just the opposite.

[Yonnie3]

133. Locking ...

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