What does it take for Sanders to be on the list of Demcoratic cadidates in primaries

[question everything]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Yonnie3 (a host of the General Discussion forum).

and caucuses in each state?

Is it the decision by the each state Democratic party?

If so, I am telling the chair in my state to bar him. At least, until and unless he changes his party affiliation to Democrat. At home, in Vermont.

Time to stop him. He is playing us and laughs all the way to the convention.

And if he succeeds, shame on us. With so many real democrats running, do we really need go begging a 77 yr old tired millionaire to save us?

[irresistable]

1. Vermont does not have party registration.

Running for the Democratic nomination is a declaration of party. If he wins the primary, he will be the Democratic nominee. If he wins it all, he will be a Democratic President.

[msongs]

2. depends on whether he rejects all things dem after being elected nt

[question everything]

3. What about Patrick Leahy?

Some sort of a hybrid?

And this is the trick that he does at least running for the senate

The famously independent senator, who briefly joined the Democratic Party to run in the 2016 New Hampshire presidential primary only to un-enroll later, officially announced Monday that he would seek a third term in the Senate this fall. He also said that he’ll pull the same maneuver that he did in his 2006 and 2012 Senate races: Running as a Democrat, declining the nomination when he wins and then running as an independent.

The move makes it virtually impossible for another Democrat to seek the party’s nod. And it allows Sanders to loom large in the party primary in August, but still preserve his independence.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/21/bernie-sanders-democrat-independent-vermont-601844

Niice player..

[irresistable]

4. He wins either way. He caucuses with Democrats.

He votes like a Democrat. I and D are just letters.

[Trumpocalypse]

6. He only caucuses with Democrats to get committee assignments

and he doesn’t always vote with the Democrats.

I and D are not just letters, they show where your loyalties lie.

[k8conant]

8. So what does Joe Manchin's D mean? His grade point average?

[Trumpocalypse]

9. It means he is a Democrat

and not just out for himself.

[radius777]

13. Manchin is as loyal a D as he can be

considering WV is a deeply red pro-Trump state.

There is no excuse in being an I in VT which is a deeply blue northeastern state.

We need a real Dem like Howard Dean to run for Senate up there.

[karynnj]

30. If Dean would have run against Bernie in the 2018 primary for Senate, he would have lost ... Badly

[irresistable]

12. He votes with Democrats more often than a number of Democrats.

[Trumpocalypse]

14. Still doesn't make him a Democrat

Joining the party, as he promised to do and then reneged on, would make him a Democrat.

[irresistable]

15. Running for the Democratic nomination is joining the party. Your dream has come true!

[Trumpocalypse]

16. No Joining the party is joining the party.

Not being a leech of our infrastructure and then refusing to join the party as he did in 16.

[safeinOhio]

21. I kinda think think "Democratic" means

letting the voter decide. I will vote for the Democratic nominee. Unless he doesn't release his taxes, he has a chance and to dump trump.

[Trumpocalypse]

24. That is small d democratic.

Cap D Democratic is a political party of which all but one candidate are members of and contribute to and one Independent leeches off of.

[safeinOhio]

38. Silly me

I thought Democrats were democratic. Often called the big tent party and the party of the open minded. Not so much dogmatic and closed to new and fresh ideas. But I’m an old fart that tries to keep an open mind. What do I know?

[Trumpocalypse]

39. It is a big tent party if you care to join it

Not be an independent leech who never contributes to it and goes on FAUX News to attack it.

[safeinOhio]

41. I'be.been a memeber for 48 years.

Voted and donated, how about you?

[Trumpocalypse]

44. But Sanders hasn't nt

[question everything]

79. Sanders did not release his taxes in 2016 until pressure mounted

and he waited until the April due date. And even then, only for one year and only the 1040 page.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/110799443

[ehrnst]

52. Do you have those stats handy? (nt)

[George II]

59. There's a "progressive" Democrat in the House who has voted against the Democrats....

....more than every other Democrat.

[George II]

55. Tell that to Senator Leahy who has declared himself a Democrat since at least 1975.

[irresistable]

56. Leahy endorsed Bernie, so I don't need to tell him anything.

[George II]

58. We're discussing party affiliation, not preferred candidate.

[irresistable]

61. If Leahy endorsed Bernie, his party affiliation did not matter to him.

He knows which side Bernie is on. Most Democrats do.

[George II]

63. But it was said that there are no party affiliations in Vermont, which is false.

That's why people are mentioning Patrick Leahy, who has declared himself a Democrat for 45+ years.

[irresistable]

64. No party membership...that is what was said.

Bernie has declared his affiliation by running for the Democratic nomination.

[George II]

66. In writing and publicly? Haven't seen that yet.

By the way, there is "party membership" in Vermont.

https://www.vtdemocrats.org/

Check out all the local Democratic Party Clubs, too.

[irresistable]

69. Membership in a CLUB.

He has publicly and in writing declared that he is running for the DEMOCRATIC nomination.

[George II]

70. You don't understand how various state parties operate. In Vermont ....

...a Democratic "CLUB" is the equivalent to Democratic Committees in other states.

It's the same in New York, Democrats join Democratic CLUBs to organize, campaign, canvass, etc. I'm sure there are other states that do so as well.

You might want to try googling it.

[irresistable]

71. it isn't party membership

[George II]

72. Yes it is.....

I've got to go now, I'm off to Mystic Aquarium, I hear they have a new display that I was anxious to see.

Tata!

[irresistable]

73. have fun.

[WeekiWater]

31. Look at how Leahy promotes himself on his Senate page.

Patrick Leahy was elected to the United States Senate in 1974 and remains the only Democrat elected to this office from Vermont. At 34, he was the youngest U.S. Senator ever to be elected from the Green Mountain State.

https://www.leahy.senate.gov/about

[irresistable]

34. And yet he endorsed Bernie for President....Doesn't he know that he will Bern in hell?

[WeekiWater]

35. Not sure why he would bern in hell.

I never made such a statement. I was just pointing out your flawed argument.

I'll back it up with this, as well.

https://ballotpedia.org/Vermont_official_sample_ballots,_2018

https://springfieldvt.govoffice2.com/vertical/sites/%7B234B28A5-DB73-489E-ABFA-F2FB1EF67C08%7D/uploads/Samplet_Ballot_-_Windsor_3-2.pdf

Again, no one is berning in hell.

[George II]

60. That's not the subject under discussion. His endorsement is irrelevant for this discussion.

[irresistable]

62. Not really. If his colleagues accept him in the party, why can't you?

[George II]

65. I can't speak for him, but I'm sure Leahy assumes that Sanders will observe...

...the rules of the Democratic Party and declare both publicly and in writing that he's a Democrat and run throughout the primaries as a Democrat. Otherwise he won't be able to run in the Democratic primaries and most likely Leahy will change his endorsement.

By the way, the new rules do say that he must declare publicly that he's a Democrat at the time of declaring his candidacy. I didn't see him do that in his announcement.

[George II]

54. But politicians still declare a party affiliation. Leahy has been doing so for 40+ years.

[NYC Liberal]

5. Didn't the DNC adopt the rule requiring candidates to actually be a member of the party

and pledge to support it?

[k8conant]

7. Is one only "actually" a member of the party if one joins the DNC?

Mmm, then I'm a Democrat. I only registered to vote as a Democrat in 1983 when I moved to West Virginia: there was no registration by party in Michigan when I voted there from 1970 to 1983.

[Trumpocalypse]

11. Yes

[Garrett78]

17. Yes, and Sanders will simply do just that. Preventing him from running would be a PR nightmare.

Some keep talking about this new DNC requirement as if it could actually stop Sanders. It won't, and trying to do so would not look good--to put it mildly. It's best to just let him fizzle out, as he inevitably will following the New Hampshire primary.

[R B Garr]

10. Good points. No more holding our party hostage while

he gets his needs met without contributing.

[Sucha NastyWoman]

18. Joaquin Castro is not a registered Democrat. And Beto won't be either, if he runs.

Texas doesn’t have party registration.

[Demit]

23. Joaquin Castro isn't running for president. His brother Julian is.

And Julian Castro clearly identifies himself as a Democrat, not as an Independent, the way Bernie Sanders does.

[Sucha NastyWoman]

25. I stand corrected about the Castro brothers but

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, talks like a duck . . . I don’t care what the label says.

And I support Democrats like Joe Manchin too, because he gives us a Democratic seat we wouldn’t ordinarily have and he votes with us when he can.

Pragmatism is a good thing in my book.

[Demit]

29. For me, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, talks like a duck, but insists on calling itself

something else—well, that just makes me suspicious about why it doesn't want to be known as a duck.

[Sucha NastyWoman]

37. Question is

Would you vote for him if he is our nominee? If he were running against Trump? What if he were running against someone more like Kasich.

In my opinion the answer to these questions determines whether or not YOU are a real Democrat,

[Demit]

46. ? We are nowhere near the general election.

These are Democratic primary candidates we're discussing.

A word of caution: I don't need to prove whether or not I'm a Democrat. You are skating dangerously close to a DU violation with that comment.

[Sucha NastyWoman]

53. My apologies for getting more personal than I should have, but

Why is it ok for us to question a candidates commitment to the party but be immune to having our own commitment challenged?
Actually I didn’t really mean to question your personal commitment because I have no idea how you would vote. It’s just that if we had a choice between a reasonable Democrat and Trump, anyone who wouldn’t vote for the Democrat is not much of a Democrat to me. That is really all I meant to say .

[question everything]

47. No, the question is - and we will never know the answer - is how his 2016 supporters voted in the GE

I am pretty sure that his candidacy was a factor in our loss, I just don't know the extent. Many stayed home, many voted for Trump. Let's be honest: he and Trump, during the campaign, at least, raised similar ideas, appealed to all the "forgotten" "huddled masses," and "wretched refuse of your teeming shore." Sanders may not have used the term "carnage" in an inauguration speech, but his campaign meant the same.

The answer to THIS question determines whether his supporters are real Democrats. (or what they think the purpose of DU is).

[Sucha NastyWoman]

57. Speaking for myself

I voted for Bernie in the primaries, but I really didn’t have a problem with Hillary and was happy to vote for her in the general. I just wanted a chance to choose a more liberal candidate, since we so rarely have such a thing.

I could hardly believe it the first time I heard that there were Democrats who had voted for Trump. I still can’t understand it. There was plenty to suggest who he was before he was in office.

[George II]

74. Joachin Castro isn't running for President, Julian is.

That notwithstanding, here's Joachin Castro's original "Statement of Candidacy" to run for the House, filed with the FEC in 2011:

http://docquery.fec.gov/pdf/934/11030614934/11030614934.pdf

Observe the box labeled "Party Affiliation" - DEMOCRAT!

Now, here is Julian Castro's "Statement of Candidacy" to run for President, filed with the FEC on January 23, 2019:

http://docquery.fec.gov/cgi-bin/forms/P00009092/1306381/

Item #3. Party: Democratic Party

Interesting isn't it?

[rusty quoin]

19. Bernie is more a FDR Democrat than most of us here.

I love FDR regardless of his failings. It worked for a long time and it was right.

I want what works. I never liked the Democrats who do whatever to keep their jobs.

That said, I will vote for the Democrat in the general, but Bernie has always been, for decades, what a true Democrat should be. The Independent banner matters little.

[madeup64]

20. Thanks Rusty

I am disheartened by the attacks on Bernie by many here as if he personally put Drumpf in office and act as though all that matters is that he does not have a D in front of his name. Then arguing his voting record doesn't matter, issues he has endlessly pushed for decades that align with progressive priorities do not matter, his rejection of big money doesn't matter, that once he conceded the Dem nomination he endorsed Clinton and worked toward her becoming President doesn't matter, that he secretly just likes screwing the Democratic party over and that he has attacked Trump over and over since he conceded doesn't matter because we are stuck with Shitler and there are certainly no other reasons or explanations out there to explain how we got the annoying orange sleeping in at 1600 W. Pennsylvania. There certainly are fair criticisms of Bernie and the campaign manager he selected in 2016 certainly comes to mind. Your post could not have hit the nail anymore on the head imo and appreciate the tone and positivity of your words.

I don't comment much on DU. But I've read it along with several other progressive blogs religiously since about 07 and I have seen plenty of ups and downs for team blue, but the vitriol towards Bernie has been the toughest thing for me to understand. I can't ever see myself voting for a Republican for any public office in my life. I detest all they stand for and fight for. I haven't always been a registered Dem and have been at many times a registered independent. but never once felt like I wasn't part of team blue or that if I did not register as a Dem it somehow negated all I have done to contribute, which I will concede probably does not approach the vast contributions of many here. I am saddened it appears some of my fellow progressives do hold that unfair belief. I can't imagine I am the only DUer who feels this way. Hopefully we can realize who our ire needs to be focused on, and it is certainly not each other.

[vsrazdem]

33. No you are not the only one. Every time Sanders name comes up, you can expect the smear

campaign to start. I believe most people just do not post because it just starts the circus.

[betsuni]

22. FDR had congressional Democratic majorities to pass progressive legislation.

[SidDithers]

27. FDR was great, unless you were black. Or Japanese...nt

Sid

[Trumpocalypse]

40. The Independent banner does matter.

By staying an independent, Sanders does not have to contribute to the resources of the party. Resources that are used to help elect down ballot Democrats for the House and State Assemblies and even local officials, as well as the party infrastructure for presidential primaries. By not joining and pledging support for the Democratic party, like Patrick Leahy has, Sanders is a leech using the platform provided by the party without ever having contribute to it.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

42. FDR and BS could not be more dissimilar.

FDR was pro trade. Bernie Sanders is anti-trade.
FDR was anti-protectionist. Bernie Sanders is protectionist.
FDR was an internationalist (anti-isolationist). Bernie Sanders is isolationist (anti-internaltionalist).
FDR was pro-capitalist and anti-socialist. Bernie Sanders is anti-capitalist and pro-socialist.
FDR despided populism. Bernie is a populist.
FDR was a proud Democrat. Bernie? Meh!

FDR would be rolling in his grave that people whose ideology is the opposite of his own are attempting to steal his mantle.

Pure BS!

[BannonsLiver]

45. [phone]

Thanks for cutting right through the bullshit!

[question everything]

49. BRAVO!

And welcome to DU. We need members like you who know what they are talking about

[AncientGeezer]

51. FDR EO'd the internment of Americans...

[pampango]

68. Saying it does not make it so.

It is true that FDR reduced tariffs that republicans had enacted and introduced the International Trade Organization which included labor rights and regulatory standards. Bernie has criticized trade agreements without labor rights, regulatory standards and environment requirements but he is not anti-trade. Trump is.

FDR was not a protectionist but Bernie has criticized Trump's unilateral tariffs.

FDR was indeed an internationalist (a 'globalist' in modern terminology). Trump is an isolationist. Bernie has supported the Paris Climate Agreement, the Iran nuclear deal, the EU, NATO - all things that Trump has opposed. Bernie is not an isolationist.

When FDR introduced Social Security, the Tennessee Valley Authority, the Civilian Conservation Corps and a host of activist federal government programs, he was accused of being a socialist by the right. Bernie wants to expand Social Security, Medicare (LBJ was accused of being a socialist on this one), regulation of corporations (FDR was big on this) and a host of other 'socialist' ideas that I doubt FDR would have had a problem with.

How was FDR not a populist? Was he some kind of elitist in your opinion? Or some middle of the road Democrat?

"FDR would be rolling in his grave that people whose ideology is the opposite of his own are attempting to steal his mantle."

I doubt it.

[Demsrule86]

43. He is not a Democrat by choice. Thus, I will not vote for him in any primary. Of course in a general

Sen Sanders would have my vote. But I consider it very unlikely, he will be the nominee.

[rusty quoin]

78. I like Warren, but it is so early. I don't think Bernie will win the primaries. I like him though.

[Demsrule86]

80. I like Warren too...it is about electability for me.

[question everything]

48. Then why can't he declare his affiliation?

And, as I stated above: what is wrong with us, with so many candidates, that we have to vote for a self-absorbed tired millionaire?

[katmondoo]

26. The last time Sanders ran he had only one woman to defeat, a little different this time around

[beachbum bob]

28. in my book, he can't. He is not a democrat

[WeekiWater]

36. Tell them to compare these two ballots. Specifically looking at Leahy and then Sanders.

Patrick Leahy was elected to the United States Senate in 1974 and remains the only Democrat elected to this office from Vermont. At 34, he was the youngest U.S. Senator ever to be elected from the Green Mountain State.

Leahy Senate Page

2016 Vermont Sample Ballot with Leahy running as a member of the Democratic Party

2016 Vermont Sample Ballot

2018 Vermont Sample Ballot with Sanders running as an Independent

2018 Vermont Sample Ballot

It's clearly a choice Sanders makes.

[question everything]

50. Thank you. I cannot find the 2018 Democratic primaries ballot

but found this one from 2016

Sanders Wins Vermont Democratic Senate Primary

https://www.wamc.org/post/sanders-wins-vermont-democratic-senate-primary

Independent U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders has won Vermont's Democratic Senate primary but is expected to turn down the nomination and support the state's Democratic candidates, as is his practice.

At best, he is not honest. And this is what we want as our candidate? as our president? Don't we already have one?

[aidbo]

67. lol

I am telling the chair in my state to bar him. At least, until and unless he changes his party affiliation to Democrat. At home, in Vermont.

Keep us apprised as to how that goes, please.

[Gothmog]

75. Here are the rules and the oath

This is the actual rule that governs whether sanders can run as a member of the Democratic party https://www.thegreenpapers.com/P20/2019-01-03-2020_Call_for_the_Convention_12.21.18_w-attachments.pdf

The term “presidential candidate” herein shall mean any person who, as determined by the National Chairperson of the Democratic National Committee, has accrued delegates in the nominating process and plans to seek the nomination, has established substantial support for their nomination as the Democratic candidate for the Office of the President of the United States, is a bona fide Democrat whose record of public service, accomplishment, public writings and/or public statements affirmatively demonstrates that the candidate is faithful to the interests, welfare and success of the Democratic Party of the United States, and will participate in the Convention in good faith. At the time a presidential candidate announces their candidacy publicly, they must publicly affirm that they are a Democrat. Each candidate pursuing the Democratic nomination shall affirm, in writing, to the National Chairperson of the Democratic National Committee that they:

A. are a member of the Democratic Party;

B. will accept the Democratic nomination; and

C. will run and serve as a member of the Democratic Party.

This requirement of written affirmation shall not supplant any necessary qualifications a candidate must satisfy at the state level, but is in addition to such affirmations required by individual states and territories. The written affirmation shall be done via an approved format by the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee appended to this Call

There is an oath that sanders and other candidates will have to take
https://www.thegreenpapers.com/P20/2019-01-03-2020_Call_for_the_Convention_12.21.18_w-attachments.pdf

Presidential Candidate Written Affirmation

Pursuant to Article IV of the Call for the 2020 Democratic National Convention, I hereby affirm that, upon publicly announcing my candidacy for the Democratic nomination for President of the United States in the 2020 election, I am a member of the Democratic Party. I will run as a Democrat, accept the nomination of my Party, and I will serve as a Democrat if elected. I understand that signing this form does not supplant any legal or Party requirement by any state or territory to qualify for ballot placement in that jurisdiction.

Further, I acknowledge that in submitting this form to the National Chairperson of the Democratic National Committee, I am subject to the provisions of Rule 13.K of the Delegate Selection Rules for the 2020 Democratic National Convention and Article VI of the Call for the 2020 Democratic National Convention that authorize the National Chairperson to determine whether a presidential candidate has established substantial support for their nomination as the Democratic candidate for the Office of the President of the United States, is a bona fide Democrat whose record of public service, accomplishments, public writings and/or public statements affirmatively demonstrate that the candidate is faithful to the interests, welfare and success of the Democratic Party of the United States, and will participate in the Convention in good faith.
___________________

NOTARY AFFIDAVIT
STATE OF ______________
COUNTY OF _______________
I, ____________________________________, a Notary Public, do hereby certify that on this ____day of ___________________, 20____, personally appeared before me ______________________________, known to me to be the person whose name is subscribed to the foregoing instrument, and swore and acknowledged to me that they executed the same for the purpose and in the capacity therein expressed, and that the statements contained therein are true and correct. _______________________________________________ Notary Public, State of __________________ Name, Typed or Printed: __________________________________________ My Commission Expires: ___________________________

[LongtimeAZDem]

77. I simply don't see how he can meet this requirement

"is a bona fide Democrat whose record of public service, accomplishments, public writings and/or public statements affirmatively demonstrate that the candidate is faithful to the interests, welfare and success of the Democratic Party of the United States, and will participate in the Convention in good faith. "

[Shemp Howard]

76. Yes, the DNC should bar anyone you don't like.

Don't leave it up to the Democrat primary voters to decide. Instead, let's just purge anyone who doesn't meet the requirements of some arbitrary oath.

By the way, should Amy Klobuchar be purged too? After all, she belongs to the Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party. That sounds suspiciously like Democrat-Socialist. Not pure Democrat at all.

[Gothmog]

81. sanders has not signed oath yet

Link to tweet

[question everything]

83. But, hey, many here still love him

Will having a sing on their back "kick me" be next?

[disillusioned73]

82. Wow..

?itemid=9198223

[Autumn]

84. These were supposed to be closed down. nt

[Yonnie3]

85. Locking ...

Admin has asked that we lock all active primary threads in General Discussion.

If you like, please repost in the Democratic Primaries forum and continue there.