United Methodist Church on edge of breakup over LGBT stand

[bronxiteforever]

Feb 25, 2019 1:55 pm
By DAVID CRARY and JIM SALTER
The Associated Press
ST. LOUIS (AP) — The United Methodist Church teetered on the brink of breakup Monday after more than half the delegates at an international conference voted to maintain bans on same-sex weddings and ordination of gay clergy.Their favored plan, if formally approved, could drive supporters of LGBT inclusion to leave America’s second-largest Protestant denomination.

A final vote on rival plans for the church’s future won’t come until Tuesday’s closing session, and the outcome remains uncertain. But the preliminary vote Monday showed that the Traditional Plan, which calls for keeping the LGBT bans and enforcing them more strictly, had the support of 56 percent of the more than 800 delegates attending the three-day conference in St. Louis.

The primary alternative proposal, called the One Church Plan, was rebuffed in a separate preliminary vote, getting only 47 percent support. Backed by a majority of the church’s Council of Bishops in hopes of avoiding a schism, it would leave decisions about same-sex marriage and ordination of LGBT clergy up to regional bodies and would remove language from the church’s law book asserting that “the practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching.”While other mainline Protestant denominations, such as the Episcopal and Presbyterian (U.S.A.) churches, have embraced the two gay-friendly practices, the Methodist church still officially bans them, even though acts of defiance by pro-LGBT clergy have multiplied and talk of a possible breakup has intensified

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation/united-methodist-church-on-edge-of-breakup-over-lgbt-stand/

[Me.]

1. Then They Lose

At a time when parishioners are diminishing how many can they afford to lose by maintaining/ becoming stricter than they already are.

[bronxiteforever]

2. Yes they do.Incredible isn't it!

[Miigwech]

3. So stupid, so stupid, so stupid. Amen

[gratuitous]

4. A little more info from later in the article

“We Africans are not children in need of Western enlightenment when it comes to the church’s sexual ethics,” the Rev. Jerry Kulah, dean at a Methodist theology school in Liberia, said in a speech over the weekend. “We stand with the global church, not a culturally liberal church elite in the U.S.”

This conference includes Methodists from all over the world, and about 43% of the delegates are from African congregations. The quote above from Rev. Kulah is typical of the sentiments of the African churches, as well as many congregations in the United States. My best friend went to seminary with Methodist Bishop Karen Oliveto, and this has been particularly painful for her.

[Freddie]

6. This almost happened to the ELCA

Having to consider the homophobic (sorry) and powerful African contingent. In the end the ELCA voted for something similar to the One Church plan, leaving decisions about gay clergy and same-sex marriage ceremonies up to each individual congregation. Some conservative congregations left the ELCA over it. Their loss. 10 years later we’re still here.

[gratuitous]

11. Yup

And it's about to overtake my own Church of the Brethren. In our passive-aggressive fashion, we've danced around for decades. The conservatives have been seeing their power and influence slip in the last few years, and they're eager to inscribe their agenda into church polity before their majority evaporates. Unfortunately for them, polity changes require a super-majority vote. When they held the super majority, they weren't worried. Now that they no longer command that super majority, their history of mean little tricks and parliamentary subterfuges has eroded their credibility.

My friends in the Mennonite Church saw one of their major participants, the Lancaster Mennonite Conference, finally up and leave the denomination at the beginning of last year. Without their influence, their last biennial conference was remarkable for its comity and collegiality. The report I heard was that they weren't quite sure how to proceed now that they didn't have to fear the thunder from Lancaster for any proposals. They'll figure it out, soon enough.

It remains to be seen how the Church of the Brethren will proceed. The conservatives are very stubborn, but it may be that they can make out the writing on the wall. What I hope will happen is that the denomination finally gets to the point of, "You know what, congregations? Be welcoming or be exclusive. Do whatever you want, based on whatever you want to base it on. There are scriptural arguments to be made in both directions. We're just not going to promulgate or enforce unity of doctrine on this point. Now, let's get back to what we're called to do."

[hunter]

5. The LGBT inclusive churches will continue on...

... the others will be ugly history.

[lindysalsagal]

7. The trouble with hate is you can't really harness it.

Small people feel comforted by their childish attempts at controlling others. Control, and it's benefits, are illusions.

[phylny]

8. One of our daughters

has a pastor who said she’d leave if they don’t change their stance. She welcomes LBBT people and couples.

[Freddie]

10. UMC clergy

Are very welcome in the ELCA and UCC (and a few others) we have a “reciprocal agreement”. Wonder how long that will last on their end.

[walkingman]

9. They will lose what separates them from the more fundamentalist religions - Sad.

[blur256]

12. I grew up what I used to call a Methopresbyterian

Our family was deeply rooted in the Presbyterian church in our town back in the day. Then the preacher pissed my mom off because he was an ass to her when she was on the building committee for building a new church. So we switched to the Methodist church for awhile. When the Presbyterian minister moved on we went back there.

As a lesbian I am really disappointed on what is going on in the Methodist church right now. The Presbyterian and Methodist churches were the only "liberal" churches in my town back in the day. Being in the buckle of the bible belt our only other options were Southern Baptist, assemblies of God, Pentecostal or Mormon. While I wasn't out at the time, I at least felt safe in both churches growing up. I remember going to the churches of friends who went to other churches and just felt so uncomfortable, even as a young kid, at their hate.

I am UCC now because my wife is a minister in the church. And I do love It! I know they all aren't the same bhut ours is so welcoming. They are open and affirming and even have signs outside declaring it. If I had to go back to one of the two I grew up with, the Presbyterian church is great. They are doing really good things for the lgbtq community. The Methodists are just screwing themselves in my opinion. Which is so sad considering I thought of them as better than that back in the day.

[IluvPitties]

13. Values are changing, and religious organizations should reflect that.

It's part of the natural evolution of society.

[BigDemVoter]

14. How disgusting that a CHURCH would split over BANNING somebody's marriage.

Goddamn, I REALLY dislike religion. And that particular sect is about as tasteless and colorless as they come--I have NO idea of what they believe in or don't. . . . Sad.