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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsYesterday, AOC informed me about something very important to me.
I am a moderate (center-left Democrat). Yesterday at the South by Southwest Festival in Austin, Alexandria told me something about myself that I had not realized.
“Moderate is not a stance," she said in a speech. "It's just an attitude towards life of, like, meh. The 'meh' is worshiped now. For what?”
I had not realized that I've gone through life with a 'meh' attitude about my life. I self-funded my MBA and doctorate education by working as a ghost writer of textbook chapters and teaching supplements. I've had a career as a university administrator, university professor and research and teaching fellow. I have a wonderful family. So I was puzzled. Then I focused on the question: Why are we 'meh' people worshipped now?
Well, we're not worshipped. But I do think we're important. Why? Because approximately 80% of the Democratic gains in the 2018 midterms were in moderate or mildly liberal districts. There's a whole lot of us out there who turned out to vote.
And perhaps those gains also occurred because with a significant Republican majority in the US Senate, promising sky-high changes with no meaningful way of making any realistic progress toward them without compromise, might be a waste of time. Compromise is the foundation of governing. My way or the highway doesn't win many votes in campaigns or in Congress.
So perhaps Ms. Ocasio-Cortez should consider ending her insults of center and center-left Democrats and focus on how to unite all Democrats and nervous independents so we can win the most important presidential campaign in our country's lifetime - Defeating Trump. Because insulting a large segment of the Democratic Party is not a winning strategy.
Quote source: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-pol-aoc-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-sxsw-south-by-southwest-20190310-story.html
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stopbush
(24,808 posts)thewhollytoast
(318 posts)
kstewart33
(6,552 posts)Years of unnecessary war, huge deficits, absurdly expensive healthcare, a corrupt justice system, you name it.
But the beginning of ending this shit is beating Trump. And that will not happen if the Democratic Party splits and we lose the independent vote. Just as it happened in 2016.
We cannot beat Trump without the moderate vote.
Consider: "Gallup recently asked Democrats and Dem-leaning independents this question: “If you had to choose, would rather see the Democratic Party become more liberal or become more moderate?” Gallup found that by a fairly solid-looking 54-41 percent (with five percent expressing no opinion) of Democrats would prefer that their party move toward the middle."
https://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink/2019/01/gallup-poll-majority-of-democrats-want-more-moderate-party/
harumph
(3,281 posts)What I'm getting tired of are meaninglessly phrased poll questions.
"The Middle" is probably something different for every person polled.
DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)
dem4decades
(14,061 posts)
DFW
(60,189 posts)Some, as you point out, think shooting yourself in the foot will help you win the race.
Others will see things differently.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)kstewart33
(6,552 posts)Ms. AOC was certainly doing that in Austin, and thinking it through, I felt insulted as I'd wager do many other moderate Democrats.
Alexandria is impressive. She's smart, energetic, and has real potential. But insulting a considerably large segment of the Democratic Party is no way to win in 2020.
GWC58
(2,678 posts)badmouthing one of our nations greatest presidents, Franklin D. Roosevelt? 🤔
JonLP24
(29,929 posts)Who ironically was defending Obama when he pointed out the flaws of the new deal. Our country has a very problematic history with redlining so we shouldn't take out that fact on a Latina pointing out our history when it comes to treatment of black/brown people.
Stuart G
(38,726 posts)who often does that?...Just asking..Anybody?
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)RandiFan1290
(6,710 posts)
babylonsister
(172,759 posts)
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)If you can't find something to agree on with your friends, you have no chance with your enemies.
And, "Trump must go" is simply stating the obvious, agreeing on who best to govern the country is the hard part.
JoeOtterbein
(7,869 posts)
Andy823
(11,555 posts)We have to unite, and win in 2020, that's fact. Nothing matters more than coming together to get rid of the worst president I have seen in my lifetime. We can't have anyone sitting home and not voting like we did in 2016. It should be the goal of everyone who wants to see trump out of the WH.
rampartc
(5,835 posts)HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)just sayin'.
stopbush
(24,808 posts)I'm always bewildered by Ds who believe the Russians influenced the outcome of the 2016 election, but that that alone wasn't enough. Why not? Why do we need to invent additional reasons for the loss? The Russian interference was systematic and widespread. Remove that, and Hillary wins in a landslide.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)All those State legislators? Trump still carries a ridiculous following for being such a spectacle. People in the center switch back and forth because they want somebody to make a real change.
There is a real groundswell for significant social and economic change at the moment... I'd like to see the opportunity not wasted as we careen back and forth towards ecologic and economic disaster.
yardwork
(69,364 posts)forklift
(401 posts)You'll get a lot of angry responses and flaming from the angry wing. Please don't be discouraged.
People like AOC and BS depend upon stoking anger and resentment to the point of fury. It doesn't lead to success unless there is only a 12% turnout and only angry people show up to vote.
Democratic party is about hope and change in the fabric which takes time and sustained pressure. It is not a party of pitchforks and torches to burn everything down to build a new socialist dream instantly.
In the end, "meh" wins .... just as the HS nerds become more successful than quarterbacks.
Response to kstewart33 (Original post)
Yavin4 This message was self-deleted by its author.
My family was working class. My Mom sewed my clothes because we couldn't afford to buy them. Quality education from a young age? Your assumptions are frankly ridiculous. And don't belittle someone for working to pay their tuition.
What makes you think I'm for the status quo as a center-left Democrat?
Don't like the message, attack the messenger. A sure fire way to split the party and hand Trump 4 more years to destroy our country.
Response to kstewart33 (Original post)
Kajun Gal This message was self-deleted by its author.
unblock
(56,198 posts)I have no problem with robust dialogue among ourselves.
Politicians often argue passionately for their positions or philosophy and they sometimes influence people by ribbing other points of view.
Personally, I'm pretty far left philosophically, but I'm pragmatic in that I'm fine with compromise.
I have zero problem with this comment from aoc, not really anyway.
I think she's technically wrong in that "meh" is apathy, and neither "moderate" nor "pragmatic" necessarily implies apathy.
But rhetorically, I have not problem with it.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)AOC is learning how to stay out of the hot spot, but look at what "democratic socialism" started-- not further serious discussion, but attacks on "socialism" along with the usual doubletalk about socialism, and what would be democratic about it. No one really knew what she was talking about, but that didn't stop them from talking about it.
Same with Ilhan Omar. I have absolutely no idea if there was any dark meaning intended "the Benjamins", but it was an all too convenient hook to throw antisemitism charges at her. She was talking about AIPAC having too much influence, but that is very dangerous territory for a Muslim to step into. If she survives this, she might be better off complaining about the NRA and gritting her teeth about AIPAC.
JonLP24
(29,929 posts)There is a lot of Islamaphobia in this country and very little it is directed at terrorists lumping general Muslims with wahabbi terror groups though they also consider general Muslims fighting in war as terrorists. The all about the Benjamin's was clearly about AIPAC which I learned a lot about and their lobbying efforts.
Separately, pro-Israeli foreign agents registered under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, which can include lobbyists working on behalf of the Israeli government, companies, political parties and other organizations spent about $46.3m in 2017 and 2018, behind only Japan and South Korea. However, only about $2.1m of that total funded political activity, while $44.2m was dedicated to tourism and other industries.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/15/pro-israel-donors-spent-over-22m-on-lobbying-and-contributions-in-2018
She is one of the few to speak out against Israeli occupation and the backlash is interesting to say the least.
I wouldn't worry about Socialism only 3% polled believe socialism involves taking personal freedoms.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)and even a movie. It might have been a TV pilot.
The "Benjamin" is Ben Franklin, on the $100 bill. I have no idea how, why, or when it became an anti-Semitic trope, since there seem to be relatively few Jewish street hustlers where the phrase started.
Anyway, yeah, AIPAC is an Israeli lobbying organization whose stated purpose is to break bread with US politicians and watch out for Israeli security. That, in itself, is quite all right, and other nations do it, too-- to say nothing of what we do in other nations.
The problem is when investigating or saying negative things about it is conflated with anti-Semitism. That immediately poisons the discussion.
ananda
(35,152 posts)Thank you AOC!
radius777
(3,921 posts)who thought deeply about the problems that Americans face - the farthest thing from being "meh".
What we call "center-left" and "left" really are different ideologies.
Center-left moderates like myself believe in mixed-capitalism, and leftists believe in democratic socialism.
If the US had a multiple party system moderates and leftists likely wouldn't be in the same party.
But the reality of the two-party system is that we have to form coalitions in order to win.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)There is a rich progressive left strain in American politics which focussed on breaking up monopolist enterprises and cutting the influence of economic power on government.
radius777
(3,921 posts)who is a fighter from the left in the Dem tradition, something that most Dem voters could support.
The problem is that Warren's brand of Dem left is not the one rising in this country, but instead various alt-left factions (DSA, Greens, Justice Dems, etc) that have an anti-Dem party orientation.
JonLP24
(29,929 posts)That is because the DLC and third way is hostile to the progressive wing. After hearing Al From speak I understand it.
tech3149
(4,452 posts)They got an MBA
wellst0nev0ter
(7,509 posts)Meaning college was affordable back in their day, but kids today must choose between a house or a degree because ::reasons::
Mariana
(15,626 posts)about how they worked their way through school back in the day, don't have the slightest idea how much college costs now, and they don't care to find out. They prefer to think that students today are just lazy and worthless.
kstewart33
(6,552 posts)With two daughters in college, I know exactly what four years at a public university costs. I spent enough years teaching at one.
Try another stereotype.
Mariana
(15,626 posts)that "most" does not mean the same thing as "all".
kstewart33
(6,552 posts)We just disagree and that's really okay.
kstewart33
(6,552 posts)Work and take out loans to make it work. It's a long, challenging slog.
They need help, and so do most students who suffer because of loans from private companies who are just one step above payday loan joints in strip malls.
Try another stereotype.
wellst0nev0ter
(7,509 posts)Using the genderless "they." I have nothing against your students.
kstewart33
(6,552 posts)Does your stereotype mean that all MBAs are Democrats? That doesn't quite jibe with Wall Street. And that they are all men? Wrong on both counts.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 11, 2019, 07:02 AM - Edit history (1)
really such a thing as common wisdom. Most people, even those who can't say who their reps to legislatures are or which party controls at any particular time, have a notion that democracies REQUIRE compromise. They do, of course, not just to function as they're supposed to but to exist at all. Large majorities polled keep saying they want congress to stop fighting and do its job.
And the idea that extremism is better than moderation is going to be a very hard sell to the vast majority of people who appreciate the safe structure our government has always provided in which to pursue their happiness, including things mundane but critical to life itself, like dependable trash pickup and water that always flows. Purging government of everyone who values what we have is at best an eyebrow-raiser.
And above all, almost everyone has a really, really strong gut feeling that stability in their world is a good thing. Newscasts almost every night show scenes of how "or the highway" is playing out in many nations.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)kstewart33
(6,552 posts)Do you take it personally?
Of course you do. We all do and we are committed to defeating Trump. And I take it personally when someone of rather limited political experience, trashes perhaps the largest segment of the Democratic Party. Which amounts to one step forward to a 2020 Trump victory.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)JonLP24
(29,929 posts)That transformed into a safe blue state that Sanders picked up in the 2018 midterms.
I don't see it as sky high as this country as far as politicians go is further to the right than some of the happiest democracies in the world. The US has a long way to go. I don't see it as my way or the highway or without compromised. Before the Third way in the 1950s Republicans campaigned on social security. Nixon created the EPA and proposed Obama care as a counter to Universal health care. The Republican party was further to the left because of Democrats positions. Instead of proposing tax cuts or Romneycare right off the bat moves the middle ground. I'd like a progressive at least once in my lifetime. I lived with moderates and Republicans and I'm tired.
I struggled after the housing crisis where we were foreclosed on and we bailed out the banks rather than homeowners.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)New York is exactly the opposite of the nation itself, from an ideology standpoint. New York is 35% self-identified liberals and 26% conservatives. The nation is 35% conservatives and 26% liberals.
Very easy to rationalize stupid thoughts when the math itself basically carries you across the finish line. The vast majority of her big picture comments reveal that she doesn't understand the landscape. If we allowed her to pick every nominee the last thing we would ever have to worry about is what to say upon gaining control.
JonLP24
(29,929 posts)Despite what label you throw at someone. There are moderate groups that pressure liberals to drop out and if they don't they'll release opposition research on them so I think it is only fair for her to endorse liberals in primaries.
--
One of seven candidates in the Democratic primary to be held on Tuesday, March 6, Moser was at a campaign event last month when an aide pulled her over and said, “You have to see this.” This was an article in The Texas Tribune reporting that the DCCC had posted an attack on Moser on its website, calling her “a Washington insider” who’d said she’d rather have her “teeth pulled without anaesthesia” than live in Texas, and implying that she’d put her husband on the campaign payroll. Queried about what seemed like an unprecedented blast at a pioneer in the anti-Trump #Resistance, DCCC spokeswoman Meredith Kelly doubled down, claiming “Laura Moser’s outright disgust for life in Texas disqualifies her as a general election candidate and would rob voters of their opportunity to flip Texas’ 7th in November.”
Moser’s comments were actually about moving back to her grandparents’ home in Paris, Texas, a small town hundreds of miles from Houston. Moser’s husband, Arun Chaudhary, served as official videographer in the Obama White House before becoming a partner in Revolution Messaging, a firm that has also done work for the Teamsters, MoveOn.org, Daily Action, California Senator Kamala Harris—and the Bernie Sanders presidential campaign.
When I spoke to Moser by telephone she said there had been “a lot of relitigating of the 2016 campaign” and that the attack on her may have been connected to her own support for Sanders. “But I was very active supporting Hillary Clinton in the general election. I rang hundreds of doorbells for Hillary,” she said. A detailed e-mail to Kelly asking which issues the DCCC considers when taking sides in a Democratic primary—or whether the criteria have more to do with a candidate’s funding—was never answered.
The sequence of events suggests that the attack on Moser may also have been a personal power play by wealthy donors. The day the DCCC dumped on her, The Intercept’s Ryan Grim reported that, even though Moser was a pro-choice woman, Emily’s List had endorsed her opponent Lizzie Pannill Fletcher in the primary. Fletcher, a corporate lawyer whose firm recently won a $5.3 million lawsuit against the SEIU’s “Justice for Janitors” campaign, is opposed by the Texas AFL-CIO, who accused her of “undermining the rights and efforts of predominantly immigrant janitorial workers.” But Fletcher does have the strong backing of Sherry Merfish, a longtime supporter of Emily’s List who ,according to OpenSecrets.org, also bundled over $250,000 for Hillary Clinton.
https://www.thenation.com/article/when-dccc-calls-hang-up-the-phone/
They also went around the country to find veterans to run as moderate Democrats to beat the Republicans at foreign policy (it is absurd that people think that Republicans are good at foreign policy) when there are plenty of progressive veterans. I just want fairness in the primaries. If most people vote for the moderate that is fine but I think AOC has a good strategy as far as expanding the electorate. Most young people and non voters are progressive leaning in their beliefs. Again when you poll by policy you get a different story than self identification.
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)
DeafAngelboy23
(35 posts)Reagan Democrats? Meh!