So, I'm in Yosemite this week, talking to a Dutch Woman there with her family

[Burma Jones]

We're talking politics and culture while our kids are playing together and the conversation steers towards Americans not "believing" in evolution and the woman says, "you have lots of people that actually believe humans rode dinosaurs"

I say, "People in the US have the luxury of Ignorance because of our military and economic power, and that's a big problem"

She says, "That ignorance is a real sign of decadence"

I had never though of it in terms of decadence, but she's right on the button.....our fellow citizens who decry secular decadence yet shut their eyes and ears to plain facts are true markers of our cultural decline.

[no_hypocrisy]

1. She nailed it.

[TheDebbieDee]

150. It's been speculated that the use of lead pipes in ancient Roman plumbing was one of

the major causes of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire......after so many decades/centuries of emire-affecting decisions being made by people with brain damage and lead poisoning (after all, mostly only the people who could afford indoor (lead) plumbing could run for a Senate seat), the Empire didn't have enough clear-headed people to make smart decisions.............

Here in 21st century America, we don't have lead plumbing to blame for many of the dumb decisions and pronouncements being made by those in power.

[AdHocSolver]

152. You are forgetting the 60-plus years of the use of leaded gasoline.

Just about everyone in the U.S. showed high levels of lead contamination whether or not they could afford lead plumbing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyl_lead

Moreover, there is Bisphenol A (BPA) used for years in baby and water bottles and as a liner in food and beverage cans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A

There is RBGH (recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone) which is produced through a genetically engineered E. coli bacterium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_Growth_Hormone

and there are issues with genetic engineering as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_engineering

There is the creation of "super bugs" due to the overuse of antibiotics, and the release of mercury from burning coal in electrical generating plants. I have barely scratched the surface.

The Roman Empire merely collapsed. The U.S., together with other technologically advanced countries, might wipe out civilization altogether.

[a geek named Bob]

2. Side question

What ever happened to that creationist musuem...

That showed Adam and Eve fighting Dinosaurs?

[riderinthestorm]

3. Still there and thriving (sadly enough) nt

[a geek named Bob]

5. ...sigh...

I keep hoping my fellow countrymen will grab a clue, and learn some science.


<goes off singing "To dream the impossible dream">

[entanglement]

121. I read that as "grab a club and learn some science" the first time

[a geek named Bob]

135. both versions work well

[sibelian]

207. It might almost be worth postulating that science IS a religion.

... we might get some converts...

[a geek named Bob]

215. Hey...

We have a group of honored dead...

They only wished to give us knowledge, and free us from our chains.

[A HERETIC I AM]

10. Not necessarily;

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/07/05/creation-museum-attendance-is-dropping-and-they-cant-raise-enough-funding-for-ark-park/

[riderinthestorm]

27. That's good to know. I got the information from a quick google search

because I was also curious if they were thriving as well.


http://www.amplifyyourvoice.org/u/drs0043/2011/5/9/Creation-Museum-Exploits

[reflection]

28. I'm embarassed to admit

that I have more than one relative that have made a pilgrimage to this place and are hounding me to go.

I have stated repeatedly that it will be a cold day in hell before I go to this place. I am an engineer, I believe in science and that knowledge is the greatest power. Then they tried ganging up on me in front of my children in the hopes that I would acquiesce. "Do it for your children, if not for yourself," one said.

All this accomplished was that my children learned a few new pointed words and have a greater understanding of what happens when someone lights my fuse. There is a schism now that will take some time to heal.

[AlbertCat]

70. "Do it for your children, if not for yourself,"

I hope you said : "Why would I want my children to be ignoramuses who don't know the truth? I'll take them to the Smithsonian."

[reflection]

85. No

I just lost my temper politely, if that makes sense, and drove a brutal wedge right through the middle of my immediate and extended family. In front of my children.

One of my kids is old enough to sort of understand, the other, not so much. I am struggling with some guilt about it for sure. I took them aside later and told them I love them, and I know they have questions about what happened, and that they can ask me anything at any time.

I also told them to listen to all sides of the story and come to their own conclusions, that Daddy isn't perfect and doesn't know everything.

I would like to tell them, "Your (relatives) are brainwashed" but I want them to reach that conclusion on their own.

I don't know if I did the right thing or not. I'm winging it.

People just need to accept that others sometimes don't believe as they do. As one of my favorite bands wrote, "the spaces in between leave room for you and I to grow."

[AlbertCat]

90. Don't feel guilty!

There's no need. Kids "get it" more than you (or I) think.


Take them to the Smithsonian anyway!!!!!





P.S. As far as "all sides of the story", there are only 2: One is bull shit and the other is science. And seriously, if one is gonna plan a trip to a museum, go to a REAL one. Your tax dollars pay for the Smithsonian. It is yours. You are free to enter (no $29.95).

[reflection]

92. Thanks.

The Smithsonian is definitely on the list.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

107. You sound like

a damn fine dad to me. There are crazy uncles in every family....my very intelligent, very talented late Uncle Bob never missed O'Lielly on faux.

[coalition_unwilling]

109. Make sure before your children are old enough to decide that they have at least

a passing familarity with the Scientfic Method as a basis for establishing knowledge.

Observation-Hypothesis-Experiment-Conclusion: few better ways to 'know' than that, imho. I"m a Humanities person, but with a deep and abiding love for Science.

[reflection]

184. Agree wholeheartedly.

As I said earlier, I'm an engineer, and we discuss the scientific method often when the opportunities present themselves. They are young, so I have to keep the discussion at a particular level, but as they grow older and I see a greater capacity for understanding I will drive the finer points home to a deeper level.

[Wednesdays]

144. You feel guilty? Over what!?

Set aside the actual location for a moment... NO one has the right to tell you where to visit or where to take your children. Or pressure you in that regard.

If they had any respect for you and your kids, they wouldn't pull that kind of guilt trip. They're not doing so for the childrens' best interest, but rather to promote an agenda.

[reflection]

186. I know.

The guilt stems from my inability to smile, grit my teeth and capitulate for the sake of peace. I can be too combative sometimes when I am pushed.

I hate for my children to have to deal with all the negative interpersonal dynamics. But the rational part of me hopes that when they are old enough to truly understand what goes on in an extended family environment, they will appreciate the fact that I chose a more difficult path in order to keep them from being corrupted.

[ladym55]

141. DO IT FOR YOUR CHILDREN????? REALLY????

So, the fam wants your children to grow up ignorant????

I suspect I wouldn't do well at the Thanksgiving dinner table. Somebody would be wearing the gravy .... Just sayin'.

[AlbertCat]

69. This is why churches are tax exempt

If they had to depend on the congregation voluntarily giving......

[jamesatemple]

119. Most of my heroes are heretics! I really enjoyed the last couple of lines from that blog article:

"So the further dumbing down of children, courtesy of the Creation Museum, has been temporarily stalled. Finally, an upside to a bad economy."

[Blecht]

4. "Natural Selection is not Evolution"

http://creationmuseum.org/

Be careful -- that's a painful website with a whole lotta stoopid.

[JBoy]

6. I can't see references to BJU without snickering.

[mikeysnot]

11. Holy Shit

29.95 for adults tickets to get in there!

[DippyDem]

26. I remember reading somewhere that a lotta fed grants paid for that museum. (Yes we built that too)

[Blecht]

45. I noticed that, too

But remember, a lot of their potential visitors are the same ones who have no trouble "tithing" 10% of their income so their church leaders can afford nice cars and prostitutes. (Mormons are not the only ones who tithe.)

And I'd be willing to bet this is one of those places with a lot of coupons offering steep discounts so that nobody really pays that much.

[PavePusher]

111. Hey, ignorance is always expensive, both short- and long-term. n/t

[alfredo]

49. The creation museum, where truth goes to die.

[smirkymonkey]

200. LOL! Good one!

[alfredo]

201. GRIN

[kywildcat]

23. it's in my backyard.....

seriously.

Can't take I275 to the west side of cincinnati without seeing the back end of it...
at xmas time they light little dinosaurs up with white lites....oh yeah for us!

[yesphan]

30. There is a billboard in Oklahoma City

advertising the museum. Over 800 miles away.

[xtraxritical]

29. I bet most of the visitors to that museum go there for a laugh.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

62. Sounds like a good place to drop acid.

[Douglas Carpenter]

67. I suppose in a Hunter S. "Fear and loathing" kind of way

[Hassin Bin Sober]

114. It's the only way.

[Douglas Carpenter]

71. no, no more than most go to fundamentalist mega churches just for laughs

they are absolutely serious and people who share their beliefs are a near majority. More American believe that God created humans in their present form than believe God guided evolution. Only about 15% of Americans believe in evolution without God


http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-human-origins.aspx

[kywildcat]

77. No-it's deadly serious to them

They really and truly believe this crap. But I'm also living in a county populated by products of conjugal visits between siblings.

the same state (and county for that matter) that gave the world the creationist museum, also puked up rand paul.

[liam_laddie]

168. Expensive laugh!

Admission is $24.95 or thereabouts. Stupid customers, wilely owners. Very sad...

[Douglas Carpenter]

65. "Welcome and prepare to believe"

The state-of-the-art 70,000 square foot museum brings the pages of the Bible to life, casting its characters and animals in dynamic form and placing them in familiar settings. Adam and Eve live in the Garden of Eden. Children play and dinosaurs roam near Eden’s Rivers. The serpent coils cunningly in the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Majestic murals, great masterpieces brimming with pulsating colors and details, provide a backdrop for many of the settings.


Hours & Directions

M–F: 10:00 AM – 6:00 PM
SAT: 9:00 AM – 6:00 PM
SUN: 12:00 NOON – 6:00 PM
Last admission 1 hr. before closing.

--------------------------------------
2800 Bullittsburg Church Rd.
Petersburg, KY 41080 (see map)
7 miles west of the Cincinnati Airport

Prices

Adult (ages 13–59): $29.95
Senior (age 60 and up): $23.95
Children (ages 5–12): $15.95
Children (under age 5): FREE

■All passes good for 2 days.
■6% KY sales tax is included

.




This walk through history is the centerpiece of the Creation Museum and features amazing scientific and biblical answers for the world we live in today. Witness the true time line of the universe unfold through the 7 C’s of History—illuminating God’s redemptive plan throughout history.

Location: Begins on the Main Level and concludes on the Lower Level The Walk Through takes on average 2–3 hours and features many of the Creation Museum’s exhibits.



Biblical history is the key to understanding dinosaurs. Explore many of these amazing creatures along with fossilized dinosaur eggs, a triceratops skeleton casting, and much more!

Location: Lower Level Palm Plaza


http://creationmuseum.org/

[a geek named Bob]

68. Wow

Just...

Wow

[AlbertCat]

72. placing them in familiar settings.

Because the Stone Age Middle East was just like KY!

[snooper2]

96. That's the kind of place you walk around with a one-hitter and laugh your ass off

[Aerows]

174. I don't even like smoking pot

And I know I would have to be stoned off of my ass to deal with that place

[Mariana]

180. Just laugh very quietly.

I've heard that they'll toss your ass out in a second if they think you're making fun of them.

[gordianot]

7. My response would have been American ignorance rivals racial superiority ideas of Europe.

You know what gave those Europeans the right to conquer and subjugate the rest of the world? What can they expect when they ship off all their crazies to the colonies? A gathering of religious fanatics in one place with immense wealth is not healthy but they let it happen. Besides if immigration had not happened Europe would be a smoldering wasteland today. Any European complaining about American decadence is amusing given what almost culminated in the 1930's-1940's when European racism reached its zenith.

[kestrel91316]

14. The problem with your comparison is that the things you want to tar Europe with

are in the PAST. Our American ignorance is very much alive, well, and growing.

[4th law of robotics]

53. Europe has a real problem with anti-semitism, anti-immigrant and just outright racism today.

It's not all relegated to some dark pre-history.

[whathehell]

54. Mainly in the past, perhaps, but not completely. Google "Right Wing Europe" sometime. n/t

[lunasun]

139. No not really

...hardly in the past for Europe!

[Fumesucker]

15. Go back far enough in history and everyone has something truly despicable to account for..

I grew up in a time and place where Jim Crow was still in effect, don't blather about racial superiority ideas to me..

[classof56]

32. Oh. My. God. Words fail me.

Tears do not.

Will say, this is not the first time I have seen these horrible images. Them and the song absolutely break my heart. Shame on all who perpetrated this evil, and even more shame on those who would now think it was all okay.

Guess words didn't entirely fail me, after all.

[awoke_in_2003]

40. I have seen it before...

and words still fail me

[alfredo]

50. The movie Borat showed us the pro slavery crowd is still alive.

[avebury]

24. Yes but the problem with what you are saying is

the old saying that those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. Some of what I see happening in the US today reminds me of Fascist Germany and some of pre-Revolutionary Russia.

Europeans lived through what happened in the WWI to WWII to the Cold War era and experienced it first hand. They better then anybody else are in a better position to comment on what is happening here because they have already been there done that and can't believe that we are heading down the road that they have already traveled.

[gordianot]

63. I am not sure doomed to repeat history as much as it is in our DNA.

The seeds were planted here and are now bearing the inevitable human fruit. Native American history is not superior to what happened in Africa, Asia or Europe. We are all an extension of the human condition and can commonly claim African origins. About 10 years ago I attended an international family reunion here in the United States a couple European relatives approached me with the comment that I resembled some ancestors from 200 year old paintings in what at the time was Prussia. I was not amused, I also knew the family history not only from Europe but also in America. The only race I deplore is the Human Race and the willingness of our kind with varying skin tones, geographic and linguistic origins to deny how easy it is for humans to justify the deplorable acts perpetrated on each other. Where ever our kind inhabits no matter our origins we are 3 to 4 meals from chaos. As global warming takes hold and ( say Holland floods) coastal cities disappear I would not bet the bottom line on human cooperation and compassion.

[avebury]

76. I would agree with that.

You know when I watch the various movies and TV shows that focus on what would happen if aliens came to earth I noticed that most (not all) portray aliens in a very aggressive, dangerous form and a threat to Earth. I have begun to think that if we gained the ability for intergalactic travel that humans would probably act just as aggressive, dangerous and a threat to any life form we came across. Too many humans have the opinion that humans are superior to all other life forms and that we have the right to treat this planet anyway we please without regard to other life forms and how much damage is done to the planet. It is an extremely short-sided attitude.

[gordianot]

91. As a fan of SciFi we are probably Mottee from the "Mote in God's Eye".

I wonder how many times intelligent species appear only to wash away. To a species of intelligent adapted life forms that survived we must be amusing and could be entertaining. Even the theme that they want our resources given the vast universe is funny. We would probably make interesting pets.

[snappyturtle]

8. The willful ignorance in this country has become a quality too many like to brag about!

It's also mental laziness.

[Cosmocat]

17. On balance, our standard of living is so high

that people are easily managed by the messaging that republicans and the corporate media put out.

Just too comfortable.

[Progressive dog]

31. I hope that was sarcasm

European countries have a high and more equally distributed standard of living.

[whathehell]

64. They do, and I'm happy for them and wish we had it, but

you have to remember that though they are NATO members,

the US pays 75% of that bill...They're 25% gives them a lot of

money left over to pay for that standard of living.

[Cosmocat]

106. We BY FAR live lives more full of material goods and constant entertainment.

live lives full of material goods and constant entertainment.

It just is a different culture - they live a more relaxed life and are happy with a lot less.

We are lower middle class income, but still have a nice, newer 1,900 square foot house, two newer model cars, two children, pets, 4 TVs, eat out regularly, just got back from a short vacation and are leaving for the beach in a few days ... We aren't putting much away toward retirement right now, but outside of a mortgage, car payment and general bills don't have high debt.

This would make us near royalty in many countries, and upper crust is most.

Sorry, our standard of living is pretty fricken high here.

Not many other countries have people fully invested in nonsense like Jersey Shore ...

[whathehell]

191. I think there's more home ownership here, as well, at LEAST until the most recent foreclosure crisis

You sound like you're doing pretty well for the "lower middle class",

but more power to you!, and yes, our standard of living IS pretty high and I get

tired of the mooning europhiles* who seem to hate themselves and EVERYTHING in this country.

and NO, one does NOT have to be a frigging right winger to say that!


* I lived in Europe for awhile about thirty years ago and my spouse and I visit almost

every year, so I'm hardly "anti-europe", in fact my heritage gives me "right of return".

I just get tired of the knee jerk genuflect every time a comparison is made.

[Cosmocat]

199. Ah ... the "middle"

It WOULD be nice to have universal health care, but of course, here in America, the most cost effective and efficient means of managing health care is the spawn of communism and socialism ...



But, absolutely, there is something that lies between the brainless bashing of everything Europe that the right does and the idealistic viewpoint of Europe by some of our D friends.

We are doing OK - as long as our health holds up we will be OK, but we have a ways to go with retirement.

Key is good decisions with debt ... Hold of a bit on what you want and pay for it instead of using debt and paying 1 1/2 times or more for what you want.

[whathehell]

202. I agreee...Thanks for your input. n/t

[riverbendviewgal]

128. My son lives in UK

He says UK and Europe really look down on America for its ignorance and racism.

[whathehell]

173. I have a suggestion for your son

for dealing with the oh so superior brits and euros he encounters.

Tell him they'd be better postioned to look down on America's "racism"

when one of THEIR countries elects a man of color to its highest office.


P.S. This anti-American garbage is nothing new...We've all been hearing

it ad nauseum since we were children, even as far back as the nineteen fifties,

as in my case.

[riverbendviewgal]

192. It is coming - just like in about 30 years or less whites in America will be in the minority

and it is happening in UK.. Much of Britain is becoming very, very multicultural. It is very much like Toronto....more than 100 languages spoken there. Curry is the number one popular dish there. Amazing, eh?

I love the diversity. Before I retired I worked with people from the 5 continents. It was fascinating.


It is sad that some Americans are not liked. Rudeness is not the way to approach people.

[whathehell]

198. Yes, I hope so.

and I really do appreciate your sensitivity to a lot of the bigotry

we face....I mean, obviously "some" Americans are jerks, just like

"some" of everybody is, but by and large, a lot of the bias is irrational.

A lot of us think it's a resentment of our military power, and God knows,

the country hasn't always been wise about it, but neither were the other

"great powers", like Great Britain, for instance, and the "people" don't

always reflect their government. I remember the consternation over Bush,

but people forget that he won by the SMALLEST margin of any sitting American

president ever...If 50. 1 percent voted FOR him, that means 49.9 did not.

Well, thanks again for being understanding.

[Yavin4]

39. How Many American Families Can Afford A Vacation to Holland?

That Dutch woman and her family probably are not super wealthy, but they can afford to vacation here in the U.S. Not many American families can say the same.

[awoke_in_2003]

41. Not mine...

and I would love to go.

[Cosmocat]

108. Not sure what the point there is ...

It is one family ...

I think people here are missing the point.

Europeans have a nice life - but it is a totally different culture. They are happy with a lot less, and spend A LOT less on material items and entertainment.

We aren't going to Holland, but we pay $130 a month for cable basically so I can watch football and HBO. We spent more on taking our pets to the vets than they pay for healthcare ... We have two newer, mid priced cars.

We could do without A LOT and live the same life ...

[Yavin4]

117. I Live in NYC

and I see thousands of Euro tourist families vacation here in the U.S. Sometimes, extended families, Mom, Dad, kids, Grandparents.

There are very few American families vacationing like that in Europe.

[Wednesdays]

145. Which contributes to Americans' ignorance

Because hardly anyone here sees how the rest of the world lives and thinks.
A vicious circle that feeds on itself.

[Cosmocat]

167. Hogsnot

you see thousands of Euro tourist families because you live in ...

NYC.

I live in central Pa, I don't see many european tourists.

Conversely, I know PLENTY of people who go and visit Europe or travel the world otherwise.

Again, though, this has nothing to do with the point about our affluence as a country.

[Yavin4]

187. The Issue is Beyond Simple Affluence

The issue is about broadening your world view. See how other people live.

And sure, you may know people, but how many ordinary FAMILIES do you know go on vacation to Europe. Not many.

[Cosmocat]

189. Vering off course a bit

I would not argue that there is merit to broadening your world view by traveling abroad.

My point was that our general level of affluence, and self indulgence, is a big part of why the republicans can successfully sell their BS to win elections.

While it might help some for people to travel abroad to become a little more grounded, it just is not what we do. We COULD, if we did without some of things we spend our money on, but we just don't.

Honestly, it is hard enough to take a family vacation to the shore with our girls, who are, shall we say, lively, much less international travel.

[whathehell]

195. Thank you...Everyone but one in my immediate family has been to Europe at least once.

and while we're middle class, we're not rich.

[nanabugg]

44. Our "standard of living" is high, your are right if you mean for the 1%. Quite a lot of people

have a standard of living equal to that of worn-torn and disaster hit third-world nations.

[Cosmocat]

102. Come on

First, and don't try to twisting into my saying it is OK, but the folks you are talking about by and large don't engage in the political process (vote). IF they did, things likely would be a lot different.

I did social work for 15 years, and I am well aware of those who are not doing well, but flat out, 90% of our country live a life that would be royalty to most of the third world countries you refer to.

My point stands, the reason the BS the republican party advances works is because on any given election, 50% of the people who actually vote simply are not living in the kind of discomfort that makes people vote a lot more seriously that whether the president is a guy you would want to have a beer with.

[Arugula Latte]

181. A lot is the emphasis put on "faith" -- like faith is a good thing.

"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." Mark Twain.

Faith just provides an excuse to be stupid and believe stupid things. "Well, the Bible says the universe was made in a week so that's good enough for me!" That sort of thing. Yet, we're supposed to respect and revere faith. I do not. I respect facts.

[whathehell]

203. A lot of people have "faith" in things other than religion.

I've met people who have faith that science will eventually be able to solve things it has not yet solved, and shows no signs of ever solving.

"Faith just provides an excuse to be stupid and believe stupid things"

Yours is a narrow and stupid interpretation, not only of the the word "faith", but of religion in general.

Again, your example is limited, not only to one religion, Christianity, but to one sector of Christianity, which is Fundamentalism. Christan Fundamentalism, does seem stupid in that it denies evolution and preaches a literal interpretation of the Bible, two things which had NO part of my very mainstream Christian upbringing.

I doubt if anybody here gives a damn if you "respect and revere faith"..What some of us DO tire of is your deliberately misleading and narrow interpretation of such.

Have a nice day. I'm sure you'll be spouting some predictable, vitriolic "response", but I won't be listening, as your chronic spleen venting leads me to "ignore" you for time infinitum.

[Arugula Latte]

204. My comment was relevant to this thread.

Too many Americans are ignorant or willfully ignorant and a great chunk of that ignorance can be laid on the doorstep of faith and religion. Christianity is the predominant religion in this country.

I'm entitled to express my opinion on a liberal web site so perhaps you should get some smelling salts when you get the vapors. Or please go ahead and ignore me in the future. I won't miss your pious eyerolling.

[sinkingfeeling]

9. Absolutely.

[siligut]

12. I had a similar experience flying, while seated next to a Dutch male

I commented that he seemed to know a good deal about US politics and history. He was very polite, but indicated to me that he wasn't at all exceptional in knowing world politics and history. He also agreed that the Dutch are very pleasant people in general and attributed some of it to the fact that they live in a small country.

[ladym55]

143. The Netherlands is a small country

They learn multiple languages as a result ... they learn about other countries and cultures ... it's a given. It's what they do. They have also acted as a haven for many refugees. Europeans see the world differently and are very happy with their lives.

We are so isolated and so full of ourselves, and that has resulted in ignorance on many levels.

[annabanana]

13. "That ignorance is a real sign of decadence" . . yeppers. . .n/t

[NYC_SKP]

16. Yes, it is decadence.

And it usually takes an outsider to recognize it.

K/R

[undeterred]

18. Our luxury is going to cost us a lot.

[Swamp Lover]

19. The US has a tiny minority who believe man rode dinosaurs, and refute evolution.

Believing that the US has a significant number of people who believe that man rode dinosaurs is as silly as believing that man rode dinosaurs.

[Hoosier]

22. that depends...

on what you think a 'significant' number are --- 15%? 25%?
I think it could be higher.
And what about Jesus to the USA on the Loch Ness monster?

[genxlib]

25. Close enough

I would say that the US has a significant number of people that believe in Creation and deny Evolution.

A portion of those believe that man rode dinosaurs as a twisted way to explain the discrepancies in the fossil record.

The rest simply ignore the science or find some other silly way to avoid the facts.

I would submit that the latter is no better than the former.

They both suck and are holding us back from entering the 21rst century.

[whathehell]

83. "The rest simply ignore the science or find some other silly way to avoid the facts".

No, the rest believe in science and evolution.

Forty percent is way too high, but it's STILL less than half

[Progressive dog]

33. If you consider 40% to be small

I don't.

[Arugula Latte]

34. A significant chunk, almost half, of Americans "don't believe" in evolution.

That's on par with "not believing" that the Earth is spherical, or "not believing" in gravity.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Close to half is not a small number.

Just saying.

[whathehell]

61. Not small, but still a minority.

Just saying.

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. And growing

it is a sign of imperial decline actually.

[whathehell]

78. Possibly, but

not necessarily. Nations have been known to change course.

[Burma Jones]

75. No, you are quite wrong, do you live in a swamp?

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/frontal-cortex/2012/06/brain-experiments-why-we-dont-believe-science.html


You are welcome to search on your own.

[TexasProgresive]

20. "America is the only country to leap from barbarism straight over civilization to decadence"

This was a favorite quote of my Dad's. It is attributed to several in various forms.

[whathehell]

57. Really?...How about when we were "civilized" enough to help rescue Europe from it's "decadence"

through two world wars?

[AlbertCat]

79. to help rescue Europe from it's "decadence"

Uh.... it took us long enough. We didn't have much of a will to do any "rescuing" of Europe until after the Japanese pissed us off.


As Eddie Izzard put it: "Where the hell have you been?"

[whathehell]

98. Unless you imagine racial superiority and genocide to symbolize "enlightenment".

Uh...It took us "long enough"?

Aw gee...Maybe we didn't know Europe expected us to be "on call" every time

it got into another one of its nationalistic messes. As you might recall, it had been just

about twenty years since we'd spilled American blood helping them with their FIRST great war.

So, you're damned right, we didn't "have much of a will" to rescue them AGAIN..Duh,

and, by the way, if you've never heard of the "American Firsters" I'd suggest you look it up.

In addition, of course, we were, at that point already fighting in the Pacific, essentially alone, so

entering Europe left us fighting on TWO fronts....Given all that, I do hope

we've been forgiven that "delay". .

[AlbertCat]

156. What are you blathering on about?

"Europe expected us to be "on call" every time "

WTF are you all bent outta shape over. Did I not ray-rah America and diss Europe enough for you?

This "we're # 1...fuck yeah!" attitude is half our problem!

[whathehell]

163. What am I "blathering" about?...LOL..Good try, pretend not to "understand"

When you've just had your ass handed to you.

[southernyankeebelle]

21. Thank the republican party for allowing the teavangelicas to take over their party.

Just think if Romney wins what this country will end up with a theocracy.

[alfredo]

52. Dr Frankenstein lost control of his monster too.

[southernyankeebelle]

110. LOL, that's funny

[yawnmaster]

35. I know of absolutely no one that believes "humans rode dinosaurs"...

well maybe a few children watching cartoons.
There is some truth regarding ignorance in this country, but I believe she is a bit ignorant regarding Americans.

[awoke_in_2003]

42. But 40% of Americans...

Believe creationism over evolution. When the creationism museum shows men riding dinosaurs, it is easy for outsiders to equate the two.

[whathehell]

51. Are you sure of that stat?...Seems awfully high.

Even if it truly IS that high, though, it's still less than half, a minority

and I wish people would stop classifying "Americans" with a minority number.

[Burma Jones]

81. Look here, look elsewhere..........Actually, 78% of people believe in some version of a fairy tale..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/05/americans-believe-in-creationism_n_1571127.html


"Forty six percent Americans believed in creationism, 32 percent believed in theistic evolution and 15 percent believed in evolution without any divine intervention."

[whathehell]

93. "Fairy tale" my ass...The figures indicate that a narrow majority accept evolution, with or without

belief in a higher power.

"Theistic evolution" is just another way of saying they believe in evolution,

but also believe in a higher power...So what?.

[awoke_in_2003]

97. May I ask how old you are?...

I am not trying to insult, I just want to relate the way I see it. I am 44, and for the last 20 years or so I have seen religion grow out of control in this country. Religion is now dictating the laws of this country. You may look at 40% or so as a minority, but I see it as a rapidly growing one. It is troubling to me that people are insulted to think that man and ape share a common ancestor, but are perfectly fine with the idea of having been created from dirt.

[whathehell]

100. Sure.

I'm eighteen years older than you, and yes I AM very concerned at the rise of fundamentalist Christianity in this

country...I'm at retirement age, and my spouse and I are just hoping things have gone as FAR to the Right

as they are likely to, that things might have gotten SO crazy, that the pendulum will swing back.

I'm a boomer who grew up in a large Northeastern city and some of the people now in

office, would have been LAUGHED off the national stage in the sixties and seventies.

I was raised Catholic, and, whatever the failings of the Catholic Church, they didn't deny evolution, and they didn't

insist on a literal interpretation of the bible like these RW fundamentalists do.

[awoke_in_2003]

118. To be totally honest with you...

I moved to Texas from Cleveland in 92 when I was 24. That might explain why I see it as religion getting out of control. When I moved here, though, I don't remember religion being quite so "in your face" as it is now. Hell, when I moved here, the great Ann Richards was our governor (I miss that lady). I would love to get out of this place, and if I could find a secure job getting what I get paid now, I would return to Cleveland in a heart beat. The town gets its share of jokes, but it is really a great place.

Oh, and I hope you are right about the pendulum

[whathehell]

123. Right.

Yeah, the religion thing seems to have heated up allover,

but especially so in the red states.

I hope you can get out of there too.

I now live in Chicago and have heard that Cleveland is quite okay. In fact,

my spouse interviewed for a job there and we considered relocating there.

I'd take it in a heartbeat over Texas, that's for sure.


P.S. I remember Ann Richards speaking at the Democratic convention back in the Eighties.

She was a cool lady...Seems like she's the last democratic governor texas had, as I recall.

[awoke_in_2003]

124. Yes, she was the last one...

to be replaced by Dumbya. Chicago is definitely a town I want to check out sometime. I need to make a Bluesfest

[whathehell]

127. Yes, and that is too bad.

Chicago IS a great town!...I'm an East Coaster originally, and I really didn't want

to make the move fifteen years ago, but I did and am quite glad about it...The people

are great, it's a blue state and there are a zillion fun and interesting things to do here -- Plus,

unlike some other big cities, it's fairly affordable....I think of it as

New York, without the negatives.

[awoke_in_2003]

142. You know, I just remembered something...

in 92 I took a Texas Government class at the local communitity college. My sister had to take it to finish her degree, and wanted me to help her. I remember the professor saying something to the effect of "In local elections, we (Texas) tend to elect democrats but vote for republicans in national elections". Sadly, the first half of that sentence is no longer valid.

[Burma Jones]

105. Higher Power = some version of a Fairy Tale

Evolution doesn't need a higher power designing the evolutionary process........


If you find Fairy Tale offensive, how about Mythology

[whathehell]

125. Sez you.

Belief in evolution can exist with or without belief in a higher power.

If you want to start an anti-religion bigotry session, consider the A&A forum.

P.S. If you find "bigot" offensive, how about "narrow minded strict empiricist". ?

[Burma Jones]

148. I'm sorry if I offended you.

If you find Fairy Tale offensive, how about Myth? Myth describes truth we haven't been able to figure out empirically - so, Myth.

And evolution doesn't require belief at all, no more than gravity requires belief.

The idea of divinely directed evolution is what I had to adopt when I was 12 years old to align a Christian upbringing with the expanding set of facts being presented to me.......

[whathehell]

162. Do you realize you're repeating yourself?

and that you apparently failed to read my post as I already addressed

the "requirement" point ?

Have a nice life, dear...I hope you work out your anger issues.

[Burma Jones]

178. I'm not the one with the angry user name and hidden posts

You have a nice what's left of your life there pumpkin..........

[whathehell]

182. Nice try, honey, but hidden posts are only accounted for in 90 day increments.

but if you're the typical passive aggressive you appear to be, I'd say you'd

be wise to worry about what's "left of your life", as that condition is known

to engender heart attacks, cancer and other life shorteners.

[AlbertCat]

82. 40% of doctors believe you can pray away disease

Did that put it in perspective for you?

40% may not be half, but it is huge. Were the statement in the subject line true.... would you go to an American doctor? I wouldn't.

[whathehell]

89. 40% of doctors in denial of their own medical training, and with far more responsibility than the

average person would clearly indicate a FAR more calamitous state of affairs.

Does that put things in perspective for you?

[eltrippero]

99. prayer

I am an athiest, however the power of the human brain to influence the body is well established. Maybe prayer works for some because they believe it. A placebo

[AlbertCat]

154. Maybe prayer works for some

It doesn't.

There was a controlled double blind experiment. C'mon, you've heard about it.

The results were either the prayers did nothing at all, or made things worse if the patient knew he was being prayed for.

[AlbertCat]

153. FAR more calamitous state of affairs.

I don't think so.

Not if you can get it thru your head that 40% is a huge # and these people believe fairytales about basic knowledge. You don't know WHO might be this deluded. It could be one of your doctors! And a couple of nurses too. (They teach "touch healing" is some nursing schools, y'know)


Or the fireman,

Or the judge you're standing in front of.

Or your friggin' REP IN CONGRESS!



Does that put things in perspective for you?

[whathehell]

161. Um, yes. I think so.

Last edited Sat Aug 25, 2012, 09:02 AM - Edit history (1)

and If you think the whole country is now completely non-functional and incompetent in everything

from medicine to firefighting, because of some statistic on religion you read, you're either:

A. Living here and suffering an acute case of paranoia

B. Foreign, living elsewhere and so able to indulge in the most ludicrous anti-American fantasies.

In either case, your arrogance seems in inverse proportion to your knowledge and/or sanity.

P.S. I acknowledged forty percent was too large a number in my first post, so "get that in your head"...duh.











:

[MADem]

146. I think they believe in the placebo effect, and the placebo is "whatever works for the patient."

I don't find that percentage surprising in that context.

[AlbertCat]

155. You do realize my example was made up.... right?

I clearly stated "WERE THIS TRUE....."

I was trying to illustrate the fact that 40% of people ignoring reality is a huge problem. 40% is embarrassingly huge.


Placebo is hard to come by in modern medicine because you must tell patients about their treatment and what they are taking.

[MADem]

176. No, that wasn't clear to me, and thanks for pointing it out to me.

I must have read too quickly.

However, it's not outside the realm of possibility, that figure of forty percent.

Some surprising things have emerged over the years about the placebo effect, one of which is that it works EVEN if you tell someone they are taking an inert substance...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/dec/22/placebo-effect-patients-sham-drug

[whathehell]

169. In your most paranoid fantasy

Last edited Sat Aug 25, 2012, 09:18 AM - Edit history (1)

perhaps, but not in fact.

You might want to learn to make the distinction.

In the interim, do make yourself comfortable on my Ignore list.

[jtuck004]

120. You should get out more. <G> Let me introduce you to

Wiki:

John Donald "Don" McLeroy (born June 3, 1946) is a dentist in Bryan, Texas and a Republican former member of the Texas State Board of Education...McLeroy received a Bachelor of Science degree in electrical engineering from Texas A&M University in College Station and his D.D.S. from the University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston. McLeroy formerly served as a first lieutenant in the United States Army.

Not an intellectual lightweight.

"When asked if human beings lived at the same time as dinosaurs, he said, “That is my personal belief.” Here. Sorry to direct you to a comedy site for the quote, but it seems appropriate. And you can listen to him.

Perry appointed him as Chair of the TEXAS STATE SCHOOL BOARD, and some others who believe this serve with him. They tried to force through a curriculum change to base science on "creationism", whatever that is, which would have impacted textbooks across the entire nation.

He was not re-confirmed the next time he came up for consideration as a member, He filed a lawsuit. He lost. His associates are still there.

There are at least tens of thousands of people who think just like he does. It is a part of a willful belief on their part (curious, since they insist on Doctors who study real science to treat their medical needs, for the most part). The important fact is that THEY ARE ORGANIZED, HAVE A PLAN, and PERSIST, often turning failure into success. Many, and you can hear them every day on the radio, say they would rather see the country in ruins if they can't get their way. (See: Congress). Many deliberately sought and sit in very important positions where they can use their wealth, or influence, or just the drive that being a True Believer can provide to capture your tax money and refocus it to their ends. A moral imperative, in their eyes. (I wonder if Democrats will ever get this dedicated to working people and the vulnerable again? And no, I don't consider paying 70 billion in subsidies to keep criminals in their seats at investment banks to be a Democratic principle. But I'm old enough to remember when being a Democrat meant the party was proud to insist that people have the opportunity to work, for a pony if they wished. Perhaps that affects my view of today. But I digress).

In his short sleeves, and collectively with others, they can potentially do more harm to this country than any 50 terrorists have ever thought of. So it might behoove people to check out their local school board. Maybe even run, whether you have kids or not. 'Cause those are the ones that are gonna be graduating from college and giving you change at Burger King. You want them to be good at what they do.

(As an aside - These same folks would like to eliminate discussions of racism, since that didn't exist with the dinosaurs. To accomplish that they want to erase the word, the memory, of "slavery", treat it as if it never existed, replace it with the words "“Atlantic triangular trade,”, whitewash it, as it were. Profiteers like Rmoney investing for the profits from jails full of black men, easier to ignore if one can re-write history, eh? But I digress. Again. Sorry, but these are SUCH interesting people).

There are more, and there are people who choose to believe this in positions that affect various aspects of our lives all over the place - remember, it's a moral imperative for them to attain those positions, so look around - google textbooks (hint: Virginia) and see what else you come across. Scary stuff.

Be careful, it might set your hair on fire.

[MADem]

147. I always thought the only way a kid could ride a dinosaur was with a time machine...

The animatronics at that place are simply horrible--really cheesy and cheap...and the wigs on the anamatronic kids (and adults) look like rejects from Jack's Joke Shop!

[Yavin4]

36. How Many American Families Are In Holland on Vacation?

The answer to that tells you volumes about the current state of our nation.

[CTyankee]

46. It certainly tells you why so many Americans are so stoopid about "socialized medicine."

They are delusional about how awful European style health care is, because they are ignorant.

I was in the Netherlands last October on a little barge and I visited some small towns where the great Dutch artists of the 17th century painted, and also Rotterdam and Amsterdam. The Dutch people were extraordinarily nice, funny, well informed, cultivated people. I loved being in their country...

[whathehell]

126. Bullshit...They're being BRAINWASHED by those with a vested financial interest in private insurance

And they're not necessarily "stoopid" at all...The fact is, more Americans have been to Europe

than the reverse.

[CTyankee]

133. well, there are those who don't seem to know that "socialized medicine" is not bad!

Otherwise, why haven't we had single payer in this country? What is the explanation? Why do we have politicians railing against "European style health care" to cheering crowds here?

There is no other explanation than IGNORORANCE.

What is YOUR explanation?

[whathehell]

164. I didn't deny that, my point goes to

reason.

"There is no other explanation than IGNORANCE. What is YOUR explanation"?

I just GAVE you one. What part of the word "brainwashed" do you not understand?

[whathehell]

59. My American family can afford it...n/t

[Yavin4]

94. Can you go without borrowing money to pay for it?

If you can, you're one of the very lucky few. That Dutch family can vacation here and pay for it without putting it on their credit card.

[whathehell]

104. Yes.

and I know we're in the minority, and we're lucky.

On the other hand, my spouse and I (we have no kids) are both a bit

over sixty years old...We certainly couldn't do in our younger years.

[Yavin4]

116. The Dutch Woman in the OP was with her kids

and she was younger.

[whathehell]

122. Whatever.

How do you know she was "representative" of the Dutch people in general?

[yawnmaster]

95. I don't know. Do you have some numbers? eom

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Nailed it

Empire in decline...or at this point, free fall.

[cyclezealot]

43. you have several options.

Once some visiting Italian exchange students went to see this museum. Don't encourage such kind of interactions. When the students met up with their museum curators , it was not a happy scene.. The students cracked up hysterically . Not good for international relations.

http://creationsd.org/virtual_tour.html

[Live and Learn]

60. Oh my, that one is in California. Yikes. nt

[slackmaster]

101. It's in "Klantee," which is not characteristic of most of California

I've been there. It was funny and sad at the same time.

[bemildred]

47. Corrupt, decadent, empire in decline, yes; obvious since the 1970s at least. nt

[whathehell]

172. I don't know where you live

but it was certainly not "obvious" to me in the 70's, nor, I would bet,

to most people then cognizant and alive.

Unless, of course, by "corrupt" and "decadent" you mean "imperfect",

especially in comparison to the rest of the pure and virtuous world.

[bemildred]

175. Vietnam. Nixon. Watergate. Disco. Reagan. Lying "News" media. Police riots.

It was fucking well obvious to me.

[whathehell]

177. Yes, and of course, other countries never experience similar situations, right?

I don't know what world you live in, but in mine, bad wars, bad presidents,

and yes, even "bad music", LOL, exists outside the US.

[bemildred]

183. Yes, they do, and it is fucking well obvious in their case too. nt

[whathehell]

185. Really?...Then why not start bashing them?

Just for a change of pace, and all.

[bemildred]

188. I do, all the time.

It's my country, it's my job to speak up when political leaders have their heads up their asses. Why do you feel so defensive about it? Do you favor sheeplike obedience to our masters and overlords?

[whathehell]

190. On this site?

and to your question, no I certainly do NOT favor "sheeplike obedience"

to any "master" or "overlord", and I think DU does a FINE job of critiquing the country

but I also think things can be overstated to the point of our believing we are some sort of Great Satan

Without Peer in Human History...A lot of the Euros who are quick to criticize us, for instance, were themselves,

imperial/colonial powers not that long ago and were guilty of everything they now

point the finger at us for.

[sibelian]

208. Yes, of course they are.

Because, these days, they know better.

[whathehell]

209. Sometimes..

not always, as you can see for yourself when you google "Right Wing Europe".

[sibelian]

210. Right wing Europe is not a serious contender for anything on that continent.

Right wing America....

[whathehell]

211. Yeah, that's what they thought before Hitler and Mussolini too.

I think we're all quite aware of the Right Wing in America" on this board,

but some of us do get weary of the knee jerk euro genuflect.

[sibelian]

212. Miss the days when it was the other way round, do you?

[whathehell]

213. Bwhahahahaha

When, pray tell, was it "the other way around"?

As long as I've been living (62 years) anti-Americanism in Europe

has been alive and well.

[sibelian]

214. Over your head?

Suit yourself.

[whathehell]

216. Under it.

I have NO idea what you're talking about, but I sense

you'd rather talk in riddles than gather up the courage to speak plainly.

[JDPriestly]

48. Decadence is our problem.

Marks of our decadence include

1) thinking we can survive as a "consumer" rather than producer or at least a conservation-minded economy.

2) thinking we can import more than we export year after year

3) excessive gambling for "fun" and "thrills" (that was, for example, a sign of decadence in France and England in the 18th century)

4) the widespread belief that investment, that is, "owning" things as opposed to working or managing work is an economically viable lifestyle

5) not cooking and growing our own food combined with a monoculture in agriculture (too large a share of our crops is corn)

6) destroying the environment without a thought for the future

7) replacing morality and justice with military power in our strategy in dealing with other nations

8) not providing for the poor and weak

9) excessive class division

All signs of decadence in my view.

[eilen]

55. Are you a Distributist too?

Just asking, they are so hard to find. The media and current political structure is so intent on dichotomy-- Republican: Democrat; Capitalism: Socialism etc. I mentioned Distributism to a lady 2 weeks ago and she said "I haven't heard of that, it sounds kind of like socialism". Sigh.

[B Calm]

56. Thanks to the religious right we are in decline!

Hopefully the people wake the fuck up before it's too late!

[mckara]

58. Oswald Spengler Wrote of this a Century Ago

In The Decline of the West

[Alduin]

73. Evolution isn't a belief.

It's a theory supported by a ton of data. It's not something that can just be shrugged off like the idiots who believe in the magic sky fairy do.

I hate religion with a passion. It's turning us backwards.

[Burma Jones]

84. Hence the quote marks around "believing"

A nice quote from Neal deGrasse Tyson:

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe it."

[Taverner]

87. I don't believe in gravity!

So I am going to walk off this cliff just to prove my faith...

[Douglas Carpenter]

74. More American believe God created humans in their present form than believe God guided evolution

only a small minority believe in evolution without God



http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-human-origins.aspx

[Spitfire of ATJ]

80. Part of it is the "persecution complex" of Christians...

...it's like they purposely throw out the most extreme nonsense just so society will laugh at them so they can point to the ridicule as proof that they are victimized, to the point of martyrdom.

[Douglas Carpenter]

88. "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." - 2 Timothy 3:12

In the fundamentalist mindset, persecution confirms salvation. The absence of persecution cast serious doubt on one's own redemption. So they have to feel persecuted. It is a must and central to both their identity and their sense of salvation.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

112. The Right knows this and link themselves to the fundies every time they whine about the media...

...thus equating the media as being against God.

[Taverner]

86. She's spot on.

Rome before the fall, Spain before the defeat of their Armada, France before Dien Bien Phu, even the UK post WWII (they never understood why India would want to become independent.)

[Arctic Dave]

103. Not only is this a decadent thought process but so is the Ayn Rand philosophy.

We have become so accustomed to our comfortableness that we can't fathom having to actually work together to achieve the luxuries we have.

Rugged individualism is the the most decedent tripe one can believe.

[ErikJ]

113. Ironic that Koch Tea Party funders also funded Wash DC REAL dinosaur museum.

(Reuters) - American industrialist David Koch, a major supporter of conservative causes, said on Thursday his lifelong fascination with dinosaurs drove his $35 million donation to renovate the National Museum of Natural History's dinosaur hall.

The gift was the largest single donation in the Washington-based museum and research institution's 112-year history, the Smithsonian Institution said.

"I've had a love affair with dinosaurs since I was a boy," Koch, who turned 72 on Thursday, told Reuters in a telephone interview from New York, where he lives.

"I realized that the exhibit at the Smithsonian was very out of date. Some of it goes back 100 years, and we were in desperate need of renovation," said Koch, who is on the museum's board of directors.

The current display on dinosaurs and paleontology has gone mostly unchanged for 30 years, and the Koch donation will cover most of the planned $45 million renovation, said Randall Kremer, a spokesman for the museum.

[trailmonkee]

115. I thought the same thing recently.. in order to be a glutton, you must close your eyes to the world

our nature is to be kind, I truly believe that... but if we are skilled enough at shutting down our moral compass, we can then indulge in all kinds of bloated consumption... guilt free!!! The GOP are fucking geniuses at this!!!

[riverbendviewgal]

130. My NJ republican bubba brother is very proud to know nothing about the world

and he says he is not interested in learning anything about any other country.

[trailmonkee]

132. and i bet you he is a nice guy.....

... I see that as a different problem altogether, the fact that we can have people with such malfunctioned morality and they can still be considered decent upstanding citizens Because they go to church they are family centric people, and they look the part,etc

[riverbendviewgal]

136. No he is not a nice guy

He is a racist and wished someone would "get rid of" Obama..

[Quantess]

129. About 20 years ago I had a conversation with a Dutch man I knew.

Abortion was a topic that was decided upon a long time ago in Holland, and it was no longer an argument, he said.
That was during Bush I. Probably 1990.

[developertest01]

131. President ROMNEY. Make you sick, break out your wallet, quit talking.

I have the secret. Its the money. If you have yet to donate, break out the wallet, spend the 25 dollars and just do it. Post all you want its money from people like you and me that counts. Start your own page, or check out my beautiful cat and donate on mine. Quit talking, its money that counts.
http://donate.barackobama.com/page/outreach/view/2012/willardbuster

[ck4829]

134. We have segments of America that believe science is a liberal conspiracy and view ignorance as bliss

Pearl Jam's "Do the evolution", there's a scene of stone age people thousands of years ago dancing around a fire right next to a scene of people throwing books into a fire... That's the US in a lot of places.

[MrScorpio]

137. The Dutch are generally sane

The time that used to spend with my in-laws was quite eye opening to me. I didn't know how to take a place that makes sense. I eventually adapted to it… If I could go there to live, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[lunasun]

138. ignorance and arrogance are signs

and once you ony think you are the best
the room for improvement is narrow + discouraged

Plus it not our century anyway

[patrice]

140. Absolutely & THINK of the systemic consequences of that fact, the CO$T$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ of ignorance!!!

dumb-fuckery is EXPENSIVE.

[Nevernose]

149. Totally unrelated: Yosemite is awesome

We got their for the very first time this summer. Fantastic. I think my favorite memory is floating down that creek and watching my daughter, who is sixteen and so is naturally worldly, sophisticated, and jaded beyond belief, look at those granite walls and simply say, "wow."

[ellie_belly]

151. 11th grade Anthropology class studying evolution of skull

It was so interesting to feel/observe my reaction. On parents' night the teacher was explaining how they started off the year, by looking at the skulls of various other human-like non-home sapiens and discussing whey they did not evolve into a thriving (?) species, while we did. I kept wondering what the other parents were thinking about America's condition. This is at an American-curriculum international school and most of the parents are diplomats or work in aid/development. A pretty educated, interesting group. I was embarrassed to even be thinking about it.

[BlueCheese]

157. Isn't it kind of rude to go to a foreign country and insult the people there?

[Raine]

158. It's arrogant and what Americans get called "ugly" for doing it.

When a foreigner comes here and does it though I guess we're expected to be polite, respectful and agreeable.

[Hissyspit]

166. That's not particularly what Americans get called ugly for doing in other countries.

And the woman was clearly, as presented in the OP, invited into the conversation by the poster to present her opinion.

[whathehell]

171. If by "that" you mean arrogance, cultural insensitivity, etc., I'd have to disagree with you.

[Hissyspit]

194. Well, the OP disagrees with you.

See post 179.

[whathehell]

196. I don't really care.

I expect my experience with Europe and Europeans is at least equal to his.

[whathehell]

170. Thank you.

It's about time this was said.

[Hissyspit]

193. No.

It's not.

[whathehell]

197. Well, when you tell us what "that" is,

A response will be possible.

[whathehell]

217. Yes.

It is, and your three word pronouncements might mean something

when you're able to give an alternative.

[Prometheus Bound]

159. To be fair, I doubt she would have said it if she knew 7000 people would read it.

[Hissyspit]

165. She was clearly invited into an intellectual discussion and she had one.

"the conversation steers towards Americans not 'believing' in evolution and the woman says, 'you have lots of people that actually believe humans rode dinosaurs'

I say, 'People in the US have the luxury of Ignorance because of our military and economic power, and that's a big problem'"

Some people travel to meet other people and exchange ideas with them.

I see no sign of rudeness in the discussion as it has been presented in the OP.

[Burma Jones]

179. She was definitely not rude, nor were her husband and children

and she and her Husband had earned Graduate Degrees in the US

I feel more akin to this educated liberal Dutch woman than with the American Fundamentalist Republican....and that's a problem well documented by the late great Joe Bageant in "Rainbow Pie" and "Deer Hunting With Jesus."

I try hard to be compatible, to understand and empathize with the religious conservative, but even this thread in a very liberal forum has caused me to put someone on ignore who had taken great offense.

Also, when you are the "Leader of the Free World" the rest of the free world gets to take shots at you.....it's the price you pay

[XemaSab]

205. It's certainly on parade in this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021208343