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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLAGC
(5,330 posts)I never took Mittens as being a "true believer" -- always figured him for a "Jack" Mormon.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)I'm not that good. We shall see if we can find the original on the web.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)His latest excuse for not showing his tax returns is that he doesn't want people talking about how much he tithes.
hlthe2b
(102,236 posts)So, whether or not he wears the traditional underwear, he is a "true believer" one would have to think.
http://www.heraldextra.com/lifestyles/faith-and-values/religion/romney-as-mormon-church-leader-became-master-of-many-keys/article_1a5f2d4d-e1fe-597c-99f2-fed1a1804777.html
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)^snip^
In the back office of his Weston, Mass., headquarters a quarter century ago, Mitt Romney, the chief Mormon authority in the Boston area, told the leader of his Spanish-speaking congregation that he would not directly pay for lawyers to help the growing number of illegal immigrants in his church. Then he carefully instructed his subordinate on how to circumvent the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints new hard line against such assistance and subsidize their legal aide.
"In those issues I cannot help you financially to pay for lawyers," Romney said, according to Jose Francisco Anleu, a Guatemalan immigrant. "But what I can do is allow you to give them food assistance from the bishop's warehouse," a church welfare pantry. The money saved could be used to "pay lawyers." He reminded Anleu that he could use church funds to cover rent, utilities and health care for his needy members. The money came from Anleu's budget, but, as Anleu noted decades later, it was a budget sustained by Romney's office.
A close look at Romney's leadership in his church shows how his actions sometimes clashed with his political positions, which include advocating on the campaign trail for a policy of "self-deportation." Romney's decades as a lay church leader -- first as bishop and later as stake president, which gave him dominion over all the church congregations in and around Boston -- shaped a man as orthodox and committed to his faith as any presidential nominee in history. It is an experience that demonstrates Romney's mastery of the institution and confidence in his authority.
"Mitt's responsibilities in the church had either been teaching or supportive," said Gordon Williams, who as a Boston stake president acted as Romney's mentor and patron. "When you are a bishop, you are the lone person in the wilderness, all the responsibility is yours now." Spiritually, Williams added, "this then requires the expansion of a different element of your understanding about how to interact with people -- particularly in an ecclesiastical sense, rather than being a CEO of a company."
nanabugg
(2,198 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)It says -
I never took Mittens as being a "true believer" -- always figured him for a "Jack" Mormon.
I have no idea what you think I was trying to say but I think you got it wrong.
otohara
(24,135 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Or lack of it.
It makes us hypocrites.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)yeah religion doesn't play a part in politics......
BULLSHIT.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)But not make fun of religion itself.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)I appreciate your net nannie posts.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Or your boss judge you based on your Darwin fish sticker you proudly display on your car?
Point is, let's try not to be hypocrites.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)Nothing I have to say about any of them can make me or any of us "hypocrites". They have done me and those like me actual, measurable harm, they have done so gleefully and with malice of forethought, and they deserve every. single. word. of. scorn.
SHAME on you for even suggesting they deserve tenderness or mercy from us. We deserve to respond, as harshly as we wish.
If you can't handle that, delicate flower that you are, I suggest you sit down, shut up, and stay the fuck out of the way. Your advice will NEVER be good advice for so long as they can do me and those like me actual, lasting harm while expecting me, their victim, to remain silent and simply bear it.
Iggo
(47,552 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)progressoid
(49,988 posts)First of all having a Darwin fish does not reflect a religious belief.
Second, if someone wants to judge me because of a Darwin fish, that's fine by me. No skin off my back.
IgnatiusReilly
(34 posts)ALL religions are a joke.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)And they MATTER to people. Learn to respect it you want respect back.
IgnatiusReilly
(34 posts)unworthy to hold ANY elected office.
Anyone who needs religion to tell them how to behave or to keep them in line lack the emotional maturity to hold an elected office.
You want to be religions, keep it to yourself, keep it out of schools, keep it out of government, keep it on private property. You put it out it public, I will mock you.
Respect that.
Response to IgnatiusReilly (Reply #12)
darkangel218 This message was self-deleted by its author.
IgnatiusReilly
(34 posts)that would be a great idea.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)IgnatiusReilly
(34 posts)I could careless
belcffub
(595 posts)otherwise you would not have taken the time to reply...
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)their faith by using it as a tool of politics it is they who have removed the special status from 'faith' and placed in the public square as a device of their agenda. If it was 'holy' they would keep it apart from money and power games, they don't.
The LDS promoted and paid for Prop 8 as an expression of their 'faith'. They demanded control over the lives and rights of others because of their club rules. And that's what it is, a club with club rules, nothing more.
cordelia
(2,174 posts)roody
(10,849 posts)Response to IgnatiusReilly (Reply #12)
Union Scribe This message was self-deleted by its author.
Auggie
(31,167 posts)I don't like it either, but to suggest all those who do have beliefs lack emotional maturity to hold elected office is a ridiculous generalization. You won't get respect that way.
IgnatiusReilly
(34 posts)as for respect, why would anyone give a damn what anyone on the internet has to say about me or anything for that matter.
I know I don't.
What I say on the internets is what I would say to someone IRL and I don't care what people think of or about me.
Fla_Democrat
(2,547 posts)You have been deemed 'unworthy to hold ANY elected office. '
http://www.usnews.com/listings/ten-obama-faith-moments/biden-ash-wednesday
Keep in touch..
Imagine, not even hiding it under his clothes, but sticking his faith right on his forehead.... how weak minded.
IgnatiusReilly
(34 posts)and pretty silly putting ashes on your head thinking it will keep him safe or bless him in some way.
If Joe wants to walk around looking silly wearing ashes so be it but doing so also alienates a whole bunch of people.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)He could easily sweep the floor with you. And he doesn't interject his beliefs into politics nor does he stuff it down anyone's throat the way you're attempting to do with your beliefs.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)nt
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)or if I alienated someone.
Go do something good for someone and quit ripping on peoples' beliefs. It does a body good.
piratefish08
(3,133 posts)ashey foreheads. death cross necklaces.
silly pointy hats.......
magic symbolism.
but MAN lets fuck with how silly the Mormons are huh?
Fla_Democrat
(2,547 posts)See post 85.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Best post of the day.
malaise
(268,968 posts)but he doesn't exist either
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Where do my presents come from every Christms?
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)Religion has caused, and continues to cause, more harm in this world than anything else. I will not respect people who try to force their asinine beliefs on others, especially since they're based on a poorly written dusty old book.
And btw, if you think religious people respect others, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
Buh bye.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)And wars. Great idea!
We as humanity need to evolve pass hate and discrimination, and learn to show respect to each other, regardless of gender, religion or sexual orientation.
Peace.
tridim
(45,358 posts)spanone
(135,830 posts)chknltl
(10,558 posts)Go ahead, make fun of my underwear!
CabCurious
(954 posts)RC
(25,592 posts)to their religious beliefs. For instance, I will eat pork on Friday if I want to, no matter what laws anyone passes. Abortion is no one's concern except the woman first and her doctor second. It's her life and her body! Another example is Sunday Closing. And if you stop and think about the list is long.
The minute a politician pushes his religious beliefs on non-believers, using his office, that should disqualify him from any elected government office.
The United States was founded as a Secular Nation, not in any way on anyone's religion!
The War On Women is biased on religion. We need to get those religious war mongers out of our government.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)But how are you going to achieve that by picking on their underwear? Cmon now.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,047 posts)I never cared what kind of underwear Mo Udall wore.
JI7
(89,248 posts)LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)But picking on the mainstream stuff is intolerance!!
jerseyjack
(1,361 posts)The wars, hate, and hurt carried on because of religious bullshit will only stop when people recognize the incongruity of what they say they believe and what they, deep down, know cannot be possibly true.
Humor and ridicule go a long way towards waking people up
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Do you really think it's your duty to 'wake people up' by using mockery? And if you really think you have any power whatsoever over what others believe you're seriously deluded. So what is worse? Belief in a higher entity or delusion?
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)as reason for their actions, spending millions to strip others of their rights with impunity, because anyone saying anything against religion is just 'cruel'? Puh-lease. They use their 'faith' to attack others, that makes the 'faith' a device of politics, no longer sacred. They made that choice.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)I think you should mock them and the hatred in their hearts and tell them to stop using their 'faith' as a crutch for their own sub-human behavior. Don't mock their religion. Mock their individual interpretation of that religion. You'll never get anywhere by telling them they believe in a myth, unless you want their hatred to grow even more. And no matter how smart you are you have no idea if there is a God or not. You just 'believe' there isn't and you rely on your 'faith' too.
I assume you do want to win the argument right? Mocking people's religious crutches never won anything but enmity. Mocking their behavior, on the other hand, is using solid facts.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)And of course it is their actions that we mock. They are the ones who degrade and mock their faith when they take that which they claim is holy to them and use it as a tool of worldly agenda. It is not my job to keep their religion sacred, that is their job, and it is the LDS who dragged their faith into politics in the most hateful of ways. They use their faith like Rove uses a list of contacts, and that converts the 'faith' into just another political organization.
They use the 'faith' as an excuse for their behavior, and you say that excuse is theirs to use with impunity. I do not agree with you. I do not agree that if a person calls their weapons 'religion' others must not defend themselves from attacks using that weapon.
And you know, you do not know nor did you ask what I believe. I am speaking of human behavior, not of the existence or non existence of God. I never said I'm smart, I never said myth, I never said there is no God. Those are words you put into my mouth. I said they altered that which they claimed was sacred to them into a profane thing by their behavior they used their 'faith' in ways which degrade it to the level of any other political tool. If they want the 'faith' to be respected, they need to keep it out of politics. This is a faith, LDS that does not allow others to see their rituals at all. Yet they use those dogmas openly to attack others.
I do not agree that if a person calls their weapons 'religion' others must not defend themselves from attacks using that weapon.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)So why use mockery? Your argument is quite compelling, and some of it, like the part about them using their faith to act out their personal hatred is a great way to fight them with their own actions instead of attacking their religion.
and I do apologize for assuming you're an atheist.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)"Rhetoric does not get you anywhere, because Hitler and Mussolini are just as good at rhetoric. But if you can bring these people down with comedy, they stand no chance."
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Mockery, on the other hand is cruel and vicious. I think they're very different things. Comedy is meant to bring laughter to something taken way too seriously. Mockery isn't.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Mel Brooks again: "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die."
The point being no humor about vicious bigots is going to amuse the vicious bigots. They will cry 'mockery, liars, how dare you'. Because they do not like being the punchline. The truth of the humor will offend them, which is sort of the point.
TBF
(32,056 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Alduin
(501 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)How is Mormonism more kookoo than any other religion or belief?
See, that's why fundies laugh at us sometimes, cuz were not any better than them when it comes to hypocritical judgement.
Maybe we should start with ourselves before labeling and crucifying others.
Alduin
(501 posts)Seriously?
Fla_Democrat
(2,547 posts)What is Harry Reid's religion?
Reid is a Mormon.
What has Harry Reid said about Mormonism?
In a speech to the students of Brigham Young University, Reid said, "I also say that my faith and political beliefs are deeply intertwined. I am a Democrat because I am a Mormon, not in spite of it."
Let the mockery commence.........
Go ahead.. I'll catch up.
Alduin
(501 posts)I don't care if they have a (D) or (R) next to their name.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Harry Reid is also a Mormon, you call him an idiot too?
Grow up!
Alduin
(501 posts)I'm not the one that needs to grow up.
You won't change my mind on this. Ever.
progressoid
(49,988 posts)He's an idiot.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Therefore you're blocked. Adios.
Whoop dee doo.
Plank, eye, and all that other stuff.
Fla_Democrat
(2,547 posts)Joe Biden is weak minded
and Harry Reid is an idiot.
Lotta love on Democratic Underground. Feel the tolerance.
Oh, by the by, has anyone brought up the Eucharist yet?
I can't wait for that one....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharist#Catholic
The Catholic Church teaches that when the bread and wine are consecrated in the Eucharist, they cease to be bread and wine, and become the body and blood of Christ,[39] each of which is accompanied by the other and by Christ's soul and divinity.[40] The empirical appearance and physical properties are not changed, but for Catholics, the reality is.
I mean, really. Shouldn't any politician, hell any human being be considered a little nuts for believing they are eating human flesh, and drinking blood? Ok, granted, divine flesh and blood, but really?
Joseph Smith believed Jesus was in America and Israel actually existed in the US. An angel named Moroni showed Smith where the golden plates were in NY, which he translated.
Anyone who believes that is an idiot.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Islam, Judaism, bog-standard Christianity -- all just as goofy and stupid as Mormonism.
Same here.
mike_c
(36,281 posts)See my sig line.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)roody
(10,849 posts)all religions?
renie408
(9,854 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)I want somebody to ask Mitt that same question during the debates. Obama would answer straight away. With Mitt the stumbling and stammering would go on and on and on and on...
Please let Candy Crowley ask it. Puleeeeze!
on edit: Big Dawg answered "boxers"
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)A rule that, I suspect, was invented by somebody whose primary experience with female bodies was a meaningful relationship with the Sears Catalog.
xmas74
(29,674 posts)I thought it would be under so the bra actually works as support. Then again, I guess you wouldn't get whatever benefits you're supposed to get from the garments if they cover other garments that touch your skin instead of directly touching the skin.
I guess one positive is that she wouldn't have to worry about whether she should wear a slip with a light colored or light weight material dress. She could wear a white cotton dress on a sunny day and nothing would shine through.
eShirl
(18,490 posts)I thought most of us were already aware of that...?
6000eliot
(5,643 posts)IgnatiusReilly
(34 posts)No way the supreme being would allow the faithful to get skid marks.
Skid marks are for the heathens!
rateyes
(17,438 posts)MgtPA
(1,022 posts)especially when I saw this photo:
Bonhomme Richard
(9,000 posts)an 1860's kind of way.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)He's trying to keep the friction down to a minimum.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)Is where his tithing goes to.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)and that's all I need to know about Mitt and his Hater's Temple.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)And the best and most potent weapon of all is the truth.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Did you oppose Tina Fey for mocking the life out of Sarah Palin? "I can see Russia from my house!" was one of the lines that helped us defeat her. Harsh mockery of her, not her policies, of her. "I'm going to use a lifeline Katie".......
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Let me reiterate the essence of what I said in response to another of your posts. Humor is good. It is designed to elicit laughter about something that's taken away too seriously. Mockery isn't.
Please try to read what is written.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)me about mocking 'the faith'. My first post said :
'So if I mock anti gay bigots for bigoted actions, that is me being cruel?"
All about their actions, not the beliefs, and your reply was 'I assume you do want to win the argument right? Mocking people's religious crutches never won anything but enmity. Mocking their behavior, on the other hand, is using solid facts."
I never once said 'mock their faith' I said mock their behaviors.
So who was not reading what was written? Re read the thread, I said 'if I mock them for bigoted actions'
You simply went off on me for things I did not say. I said 'behavior' and I said 'actions' and I listed a few of those actions. In response you said 'don't mock their faith'. Which is not related to what I said. At all. Additionally, you failed to address what I actually said.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)It rallied people to her side. The dumb fucking words out of her mouth beat her. Voters don't like bullies.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)network star and producer? What a strange theory you have. She lost, they lost, but there was a rally to her side over jokes? That's funny stuff you write there. Really absurd.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Batshit, loonybin, crazy. If some guy on the street was wondering around talking about magic underwear everyone would the he was insane. Attach it to "religion" and suddenly I'm supposed to respect it. Alrighty then.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)Alduin
(501 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Oh wait, Kennedy was going to be the Popes servant.
There are many things to be critical of Romney...by the way.
Fla Dem
(23,656 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Blue Idaho
(5,049 posts)Sadly, they spend more on PR, shopping malls, condos, supporting conservative legislation, and dunking the dead than on helping the poor. They have actively disappeared big chunks of their history to look more acceptable. They practice "lying for the lord" to keep the truth about their less savory beliefs from non-believers.
They are a corporate cult.
Willard is a true believer and he will take his marching orders from Salt Lake if elected.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)And they built it into an even bigger business.
One day the Temple in SLC will be as powerful and iconic as the Vatican...what a horrid thought.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)It is what he wants to do to this country that matters, not whether he wheres boxers, briefs or a thong.
Having Democrats and liberals attacking Romney over his religious practice makes us look as mean and petty as those on the right who are birthers or go after Rev. Wright. We should be better than that.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)liberals, conservatives, whatever
Cattledog
(5,914 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)about the "White Horse Prophecy" of the Mormon Church...
Bigmack
(8,020 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)HeiressofBickworth
(2,682 posts)I saw it as confirmation that Romney is devout in his faith and because he wears the symbols of his faith (the underwear), he would bring the tenants of his religion to the way he would govern. That means that we MUST investigate the Mormon beliefs, beginning with the one that says a Mormon will be elected to the White House and will take orders from the LDS elders. This and other Mormon dogma is very serious information we need in order to base a voting decision.
John F. Kennedy was also feared in the beginning because of his Catholic faith. He was asked about where his loyalties would be if he became President. He gave an answer to sufficiently allayed the fears and convinced the voters that his loyalties were with the United States and the Constitution and laws of the US. Romney has not made such a statement which leaves the question open.
So, examination of his demonstrations of faith has a real place in the investigation of his worthiness, goals and plans for the Presidency. For me, based on what I've read about the faith and what I know from my own experience, I would never vote for him. But then, I would never vote Republican anyway.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)we can tell the truth about them.
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Bigotry is everywhere. So is hypocricy I guess...
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)He is a devout, well-respected Mormon, who has been through the Temple and was an LDS Bishop. It would only be newsworthy if he DIDN"T wear The Garment.
Hey, as per LDS Powers That Be, the Garment can stop bullets!
csziggy
(34,136 posts)Your awkward Mitt Romney questions answered.
McKay Coppins BuzzFeed Staff
Posted Jan 25, 2012 1:19pm EST
It's perhaps the most awkward question of the 2012 cycle: What's with Mitt Romney's underwear?
The subject of long-running public curiosity, the subject occasionally pops back into the foreground, as with a widely-retweeted image earlier this year (top), and footage of the candidate in Florida this week.
From the start of Romney's career as a public figure--and, in many ways, well before then--the special undergarment worn by many observant Mormon men and women has been a point of political curiosity, debate, and derision. While provocateurs and bloggers make jokes about "magic Mormon undies," anti-Mormons try to cast the garment as something more sinister--a bizarre symbol of its wearers' fealty to a scary, secretive cult. The reality is far less exciting.
More: http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/a-brief-guide-to-mormon-underwear
otohara
(24,135 posts)Every time I think of Romney now, I see his undies.