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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums8Th-Grader Killed By Texas Police Had Pellet Gun
(CBS/AP)
BROWNSVILLE, Texas - Police say the weapon a Texas eighth-grader pointed at officers in a school hallway before they killed him was a pellet gun that looked like a real handgun.
Interim Brownsville Police Chief Orlando Rodriguez says 15-year-old Jaime Gonzalez had "plenty of opportunities" to lower the weapon but "didn't want to."
Rodriguez says two officers fired three shots and struck Gonzalez at least twice.
--CLIP
Rodriguez says that before the confrontation with police, Gonzalez walked into a Cummings Middle School classroom and punched another boy in the nose. He says he doesn't know why Gonzalez brandished the weapon but that the initial call to police said a student had a gun.
MORE...
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57352546/8th-grader-killed-by-tex-police-had-pellet-gun/
dionysus
(26,467 posts)Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)not surprised that the cops took the threat seriously.
I just got back from McAllen yesterday, and it is a freaking war zone down there, from Laredo to Brownsville.
Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #2)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)I was THERE!
You have no idea.
This is a war involving the Mexican Marines and the narcoes.
Here is just one example:
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)By Ken Ellingwood and Tracy Wilkinson
March 15, 2009
Reporting from Zihuatanejo, Mexico, and Mexico City -- It was a brazen assault, not just because it targeted the city's police station, but for the choice of weapon: grenades.
The Feb. 21 attack on police headquarters in coastal Zihuatanejo, which injured four people, fit a disturbing trend of Mexico's drug wars. Traffickers have escalated their arms race, acquiring military-grade weapons, including hand grenades, grenade launchers, armor-piercing munitions and antitank rockets with firepower far beyond the assault rifles and pistols that have dominated their arsenals.
Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semiauto- matic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California.
The proliferation of heavier armaments points to a menacing new stage in the Mexican government's 2-year-old war against drug organizations, which are evolving into a more militarized force prepared to take on Mexican army troops, deployed by the thousands, as well as to attack each other.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexico-arms-race15-2009mar15,0,229992.story
That's 2 years ago, I can't imagine it's getting better.
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)My friends and relatives rely on twitter to keep up to date with the scrimmage lines, to avoid getting caught in the crossfire. The narcos are driving around in armored vehicles that can take a direct hit from an RPG. Civilians haven't got a prayer.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Certainly not from either the US or Mexican government, this madness is indicative that short of a rethinking of strategy on both sides of the Border, it will only get worse. My best wishes to your friends and relatives, and let's pray for accurate tweeting.
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)On another occasion, I'll tell you the story of six men in my cousin's house, at three O'clock in the morning with long guns, looking for an assassination target. That was less than a week ago.
She's alive, thank God, she was not the intended target.
All she lost was the cash in her purse, they didn't even take her credit cards.
These guys are serious, focused, deadly, and fucking dangerous.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Here from the LA Times
http://projects.latimes.com/mexico-drug-war/#/its-a-war
If you want I can offer you videos as well from all over the border
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)cops react that way regardless, when faced with anything that looks like the real deal.
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)It's sad that a 15 year old boy died.
And cops all over the US (or the world, for that matter) would probably act the same, given the same circumstances.
I just feel, given the situation close to the border, and sometimes spilling across the border, that the reaction time from law enforcement down there is just that much shorter.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)not to report that situation in Mexico. Here, we have areas already under unofficial control by the cartels... this will expand in an obvious manner where the "middle class" lives. (Well to be honest, it did a while ago, but it was ignored... Coronado was home to the Drug lords for a while, perhaps still is)
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)of the war raging on just outside our borders.
Juarez Chihuahua is ranked the most murderous city on the planet. Right across the border from El Paso, Texas. You'd think that would be worrisome to somebody in the US, but Noooo.!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)also asking questions about that war might raise some uncomfortable questions about the US, and DC.
demtenjeep
(31,997 posts)something tells me this child had much to be troubled about.
WillowTree
(5,325 posts)tammywammy
(26,582 posts)It's not like he's 17 and in the 8th grade.
Mosby
(16,310 posts)Need to reevaluate use of force by cops.
Shit like this needs to stop.
The cops murdered this kid.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)He pointed a gun at a group of armed men. That way lies madness, and usually death.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)'im in the legs or shoulder. Fucking A.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)If you not shooting to stop, you do not believe your life is in danger. If you do not believe your life is in danger, you are not allowed to use deadly force against anyone. Firearms are always deadly force.
And, no, most cops do not do target practice. Most cops do the bare minimum needed to qualify with their gun.
teddy51
(3,491 posts)very well have been real. Know way would I wait to find out.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)How could they have known that it was not a real gun?
virgogal
(10,178 posts)rfranklin
(13,200 posts)I'd like to see it for myself before I decide.
virgogal
(10,178 posts)for the most of my life.
Works for me.
Edweird
(8,570 posts)Could you reliably determine the threat from this from a distance?
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,326 posts)Jean V. Dubois
(101 posts)In any case the owner of a toy gun with an orange tip is not required to keep it on, he may paint over it or remove as he wishes.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)We can only expect the police to act on the information they have. If it was difficult to establish from a distance that it was a replica gun it's not really the fault of the police that the child chose to portray himself as a credible threat.
Mosby
(16,310 posts)Some stun guns fire electrodes over a distance.
Or they could have used a device that shoots a net.
Or they could have sent in a K9.
Or they could have winged him in the leg.
A K9 would have been the best bet, they would have known it was a pellet gun instantly.
teddy51
(3,491 posts)the gun were real or not before I acted. At that point it is his life or mine!
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Joe Shlabotnik
(5,604 posts)My thought then, before knowing it was a BB gun, was 'why couldn't they negotiate with an 8th grader'. I think the fear level has just gotten ratcheted up too high, and over-reaction is sadly becoming the first reaction.
GoCubsGo
(32,083 posts)It doesn't matter if that person is an 8th grader or an adult. Irrationality has no age limit.
UTUSN
(70,691 posts)Evasporque
(2,133 posts)Jean V. Dubois
(101 posts)If not, then this appears to be a problem without a remedy. And if you do want to outlaw realistic pellet guns, all I can say is good luck with that in today's political climate.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)pellet guns in a completely different color. Yellow, red....whatever. Something from the factory so that it cannot be mistaken.
I really don't know if this will help, but might be worth a try.
Jean V. Dubois
(101 posts)Manufacturers are already free to make colorful versions of their products. Since they don't (aside from the occasional pink pistol marketed to women), there doesn't appear to be much of a market for them.
Sometimes the proper reply to "If it might only save one life, isn't it worth it?" is "No".
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,340 posts)but I have some pellet rifles that could cause severe injury to a person, possibly death.
With muzzle velocity nearly the speed of sound, a .177 caliber pellet could easily pierce parts of the skull.
Pistol probably have much less muzzle velocity, but could still probably pierce skin, eyeballs, etc.
They are not toys. I just try to follow the usual safety rules for firearms when I'm target shooting with a pellet rifle.
So, if he pointed it at a cop, the cops' shooting seems justified. The kid made a poor decision.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)It takes a hit in the right place but the human body is vulnerable in certain places to even a hit by a pellet. At the least, you can get blinded by a hit in the eye.
Jean V. Dubois
(101 posts)They're rather exotic as far as air guns go, of course. Your point is well taken, even a low-powered air pistol can cause injury or death, although it would be almost impossible to kill someone with a .177 pellet at 450 fps.
backtoblue
(11,343 posts)I'm very naive when it comes to firearms, but I think a shot knocking the gun from the boy's hand could've prevented his death as well as preventing him from hurting anyone.
MH1
(17,600 posts)They aren't paid for that, and their tax base isn't paying them to be that well-trained.
I would love to see a world where every police officer could shoot so well that they really could shoot accurately to disable in cases like this. But I think that's a far place from where we are.
GoCubsGo
(32,083 posts)It rarely happens that way in real life. It only takes a fraction of a second for someone to turn, point his gun at you and shoot you. Can you accurately shoot someone's hand while he's coming at you in even a a couple of seconds? I don't know of anyone who can. It takes most people longer than that to figure out what the hell is going on, let alone react to it.
Jean V. Dubois
(101 posts)It works if you're the Lone Ranger. If you're in the real world, not so much.