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Wed Apr 3, 2019, 06:51 PM

Good God almighty, where are we headed? (Rant)

I have not selected a candidate as yet, but the nonsense that is going on about Joe Biden is making me terribly angry.

I am "old school", a 71 year-old woman. I was young and pretty good looking when the sexual revolution took place and women found birth control pills could allow them as much sex as the guys. We went to bars and night clubs hunting for "Mr. Goodbar". And, oh, the pickup lines and moves guys made back then.

I was a 'feminist' way back in the early 1970s and active in NOW. I faced real discrimination, in wages, mortgages, credit, promotions, etc. I had men force themselves on me and I handled them on my own. I truly believe the women of #metoo. I'm glad younger women do not put up with the crap I did.

However, it appears we are erasing our humanity at an alarming pace. There was a thread a couple of weeks ago about automation as progress. Some love self-checkout and buying anonymously online. I posted why I think we've lost a piece of ourselves here: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11949106

I feel the same about someone, including strangers, touching. I'm appalled that kindergarten teachers can no longer hug and comfort an upset child. I know that the level of nurses' compassion has dropped greatly over time. I can compare the care, concern, and comfort exhibited during my hysterectomy surgery in 1988 and that displayed during my cancer surgery in 2008. The latter was so bad, I told my doctor to either release me early or I would jump from the fifth floor window. He released me and I swore I'd die before ever going back in that hospital.

People here are condemning anyone who touches them as if it were a violent crime. If one is uncomfortable, they have the right to remove a hand or to say "stop", but give me a break. I love pats, hugs, a hand on my arm or a kiss on my cheek.

Are we going to be a society totally isolated from our humanity? We will soon only speak to machines and have no human contact expect for our immediate families. I would love to have an unsolicited hug from Joe Biden or Al Franken. I welcomed the hugs I've received in foreign countries and hope they continue to my dying days.

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Reply Good God almighty, where are we headed? (Rant) (Original post)
sinkingfeeling Apr 2019 OP
eShirl Apr 2019 #1
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #2
LonePirate Apr 2019 #3
Baclava Apr 2019 #7
louis c Apr 2019 #18
Control-Z Apr 2019 #37
louis c Apr 2019 #38
Skidmore Apr 2019 #55
Control-Z Apr 2019 #70
nocoincidences Apr 2019 #4
lunatica Apr 2019 #5
Amaryllis Apr 2019 #21
The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #6
Ferrets are Cool Apr 2019 #65
Guilded Lilly Apr 2019 #8
Atticus Apr 2019 #9
Ligyron Apr 2019 #26
redstatebluegirl Apr 2019 #10
highplainsdem Apr 2019 #11
Silver Gaia Apr 2019 #12
njhoneybadger Apr 2019 #13
Honeycombe8 Apr 2019 #14
yardwork Apr 2019 #15
Dan Apr 2019 #16
Ruby the Liberal Apr 2019 #17
Alliepoo Apr 2019 #19
bhikkhu Apr 2019 #20
Grasswire2 Apr 2019 #49
zentrum Apr 2019 #22
sinkingfeeling Apr 2019 #23
crimycarny Apr 2019 #29
zentrum Apr 2019 #43
Demit Apr 2019 #33
zentrum Apr 2019 #44
Demit Apr 2019 #45
StarryNite Apr 2019 #24
KPN Apr 2019 #25
Sparkly Apr 2019 #27
SlogginThroughIt Apr 2019 #41
WheelWalker Apr 2019 #28
EveHammond13 Apr 2019 #30
bitterross Apr 2019 #31
c-rational Apr 2019 #32
KY_EnviroGuy Apr 2019 #34
sinkingfeeling Apr 2019 #35
DFW Apr 2019 #40
True Blue American Apr 2019 #76
demigoddess Apr 2019 #36
Boomerproud Apr 2019 #46
HAB911 Apr 2019 #39
we can do it Apr 2019 #42
sabrams Apr 2019 #47
USALiberal Apr 2019 #48
MadDAsHell Apr 2019 #50
Mme. Defarge Apr 2019 #51
Mz Pip Apr 2019 #52
samplegirl Apr 2019 #53
BobTheSubgenius Apr 2019 #54
LibDemAlways Apr 2019 #56
mudstump Apr 2019 #57
Different Drummer Apr 2019 #58
Cha Apr 2019 #59
Karadeniz Apr 2019 #60
suffragette Apr 2019 #61
saljr1 Apr 2019 #62
Ferrets are Cool Apr 2019 #63
Cha Apr 2019 #64
Evolve Dammit Apr 2019 #66
PatrickforO Apr 2019 #67
lambchopp59 Apr 2019 #68
lambchopp59 Apr 2019 #69
Horse with no Name Apr 2019 #71
starphlo Apr 2019 #72
sinkingfeeling Apr 2019 #73
starphlo Apr 2019 #78
912gdm Apr 2019 #74
jrellis Apr 2019 #75
Nitram Apr 2019 #77

Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 06:53 PM

1. "People here are condemning anyone who touches them as if it were a violent crime."

stop

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 06:58 PM

2. Headed toward finding out our military readiness is going to be zero for decades because the amount

... of secrets Putin's Whore and the Kremlin KKKlan let out to the Russians et al

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 07:04 PM

3. The Biden story is being propelled by someone who thinks it will benefit them.

Whether Republican(s) or someone else is behind it, I do not know. However, I am worried about the 2020 Dem primary taking a turn to resemble the 2016 Dem primary.

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 07:18 PM

7. My money is on Beto or Bernie, can i say that here?

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Response to Baclava (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 08:02 PM

18. I wouldn't rule out Kamala

 

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Response to louis c (Reply #18)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 02:18 AM

37. Do you have a reason to state such nonsense? eom

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #37)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 06:58 AM

38. Just a feeling I have...

 

...Kamala makes me feel "uncomfortable". Isn't that enough?

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Response to louis c (Reply #38)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 01:53 PM

55. I'll bet she does. nt

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Response to louis c (Reply #38)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 10:28 PM

70. Ah. So successful people

make you uncomfortable. I get it. Actually I don't but I accept it.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 07:12 PM

4. You just described me,

from the age to the Feminist history.

I just don't see women as fragile. They are so much more.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 07:13 PM

5. I'm 70 and experienced what you did and I agree with you

I absolutely knew even then the difference between being groped and being hugged. This entire thing is getting insane!

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Response to lunatica (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 08:11 PM

21. I'm also 70 & have expereinced both; the difference is very clear. Another thing

that is sad is it used to be okay for a teacher to put a reassuring hand on a kid's shoulder, or for a little one to come for a hug or hold your hand on the playground. I watched all that change as well.

And I had a great, happily married boss who used to notice things like a new haircut and compliment an employee go to feeling like that wasn't safe any longer.

I don't know what the answer is but there has to be a better way so we are not sacrificing our humanity in the process.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 07:15 PM

6. Frank Bruni made a good point in this op-ed:

It’s nonnegotiable that Democrats hold their presidential aspirants to high standards on issues of racial justice, gender equality and more. It’s crucial that the party nominate someone who can credibly represent its proudly diverse ranks. But it’s also important that the party not demand a degree of purity that nobody attains.

I’m not recommending the Republicans’ course in accepting and protecting Donald Trump, which was to bury principles so deep that they may never be exhumed. I’m saying that to turn the Democratic primary into a nonstop apology tour when the nominee will be going up against a president never expected to apologize for anything is a risky strategy. It obsesses over the flaws in candidates who have many strengths, defining them in terms of what they seek forgiveness for. It blurs the line between job interview and inquisition. Taken too far, it rips contenders to shreds before Trump even takes out his scissors.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/03/opinion/pete-buttigieg-joe-biden.html

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 06:24 PM

65. It is not only a risky strategy, it is a losing one. nt

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 07:20 PM

8. I SO hear you, sinkingfeeling...

Especially this:
“Are we going to be a society totally isolated from our humanity? We will soon only speak to machines and have no human contact expect for our immediate families.”

Some days, I fear for this.

There is a real risk of taking some of these very necessary and long overdue steps (#MeToo, etc) over a line and become so cold, suspicious and cynical that human comfort and compassion become archaic dinosaurs.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 07:26 PM

9. This 70 year old Male appreciates your post and agrees that we are in the verge of losing

something precious: the ability to comfort, encourage, console or calm each other---by touching.

Certainly, we must always observe each other's limits as to what is okay, but it seems that what might be intended as a pat on the back may soon be condemned as "groping".

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Response to Atticus (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 09:10 PM

26. Oh, it already is.

Just ask Al Franken

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 07:28 PM

10. Thank you!

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 07:35 PM

11. I agree completely. K&R!

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 07:39 PM

12. I'm 65. I hear you loud and clear, and I agree!

I voiced similar thoughts on another thread a few days ago, and my experiences were very similar to yours. (I was a very outspoken young woman for my age when I was in junior high and high school. They suspended me many times mostly for just that, saying what I thought.) I agree with everything you said.

And for the record, my 38 year old daughter also agrees. We both support the "me too" movement, but it is being twisted, and things like this could easily cause a backlash that will destroy the progress that was made. This stuff stinks.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 07:40 PM

13. Please keep Ranting

You're making perfect sense

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 07:49 PM

14. I agree with you wholeheartedly, SinkingFeeling.

Some people are using the "me, too" movement to attack political opponents, get back at people for various reasons, or to get their 15 minutes of fame. It trivializes the real sexual harassment/abuse allegations and will result in people taking those serious claims seriously. We're all getting tired of hearing this crap.

I am a feminist. I have been assaulted in various ways in my life, so I take such things very seriously. But come on, people. "He made me feel uncomfortable when he put his hands on my shoulders and kissed the top of my head to comfort me"? Seriously? No, that's not serious. That's a political attack.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 07:51 PM

15. I'm almost 60, female, and I agree with everything in your post.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 07:59 PM

16. Love what you shared...

Same generation, and I there are real concerns in the search for purity.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 08:00 PM

17. Great comments

Agree completely.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 08:02 PM

19. Amen!!

Yes yes yes amen and yes!!!

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 08:11 PM

20. In my own case, being a mid 50's male, I agree with you

The whole thing just makes me sad. Just the other day I was thinking of how I'd gotten into the habit over the last 15 years or so of no physical contact. When I was younger there was all kinds of horseplay with friends. When I was 20-something there was all kind of non-sexual contact among my friends; hugs, rough-housing, a touch of the arm or holding hands just because, it was just normal physical stuff. When my kids were little we'd play together, comfort each other, snuggle, etc, there was no awkwardness or worry about it.

I'm not sure when things changed, at least for me...being older and male I guess made it a point to be politely absent or distant when my daughters had friends over, once they were teenagers. And then drifted away from some other friends after a more or less amicable divorce. But...I can say that I've had physical contact with exactly two people in the past 8 months. My neighbor at thanksgiving, who we do a big dinner with every year and I cook the turkey. She gave me a brief hug when I came in the door and sat the turkey down. And then my daughter, who I hugged when she moved away for college. That's pretty much it, and pretty much the norm. It's kind of a cold world. I believe the women who complained about Biden, but that doesn't mean I think the world wouldn't be a healthier place with a whole lot more men like Biden.

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #20)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 11:50 AM

49. awwwwwwwww....

C'mere, you big lug. Here's a virtual hug. Unapologetic and enthusiastic.

Maybe we need a HUG topic on DU.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 08:20 PM

22. It's not that simple.

When your boss or a powerful man with influence over your career or your recommendations or your inclusions in meetings --starts breathing on you and squeezing you and kissing your hair---you are confused.

Is he coming onto you? Is this an invitation to an affair?

Of course--you can say "no" and you certainly aren't going to have an affair---but you have to remain silent and just manage him.

As a young woman I remember years of avoiding getting into the elevator with my boss. Being happy and smiling and just managing him so that I would not create a passive-aggressive work environment for myself. Power differentials usually work in only one direction.

You can only say a direct "no" if you have nothing to lose. Nothing at stake.

It shouldn't be on the woman to have to defend her person space anyway. To say it's on her is sort of like asking a true rape victim, why was she out so late or why was she dressed like that. As if the problem is on her to solve.

Women don't do this to men unless they are coming on to them. I shouldn't have to say "no" if the man didn't see it as his unspoken privilege to enter my space like that.

This is about privilege, not sexual harrasment. It shouldn't be tolerated.

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Response to zentrum (Reply #22)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 08:38 PM

23. I disagree. I was a woman in a large corporation with a 500 to 1

ratio of men to women. I never had a female superior. I probably turned down advances from a dozen male managers. I still had a successful 30 year career in that corporation.
You most certainly can say "no". I would think it
would be much easier to do so in today's work environment than it was 40 years ago since almost every company is aware of sexual harrasment and HR frowns on it.
I have touched male workers, including hugging them in consolation or congratulations.
Maybe younger women need assertiveness training on how to achieve a power balance in the work place.

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Response to zentrum (Reply #22)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 09:25 PM

29. I respectfully disagree

I disagree that you shouldn't have to say "no" to a man making unwanted advances or entering your space. Why in the world not? It doesn't make any sense to me why anyone, woman or man, shouldn't feel it's their right and responsibility to speak up if someone invades their space??

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Response to crimycarny (Reply #29)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 09:08 AM

43. Of course you can say "no".

But you shouldn't be put in the position of having to do that.

It's more about the meta. That's why it's called a micro-aggression.

Biden finally said it himself in one of his apologies: "It was my responsibility."

He's finally starting to grok that the burden was completely on him. She shouldn't have to say "no" to have integrity of space. it's not up to the women to have to be constantly vigilant about personal space.

To quote a recent Huffpo article by somebody named Stapp:

"A woman can hardly be seen as strong, powerful and intelligent minutes after 'Papa Joe' rubs noses with her or kisses her on the top of her head like an infant," Stapp said. It is damaging to her credibility as a leader.


The same writer goes on to say that nobody is coming up behind Pelosi or McConnell and kissing them on the top of the head.

Body language is a powerful communication between we mammals, after all.

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Response to zentrum (Reply #22)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 09:52 PM

33. I agree with you. Especially about how men see it as an unspoken privilege to touch women.

 

It's a tacit denial of equality: Joe Biden got to decide who he touched, and how, and for how long. He never gave a thought to how presumptuous an action that is. I wonder if he understands it now.

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Response to Demit (Reply #33)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 09:14 AM

44. That's it exactly.

I have a question----do you find his rather bad eye lift discombobulating on some level?

Eye lifts are unusual in men. Who is the real Joe that he felt he had to do this? Or is that sexist of me? Shouldn't men be able to get the same plastic surgery that women do?

Have been thinking about this since he first got it done, at least five years ago.

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Response to zentrum (Reply #44)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 09:29 AM

45. Are you old enough to remember when he got hair plugs for his receding hairline?

 

I didn't know about the eye lift, but he's definitely not shy about improving his appearance.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 08:51 PM

24. Our humanity is dying.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 09:00 PM

25. Nice rant. Thank God and thank you for it. We really need to hear this. Nobody is perfect to

begin with. When as a society we lose a distinction between actual sexual harassment and every individual's threshold for what feels personally "uncomfortable", we might as well stop interacting. Because at that point, we have set a standard that over the course of one's basic interactions in life is impossible to achieve.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 09:20 PM

27. I hear you, but...

... maybe it's time we just elect a woman and move on to the chapter we REALLY need to get on to, and then resolve these other matters. It's hard for a country to go along for hundreds of years with half its citizens denied a equal voice...

We're just way past due, imho.

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Response to Sparkly (Reply #27)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:48 AM

41. We elected a black man.

And things are terrible right now. that isn’t to say that we shouldn’t have elected Ibama but that isn’t going to fix things and that shouldn’t be the focus of why we elect who we elect. Barrack won because he was a great leader. Our next president needs to be elected for the same reason.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 09:23 PM

28. Right fucking on !

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 09:40 PM

30. K&R

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 09:40 PM

31. Thank you. This needed to be said.

It really needed to come from a woman who can speak with authority and experience.

As a mid-50s male I agree with you. I love pats, hugs and kisses.

Studies have shown there are positive effects of humans touching one another. Those positive effects include greater compassion and trust. I can't think of anything we need more right now than greater compassion for one another.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 09:49 PM

32. Thank you. Love your post and completely agree with your common sense assessment of

human interaction.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 10:05 PM

34. Memo to the GOP.....

Stop being hypocrites. No more hugging, long handshakes or shoulder pats in church.........

Agree with you 100%, sinkingfeeling. We must not allow ourselves to become cold, emotion-free concrete robots. I was raised in a very compassionate, emotional environment by folks that went through the Depression under worst conditions. Communities were very close, with lots of hugs and shoulder pats especially in hard times. Nowadays, we're seeing the very fabric of our communities being ripped apart by huge corporations like Walmart and Amazon and right-wing political forces.

What few seem to be aware of is that the world's cold-hearted plutocrats want and encourage a divided, suspicious, fearful populace so they can totally control our lives. They do that by promoting rampant consumerism, high personal debt and by funding thousands of far right-wing causes like the GOP and UK''s Tories and their mad causes like Brexit, ALEC, Fox Network and talk radio, etc. State actors in Russia, Brazil and other nations now fan the flames via our free media.

I can feel the divisiveness, hatred and fear more recently in conversations with friends and family. There's more smart-ass, snark and negative comments between people than I've ever seen, with much less old-fashioned warm, loving chats sitting at the kitchen table.

I fear this will continue and only get worse so long as extreme economic inequality continues (and, it's getting worse).

Good rant, now mine is done too.......

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Response to KY_EnviroGuy (Reply #34)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 10:10 PM

35. Yes, old-fashioned warmth. It's what Joe Biden, Al Franken, and

Barrack Obama possess. Apparently , some DUers would prefer the robot.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #35)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:30 AM

40. My consolation on that point

The ones that "prefer the robot," as you put it, are a small (though very vocal) minority with seemingly one issue and one only on their minds. They vigorously (almost nastily) defend their positions, and at least on the primaries board (which I refuse to post in until and if it gets serious), support one of two candidates, both of which seem to enjoy Papal infallibility in some circles.

I have been with Biden, Franken and Obama on occasion, and you described them accurately. Not once did I see them make any advances to anyone, male or female, and nor did anyone, male or female, express discomfort at their conduct, during or after. That the primaries board seems to have lost its collective head over a Joe Biden accuser five or more years after a supposed incident in a very public arena seems like a fire that is deliberately being stoked. What Joe Biden is doing on the primaries board, since he is not a candidate yet in the first place, is a mystery to me, anyway. Sure, there is speculation. There is speculation about Hillary running again, too. Might as well include Pat Paulsen.

Doesn't ANYBODY posting on that board care one whit about POLICY? I mean beyond the usual tax the rich, etc. Remember climate change, foreign policy, military policy, education, trade, agriculture, race relations, criminal justice, the Supreme Court, affordable health care, student debt and affordable housing? No, all there is to read is about whether or not Joe Biden apologized sufficiently for something he never thought he did, and whether this candidate or that candidate spoke to 500 people in Pascagoula and whether or not they had broccoli for breakfast. Too bad the moderators and/or administrators of DU can't make "get a life" one of the requirements to post on that board instead of "thou shalt state a preference or thou shalt not post."

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #35)

Fri Apr 5, 2019, 11:23 PM

76. Agree on that!

I consider Democrats to be caring, loving and understanding, but seems that may not be true.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 11:00 PM

36. I am a 71 year old female who grew up without a lot of touching

but Biden can hug me anytime. He is being taken down by the opposition for being a loving human because they know many people will hold to these accusations and drive out anybody who is accused. See Franken and now Biden. It is an easy way to take out the opposition who hold people to higher standards.they use that to kill us.

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Response to demigoddess (Reply #36)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 09:55 AM

46. It's all political.

NT

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:11 AM

39. K&R

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 08:30 AM

42. Same here.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 11:41 AM

47. I agree

I am a 65-year-old man.
When I started working as a professional in the 70's it was common for my co-workers to greet each at the start of the day with a hug. We noticed when someone changed their look. When one of us was going through a rough time a touch of support was normal. There were some who did not like hugs, and we all respected that.

When I left the corporate world it got to the point that I was not allowed to do anything more than a handshake for my employees. If a female employee changed her hairstyle or got a new outfit, I could not even acknowledge it.

Today men are being castigated for behavior that for many years not only OK but appreciated.

I think the vast majority of people can tell the difference between a sexual advance and a supportive touch or comment.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 11:45 AM

48. Your automation point is silly, people of complained about automation forever. You....

Can’t stop progress and you shouldn’t!!

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:34 PM

50. The cat's out of the bag. We've been marching with "believe women" signs for decades.

 

There hasn't ever been a standard on what is to be believed or who is to be believed, and I'm not sure there's going to be one now. The cat's not going back in the bag.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:51 PM

51. Moi aussi!

Same age, same sex, same experiences, same reactions,

Awhile back my neighbor’s adorable 3-year-old son knocked on my door all by himself - his dad was nearby working on something in his garage. He wanted to come in and see my kitties. I hesitated, but let him come in for a very brief visit, then escorted him outside to take him to dad. I felt uncomfortable being alone with him, as ridiculous and sad as that sounds.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:52 PM

52. I'm from the same generation.

My take on this is much the same. I doubt it was Joe’s intention to make anyone feel uncomfortable.

And perhaps if more of these women who were so uncomfortable by his affection had just told him to knock it off he more than likely would have done so.

Back away, leave the room, just say “Stop” are pretty affective when the guy doesn’t have bad intentions.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:56 PM

53. What's most upsetting is the

other democrats running all to eager to throw Biden to the wolves. Makes my decision get easier!

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 01:48 PM

54. My wife's career was with the BGA.

About 30 years with the Boys and Girls Club. She worked at every level of the organization (not every job, obviously), from unpaid intern as a college practicum, to Director of a flagship unit in Florida.

She is an incredibly caring person who can be FIERCE in her protection of children, or really anyone that needs it, but especially children. The new realities of this over-sensitive, over confrontational attitudes that have risen made her sad, in many ways.

She had to tell employees that, no matter WHAT, you never put your hands on a child, except to protect iife and limb. No comforting, no "Congratulations!" Never, not at all, no matter how pure the motives or innocuous the circumstances.

The consequence was immediate termination, no appeal, no second chance.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 02:17 PM

56. I think a hug from a family member or good friend

is a wonderful thing. A compassionate touch on the hand from a doctor or nurse is a welcome display of humanity. And by all means a teacher ought to be able to comfort a small child. Where I draw the line, however, is unsolicited touching from someone I don't know well. I would not want a man other than my husband sniffing or running his hands through my hair, nor would I want him kissing the top of my head, putting his arms around me, or engaging in any overly familiar displays of affection. It has nothing to do with me being inhuman or a robot. It has everything to do with expecting others to respect my personal space as I respect theirs. I'm glad Biden is rethinking his touchy feely ways. Consent is the key. An "Is it ok if I give you a hug?" takes only a second and assures that both parties remain in their comfort zone.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 03:01 PM

57. I'll be 62 this year and....

I've lost count of all the times a boy or man has been inappropriate with me. Now that I'm older these things have stopped. I guess it's one of the perks of becoming an older woman. I have been pinched and slapped on the butt and I just dealt with it in my own way. I have also been sexually assaulted which was a much more serious matter. When people raise a "hand-on-the-shoulder" to the assault level it diminishes real unwanted sexual advances that are very serious. Let's use our heads and critical thinking skills to see the difference.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 03:18 PM

58. "As a mid-50s male I agree with you. I love pats, hugs and kisses." -bitterross

This for me. Exactly.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 04:50 PM

59. I very much Appreciate your

Rant, sinkingfeeling!

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 04:52 PM

60. Agree completely!. Had you noticed that men are becoming more demonstrative with

One another? It's commonplace now to see two men approach each other, shake hands, then draw themselves into a hug with back patting. Good for them. They're learning nonsexual-advance contact. Maybe in time we women won't interpret every male contact as sexual. Al was joking around in his raunchy humor way. Joe isn't looking for a sex partner.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 05:03 PM

61. Completely agree. There's a distance and isolation from one another that is growing and I think

you are correct about that isolating ourselves from our humanity.

I was just reading an article about the growth in cashless retail operations and concerns from community groups about how this will impact those who are poor since they need to be able to use cash. Yet another barrier to overcome for those who aren’t as well off and yet another wall keeping those who are well off from daily type of interaction (and perhaps better understanding) with someone in different circumstances.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 05:13 PM

62. Great post. I know those times very well because I lived it as you did.

I don't how many times I have heard people and friends in my lifetime say or just convey non-verbally " I need a hug today". I think I recognize those moments and I will continue to be just human.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 05:44 PM

63. Thank you so much for your "rant"

It is heartfelt and straight to the point. Here is a friendly "hug" from me.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 06:08 PM

64. KICK!

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 06:43 PM

66. You're not so much "old school" as a genuine human being. Thanks

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 06:52 PM

67. It's no wonder many conservatives think we liberals are stupid.

Sadly, in some significant ways, we are.

This situation, for instance, is absurd. Biden is clearly, CLEARLY being smeared.

And, if we find out who did it and it is a Republican, let's broadcast that far and wide.

If we find out who did it and it is a Democrat, or one of their surrogates, they won't be getting my vote in the primaries, just my opposition.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:31 PM

68. My two cents on, esp. US culture

From the advent on of the automobile, the belief that the car is a symbol of social superiority. Many car drivers still consider themselves superior to those who use a less powerful form of transport or a less prestigious type of car. Once behind the wheel of a car, the driver is often - for himself and for others - no longer just the ‘man in the street’. He demands and is given priority, which implies superiority and sets him apart from cyclists and pedestrians.

I've observed as family, friends, neighbors, and acquaintances adopt a new, uptight narcissism upon purchasing a new car, the bigger more powerful or pretentious, the worse they behave. The bullies, upon obtaining some ridiculously jacked-up pickem-up truck became more tyrannical than ever. My neighbor has become a Cadillac-widow ever since her husband bought the new, towering, intimidating "Escalade", it's been nearly a year now, and his insufferable abject snobbery still hasn't waned, and my SMART car driving self no longer rates for even casual greetings or a wave, just a nose up drive by.
Topping the prestige cake is the usurping of the term "entitlement" by the right wing screwballs to kick around the fortuneless.
My own diatribe here doesn't even begin to address the impractical, selfish nature of driving gas-hoggs in our environmental blight, yet there is the most explosive of "protected rights" especially from the RWNJ's you don't want to hear. Again.
Contrasting this where "We're all in the same boat"-ism prevails in urban environments where only some exceptionally accessible situation affords a private car commute. Public transit has a great equalizing effect to some extent, but the further from deep urban areas this gets misunderstood.
Now my statement here gets a bit tongue in cheek-- but those who know realize getting used to some unwanted contact, blowing it off as, hey it's rush hour... only goes over the top when some objectionably odoriferous, perhaps homeless individual "assaults".
I don't miss the days when "express lane" meant a half hour's wait as opposed to one hour's. Next person, a bit of annoyance with the person having difficulty working the PIN pad correctly, then beep, beep, beep, receipt, out, done and home represents progress I can live with.
My own mother was touch-phobic. She complained ad nauseum about the "touchy-feely" sort. This frigidity came from her pseudo-religious mother, and in our family has become far better. My brothers, cousins unabashedly hug at the airport coming and going that would have elicited scowls from grammy. This is considered unwelcome contact, and gets deflected by our family's doctorate-degree holder, and is glaringly evident in casual on-line communiques as well. They are "doctors" and us proletariat family must have an "appointment".
Precisely the syndrome I see in those who buy the overblown new vehicle.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:34 PM

69. My two cents

From the advent of the automobile, the belief that the car is a symbol of social superiority. Many car drivers still consider themselves superior to those who use a less powerful form of transport or a less prestigious type of car. Once behind the wheel of a car, the driver is often - for himself and for others - no longer just the ‘man in the street’. He demands and is given priority, which implies superiority and sets him apart from cyclists and pedestrians.

I've observed as family, friends, neighbors, and acquaintances adopt a new, uptight narcissism upon purchasing a new car, the bigger more powerful or pretentious, the worse they behave. The bullies, upon obtaining some ridiculously jacked-up pickem-up truck became more tyrannical than ever. My neighbor has become a Cadillac-widow ever since her husband bought the new, towering, intimidating "Escalade", it's been nearly a year now, and his insufferable abject snobbery still hasn't waned, and my SMART car driving self no longer rates for even casual greetings or a wave, just a nose up drive by.
Topping the prestige cake is the usurping of the term "entitlement" by the right wing screwballs to kick around the fortuneless.
My own diatribe here doesn't even begin to address the impractical, selfish nature of driving gas-hoggs in our environmental blight, yet rates among the most explosive of "protected rights" especially from the RWNJ's you don't want to hear. Again.
Contrasting this where "We're all in the same boat"-ism prevails in urban environments where only some exceptionally accessible situation affords a private car commute. Public transit has a great equalizing effect to some extent, but the further from deep urban areas this gets misunderstood.
Now my statement here gets a bit tongue in cheek-- but those who know realize getting used to some unwanted contact, blowing it off as, hey it's rush hour... only goes over the top when some objectionably odoriferous, perhaps homeless individual "assaults".
I don't miss the days when "express lane" meant a half hour's wait as opposed to one hour's. Next person, a bit of annoyance with the person having difficulty working the PIN pad correctly, then beep, beep, beep, receipt, out, done and home represents progress I can live with.
My own mother was touch-phobic. She complained ad nauseum about the "touchy-feely" sort. This frigidity came from her pseudo-religious mother, and in our family has become far better. My brothers, cousins unabashedly hug at the airport coming and going that would have elicited scowls from grammy. This is considered unwelcome contact, and gets deflected by our family's doctorate-degree holder, and is glaringly evident in casual on-line communiques as well. They are "doctors" and us proletariat family must have an "appointment".
Precisely the syndrome I see in those who buy the overblown new vehicle.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 10:35 PM

71. One of my favorite bosses is of the Biden age

And he is touchy feely etc. we all know he is harmless and he doesn’t bother any of us...but he is one step away from a #metoo moment with someone who isn’t familiar with him.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 11:37 PM

72. I can't agree

I am in my 50s and do not like being hugged, kissed, rubbed....I went to a new chiropractor last week who lingered a little too long with his hands and made me very uncomfortable. I should not have to say "NO" to every creepy guy who wants to cop a feel. Biden was inappropriate IMO. It seems that women who are older have more tolerance for male liberties. It is not okay... and there is a big difference between light friendly touches and the ones that make you uncomfortable and linger too long. Biden clearly is lingering.

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Response to starphlo (Reply #72)

Fri Apr 5, 2019, 06:37 AM

73. I feel sorry for persons who interpret all human touch as sexual advances.

My post wasn't speaking of only men. I do miss the easy, free interaction of human touch that still exists in many other countries, but has been replaced in the US with accusations of impropriety.

What did you say to your doctor?

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #73)

Wed Apr 10, 2019, 10:13 PM

78. I didn't say anything

to the doctor but I won't go back.
I can't think of any women who have ever touched me and made me uncomfortable but there have been a lot of men.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2019, 06:45 AM

74. I usually dont read posts marked as "rant"

but Im glad I read yours. I completely agree.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Fri Apr 5, 2019, 10:52 PM

75. me2

 

i'd love a hug from al franken too.
its too bad he didn't have the support of the people
because nobody is going to support them now

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Original post)

Sun Apr 7, 2019, 03:10 PM

77. Different people have different reactions to being hugged. Some people are huggers and others aren't

People who are uncomfortable being hugged should find appropriate strategies for preventing people from hugging them, and/or should explain in no uncertain terms that they do not want to be hugged, have a man place his hand on their shoulder or back, or kiss them. Huggers should respect that and apologize. As a society we need to find better ways to get along without condemning those who are more demonstrative in their interactions with others.

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