Serious question - why are some folks complaining of the Dem's so called

[malaise]

spinelessness not paid up members of DU?

pardon my paranoia but I an very wary of the divide and rule tactic.
P.S. I don't mean long time DUers who may be low on funds.

[ProudLib72]

1. Aha! Something is amiss here!

I'm not paid up, but I'm not fussing either. Not into the division.

[malaise]

2. You've been here a while

[ProudLib72]

6. I had to vent after November 2016

I gravitated to DU.

[Zoonart]

3. Nice catch.

[malaise]

4. Hi there

[Ms. Toad]

5. There are other reasons.

I've been a paying member in the past. But I'm fed up with body shaming, with homophobic and trans "jokes" being repeatedly left standing by juries - and having no effective recourse becuase any time I suggest that a particular post is offensive I get a slew of responses to the effect that:

With trump, all tactics are fair tactics
You're taking it the wrong way/you're too thin-skinned/I didn't mean it that way - you're a "good" gay.

I really don't feel like funding a place that seems to go out of its way to let me know I'm unwelcome.

I can't speak to the particular posters to whom you are referring - but there are reasons beyond being low on funds for not becoming a paid member.

[malaise]

7. You are a long time member of DU

and I do get the reasons you stated for not being a paid member.

This OP does not apply to people who have been here a while.

[Ms. Toad]

12. I was just addressing whether payment status is a valid indicator

of whether someone is a troll or not, regardless of duration of participation or ability to pay.

[Marrah_Goodman]

35. You can't always tell who is a longtime member

I am not a paid member because I have fallen on hard times. Also, regardless of my join date and post count I've been around since 2004, but i had to make a new account.

I guess what I am saying is that there is no way to be sure.

[malaise]

38. Yep - that's true for many who had to start new accounts after the crash on election night

but most returned in 2016 or 17 - thats more than two years ago.

[JonAndKatePlusABird]

8. Yup

I haven't been here nearly as long as others, but it's certainly.... Interesting..... That any time there's an issue that is cause for internal debate, a whole bunch of posters I've never seen seem to crawl out of the woodwork.

It's almost like as if there were people posting here that aren't in fact concerned Democrats...

[malaise]

10. Love your user name

and you've been here a while

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

9. I don't think Grovelbot accepts Rubles.

Or Renminbi/yuan.

[malaise]

11. You win the thread

[Ron Obvious]

13. Ever consider you might have cause and effect reversed?

Those of us tired of the current level of discussion on DU either don't contribute, or (like me) let their subscriptions lapse.

[malaise]

14. But you are still long time members

I get that there are other factors that explain why folks don't contribute or let subscriptions lapse.

[murielm99]

15. I stopped paying for a while.

I was alert stalked for criticizing someone who ran in the last election. For a while, I could not post. Why should I pay if I am being silenced?

I think things have improved a bit. Either that, or I am better at walking on eggshells.

I use the website. Therefore, I should pay my fair share. I do.

[SWBTATTReg]

16. I pay, not for myself in reality, but to support the cost of keeping this website (DU) up and ...

running. There literally aren't very many websites that offer the whole thing, and I mean literally the whole thing, recipes, things about certain stuff and / or places, lots of other topics, as well of course democratic policies, discussions of such, and candidates. I'd be hard pressed to find a site that offers so much.

[safeinOhio]

17. I'm just happy they don't beg.

That might kill it for me. No problem pulling my weight and not see ads. I never liked the jury system, so I don't participate in it. Once a year I might alert on a post. I get alerted on about once a year.
Other than that, I find a lot of like minded folks here. Every family has at least one crazy aunt or uncle.

[malaise]

41. I pay not to see ads

[Yonnie3]

18. I don't know.

The whiny concern of some grinds on my resolve. I bite my tongue (fingers actually) not to tell them to eff off. If their purpose is to break my resolve, they are failing. This grinding only serves to sharpen my resolve.

Some of them are, perhaps, only dispirited and venting. They are indirectly seeking reassurance that what they say is wrong. I saw a few that seemed to come around after it was explained to them, but only a few.

It is really difficult to assign motives to strangers on the internet. Are they operatives on a mission or are they just idiots seeking attention? Some bad actors on DU have bought stars in the hope it would help their credibility, so the absence of a star isn't much of an indicator.

For these posters I try to just go tsk, tsk, and scroll on by and hope my fellow DUers are strong. I am not a tactful person by nature so I don't respond. I also use the alert function if the post is too much.

As to paranoia, even paranoids can have people out to get them

[malaise]

19. I like this post

very much

[Yonnie3]

20. I have a fever...

It makes me think expansively, don't expect this every day.

There was a paragraph about why those posters are still here, but I felt it was a TOS violation.

[malaise]

21. Like you I check myself all the time

Don''t want any more TOS violations

[Beartracks]

39. "indirectly seeking assurance that what they say is wrong"

I understand a lot of posts here to be exactly that sort of thing. Too many of them often get shot down as "concern trolls," however.

========

[GetRidOfThem]

22. I pay...

And I also don't think I am stepping on anybody's feet. I love this site - it is sanity-saving

Hey, does anybody remember the Whitehouse.com site during the Bush years? Also a sanity-saver...

[James48]

23. Wait! What??

Um, I donate and become a “star member” every once in a while, but I must have missed the page with “subscription fees”.

What does it cost, and where do I find that?

[malaise]

24. You've been here so long you don't know the rules

were changed

[PoliWrangler]

25. Kind of on topic - appreciate the low key sales approach

I've read DU for awhile and signed up last fall, but until this OP thread never thought how to be a paid member. Found it not quite buried away in the My Account section. But that's for a Star Membership, am I already a member? Might have missed the rules of the road orientation but I wouldn't be bothered by an occasional "ask" to become a Star Member. Or a (seasonal?) upgrade button on main pages.

[guillaumeb]

32. Star members have a star next to their name.

And one benefit is that there are no ads.

[PoliWrangler]

40. thanks gillaumeb

Think I got me a star. Do think it would be okay to put an "ask" more upfront or on a scheduled promotion, if even just yearly.

[guillaumeb]

46. Glad to help.

You might want to go to the "Ask the Administrators" group on the main menu and ask that question.

Guill

[lpbk2713]

26. Thank you for pointing that out.

It needed saying.

[RandySF]

27. Some peple think Nancy has a magic wand and can grant all their wishes.

[Kurt V.]

28. Kick

[pdsimdars]

29. I think the most intelligent way to look at it is if those comments have merit or not.

Dems don't seem to have the same understanding the GOP does. Someone on their side says something and they stand up for them with vigor even if what they had said was stupid.
But this latest flap with Omar was a clear hit job. It was clear from the context. They took a clip and then put their framing on it and put out this whole ugly lie about her.
I saw a Democratic congressman on TV talking about how he felt personally "hurt" by what she said. He fell right into their framing, their trap. He should have looked at the whole thing for himself and he should have seen what she had said. But he didn't. He ignored his own "family" and fell right into the baboons ravings against his own. That is actual spinelessness.
If people start making things up that are divisive, that's one thing, but if they are serious criticisms, they should be welcomed. You can't improve if you are not willing to look at yourself.
I think all the Democratic leadership should have been out there making points about the rise in anti-Muslim sentiment as Omar was saying.

[malaise]

42. Good post

[George II]

30. Yep, a lot of non-star members are griping about DU and Democrats. What's up with that?

[guillaumeb]

31. By spinelessness do they mean

that these Democrats do not do exactly what the complainers wish them to do?

That would amount to a difference of opinion about tactics.

[left-of-center2012]

33. "... some folks complaining ..."

I'm on DU multiple times a day.
(Being elderly and disabled my window on the world is the internet)

I've not seen all this complaining about which you post.

[Karadeniz]

34. I, too, tried and failed to find information on joining. I'll bet lots of us could use the info!

[lpbk2713]

37. How to become a star member ...

Click: https://www.democraticunderground.com/star

Thanks for your interest.

[Karadeniz]

69. Thank you!

[mr_lebowski]

36. All due respect, but I'm kinda pissed ATM about this tax thing ...

Hopefully I have earned the imprimatur, in your eyes, in some sense, to complain.

Neal already gave a deadline, and got blown off. Now he writes another letter, granting another 10 days, and is only asking for a DECISION from Rettig ... within 10 days?

Like ... there shouldn't be the OPTION of a f***ing DECISION?!?

The law is clear. There's NO DECISION INVOLVED HERE.

SOOOO, yeah ... sometimes Democrats in power ANNOY me with their apparent lack of urgency and what feels like an overly-conciliatory demeanor towards these f***ing criminals ... and I'm likely going to mention it, at least from time to time.

And I'd do that whether I'm a star member or not

[malaise]

43. If the returns aren't in on the 23rd I will be pissed

but Congress is in recess all of next week so I will be watching with interest.

[UniteFightBack]

45. I think giving them a little extra time is only going to help us when it comes time to bring down

that muthafucking hammer.

[blueinredohio]

52. Agreed

[UniteFightBack]

44. I think some people are genuinely pissed and tired of 'waiting' and false deadlines that pass

and they are not enforced. While I understand this I've countered it with, we are going to end up taking these fucks to court and we can show the court that we tried to work with them, gave ample time, gave fucking extra time and so forth.

So I think these steps are an evil necessity. These letters are protocol and they are for the record....there needs to be letters just like when a landlord is kicking your ass out, they have to send a certified letter whatever.

I think some shit is going to fly in 2 weeks time. After Easter, I suspect the next weekend Biden will get in and start hammering away and deadlines will be passing and it will be subpoena time.... their better fucking well be.

[BlueFlorida]

47. Non-paid members also pay

They pay by viewing and clicking on ads that are displayed on their pages. DU gets paid by per view and per click on those ads.

In my opinion, this is an unnecessary division.

[Bettie]

48. I'm paid up and I've been here a while

and I'm just so frustrated and frankly, losing hope that anything will be done.

I'm terribly afraid that they will get away with everything.

I have a kid graduating this year and one next year...I'm afraid that they will become adults in a dictatorship with an orange beast at the helm.

[malaise]

49. We are all frustrated

some are afraid but we're not attempting to divide

[Bettie]

51. I think the big problem is that

the constitution and rules of the congress were written with the assumption that people in congress would have basic ethics and enough character not to accept criminals involved at every level.

My frustration is with the system where there is no recourse, there is no enforcement mechanism for people who will simply ignore subpoenas, ignore the courts and do as they please no matter what happens.

[malaise]

55. Good post

that's why everyone is frustrated but I disagree with you re no recourse. I still expect the Con, his goons and enablers to be stopped.

[Bettie]

62. I hope they get stopped

but I fear that with their packing of the courts and owning the DOJ, they'll all skate.

I feel like we're about three steps from Dear Leader territory and getting closer every day.

[happybird]

50. I have a sort of on topic question

Been seeing more removed posts than usual the past couple of weeks (well, usual for the short time I've been here). I expect the trolls and agitators will only multiply the closer we get to the primary. Can't wait.

What do the different removal messages mean? There's three different ones, I think?
Post Removed, Name Removed, sometimes both of those together, and one other message I can't think of right now. I've been curious about what each one means/what infraction triggers which removal message?

[defacto7]

57. Post Removed means

The post was voted off by a jury decision. Name removed means the Malicious Intrusion team or the admins removed the user from the site. Another one comes up when a user deletes their own post.

[happybird]

59. Thanks! nt

[Doreen]

53. I have been here since 2016 and even though I can

not afford it I give money to both support DU and set it so if something happens like when the site went down because of trump I will be one of the ones who get to stay on.

[GP6971]

54. I recently had to take a break....

everything lately has been so depressing. To me a lot of the of the great posters are non-star members. To me it doesn't matter as long as they are objective and honest. If they could contribute, I'm sure they would and I value their opinions. Of course, there are a couple of long time, high post members that are non-star members and constantly stir the pot which I just ignore.

[akraven]

56. Paid up member here with always low funds.............

AND not in the least spineless!

[malaise]

58. LOL

I love DU

[Demit]

60. Out of curiosity, do you have a time period for what qualifies as being a long time DUer?

Or, put another way, at what length of somebody's membership do you start to feel paranoid about them?

I remember when I joined it was frowned on to mention low post count, or disparage what a poster said because they were new.

[malaise]

61. You know I wasn't sure I should post this OP because

there are lots of refreshing and interesting posts from many newbies. On the other hand in these dangerous times, I can't bear to see some of the divisive posts from some new comers.
The responses are interesting.

[Codeine]

64. To be fair, that was before we got swamped

by the denizens of the finest troll factories in all of St Petersburg.

[Raine]

63. I've been here a long time and donated off and on during that time

it's post like yours and others that discourage me from donating again. The finger pointing, paranoia, having to watch everything little word that a person posts makes me hesitant to donate my money. Lately my donations go to animal and environmental causes.

[SixString]

68. +1

[Poiuyt]

65. I only contributed to DU so that I could get more hearts on Valentines Day

It didn't work though.

[malaise]

70. Too funny

[mcar]

66. Good question

[betsuni]

67. "Why didn't/don't Dems stop _____ ?" is so 2016.

Nice people explain to them how government works, they don't listen, then go and complain about the same things again thinking anybody is going to be affected by their weak, rather spineless attempts to attack Democrats.