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Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:54 PM

The incivility is steadily increasing. I have noticed it in traffic, grocery shopping, etc.

The lack of slack for anyone who is in your way, not going fast enough, of other ethnicity, etc. is markedly more obvious than even a few years ago. If I were to go back further in time, the difference is even more pronounced. I remember when people largely obeyed traffic laws and wouldn't think of being uncivil in public (or private). They were also welcoming of persons of other faiths and colors.

Fox news viewers, Limbaugh/ Hannity/ Ingraham listeners will blame Obama and "democrat libruls", while others (like myself) will blame Trump for his rhetoric. So what do we do with that? The 24/7 bashing of anything "librul" on AM radio in the heartland, and Armed Services radio has taken a toll. It's largely all they get. Their side will argue the liberal media is equally biased, now even just "Fake News", and in defiance, go even to even more extreme (InfoWars, Brietbart, Q-Anon, etc.,) much of which is total misinformation and conspiracy-theories.

I am pretty well (and sadly) convinced that we are well into the divide that cannot be bridged. I just do not see how you fix this.
Optimism in rare supply. Sorry. Opinions welcomed.

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Reply The incivility is steadily increasing. I have noticed it in traffic, grocery shopping, etc. (Original post)
Evolve Dammit Apr 2019 OP
watoos Apr 2019 #1
magicarpet Apr 2019 #2
0rganism Apr 2019 #3
Evolve Dammit Apr 2019 #6
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2019 #27
Iggo Apr 2019 #46
theophilus Apr 2019 #49
Rambling Man Apr 2019 #51
0rganism Apr 2019 #4
Evolve Dammit Apr 2019 #5
dameatball Apr 2019 #7
Mariana Apr 2019 #10
paleotn Apr 2019 #21
llmart Apr 2019 #8
sacto95834 Apr 2019 #9
Evolve Dammit Apr 2019 #40
Mariana Apr 2019 #12
Evolve Dammit Apr 2019 #39
SuprstitionAintthWay Apr 2019 #58
Tipperary Apr 2019 #11
renate Apr 2019 #19
cwydro Apr 2019 #26
Crunchy Frog Apr 2019 #13
ripcord Apr 2019 #14
robbob Apr 2019 #22
Freddie Apr 2019 #53
Liberalhammer Apr 2019 #15
bdamomma Apr 2019 #31
Tiggeroshii Apr 2019 #16
Stonepounder Apr 2019 #17
llmart Apr 2019 #37
Evolve Dammit Apr 2019 #41
GulfCoast66 Apr 2019 #18
The_jackalope Apr 2019 #20
bdamomma Apr 2019 #32
cynatnite Apr 2019 #23
cwydro Apr 2019 #28
Evolve Dammit Apr 2019 #43
happybird Apr 2019 #33
aeromanKC Apr 2019 #24
GulfCoast66 Apr 2019 #25
The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #29
kairos12 Apr 2019 #30
VOX Apr 2019 #34
Evolve Dammit Apr 2019 #42
VOX Apr 2019 #45
Decoy of Fenris Apr 2019 #35
Evolve Dammit Apr 2019 #44
UTUSN Apr 2019 #36
Sentath Apr 2019 #38
Iggo Apr 2019 #47
Kaleva Apr 2019 #48
Evolve Dammit Apr 2019 #57
malaise Apr 2019 #50
LisaM Apr 2019 #52
Evolve Dammit Apr 2019 #56
Midnight Writer Apr 2019 #54
The Genealogist Apr 2019 #55
durablend Apr 2019 #59

Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:57 PM

1. If the lack of civility bothers you,

 

that's not the fault of the person being uncivil toward you.

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Response to watoos (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 06:00 PM

2. Oh ?

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Response to watoos (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 06:02 PM

3. really?

we'll just have to disagree on this one... civilly, of course.

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Response to watoos (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 07:11 PM

6. WTF are you talking about? It's OK to be an a-hole, etc.??

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Response to watoos (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 09:40 PM

27. What in the hell does THAT mean?

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Response to watoos (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:20 PM

46. Hmm.

:scratchinghead:

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Response to watoos (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:44 PM

49. How very Stoic of you. I assume that you mean

that while incivility is not optimum it does not have to cause bad feelings on our part. We remain civil and try to inculcate those values in a patient way while not letting a-holes make our lives less happy by, basically, paying them no mind? Odd to hear this argument today. But, hey.....

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Response to watoos (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:48 PM

51. riiiiight . . .

"Telling like it is?" Right?

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 06:07 PM

4. solidarity becomes increasingly important in times like these...

... but it, too, seems to be in short supply.

1/3 of the American population hates us and wants us dead if possible.
1/3 of the population is undecided and/or uncaring, waiting to see how events evolve or just ignoring the situation entirely
1/3 of the population is us, and certain social forces do everything they can to isolate and alienate us from one-another

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Response to 0rganism (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 07:08 PM

5. Thank you.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 07:29 PM

7. Not incivility towards me, but Monday, 4/15/19, in checkout line at Lowes (deep SW VA)

A smaller, somewhat frail 70ish guy was ahead of me in line. Apparently veterans qualify for some kind of discount and he gave the very polite sales clerk his pertinent information. Said he had served in the Air Force.
She replied "Thank you for your service." Good for her.
He mumbled something and then replied "Not everyone served. A lot of them were border jumpers. They were draft dodgers. We call them border jumpers."
She did not know what to say and concluded his sale.
He continued....."The worst President in the history of this country allowed them to come back in.(pause) That was Carter. Traitor Carter."
The little clerk had no idea what to say. The guy looked sickly and I had no desire to make his existence more miserable. I simply said to the clerk, "Gee, that guy must be fun to be around."

She just laughed and said, "We get a lot of that in here."

The point being: We have no way to change these type of people. Ain't gonna happen. And there are a lot of them.

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Response to dameatball (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 07:53 PM

10. Fox News watchers and RW radio listeners tend to obsess.

I suppose when they listen to that shit all day every day, they get to where they can't think about anything else. With some of them, it's just impossible to have a conversation about anything, without them turning it into Democrat bashing.

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Response to dameatball (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 08:56 PM

21. And yet...

they happily vote for cadet bone spurs. Go figure.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 07:33 PM

8. I agree with you, but this has been brewing since about early 1990's.

It seems to have started or at the very least been ramped up once Limbaugh got a slot on the radio.

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Response to llmart (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 07:44 PM

9. I believe

this all started with Newt Gingrich and his contract on America. We've had differences before, but it seemed when Gingrich came to power he made politics a blood sport. He didn't want his team to say anything good about Democrats.

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Response to sacto95834 (Reply #9)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:59 PM

40. That's about when it did start. I agree. Delay ("the Hammer") and the whole cabal. Blood sport.

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Response to llmart (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 08:01 PM

12. You know what's weird?

The first few years after Limbaugh got on the air, my father denounced him as a loon, and wouldn't listen to the show if you paid him. Now, whenever he isn't close to a teevee (watching Fox News, of course) he's listening to Limbaugh or one of his clones. My dad was always somewhat conservative, but he wasn't batshit the way he is now, the way they've made him be.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #12)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:58 PM

39. Wow. I remember when Limbaugh was "new" (late 80's) and would invariably piss me off. I'm sorry for

the loss. From loon to most watched. My brother was/is? an O'Reilly follower. Same idea. There is no discussion anymore. It's brainwashing, and it works.

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Response to llmart (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 01:17 PM

58. Interesting recent Atlantic article on this.

"We may be further down a path towards widespread violence than we realize."

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/01/charles-duhigg-american-anger/576424/


And yes, talk radio, Rush and his ilk, soon followed and manifested by Gingrich's and Delay's poisonous leadership in the House, and the advent of Fox "News" in 1996, were the drivers and sorry milestones in this national tragedy, as I see it.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 07:54 PM

11. I have not noticed that. I live in a rural area in the south. People are pretty nice to each other

 

around here...black, white, Hispanic...quite a mixed bag where I live.

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Response to Tipperary (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 08:45 PM

19. It genuinely makes me happy to hear that!

Definitely the opposite of what I would have expected from the rural South. That's really nice! And that'll teach me to make assumptions.

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Response to renate (Reply #19)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 09:39 PM

26. I also live in the south, in NC.

My home is in a rural area too, though Iím not far from a large city. My experience is the same.

People are generally courteous in traffic, ask if you want to go ahead of them in line at the store when you have just a few items, hold doors for each other...etc.

Iím planning a cross country trip, and itíll be interesting to see what itís like in a blue state on the west coast.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 08:07 PM

13. I fear that our country is in a toilet that's already been flushed.

We may be irreversibly heading into a septic tank or sewer, and things will likely continue to worsen.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 08:09 PM

14. One of my pet peeves is people who treat fast food workers like crap

I refuse to accept it from anyone, I have left people, including family, I was with standing at the register because they were rude to the counter help.

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Response to ripcord (Reply #14)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 09:06 PM

22. Ditto wait staff at a restaurant.

Iíve been on more then one first date where I knew within minutes that there wasnít going to be a second just based on the attitude my date projected towards our server.

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Response to robbob (Reply #22)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 04:01 PM

53. Yup

Eons ago I was a server. Anyone who treats servers, cashiers etc. like crap or condescending is a bad person, full stop.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 08:37 PM

15. Republicans are all Traitors

 

Conservatives are all traitors.

Fuck them all!

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Response to Liberalhammer (Reply #15)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 09:46 PM

31. I really hope

they choke on that money. They stole it from hard working middle class Americans, and screwing the poor. Shit.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 08:38 PM

16. I live in LA. What you describe has been the norm forever.

 

We are natural assholes.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 08:41 PM

17. One of my pet peeves is completely healthy people who park in handicapped slots because

they know that they aren't going to get tickets and they don't even think about the people who have handicapped stickers that a doctor and the DMV have agreed that they need.

I have a handicapped placard. I had to make a quick trip to the grocery today. All of the reserved handicapped slots were full. I took a closer look and over half of the slots were occupied by people with no handicapped plates of placard.

I really try to be civil to everyone, but I was sorely tempted to give the little old pink haired woman in her Cadillac who cut me off to get into the only handicapped slot open. Of course she had no right to park there, it was just close to the door and she felt entitled.

Grrrrrrrrr.

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Response to Stonepounder (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:11 AM

37. I feel for you.

I always feel that if you're not handicapped and you park in one of those slots you are tempting fate. I just could never do it.

However, I have a neighbor across the street from me who kept her mother-in-law's handicapped card after the woman died and uses it for herself now. She even brags about it and thinks she's clever. By the way, she could use the exercise from walking a little further.

AND, she's a trumpster - dumb as a bag of rocks.

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Response to Stonepounder (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:11 PM

41. That just sucks. I can't imagine the level of a-holishness that would do that. "Entitled". Yeah.

With no basis for the entitlement, other than being republican and white?? Just guessing...

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 08:42 PM

18. Can't say I've noticed that.

I live in a smallish town in Central Florida. Bedroom community of Orlando.

I find it as cordial as when I moved out of Orlando 15 years ago. Maybe more so. It is certainly more diverse and younger.

And when I travel to the smaller coastal communities northwest of here it is even friendlier.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 08:52 PM

20. I got a rude note on my window for poor parking today.

I was entirely within the lines (with a foot to spare on all sides,) but I was angled within the parking space. "Why don't you learn how to park???" seemed a little over-reactive to me given my degree of infraction. And this is in Canada, no less...

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Response to The_jackalope (Reply #20)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 09:47 PM

32. in Canada???

geez, you have your rotten apples too. People have short fuses.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 09:09 PM

23. Not so much here where I live...

I'm in the south and people here are so freaking nice it boggles the mind they vote overwhelmingly repub nearly every time.

They're friendly, go out of their way to help and are just nice. But the repubs do have a cult following nonetheless.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #23)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 09:42 PM

28. My experience too.

Everywhere Iíve been in the south is that way.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #28)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:20 PM

43. Is it just a veneer/ fascade? Cuz there's plenty of racism, etc. in the South.

Is it just not articulated in public?

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #23)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 09:49 PM

33. Same here in WV. nt

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 09:17 PM

24. MAGAt's deserve no civility or respect.

F em!!

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Response to aeromanKC (Reply #24)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 09:38 PM

25. Trying to wrap my head around your advice.

In my 53 years I have treated everyone I contact with civility and respect and have with almost no exceptions received the same back. I canít imagine doing differently.

This, of course, includes people at work and in casual social circles I am pretty sure voted for Trump. And while talking politics with coworkers or casual acquaintances is not done here, Iím sure they know my politics.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 09:42 PM

29. I haven't noticed that it's any worse than ever before.

Most people are pleasant and polite; a few are rude assholes - but that's nothing new.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 09:44 PM

30. We live in a kick-down, kiss-up society. It's completely vile.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 09:53 PM

34. I've been walking around with anger smoldering inside since 11/2016...

Sleeplessness, irritability, disappointment in my fellow citizens, a deeper cynicism than I had before 45ís ďpresidency,Ē a constant simmering anger over obvious crimes that are being committed daily by the far-right ideologues who support 45, and 45ís belligerent lunacy, his crudeness and plain stupidity.

Oh, and the goddamn Republicans who are SILENT in the face of this ongoing constitutional crisis. They really get to me, because they could stop this destruction of democracy. And they still call themselves ďconservativeĒ? They are now fucking fascists.

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Response to VOX (Reply #34)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:16 PM

42. I totally relate. Started when Bolton/ Stone et al stopped the FL recount in 2000. Won't forget.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Reply #42)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:16 PM

45. I recall 2000 all too well: the "Brooks Brothers Riot," etc.

Bad times. Now, more bad times. Republicans really apply themselves when it comes to the dirtiest of politics.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 10:09 PM

35. Reposting and paraphrasing something I saw on Facebook earlier.

You can't see the pressure the other person is under, and the other person can't see pain that you're in. This is life, no matter whether it's with work, family, feelings or friends, we should try to understand each other. Learn to think differently, perhaps more clearly and communicate better. A little thought and patience goes a long way.

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Response to Decoy of Fenris (Reply #35)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:25 PM

44. I agree with all of your post. That's why tolerance is so important. And when I see so many people

on a hair trigger, I worry about where we're headed. So many with nothing to lose, and angry. And the entitled who simply don't give a s... about anybody, except their clan.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 10:17 PM

36. Yea, I wish we could all Evolve Please!1

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:35 PM

47. I almost got in a fight on the bus yesterday...

...with a guy who wouldn't accept my apology for stepping on his foot.

Him: "Ouch!"

Me: "Oh god, I'm so sorry. My fault. Are you okay?"

Him: "Sorry? SORRY?"

Me: (Now with a measured, pissed off voice) "Yes. I messed up. I'm sorry. I've apologized. Twice now."

Him: "Yeah, whatever."

Me: "Fuck you then."

Before everyone jumps me, I realize I'm wrong twice in that story. (Three times, actually, including the original foot-stepping.)

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:42 PM

48. Less then 1% of the population watches Fox News in primetime

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/how-many-people-actually-watch-fox-news-in-america.html/

According to the below article, only about 1.4 million people are listening listen to Rush Limbaugh at any given time when his show is on.

"Rush Limbaugh's Audience May Be Much Smaller Than You Think"

https://www.businessinsider.com/rush-limbaughs-audience-may-be-so-much-smaller-than-you-think-2012-3

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #48)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 06:31 PM

57. I sincerely hope that is the case. I hear people listening to him on daily walks, in traffic, etc.

Then there are the Rush copycats, and there are lots of them. Hannity, Beck, Savage, Jones, Ingraham, Hewitt, et al. And then the regional ones kick in based on smaller market share audiences. Howie Carr (Boston) as an example. The message is the same. Democrats and Liberals are the cause of all our problems, and Trump is awesome.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:45 PM

50. Good observation

Sadly this is happening in many parts of our planet

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:53 PM

52. My friend knows someone who thinks it all started with right turn on red!

I think there is something to that theory, actually. Prior to that, people expected to wait at a stop light - now they simply don't. I've even been honked at for NOT "getting out of the way" of someone who wants to turn right when I want to continue straight (and really don't feel like making multiple lane changes). That law probably has coddled peoples' impatience (and it's also a real annoyance for pedestrians, not being sure a car is going to stay stopped, even if the walk light is on in a crosswalk).

Of course, right turn on red is pretty universal now (it didn't used to be, I remember other states had it before mine did), so there's likely a whole generation now that doesn't know any other way and can't even conceive of sitting through an entire stop light.



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Response to LisaM (Reply #52)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 06:26 PM

56. I see stop signs as optional now. It's crazy in the Northeast and the Eastern US.

I also noticed it in CA.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 04:28 PM

54. Some empirical evidence. Last year in IL 5 cops hit by cars in traffic stops. So far this year? 16.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:28 PM

55. Driving has certainly become a less civil activity

In the past few years, I've noticed a far greater number of aggressive drivers on the road. Ive been nearly hit two or three times recently by people who wait til the last minute to merge when their lane is ending, and then speed up. Seems pedestrians get hit more often, too. There is a sign up a couple of blocks from my house that says only 25% of local drivers are yielding to pedestrians.

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Response to Evolve Dammit (Original post)

Sun Apr 21, 2019, 06:18 AM

59. A lot of it is

LAWLESSNESS and lack of accountability. The right thinks laws are for p*ssy libs and feels they don't need to abide by them (especially since most often they're just allowed to do what they want with no repercussions)

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