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kentuck

(111,094 posts)
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 03:44 PM Apr 2019

The Bottom Line

It is up to Nancy and the Democrats.

Otherwise, Donald Trump is going to walk. No one else can hold him accountable.

The Democrats must make a decision. Do they want to impeach or do they want this to be decided by the election in 2020?

If they do not wish to impeach, everything from here forward is just politics.

It will not be an honorable precedent if they choose politics over truth and justice.

And there is no guarantee that Donald Trump will not win re-election in 2020.

And there is no guarantee that the American people will have received all the information they needed to make an educated choice.

Bill Barr is not going to resolve this crisis. Neither is Bob Mueller. It is up to Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats. If they choose not to act, then we may as well reel in our lines and go home.

68 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Bottom Line (Original Post) kentuck Apr 2019 OP
Correct. They need to choose principle or politics. There are no 2020 guarantees either way. dameatball Apr 2019 #1
Your point needs to be emphasized. kentuck Apr 2019 #3
It is too late. It will take longer than the time before the next election to get Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #18
Maybe we can do both TheRealNorth Apr 2019 #34
I don't see the point. We can investigate and do the same thing. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #41
Mueller got enough documents, Congress can get them.... lastlib Apr 2019 #49
How do we get an impeachment through the Senate. democratisphere Apr 2019 #2
You bring the evidence to the public's knowledge tnlurker Apr 2019 #5
The Senate has a new breed of extremely corrupt rethuglicons and democratisphere Apr 2019 #6
This isn't Nixon. TwilightZone Apr 2019 #9
Don't have to - hearing in House to bring charges the trial before Senate bigbrother05 Apr 2019 #11
There is not enough time before the next election. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #20
The report is out, now the hearings start in the House bigbrother05 Apr 2019 #44
If evidence is presented in open impeachment session for how complicity they are, Volaris Apr 2019 #12
They wont. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #17
Yes they will, if they think they can make the case to their base that they should be allowed to Volaris Apr 2019 #36
Look at # of Repuke senators that poli-junkie Apr 2019 #4
WE are worth it! FormerOstrich Apr 2019 #7
Robert Mueller's testimony is going to be very interesting. SKKY Apr 2019 #8
IMO, letting it go to a vote in 2020 is putting our future in the Russian's hands. n/t woodsprite Apr 2019 #10
It is to late for impeachment but we can investigate. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #16
Something I said on another post flotsam Apr 2019 #13
Everyone died at the Alamo. I would prefer to keep investigating and beat the shit out of Trump in Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #15
They stood on principle at the Alamo flotsam Apr 2019 #19
Fuck principle. We need to get Trump out in 20. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #22
For fuck sake . We are less than a year away from an election. We need to win. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #14
Your assumption is that he is weaker if Democrats don't impeach? kentuck Apr 2019 #21
This is a partisan divide... how will it make him weaker? Do you really think the Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #30
Voters should not have to vote out of ignorance. kentuck Apr 2019 #31
We are more than 18 months away from an election flotsam Apr 2019 #23
Just my opinion... kentuck Apr 2019 #24
He will win if we do impeach. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #26
Why? kentuck Apr 2019 #33
Polls show many voters feels this needs to end...dragging it out with impeachment will only hurt us. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #39
Agreed! McKim Apr 2019 #56
Sure but the election begins in earnest with Iowa. If you Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #25
Really flotsam Apr 2019 #28
He won't have to resign. He will be protected and fears prosecution if he loses the election Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #37
Losing is never the right thing. Nothing is more important than beating Trump in 20. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #27
Trump will beat you like a drum if you do not impeach. kentuck Apr 2019 #29
The report is bad for him. We can investigate but impeachment won't help us. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #38
K&R Kurt V. Apr 2019 #32
angry I_have_had_enough Apr 2019 #35
You can't convict him. Scott walker was impeached into two terms, Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #47
Scott Walker didn't pay off porn stars BlueWI Apr 2019 #53
Unfortunately Mueller was built up for 2.5 years to be the Messiah. MadDAsHell Apr 2019 #40
Investigation and hold public hearingsimpeachment....but no impeachment.... Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #42
That may be the Democrats' plan? kentuck Apr 2019 #43
Giving a tyrant like Trump four more years when we have no chance of conviction Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #45
They are expected to ignore the subpoena requests.... kentuck Apr 2019 #48
Mueller did h Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #46
If impeached disndat Apr 2019 #50
The bottom line is that the Russians have attacked America and ahave an asset in the oval Baltimike Apr 2019 #51
Censure Cosmocat Apr 2019 #52
When the Senate Republicans block removal from office, then censure prodigitalson Apr 2019 #58
Censure does not get the truth out like Impeachment investigation hearings would. SunSeeker Apr 2019 #64
They have literally a half dozen committees in the House investigating him Cosmocat Apr 2019 #66
Those House investigations have gotten no media attention because they have no consequences. SunSeeker Apr 2019 #68
Impeach the MFer, I do not care how long it takes or if the DEMs... NotHardly Apr 2019 #54
... how many Repugs took money from the communists? NotHardly Apr 2019 #55
They have to impeach. Pobeka Apr 2019 #57
He's going to walk, even with impeachment. Honeycombe8 Apr 2019 #59
In my opinion, the most important thing we can do... kentuck Apr 2019 #60
At minimum the light should be shown, I'm still trying to get a solid answer on what other uponit7771 Apr 2019 #62
Starting formal impeachment investigation proceedings lets us get Grad Jury info. SunSeeker Apr 2019 #63
THX !!! uponit7771 Apr 2019 #65
That's not a rational decision relative to the fact that Red Don is going to be helped by Russians uponit7771 Apr 2019 #61
"It is up to Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats." myohmy2 Apr 2019 #67

kentuck

(111,094 posts)
3. Your point needs to be emphasized.
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 03:55 PM
Apr 2019

There is no guarantee the Democrats will win if they do not impeach.

A point could be made that Trump will be stronger from this point forward if he is not impeached.

It's a tough decision.

Democrats must choose principles or politics.

It is a very, very important decision.

Demsrule86

(68,565 posts)
18. It is too late. It will take longer than the time before the next election to get
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:54 PM
Apr 2019

Documents...everything will be fought in court.

TheRealNorth

(9,481 posts)
34. Maybe we can do both
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:17 PM
Apr 2019

Continue to work though the courts in the guise of rooting out Russian and other foreign influences in foreign politics, all the while maintaining it has nothing to do with impeachment. That will keep the dirt on Trump flowing through 2020.

Time to play dirty like the Republicans.

lastlib

(23,226 posts)
49. Mueller got enough documents, Congress can get them....
Sat Apr 20, 2019, 04:30 PM
Apr 2019

It won't happen tomorrow, or this month, but it will happen. Yes, it will take a fight, but we can win it. I honestly have some faith that we can have the facts before the American people before the 2020 election. And I honestly believe that enough voters will be sufficiently sick of his criminal schtick that they will throw his ass out if he is not removed by impeachment or other legal process. This nightmare will end.

democratisphere

(17,235 posts)
2. How do we get an impeachment through the Senate.
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 03:49 PM
Apr 2019

Wonder how many rethuglicons are willing to fall on their sword for drumpf.

tnlurker

(1,020 posts)
5. You bring the evidence to the public's knowledge
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 03:59 PM
Apr 2019

Through impeachment hearings. Then the pressure on the Republicans to convict will be greater.

That is the point that Nixon resigned. The republican senators at the time were against conviction....until that point at which the public could see that Nixon was guilty. When that happened they (the republican senators) advised him (Nixon) to resign partly so they would not be voting to convict or not...thus effecting their re-election chances

democratisphere

(17,235 posts)
6. The Senate has a new breed of extremely corrupt rethuglicons and
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 04:06 PM
Apr 2019

drumpf has more than 1/3 of the population that will support him no matter what.

TwilightZone

(25,471 posts)
9. This isn't Nixon.
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 04:11 PM
Apr 2019

And the Republicans who showed a conscience during the Nixon process no longer exist. There is no equivalent in the current party.

The chances of the Senate convicting, regardless of the outcome of the investigations, is zero.

bigbrother05

(5,995 posts)
11. Don't have to - hearing in House to bring charges the trial before Senate
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 04:28 PM
Apr 2019

Don't rush the hearings and get as much evidence under oath.

The House will select the prosecutors that will bring the case before the Senate.

Even if they can't get 2/3 in the Senate, it will be clear to the public that partisan GOP politics swung the vote.

bigbrother05

(5,995 posts)
44. The report is out, now the hearings start in the House
Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:59 AM
Apr 2019

In the next few months a ton of testimony will be given before the House committees. That will reinforce what's known from the report and is likely to reveal even more.

Those hearings could/should lead to the Judiciary committee initiating an Impeachment hearing with a House vote by the holidays (maybe sooner).

McConnell will waffle around about scheduling the Senate action (Garland redux) which will put the Senate GOP in a bind coming into the primary season.

All that action in the House will tend to leave the Dem candidate above the fray and they can honestly say the will let the process play out with the facts leading the way.

With a wounded and flailing incumbent, the GOP will be trying to stem losses.

Volaris

(10,270 posts)
12. If evidence is presented in open impeachment session for how complicity they are,
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 04:33 PM
Apr 2019

They WILL put him in prison to save their own asses.

Volaris

(10,270 posts)
36. Yes they will, if they think they can make the case to their base that they should be allowed to
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:18 PM
Apr 2019

Keep their seats as a result of throwing him under the bus.

They don't give a fuck about him. They care about getting re elected, point blank end of sentence.

poli-junkie

(1,002 posts)
4. Look at # of Repuke senators that
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 03:57 PM
Apr 2019

approved the lifting of sanctions for Deripaska not too long ago. I think it was 49 Repukes that approved. There’s your roadmap as to which Senator is on the take.

flotsam

(3,268 posts)
13. Something I said on another post
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:36 PM
Apr 2019

You Know what no one said at the Alamo "Boys-I took a whip count of the Mexicans and there's no use stirring up trouble...".

These people spent fortunes and made promises to get those jobs-but here is the thing-They swore to God they would protect and defend the constitution. That's the bottom line on their most important job and promise. And when you storm a beach you use all the powder you have, you don't screw around to keep it dry....

There-I'm out of war metaphors, but I truly believe they are on point.

Demsrule86

(68,565 posts)
15. Everyone died at the Alamo. I would prefer to keep investigating and beat the shit out of Trump in
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:51 PM
Apr 2019

20. I have no use for standing on principle if it means losing. What principle would satisfied if Trump wins in 20?

flotsam

(3,268 posts)
19. They stood on principle at the Alamo
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:55 PM
Apr 2019

And if we don't how do we differentiate ourselves from the GOP?

Demsrule86

(68,565 posts)
22. Fuck principle. We need to get Trump out in 20.
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:58 PM
Apr 2019

Losing would allow a 6/3 SCOTUS. You think giving him another term would be principled?

Demsrule86

(68,565 posts)
14. For fuck sake . We are less than a year away from an election. We need to win.
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:48 PM
Apr 2019

Trump can be prosecuted easily if he is out of office. We can't convict him in the Senate.

kentuck

(111,094 posts)
21. Your assumption is that he is weaker if Democrats don't impeach?
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:56 PM
Apr 2019

Why can't the opposite be argued?

Why not educate the voters and let them know what they are voting for and what they are voting against?

With the evidence in this report, why would that not make Trump and the entire Republican Party weaker?

How do you reach your conclusion??

Demsrule86

(68,565 posts)
30. This is a partisan divide... how will it make him weaker? Do you really think the
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:11 PM
Apr 2019

GOP will stop supporting him no matter what we do? If there was even chance than I would be on board but there isn't.

kentuck

(111,094 posts)
31. Voters should not have to vote out of ignorance.
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:14 PM
Apr 2019

Democrats should educate them. Information is power.

flotsam

(3,268 posts)
23. We are more than 18 months away from an election
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:00 PM
Apr 2019

But I don't care if it was 18 years or 18 days. You do the right thing because it's the right thing. You seem to figure doing the right thing will cost us votes but It's equally possible MORE people would vote for that.

kentuck

(111,094 posts)
24. Just my opinion...
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:05 PM
Apr 2019

But I think it will be devastating for the Democratic Party if they do not impeach. Trump will win re-election.

Demsrule86

(68,565 posts)
39. Polls show many voters feels this needs to end...dragging it out with impeachment will only hurt us.
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:38 PM
Apr 2019

I hate Trump but we can't get him out. Better to try to win in 20.

McKim

(2,412 posts)
56. Agreed!
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 05:19 PM
Apr 2019

The Democratic Party will become irrelevant if we do not impeach. This is no time for sunshine patriots!!!!

Demsrule86

(68,565 posts)
25. Sure but the election begins in earnest with Iowa. If you
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:06 PM
Apr 2019

drag impeachment to the end...he will get some sympathy. We have a partisan divide no way we convince enough GOP to gain either votes or conviction in the Senate. I fo not see a point to this. Investigate yes impeach no.

flotsam

(3,268 posts)
28. Really
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:10 PM
Apr 2019

It may in fact be more likely he would choose to be the second to resign than the first removed from office. Don't conflate a continuing criminal enterprise with lying about sex....think Nixon, not Clinton. Clinton got sympathy because it WAS unfair.

Demsrule86

(68,565 posts)
37. He won't have to resign. He will be protected and fears prosecution if he loses the election
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:33 PM
Apr 2019

IN 20.

kentuck

(111,094 posts)
29. Trump will beat you like a drum if you do not impeach.
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:11 PM
Apr 2019

Look for his polls to start going up next week.

35. angry
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:17 PM
Apr 2019

I have replied to my congress people to push for impeachment, twice.
They Must act before this asshole becomes normalized.

Demsrule86

(68,565 posts)
47. You can't convict him. Scott walker was impeached into two terms,
Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:45 AM
Apr 2019

Americans don't like impeachment in general.

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
53. Scott Walker didn't pay off porn stars
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 03:10 PM
Apr 2019

and fire an FBI director to obstruct an investigation.

Your opposition to impeachment is noted, but your comparison to Walker is a fail.

 

MadDAsHell

(2,067 posts)
40. Unfortunately Mueller was built up for 2.5 years to be the Messiah.
Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:45 PM
Apr 2019

Last edited Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:21 PM - Edit history (1)

Now that people are finally waking up to the fact that he is a Rethuglican and is not and never was our savior, can we keep the party in line for the long haul?

The Cons are going to do everything in their power to get the DINOs over to the "move on" side.

Demsrule86

(68,565 posts)
42. Investigation and hold public hearingsimpeachment....but no impeachment....
Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:55 AM
Apr 2019

Could be pre-impeachment. The information in the report is very damaging .

kentuck

(111,094 posts)
43. That may be the Democrats' plan?
Fri Apr 19, 2019, 06:58 AM
Apr 2019

If they are not going to impeach, in my opinion, they should subpoena everything and put it into the Courts and let the Courts decide.

Ignoring the situation is not a solution.

Demsrule86

(68,565 posts)
45. Giving a tyrant like Trump four more years when we have no chance of conviction
Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:42 AM
Apr 2019

Is dangerous as hell. You can get documents in pre- impeachment hearings.

disndat

(1,887 posts)
50. If impeached
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 11:19 AM
Apr 2019

will Pence pardon him? Then what will happen? Will the Democrats have a harder time defeating Pence or some other than beating Trump?

Baltimike

(4,143 posts)
51. The bottom line is that the Russians have attacked America and ahave an asset in the oval
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 11:21 AM
Apr 2019

we have to stop pretending that truth and facts even MATTER to them and stop being fucking purists.

We are at WAR right now, and impeaching before we even get the whole report is silly. It lets the kGOPb acquit him AND frame the entire narrative successfully.

Cosmocat

(14,564 posts)
52. Censure
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 11:25 AM
Apr 2019

The senate will not convict IF McConnell were even to bring it up.

Impeachment by the House would then be nothing more than a statement.

There already is something in place to do that - censure.

The House can do it, and that will be that.

No 45, the republicans, the conservative media, the liberal media, bashing the dems to going the impeachment route and not being able to finish it.

Also, more politically acceptable for members tight or R leaning districts to censure than to vote for impeachment.

prodigitalson

(2,419 posts)
58. When the Senate Republicans block removal from office, then censure
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 09:26 PM
Apr 2019

but the House must indict him if they are to do their duty to Constitution and Country. Im all for censure as a last resort. If we are left with symbolic acts let's make it the harshest one. An impeachment is akin to an indictment a censure is a strongly worded letter.

SunSeeker

(51,554 posts)
64. Censure does not get the truth out like Impeachment investigation hearings would.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 05:59 AM
Apr 2019

Censure is just a statement. The House voting to commence impeachment is much more of a rubuke than any censure statement. He will become only the 3rd president in history to be impeached while in office.

Also, impeachment proceedings allow us to get Grand Jury info.

From the Washington Post:

In the face of Barr’s decision not to disclose any of the Mueller report to the public or even to the House Judiciary Committee chaired by Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D- N.Y.) until Barr and his team have scrubbed the report of grand jury information (and other material), Nadler and committee Democrats have authorized a subpoena for the full report, setting the stage for a court fight over the committee’s right to see grand jury information. Although the public need underlying the request for disclosure in McKeever was much less pressing, the decision in that case undermines the position of Nadler’s committee, because the controlling federal rule contains no exception allowing congressional “oversight” committees to demand access to otherwise secret grand jury proceedings.

One of the exceptions to grand jury secrecy is disclosure “preliminary to or in connection with a judicial proceeding.” To authorize disclosure of the Watergate grand jury information, the special prosecutor’s office argued that the House had authorized its Judiciary Committee to conduct a formal impeachment inquiry and that such an inquiry could be fairly analogized to a “grand jury” investigation and thus a judicial proceeding. Both the district court and the court of appeals agreed, and the Judiciary Committee obtained both the report and the underlying evidence.

Significantly, the appeals court decision several days ago reaffirmed that exception. All three judges agreed that an impeachment inquiry falls within the “exception for judicial proceedings” and “coheres” with other rulings about the proper scope of grand jury secrecy.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-full-mueller-report-could-be-released--if-the-house-opens-impeachment-hearings/2019/04/08/e47fff42-5a14-11e9-a00e-050dc7b82693_story.html

Cosmocat

(14,564 posts)
66. They have literally a half dozen committees in the House investigating him
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 07:32 AM
Apr 2019

there really is not much more that an impeachment hearing would bring to light that they aren't going to bring to light, and the committees are in fact covering a MUCH wider range of his crimes and fuckwitttery.

Do the hearings they had planned to have all all along, vet out the Mueller report through the summer, than censure him before the end of the year.

SunSeeker

(51,554 posts)
68. Those House investigations have gotten no media attention because they have no consequences.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 01:42 PM
Apr 2019

Formal impeachment investigation hearings will draw national, indeed global, attention.

Also, those existing House investigations can't get the Grand Jury info we need. Only the impeachment process can get us that:

From the Washington Post:

In the face of Barr’s decision not to disclose any of the Mueller report to the public or even to the House Judiciary Committee chaired by Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D- N.Y.) until Barr and his team have scrubbed the report of grand jury information (and other material), Nadler and committee Democrats have authorized a subpoena for the full report, setting the stage for a court fight over the committee’s right to see grand jury information. Although the public need underlying the request for disclosure in McKeever was much less pressing, the decision in that case undermines the position of Nadler’s committee, because the controlling federal rule contains no exception allowing congressional “oversight” committees to demand access to otherwise secret grand jury proceedings.

One of the exceptions to grand jury secrecy is disclosure “preliminary to or in connection with a judicial proceeding.” To authorize disclosure of the Watergate grand jury information, the special prosecutor’s office argued that the House had authorized its Judiciary Committee to conduct a formal impeachment inquiry and that such an inquiry could be fairly analogized to a “grand jury” investigation and thus a judicial proceeding. Both the district court and the court of appeals agreed, and the Judiciary Committee obtained both the report and the underlying evidence.

Significantly, the appeals court decision several days ago reaffirmed that exception. All three judges agreed that an impeachment inquiry falls within the “exception for judicial proceedings” and “coheres” with other rulings about the proper scope of grand jury secrecy.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-full-mueller-report-could-be-released--if-the-house-opens-impeachment-hearings/2019/04/08/e47fff42-5a14-11e9-a00e-050dc7b82693_story.html

Trump welcomed a Russian attack on our country in order to gain office, then obstructed our Justice Department, sacking an AG and an FBI Director, in order to stop the investigation into that attack. This is horrifically worse than Watergate. A censure would be a laughable slap on the wrist for these grave crimes against our country.

NotHardly

(1,062 posts)
54. Impeach the MFer, I do not care how long it takes or if the DEMs...
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 03:59 PM
Apr 2019
have to freaking fight for it... will no one do their damn job in the so-called House of Representatives... shall we have just let the country be attacked, sold down the river, and no one wins but the billionaires??? and Don's of a new mafia????

Pobeka

(4,999 posts)
57. They have to impeach.
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 05:32 PM
Apr 2019

Otherwise they not only look weak, they are weak.

If the senate convicts, then the SOB is out of there and faces consequences.
If the senate does not convict, then it will be crystal clear that the GOP senate does not care about this country, and the GOP will have a serious uphill battle for the senate in the 2020 election.

There is no significant legislation that will make it through the senate before 2020 anyway to change the lives of ordinary voters.

Impeachment in the house is the only play available...

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
59. He's going to walk, even with impeachment.
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 11:24 PM
Apr 2019

The impeachment would be on paper, for historical and maybe future legal reasons. But it won't remove him from office.

They could file a secret indictment, maybe, for Trump to be indicted after he leaves office. But he's going to walk, for the time being. Mueller knew that.

kentuck

(111,094 posts)
60. In my opinion, the most important thing we can do...
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 11:30 PM
Apr 2019

Is to try and inform the citizens of this country so they can be educated voters. All we can do is give them the facts and possible consequences. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

If people have the information and still vote against what is best for our country, there is not much more we can do.

But we have to try and get them the info they need to be an informed voter. The propaganda is very strong, almost cult-like, and will be very difficult to defeat.

uponit7771

(90,336 posts)
62. At minimum the light should be shown, I'm still trying to get a solid answer on what other
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 12:00 AM
Apr 2019

... abilities impeachment brings congress.

SunSeeker

(51,554 posts)
63. Starting formal impeachment investigation proceedings lets us get Grad Jury info.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 05:54 AM
Apr 2019

From the Washington Post:

In the face of Barr’s decision not to disclose any of the Mueller report to the public or even to the House Judiciary Committee chaired by Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D- N.Y.) until Barr and his team have scrubbed the report of grand jury information (and other material), Nadler and committee Democrats have authorized a subpoena for the full report, setting the stage for a court fight over the committee’s right to see grand jury information. Although the public need underlying the request for disclosure in McKeever was much less pressing, the decision in that case undermines the position of Nadler’s committee, because the controlling federal rule contains no exception allowing congressional “oversight” committees to demand access to otherwise secret grand jury proceedings.

One of the exceptions to grand jury secrecy is disclosure “preliminary to or in connection with a judicial proceeding.” To authorize disclosure of the Watergate grand jury information, the special prosecutor’s office argued that the House had authorized its Judiciary Committee to conduct a formal impeachment inquiry and that such an inquiry could be fairly analogized to a “grand jury” investigation and thus a judicial proceeding. Both the district court and the court of appeals agreed, and the Judiciary Committee obtained both the report and the underlying evidence.

Significantly, the appeals court decision several days ago reaffirmed that exception. All three judges agreed that an impeachment inquiry falls within the “exception for judicial proceedings” and “coheres” with other rulings about the proper scope of grand jury secrecy.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-full-mueller-report-could-be-released--if-the-house-opens-impeachment-hearings/2019/04/08/e47fff42-5a14-11e9-a00e-050dc7b82693_story.html

uponit7771

(90,336 posts)
61. That's not a rational decision relative to the fact that Red Don is going to be helped by Russians
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 11:32 PM
Apr 2019

... again.

myohmy2

(3,163 posts)
67. "It is up to Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats."
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 07:49 AM
Apr 2019

...IMO, the Constitution demands we impeach and let the process take it's course...

...in the long run, sweeping impeachment under the table will cause more problems and do more harm than not impeaching...

...if we put country over party, I don't believe we have a choice...

...

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