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Laelth

(32,017 posts)
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 12:45 PM Apr 2019

Impeach ... NOW!

Last edited Mon Apr 22, 2019, 07:57 PM - Edit history (19)

In his report, Robert Meuller handed us ten, separate counts of obstruction of justice and said, in effect, “If I could say that these were NOT criminal offenses, I would say so,” yet he refused to deny that these were criminal offenses. In other words, in Meuller’s opinion, at least ten of President Trump’s actions WERE criminal offenses, but because the Justice Department can not indict a sitting President, Meuller placed the matter squarely in the hands of the House of Representatives to proceed with Articles of Impeachment. Only Nancy Pelosi can make this call, and I will respect her decision on the subject, regardless, but I think that we should use the power that we have (control of the House) to impeach President Donald Trump. Here’s why:

1) We want to stand for the rule of law.
We have a President who has demonstrated, time and again, that he considers himself above the law. Allowing this philosophy of executive power to stand without challenge would make us complicit in the erosion of our democratic republic’s foundation—government by rule of law, as opposed to government by the whims and “divine inspiration” of the monarch (precisely what Trump perceives himself to be, just as any corporate CEO might imagine). I want my party to be on the right side of history on this subject. We have an opportunity to call out a gross display of “supreme executive power by divine right,” and I think that we have a duty to do so.

2) We need to punt the ball.
Currently, we have three committee chairs investigating these matters (Cummings, Nadler, and Schiff). My sense is that the American people are sick of talking about this. They generally concede that Trump is a scum-bucket, but they are more concerned about whether or not they can pay their bills next month. The more we investigate this matter, the more we play into Trump’s “witch hunt” narrative. So, I say IMPEACH, and do it quickly. Do it quickly, and then drop it, entirely. Make this Mitch McConnell’s problem. Let the Senate deal with it. Democrats will have done their Constitutional duty once the House of Representatives has impeached the President. We can then just abandon our investigations and start focusing on the things that matter to Americans—health care, student loan debt (Thank you, Elizabeth Warren.), climate change, and the increasing wealth gap in our society.

3) Impeachment improves our chances of taking control of the Senate in 2020.
I want all the Republican senators who are up for re-election in 2020 on the record, here. I want a YES or a NO from them on Trump’s guilt. If they say “YES,” they lose their base. We win. If they say “NO,” they lose credibility and lose the center because most Americans are convinced that Trump is, clearly, guilty as sin. Again, we win. This is why it is so important to pass Articles of Impeachment QUICKLY. McConnell can delay, and save his members an embarrassing vote, if Democrats delay the process by insisting upon further investigations. What Mueller has given us is PLENTY to proceed with Articles of Impeachment. If you recall that one of the Articles filed against Nixon was "lying to the American people," it is obvious that we have plenty of grounds to impeach President Trump ... NOW. No more investigation is needed.

4) There's very little down-side.
In the unlikely event that we end up with a President Pence, for a short time, the nation will be safer, and history indicates that Pence will not be elected President in 2020–just ask Gerald Ford and Al Gore. Again, we win.

It is indeed rare, in politics, when doing the right thing is highly likely to result in an excellent outcome with very little risk of a negative outcome, but I think that this is one of those occasions.

Speaker Pelosi, I implore you ...

Impeach ... NOW!

63 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Impeach ... NOW! (Original Post) Laelth Apr 2019 OP
While lots of other topics to discuss.....THIS needs to stay at the top of everyone's mind! Ninga Apr 2019 #1
What do you think the hearings DownriverDem Apr 2019 #48
Timed to put Trump's scandals in the news from now until Nov 2020 Thomas Hurt Apr 2019 #2
Yes, but no. Laelth Apr 2019 #3
I agree with you, but..... Jim_Pridx Apr 2019 #7
I don't think I understand your point here. Laelth Apr 2019 #19
Yes, that makes perfect sense, but again, Jim_Pridx Apr 2019 #24
I have tremendous faith in Speaker Pelosi. Laelth Apr 2019 #27
Yeah, I certainly get that! Jim_Pridx Apr 2019 #30
That's the least of my worries. Laelth Apr 2019 #31
You know, I'm not trying to argue with you...... Jim_Pridx Apr 2019 #36
I hear you. Laelth Apr 2019 #37
Yup! Jim_Pridx Apr 2019 #40
Allow me to add ... Laelth Apr 2019 #43
Oh yeah, I suspect that there are..... Jim_Pridx Apr 2019 #44
Agreed. Laelth Apr 2019 #58
Yes, and it's the only way we will get all of Mueller's grand jury info. SunSeeker Apr 2019 #4
Halle-fucking lujah watoos Apr 2019 #5
Exactly. orangecrush Apr 2019 #18
I think part of the hesitation is what Russia will do Chakaconcarne Apr 2019 #6
So if we do nothing orangecrush Apr 2019 #17
Precisely. +1 Laelth Apr 2019 #35
Agreed playaseeker Apr 2019 #8
Hear! Hear! Laelth Apr 2019 #21
Welcome to DU, playaseeker! calimary Apr 2019 #22
+1 Laelth Apr 2019 #34
Please, correct me if I am wrong, but can we stop saying that a sitting president cannot be indicted Perseus Apr 2019 #9
It's not a meme, but it is a significant opinion. Laelth Apr 2019 #10
K&R...👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍 spanone Apr 2019 #11
Thank you, my friend. Laelth Apr 2019 #14
I'm with you.👍🏼 spanone Apr 2019 #16
This message was self-deleted by its author spanone Apr 2019 #12
This message was self-deleted by its author spanone Apr 2019 #13
IMPEACH NOW! orangecrush Apr 2019 #15
Cheers! Laelth Apr 2019 #26
+1 Rudy G: "It's OK for Trump to get help from Russia" uponit7771 Apr 2019 #20
I wrote postcards to her at our Indivisible Postcard Party yesterday. calimary Apr 2019 #23
Excellent. Laelth Apr 2019 #25
I hope you don't mind Calimary Lotus54 Apr 2019 #52
+1 Laelth Apr 2019 #60
By all means! Happy to help! calimary Apr 2019 #62
Impeach! Lunabell Apr 2019 #28
Hear! Hear! Laelth Apr 2019 #33
Impeach the fucker! 50 Shades Of Blue Apr 2019 #29
Rep. Tlaib nailed it, didn't she? Laelth Apr 2019 #32
I've read here on DU the Dems may not have the House votes to impeach. That would make the process jalan48 Apr 2019 #38
Prior to the release of the Meuller report, I assume. Laelth Apr 2019 #41
K & R mountain grammy Apr 2019 #39
Well said! Laelth Apr 2019 #42
Even Republicans have to admit that an impeachment is justifiable... world wide wally Apr 2019 #45
What they admit in private and vote in public Jakes Progress Apr 2019 #47
Yea! Let's Par-Tay! Whoop Whoop. Jakes Progress Apr 2019 #46
Yeah!!... stillcool Apr 2019 #51
That's what impeachment now gets us. Jakes Progress Apr 2019 #53
I'm all for impeachment.. stillcool Apr 2019 #54
It's all about headlines Jakes Progress Apr 2019 #61
Thank you!!! Thank you!! Lotus54 Apr 2019 #49
You are quite welcome. Laelth Apr 2019 #57
I was originally against it. cwydro Apr 2019 #50
Same here. Laelth Apr 2019 #56
I agree. ElementaryPenguin Apr 2019 #55
+1 n/t Laelth Apr 2019 #63
Yes. Impeachment opens up powers of investigation, and that's where it starts, not where Nitram Apr 2019 #59

Ninga

(8,362 posts)
1. While lots of other topics to discuss.....THIS needs to stay at the top of everyone's mind!
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 12:48 PM
Apr 2019

This and only this!

DownriverDem

(6,336 posts)
48. What do you think the hearings
Tue Apr 23, 2019, 11:34 AM
Apr 2019

going on are? You have hearings. You find evidence. You get your ducks in a row. Then you impeach.,

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
3. Yes, but no.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 02:08 PM
Apr 2019

I would prefer to impeach President Trump quickly and get this issue out of the news cycle so that Democrats can then focus on the real issues facing Americans today. If Trump’s crimes appear in the news, I want Republicans responsible for it. That will happen if Democrats impeach quickly and then let the Senate handle this.

Thank you for this reply.

Jim_Pridx

(72 posts)
7. I agree with you, but.....
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 03:00 PM
Apr 2019

impeachment is likely to be a very long, drawn-out process that the Republicans will take every advantage of to ensure it'll be that way. You know the Senate will boggle this around indefinitely.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
19. I don't think I understand your point here.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 03:41 PM
Apr 2019

I think that Speaker Pelosi could push Articles of Impeachment through the House very quickly. In fact, I think that she could get it done in 30 days. After that, it’s the Senate’s problem, and I welcome the idea of Mitch McConnell dragging out the trial for nine months or more. That will be his doing, not ours, and we can spend that time focusing on what matters to the electorate. We will be free to abandon the alleged “witch hunt” as soon as Articles of Impeachment are passed.

Does that make sense? Thank you for the reply.

Jim_Pridx

(72 posts)
24. Yes, that makes perfect sense, but again,
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 04:15 PM
Apr 2019

......please know that I'm agreeing with you, for I'm all in favor of a quick impeachment! However, I tend to feel that it's a bit idealistic to assume that it'll be that easy. Even if impeachment proceedings were to occur quickly by the Congress, the right-wing members of the Senate and their cronies will very likely drag this out as long as they possibly can while using the same old tactics they've used all along, particularly the "art of deception and distraction." In other words, the right could very likely use this as yet another tool to deceive the public that it's yet another "witch hunt" of sorts, and it could potentially keep us from focusing on "what matters to the electorate." It's worked in the past for them, so why shouldn't they try it again? and again? I'm certainly not implying that it will indeed happen, but nothing surprises me these days about those clowns. If we are to proceed with impeachment, I'm only suggesting that it could potentially be a very rough ride.

Conversely, I'm certainly not in favor of delaying such an action, either, for the very last thing we need is to further embolden this bastard.

So, hopefully you'll understand where I'm coming from. From my standpoint, I guess I'm just not envisioning any solution without some difficulty ahead, but I do agree that we should indeed press forward with this as quickly as possible, if for no other reason than to see how it plays out.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
27. I have tremendous faith in Speaker Pelosi.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 04:27 PM
Apr 2019

If she decides to go forward with Articles of Impeachment, they WILL pass in the House of Representatives, and they will pass very quickly. I have never seen a better arm-twister (LBJ, perhaps, rivals her). What Speaker Pelosi wants, her caucus will give her. It is all up to the Speaker. There is little to nothing that the Republican minority in the House could do to stop her.

Jim_Pridx

(72 posts)
30. Yeah, I certainly get that!
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 04:46 PM
Apr 2019

And hopefully Pelosi will act on it soon. It's once it gets past the House that I worry about.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
31. That's the least of my worries.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 05:42 PM
Apr 2019

It is unlikely that the Senate will convict Trump, admittedly. The Senate has NEVER convicted a President under its Constitutional power to do so, but I want that to be Mitch McConnell’s problem and not ours. I want Democrats to focus on the bread and butter issues that matter to most Americans, instead, and let the Republicans discuss the rot that’s eating away at their party.

Thank you for an interesting discussion.

Jim_Pridx

(72 posts)
36. You know, I'm not trying to argue with you......
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 06:59 PM
Apr 2019

.....but do you really believe for a moment that Rump & the Republicans will be so kind as to simply let the chips fall upon ol' Turtle Face to take care of the impeachment problem solely upon himself? all with very few repercussions to the Democrats? All of these guys have essentially become blood brothers - thick and thin - and they're in it so deep that there's no turning back for any of them. Fact is, even though this may initially fall into McConnell's lap, I'm quite sure that the right will do their very best to make their problem our problem. Just when most of us think that we've seen the worst of it, I'm afraid to say that the party has only just begun. Idealistically speaking, I "want" the very same things you want, but wanting to achieve a goal vs the realistic means of obtaining that goal can be two different things.

BTW, just a few hours ago Pelosi announced that the Dems should use caution toward the notion of impeaching Rump. As it appears now, impeachment proceedings won't likely begin anytime soon.

And, you're welcome for the interesting discussion. Thank you, too!

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
37. I hear you.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 08:23 PM
Apr 2019

I just want Democrats to stop investigating and stop talking about this. I would prefer to put this ball in McConnell’s court and, instead, focus on a positive agenda for America. I think that a quick Impeachment could accomplish this goal.

Thanks, again, for a great discussion.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
43. Allow me to add ...
Tue Apr 23, 2019, 10:48 AM
Apr 2019

You know, I suspect that there is a significant number of Republicans who would love to get rid of President Trump. They can’t say so, publicly, because their base supports the President fervently, but I am desperately curious to see how things will play out in the Senate once Articles of Impeachment are forwarded to that body. It could be very interesting, and, again, I see little to no downside for Democrats from the spectacle we may see in the Senate.

Just food for thought ... 🤔👍🏼

Jim_Pridx

(72 posts)
44. Oh yeah, I suspect that there are.....
Tue Apr 23, 2019, 11:05 AM
Apr 2019

....many Republicans who never cared for Trump. Although, it would probably take a huge blunder of magnificent proportions on Trump's part before any of them will admit that they've made a mistake by supporting him.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
58. Agreed.
Tue Apr 23, 2019, 06:05 PM
Apr 2019

But I still want the Republican senators who are up for re-election in 2020 on the record regarding Trump’s guilt. That is why I think that it would be wise to impeach ... NOW.

SunSeeker

(52,391 posts)
4. Yes, and it's the only way we will get all of Mueller's grand jury info.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 02:48 PM
Apr 2019

From the Washington Post:

In the face of Barr’s decision not to disclose any of the Mueller report to the public or even to the House Judiciary Committee chaired by Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D- N.Y.) until Barr and his team have scrubbed the report of grand jury information (and other material), Nadler and committee Democrats have authorized a subpoena for the full report, setting the stage for a court fight over the committee’s right to see grand jury information. Although the public need underlying the request for disclosure in McKeever was much less pressing, the decision in that case undermines the position of Nadler’s committee, because the controlling federal rule contains no exception allowing congressional “oversight” committees to demand access to otherwise secret grand jury proceedings.

One of the exceptions to grand jury secrecy is disclosure “preliminary to or in connection with a judicial proceeding.” To authorize disclosure of the Watergate grand jury information, the special prosecutor’s office argued that the House had authorized its Judiciary Committee to conduct a formal impeachment inquiry and that such an inquiry could be fairly analogized to a “grand jury” investigation and thus a judicial proceeding. Both the district court and the court of appeals agreed, and the Judiciary Committee obtained both the report and the underlying evidence.

Significantly, the appeals court decision several days ago reaffirmed that exception. All three judges agreed that an impeachment inquiry falls within the “exception for judicial proceedings” and “coheres” with other rulings about the proper scope of grand jury secrecy.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-full-mueller-report-could-be-released--if-the-house-opens-impeachment-hearings/2019/04/08/e47fff42-5a14-11e9-a00e-050dc7b82693_story.html

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
5. Halle-fucking lujah
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 02:53 PM
Apr 2019

I found someone who gets it.

The dirt on Trump and his crime family is contained in the grand jury testimony. Barr will never hand it over, he will fight subpoenas. The only way we get that grand jury information is if we impeach, and time is ticking, if we get close to the election Barr will have another excuse to hide the grand jury info.

Chakaconcarne

(2,533 posts)
6. I think part of the hesitation is what Russia will do
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 02:58 PM
Apr 2019

Social media wise to anyone that gets behind this...

playaseeker

(59 posts)
8. Agreed
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 03:09 PM
Apr 2019

Either we defend the rule of law or we decide that whoever is elected President is above the law. I vote for defending the constitution and the rule of law

calimary

(82,526 posts)
22. Welcome to DU, playaseeker!
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 04:02 PM
Apr 2019

Yep. It's a choice. Who (or what) do you care about protecting? A lawless so-called pResident? Or the Constitution?

It's just that simple.

And, hey, GOP: If you want to say that YOUR pResident is above the law, then you have to concede that EVERY President after him is ALSO above the law. Including the Democratic Presidents. You are laying THAT marker down.

You SURE you wanna do that? Seriously?

 

Perseus

(4,341 posts)
9. Please, correct me if I am wrong, but can we stop saying that a sitting president cannot be indicted
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 03:09 PM
Apr 2019

It is an opinion, it is not a rule, a law, just an opinion.

Many lawyers have said that a sitting president CAN BE indicted, the meme that the buffoon, or any criminal president, cannot be indicted has to stop now.

The president CAN BE INDICTED, there is not rule or law that can prevent it.

That "no sitting president can be indicted" was just an opinion by some fool who cannot make up his mind about doing the right thing, or maybe was afraid of going against the status quo, or against his pals from the republican party, but IT IS JUST AN OPINION.

Democrats have to be the first to convince the nation, and the World, that an opinion cannot prevail, that an opinion is just that, that an opinion can be wrong and has no weight on the realities of the rule of law.

THE BUFFOON CAN BE INDICTED, please repeat after me, THE BUFFOON CAN BE INDICTED, or change the word "buffoon" if you feel inclined to do do.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
10. It's not a meme, but it is a significant opinion.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 03:27 PM
Apr 2019

Last edited Mon Apr 22, 2019, 06:57 PM - Edit history (1)

Technically, it’s Justice Department policy based upon Justice Department guidance (official opinions of the Justice Department that have precedential value).

The Justice Department has decided to limit itself and refuses to indict a sitting President. Indeed, they could do so, but they would be violating their own policy if they did, and it is clear that they are not going to do so in this case. It is also clear from his report that Meuller felt constrained by Justice Department policy.

It is absolutely true that the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York, for example, could indict the President. My point is that the Justice Department will not do so, despite the fact that Meuller concluded that President Trump had committed the crime known as “obstruction of justice.” Thus, Meuller calls upon the House of Representatives to do its duty and impeach the President, instead.

Thank you for your reply.

Response to Laelth (Original post)

Response to Laelth (Original post)

calimary

(82,526 posts)
23. I wrote postcards to her at our Indivisible Postcard Party yesterday.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 04:08 PM
Apr 2019

Last edited Mon Apr 22, 2019, 04:58 PM - Edit history (1)

WASHINGTON DC OFFICE:

1236 Longworth H.O.B. (that stands for House Office Building)
Washington DC 20515
Phone (202) 225 - 4965


SAN FRANCISCO DISTRICT OFFICE:

90 7th Street
Suite 2-800
San Francisco, CA 94103
(415) 556 - 4862


I just called the San Francisco number. You'll be prompted to press 2 to leave a message.

So I did! There's no reason to waste time fretting about how this might divide the country. Heck, we're ALREADY divided!!! Worse than I can remember, at any point in my life! Shit - bush v Gore wasn't even this contentious, and I thought that was the worst ever - until the Iraq War and how they lied us into it darkened our national door.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
25. Excellent.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 04:20 PM
Apr 2019

I will send her a letter as well, but the real discussion on this matter is happening today, in DC, at 5 PM. I hope it goes well. My letter is likely to be too late to make any difference, and that’s why I turned to DU to express my opinion on this subject.

Thank you for the reply.

Lotus54

(44 posts)
52. I hope you don't mind Calimary
Tue Apr 23, 2019, 12:43 PM
Apr 2019

I want to paste your post to my Facebook Page and the Facebook Page of Need to Impeach.

The more the public know about the sources to contact Nancy Pelosi the more chances people will be proactive in their approach of addressing the Speaker on what they feel about the Impeachment Process.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. You did the right thing by calling the Speaker's Office and sending her a postcard.

It is now entirely up to us to voice our opinion. And tell our Representatives what we believe needs to be accomplished after reading Mueller Report.

The voice of the "Many" creates a whole lot of difference in the world we live!!

jalan48

(14,034 posts)
38. I've read here on DU the Dems may not have the House votes to impeach. That would make the process
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 08:25 PM
Apr 2019

a big flop and embarrassing as well IMHO.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
41. Prior to the release of the Meuller report, I assume.
Tue Apr 23, 2019, 08:09 AM
Apr 2019

Personally, I didn’t support impeachment, either, until the report’s release. At this point, impeachment seems like the right thing to do.

Your point is well-taken, but I doubt that Speaker Pelosi will bring Articles of Impeachment until she is nearly certain that they will pass. Time will tell.

Thank you for the reply.

Jakes Progress

(11,149 posts)
47. What they admit in private and vote in public
Tue Apr 23, 2019, 11:09 AM
Apr 2019

are two different things. They will not remove trump from office. Name ten you think would vote against trump.

Jakes Progress

(11,149 posts)
46. Yea! Let's Par-Tay! Whoop Whoop.
Tue Apr 23, 2019, 11:08 AM
Apr 2019

Last edited Tue Apr 23, 2019, 02:35 PM - Edit history (1)

Of course we might put trump back in and solidify the republican senate. And not to mention that there is no way we get a conviction in the Senate.

But won't we feel righteous and good about ourselves. We can stamp our little feet and not sacrifice our sense of how really good we are. Fuck the country. We can feel good about ourselves.

stillcool

(32,626 posts)
54. I'm all for impeachment..
Tue Apr 23, 2019, 02:45 PM
Apr 2019

if Congress is given the time to investigate all of Trump's dealings. This rush to impeach, just to impeach, and have things go no further ...I don't understand.

Jakes Progress

(11,149 posts)
61. It's all about headlines
Wed Apr 24, 2019, 01:53 PM
Apr 2019

and feeling superior. It is not about doing the best thing to get rid of republicans.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
50. I was originally against it.
Tue Apr 23, 2019, 12:11 PM
Apr 2019

Charles Blow, Elizabeth Warren, Dan Rather and others have convinced me that this needs to happen.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
56. Same here.
Tue Apr 23, 2019, 06:02 PM
Apr 2019

We will be condoning Trump’s behavior if we do not stand up for the rule of law.

😎👍🏼

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