So the Russians DID have ability to hack vote tallies (NYT)

[cilla4progress]

SNIP:

It was the day before the 2016 presidential election, and at the Volusia County elections office, near Florida’s Space Coast, workers were so busy that they had fallen behind on their correspondence.

Lisa Lewis, the supervisor of elections, stumbled on an important email sent to her and three others in the office, by then a week old, that appeared to be from VR Systems, the vendor that sells electronic voter list equipment to nearly every county in the state. “Please take a look at the instructions for our modernised products,” it said, using British spelling and offering an attachment. Something about the email seemed off.

“It was from Gmail,” Ms. Lewis said. “They don’t have Gmail.”

Ms. Lewis, it turned out, was right to be suspicious. Though it had VR Systems’ distinctive logo, with a red V and a blue R, the email contained a malicious Trojan virus, and it originated not from the elections vendor but from the Russian military intelligence unit known as the G.R.U. The email had been sent to 120 elections email accounts across Florida.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Link, please?

[cilla4progress]

2. Will try...

NYT...

[bluegrassvol]

112. Iv'e got the solution

Lets start a go fund me page and get enough moola for a one way ticket to >>>>>>> you guessed it Russia for numero uno. That will be some real progress.

[cilla4progress]

3. Here you go.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/26/us/florida-russia-hacking-election.html

NYT last night!

Note change in OP title, too.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Thanks!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. According to this article, they did not change any vote totals.

But they could have changed voter registration records.

In the end, it appeared that most counties successfully fended off the attack. In response to a public record request from a reporter, officials in Broward County, who had initially denied they had been the target of any spearphishing attempt, reported that at least three people there had been targeted with the fake VR email. It had been blocked by spam filters, they said.

“Did we get hacked? No. We did get phished,” said Steve Vancore, a spokesman for the Broward elections office. “A rock was thrown at the window, the window didn’t break. The rock bounced off.”

However, they will keep trying, and that's apparently just fine with Trump.

[triron]

13. And that's all it would take to change votes to non-votes.

Amounts virtually to the same thing as vote tallies.

[cilla4progress]

20. That's my thinking...

Only a hop, skip and a jump to changing the outcome.

Again, I say: look at the margins in MI, WI, and PA in 2016 for trump - less than 1%.

IF someone was going to hack the vote tally, say, the GRU, would this not be the tactic? So much harder to prove, if only a slight edge.

Sorry..this is where I go all conspiratorial.

[triron]

26. Guess I do too. Except the circumstantial evidence strongly suggests

it happened, and may likely happen in 2020 (perhaps even moreso).

[sharedvalues]

61. Not to mention 2018 FL elections: Scott (Sen) stole it?

It seems very likely that:
Scott: FL-Sen
DeSantis: FL-Sen
Kemp: GA-Gov

All are illegitimate.
First, we know each used standard GOP voter suppression. Do we know the Russians didn’t hack any of their registrations or votes?

[NewsCenter28]

115. We don't know

And the Russians probably did! GOP, Trump, Putin, Kemp, Scott, Desantis, enjoy eternity in hell with your leader Satan!

[SMoss]

147. Left out McTurtle

McTurtle owes Rusdians millions.

[sharedvalues]

175. The GOP stole the seat for Scott with voter suppression.

[delisen]

183. 2016 GA was warned by DHS. Kemp accused Democrats

Instead of safeguarding the GA system, Kemp accused Democrats of being hackers.

[sharedvalues]

190. Kemp stole the Governorship. Stacey Abrams is the rightful governor

[watoos]

17. How do you know votes weren't changed?

How many machines were pulled out and independently audited?

[triron]

27. I bet not many, if any.

[Clarity2]

52. Jill Stein

said she checked, and we’re all good. 🥴

[diva77]

125. Do you have a link to where this was reported?

[cilla4progress]

160. See above.

Friday NYT.

[diva77]

171. I was asking post#52 to give a link to where Jill Stein had been quoted.

There is no mention of Jill Stein in the NYT article, AFAIK.

[triron]

172. Either you are trying to be witty or just annoying. I'm not sure.

[diva77]

173. If someone is going to make a statement such as the one in #52,

it is important to point out the source or include a sarcasm emoji.

Election fraud is a serious matter. Saying that Jill Stein [checked the machines] and "we're all good" is a false statement.

Again, if it's a joke, then use a sarcasm emoji. If it's a fact, then state your source.

[triron]

174. I didn't take that statement as more than a jibe at Stein.

I doubt the author was being literal except in a light sense.
They can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.

[Clarity2]

195. Of course it

was sarcasm. I think we all know Stein started the recount to give a false sense that there were no votes changed.

[diva77]

196. another statement with no sourced facts to back it up

I'm done with this exchange.

[Clarity2]

197. Huh?

Its a fact that stein called a recount in some states after the election. She didnt finish the recounts. She crowd funded donations. Then KEPT the remaining funds. Do you need a LINK to prove it? This is common knowledge.

[diva77]

199. the recount faced intense obstruction by the well funded rethugs - including legal costs for

bogus suits filed by rethugs that went to court and diverted money away from getting to the recount.

Here's a more accurate version of what happened:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election_recounts



SNIP

Following Republican nominee Donald Trump's presumed electoral college victory in the United States presidential election of 2016, a group of computer scientists, cyber security experts, and election monitors raised concerns about the integrity of the election results. They urged the campaign staff of Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, who had conceded the campaign on November 9,[1] to petition for a recount in three key states: Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.[2] When the Clinton campaign declined to file for recounts, Green Party presidential nominee Jill Stein agreed to spearhead the recount effort on November 23, on the grounds that unspecified "anomalies" may have affected the election's outcome. The Clinton team subsequently pledged to support the recount efforts "in order to ensure the process proceeds in a manner that is fair to all sides."[3][4][5] President-elect Trump and his supporters filed legal motions in all three states to prevent the recounts.[6] Two other states were the subject of recount bids that were separate from Stein's efforts in the Rust Belt states: American Delta Party/Reform Party presidential candidate Rocky De La Fuente filed for a partial recount in Nevada on November 30,[7] and three Florida citizens filed for a complete hand recount in their state on December 6.[8]

SNIP

SNIP
Several academics and specialists submitted testimony in support of Stein's lawsuit seeking a recount.[37] Poorvi Vora of George Washington University stated that vote-scanning machinery could be infected with malware that changes the record of votes, and a manual count of paper ballots would be the only way to know if there had been vote manipulation.[37] Professor Philip Stark from the University of California also claimed that Trump's winning margin in Wisconsin could easily be within the margin of error for optical voting systems.[37] Despite this testimony, Dane County Judge Valerie Bailey-Rihn refused to order a hand recount for the whole state, even though she encouraged them to recount by hand.[38]

On December 2, a Trump Super PAC filed a federal lawsuit to halt the recount in Wisconsin arguing that it fails the United States Supreme Court's test for Equal Protection in the Florida election recount process established in Bush v. Gore.[39] U.S. District Judge James Peterson denied the emergency halt to the recount, allowing the process to continue at least until a December 9 court hearing.[40] At that hearing, Judge Petersen declined to halt the recount, noting that the process was nearly complete and there was virtually no chance that it would change the results of the election. While the lawsuit was not dismissed, Petersen said he would decide whether to do so within the next few days.[41]

SNIP

Now I am truly done with this exchange regardless of how many posts respond to this one.


bold font added for emphasis

[Clarity2]

201. She was sitting with putin

Your ignorance is astounding. I think youre the only dem Ive ever heard defend her. Whose side are you on?

Your user name is very appropriate. You obviously only accept having the last word.

/over /done /blocked

[Clarity2]

198. Link

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jill-steins-recount-cash-pays-for-her-russia-legal-defense

[delisen]

184. Yes Stein who went to Moscow and sat with Putin

Peskov, and now disgraced General Michael Flynn at their celebration in Moscow.

[Lonestarblue]

59. I don't think the programming was checked in any voting machine.

The voting machine manufacturers claim that their internal workings are trade secrets and do not allow independent experts to verify how the machines were programmed. That needs to change because it’s far too easy for a vendor to switch votes through the programming of its machines. It happened here in 2018 in the Senate race. An older example is the 2004 Ohio election for Bush with all the issues surrounding the Diebold CEO and their voting machines.

[diva77]

68. +1000 This. Plus, sometimes it is virtually impossible to detect malicious code -- "easter eggs"

even if given full access to investigate.

[erronis]

70. Maybe the four voting machine manufacturers should self-police, like the AMA, Pharma, ABA, etc.

That way they can tell the gov't that "We've checked everything and we're certified."

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

97. I don't know that. I was just noting what the article said.

[uponit7771]

93. Come on, they can do much more with access than change "totals"

We know this already

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

96. Of course. I was just noting what the article said, not offering an opinion.

[uponit7771]

99. +1

[Maine-i-acs]

126. That We Know Of!!!

fachrissakes
just because we did not catch them in the act
does not guarantee that they did not do things we haven't found out about yet!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

130. I'm just pointing out what the article said; I didn't *write* it, FFS!

[Maine-i-acs]

158. Understood! Not pointing fingers

just a little sensitive to this approach by the articles in general and the election officals' generic response:
:"this is the only time we found it, so we know that's the only time they did it"

[triron]

131. Bottom line: the Russians wanted Trump to win and they tried (and were

successful in an unknown number) to hack into all 50 states election
systems. Exit polls and pre-election polls pointed to an HRC win.
According to an analysis done by Ron Baiman actual votes vs exit polls
skewed toward Trump with odds of 1 in 750000!

[ElementaryPenguin]

135. I read somewhere a figure exponentially higher than that...

Evidently, 23 of 25 states with exit polls - the final vote tallies were off - always the results were skewed in favor of Trump - if mistakes were random - they wouldn't always go one way. They stated that the odds of were the same as your odds of flipping a coin - and getting heads 23 times in a row - in which the odds are some gazillion to one!

With all the work Putin had done -still, on the eve of the election Hillary was heavily favored to win. WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANYONE THING THAT PUTIN AND THE RUSSIANS WOULD JUST SETTLE FOR LOSING - AND NOT HACK THE VOTE TOTALS? BECAUSE IT WOULD BE TOO MEAN?

Princeton University computer experts were asked just BEFORE the 2016 election if Russia had the ability to hack our vote total - and their answer was a resounding "YES!!" "IT WOULD BE CHILD'S PLAY FOR THE RUSSIANS!"

[triron]

139. The odds of getting 23 head (or tails) out of 25 tosses

is 25!/[(23!)(2!)] * (1/2)**23 where ! means 'factorial' and ** means to the power of. Factorial means that number times 1 less times 2 less etc down to 1.
For example 4! = 4*3*2*1. and (1/2)**3= 1/2*1/2*1/2=1/8.
(1/2)**23 = 1/1024*1/1024*1/8= 1/8381608. The 1st part of the product above is 25*24/2=300, so the entire product is 300/8381608 or roughly
a little better than 1 chance in 30000. Someone should check me; it's late.

[triron]

163. Ron Baiman, Ph. D., says it was 26 out of 28 states. Here is his latest update of his paper.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/319205877_Updated_Expanded_and_Corrected_Affidavit_Version_US_2016_Unadjusted_Exit_Poll_Discrepancies_Fit_Chronic_Republican_Vote_-_Count_Rigging_not_Random_Statistical_Patterns

[Chin music]

6. We all knew it.

The gops platform is SO anti American, that having foreigners vote (essentially) for them, is the new normal. Voter fraud indeed. Computers are going to destroy this country.

[loves_da_dems]

24. You bet

How else could the Repubs win? No more machines, paper ballots only.

[Chin music]

31. "It's the software/updates stupid."

Not calling you stupid just using an old meme, bastardized, to make a point.

[elleng]

7. *Slipped into the long-anticipated special counsel report

on Russian interference in the 2016 election last week was a single sentence that caused a stir throughout the state and raised new questions about the vulnerability of the nation’s electoral systems.

Although the spearphishing attempt in Florida had first been brought to light nearly two years ago when The Intercept cited a secret National Security Agency report, state officials said they were certain no elections computers had been compromised. The Mueller report turned that assertion on its head. “The F.B.I.,” it said, “believes that this operation enabled the G.R.U. to gain access to the network of at least one Florida county government.”

In an interview on Friday, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida took it one step further, saying that Russian hackers not only accessed a Florida voting system, but were “in a position” to change voter roll data.

The report has sent Florida officials scurrying once again for specifics. Which county? Could there have been more than one?

“They won’t tell us which county it was. Are you kidding me?” an exasperated Ron DeSantis, Florida’s Republican governor, said at a news conference in Miami on Thursday. “Why would you have not said something immediately?”'

[cilla4progress]

8. Thread

Link to tweet

?s=19

[Loki Liesmith]

9. That's not what the article says

Voter rolls. Not vote tallies.

They are not remotely the same.

[cilla4progress]

11. Is that what this means?

"..this operation enabled the G.R.U. to gain access to the network of at least one Florida county government."

[Loki Liesmith]

12. Yes. It's the network they store their voter rolls on.

[mr_lebowski]

16. *IF* (not saying they could, saying IF) they could selectively un-register people?

It actually becomes VERY SIMILAR, my friend.

Not 'the same', but ... a powerful weapon to affect final vote tallies, indeed.

[triron]

28. Yes, it turns a 'vote' into a non-vote.

[mopinko]

69. no. they could turn registered voters into unregistered voters.

who could then vote provisional, or same day register, depending on the laws in that state.

and that's very different from being able to touch vote totals.

[triron]

84. Who counts the provisional ballots that are actually cast?

How do people know they are not registered if they are 'unregistered' just before the election? Most states don't have same day registration (only 17 counting D. C. currently do).
No I still claim it changes the votes.

[Ms. Toad]

87. They know they are not registered

when they show up to vote. If told at that time that they are not registered, they are still entitled to vote a provisional ballot.

There is a period of time in every jurisdiciton for clearing provisional ballots. But in the case of individuals who are suddenly not registered, there will be records of prior voting, or of prior voting rosters that include their names. If they were suddenly unregistered, there would be a documentation trail as to why that happened (request to be taken off of the rolls or records of a purge). Unregistration doesn't just happen without a trail - absent a hack.

Same day registration has nothing to do with this issue - it is a matter of voting provisionally, then clearing your registration status. A royal pain, but not the same as not being able to vote at all. Once your status is cleared, your provisional ballot is counted.

Altering the list of who is entitled to vote is, as others have said, not even remotely the same as altering votes that were actually cast. We're supposed to be the reality-based party. Repeated assertions like those made in this thread shift us into a party based on fantasy.

[triron]

91. You said it yourself "unregistration does not just happen without a trail -

absent a hack". And just because a polling worker has a list of registrants
does not necessarily mean that voter will be counted as registered when
the votes are added up. How would you know if they were not corrupted
between the two? I am sure the Russian hackers were very good at masking
their work.

[Ms. Toad]

107. Most jurisdictions have a way to verify the provisional ballot has been cleared

If you were required to vote provisionally, you have a responsibility to follow up. If an unusual number of people in a voting district turn up not registered after having been registered, no amount of hacking will cover that up.

[triron]

116. What % of people that vote provisionally follow up??

So what if the hacking 'doesn't cover it up'. Will that be even be noticed?
Or if it is, what will be decided happened? Who decides? Who decides
whether certain provisional votes are counted?

[Ms. Toad]

129. Every state has its own procedures for clearing provisional ballots.

In every state that includes the decision being made with the participation of representatives from both parties and, in most states, bipartisan observers.

As for whether it will be discovered - it will if voters are responsible when they unexpectedly learn that the are not registered.

If you're that concerned that there really are voters being unregistered, volunteer with your local democratic party to be an election observer and learn more about the process. Figure out for yourself whether there are adequate processes to catch a hack that would have unregistered voters. You're speaking from ignorance (not an insult - just a fact. From your comments, you obviously have not been intimately involved, beyond casting a ballot.) It's pretty easy, and you would feel a lot more comfortable about the process - specifically about how elections work. In the jurisdictions where I've been an observer (one heavily Democratic and one heavily Republican) the Republicans had a harder time filling their observer slots. So if anyone has reason to be concerned about the process not being followed in an unbiased manner, my experience suggests it ought to be Republicans.

[Loki Liesmith]

47. Irrelevant

The post’s title is very clear about what it’s claiming and as it stands it is a lie.

[triron]

50. That statement seems pretty bold to me. Please explain.

[Ms. Toad]

88. Read.the.article.

Nothing in the article says one word about altering vote tallies.

[NewsCenter28]

113. It would bring down the republic

If we knew that our votes didn’t really matter, that the GOP and their Russian friends just hack the tallies or downright steal every election they really need to win.

Sucks that you’re mad at the OP and not the KGOP and Russia making your vote irrelevant!!

[Ms. Toad]

123. Not mad - it is just irresponsible to perpetuate false news.

Even more so when the article doesn't support the headline assertion.

[kcr]

29. Yeah. It's not like removing people from the voter roles has any effect or anything

So, totally not the same thing! Move along, now!

[mr_lebowski]

30. +1 said the same thing just above :)

[Loki Liesmith]

46. Put words in your own mouth

Not mine.

[Tiggeroshii]

53. I was actually thinking the same thing...

Thank you

[Captain Stern]

67. They are very much the same.

Voter rolls. Vote tallies.

Rolls, tallies, whatever....it all pretty much means exactly the same thing, or almost the same thing, or sort of the same thing, or things that are in some way similar.

[uponit7771]

94. Same effect

[robbedvoter]

150. and messing with the rolls does not affect talies at all, right?

🤦?♀️

[SoCalDem]

10. Perfect plan..reminiscent of Ohio 2004

Slice off tens of thousands in areas that are predominantly Dem...(priorly "cleansed" ), and then claim that people did not show up.. Over a large state, the totals can be finagled to "win" by a smidge..Too bad...suckers..

[CaptainTruth]

21. Plus this frim Ohio 2004, which the MSM ignored.

New Court Filing Reveals How the 2004 Ohio Presidential Election Was Hacked

[link:https://truthout.org/articles/new-court-filing-reveals-how-the-2004-ohio-presidential-election-was-hacked/|

[robbedvoter]

149. Too bad Kerry recalled his lawyers ff the tarmac

Decided it was "God's test for him". My vote was no f*ing test!

[triron]

14. Bet this is just the tip of the iceberg too.

[bluestarone]

15. My thought as well

Someday we will actually learn that VOTES were changed!! Until then it's just a guessing game. (i believe votes were actually messed with, but no proof)

[Chin music]

18. Me three.

That was the first thing all the rotten gop said..."no votes were changed." So, assume they were. They lie about everything. Absolutely everything.
Hope for the best, but, plan for the worst.
We need an American Spring.....let's not wait til summer.

[watoos]

22. We will never learn that votes were changed,

because we don't pull out machines and independently audit them. The Republican owners of the machines claim proprietary rights for their software.

I have been voting into a black hole in Pa. ever since we went to machines. No paper trail, not that one would matter.

[bluestarone]

25. Fully agree!

Wish there were a way because i say if RETHUGS say no they are FUCKING LYING!! I base everything OPPOSITE of what they say!

[LiberalFighter]

19. They could indirectly change the vote outcome.

If they have access to voter registration they could change the voter's status. Hopefully, the system is setup to log changes and require specific authorization.

[cilla4progress]

23. WI / MI / PA margins 2016

Look at the margins in MI, WI, and PA in 2016 for trump - less than 1%.

IF someone was going to hack the vote tally, say, the GRU, would this not be the tactic? So much harder to prove, if only a slight edge.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/12/01/donald-trump-will-be-president-thanks-to-80000-people-in-three-states/?utm_term=.a23bf6baa315

Hope there's no pay wall.

[triron]

33. The Florida vote difference was about 1% I believe.

Exit polls showed Hillary winning Florida. The republicans were in charge
during the 2016 election in Florida (and 2018). Both were stolen. Predictit
at one time during the actual election had Hillary with a 97% chance of winning
(I saw it).

[cilla4progress]

37. I know.

All these models can't be wrong.

Maybe they only triggered it ON election night, the GRU, when they saw it trending Hillary at the outset?

I hear you, triron. I think we've been on the same page on this here, all along.

[uponit7771]

95. Whoa, no wonder the GOP in Florida is fighting the convict voting law

[triron]

100. What do you mean?

[uponit7771]

103. KGOP is putting in laws to stop ex cons from voting after the state voted

To restore Thier voting rights

[SunSeeker]

54. Of course. That is why Manafort gave WI, PA & MI polling data to Kalimnik, a Russian spy.

He gave Konstantin Kilimnik—whom Mueller has alleged is a Russian spy—75 pages of recent polling data. That gave the GRU the info they needed to know which voters to target or de-register.
The Mueller Report states Manafort briefed Kilimnik "on the state of the Trump campaign and Manafort's plan to win the election. That briefing encompassed the campaign's messaging and its internal polling data. According to Gates, it also included discussion of ‘battleground’ states, which Manafort identified as Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Minnesota.”

[cilla4progress]

76. Zactly.

Plain daylight.

Strong evidence would be comparing votes in those states to other states based only on Russian disinformation campaign.

Control for actual mechanical manipulation of vote totals.

E.g., was the FB / social media campaign different - say, more targeted, in those 3 states?

Or is there another factor that explains HRC's extremely close losses there?

Has anyone done this research?

[triron]

86. Yep. How comes democrats don't talk about this?

Where is Rachel, Lawrence, Nicole, Ari?

[cilla4progress]

90. I should send Rachel

the question. I think she has a way of contacting her. Tip line?

Probably too much for them to chase!

[mjvpi]

56. It's the undervote. That would be the way to do it.

How can you audit if someone decides not to vote for one office? There were 75,000 people inDetroit who didn’t cast a vote for president. They voted for everything else on the ballot, but not president.

[MichMan]

71. That number is not correct

There were approx that many statewide, not in Detroit. It was higher than normal, but in Michigan write in votes do not get counted unless the candidate registers ahead of time as a write in. Since Bernie did not, anyone who voted for him as a write in had their vote recorded as a no vote.

[triron]

122. So? Same explanation holds regardless.

[MichMan]

136. Using incorrect data to support a hypothesis makes the conclusion less credible

The thing is, that once the underlying supporting data is incorrect, it then makes it difficult to convince people that your point still stands regardless.

[mjvpi]

138. 87,810 undervotes statewide.

Firing the recount 70.000 vote in Detroit registered downticket results but did not register a vote for the presidential contest. I checked my numbers. The total under votes in Michigan were almost double from 2012.

[MichMan]

152. Here are the exact numbers for both 2016 and 2012

Here are the vote totals in all of Wayne County ( where Detroit is located) in both 2016 & for comparison 2012. In 2016, there were 10,621 undervotes for president in the entire county, so this figure of 70,000 in Detroit alone is a complete lie.

These numbers were taken from the Michigan Secretary of State website.

Keep in mind that in Michigan, Write In votes only count when the candidate pre registers as a write in. That is why any votes for Bernie Sanders, Mickey Mouse, Elvis etc. etc. etc. are all counted as a No Vote. Most people attribute the additional undervotes in 2016 compared to 2012 was due to 1) write in votes for Bernie or 2) people registering a protest vote against Clinton /Trump. This makes sense when you see that the votes for alternative parties like Libertarian or Green were substantually higher in 2016 compared to previous years.


Total votes 788,459

Clinton 519,444
Trump 228,993
Johnson 18,801
Stein 7,784
Castle 1,718
Soltysik 437
Registered write ins 661

That is a total for Wayne County of 777,838 votes for president = 10,621 undervotes


2012

Total votes 822,575

Obama 595,846
Romney 213,814
Stein 2,752
Goode Jr. 1,830
Anderson 692
Registed write ins 891

That is a total for Wayne County of 815,825 votes for president = 6,750 undervotes

[mjvpi]

153. Thank you for the numbers!

[forthemiddle]

119. I was part of the recount in Wisconsin

My county did all hand recounts, and those recounts (along with the rest of the States), were right on. In fact Trump actually gained a few hundred votes State wide.
As for the hacked voter rolls, in Wisconsin that wouldn’t have mattered because they have same day registration. So even if someone was nefariously scrubbed from the voter rolls, all they had to do was reregister and they could vote.
Being part of that recount really instilled a sense of calm in me about the final vote, even if it didn’t end up the way I wanted.
I encourage everyone to get involved with both working the polls, and recounts if they are needed. You will see the truly bipartisan way our election officials run the ship!

[triron]

121. How would a recount detect alterations of voter registrations?

Seems like it just does over again what the original count did.

[forthemiddle]

127. It wouldn't.

My point was that in Wisconsin they have same day registration, so if someone went to vote and they weren’t on the roll they could reregister right away and still vote so hacking of those rolls would make no difference.
I brought up the recount as a way to reassure people that hacking of the voting totals also didn’t happen, and that was proven during the recount.
I am not commenting on other states, but I have 100% confidence that Trump won Wisconsin, even if that’s not the outcome we would have liked.

[triron]

133. None of your argument is bulletproof.

How would the voter even know so they needed to register if even the poll worker
doesn't know, which I claim is plausible? You think the hackers were not clever
enough to mask that? btw which party had the SOS and governorship in 2016?
Also any actual votes hacked in the election would have escaped detection
in the recount. How would the recount detect changed votes. The best way to
avoid this is paper and hand counted ballots.

[forthemiddle]

145. I am confused about your argument.

If a voter goes to the polls to vote, and the poll worker doesn’t find them on the roles because Russia purged them, the just send them over to another line to reregister. After they reregister they automatically go vote. And their vote is counted.
As for recounting the votes, they are all on paper, and in my county all recounted by hand.
As for the SOS, and Governor (Wisconsin SOS is and was a Democrat) they don’t run the recounts. Those are done in the Counties, in public with equal amounts of Democrats and Republicans.
I would love to be able to tell you that Russians hacked the votes, and Clinton really won, but that is not what happened.
My County is a swing County (although getting redder every election). It was won by Obama in 2008, Romney in 2012, and Trump 2016.

I am presenting the facts, as I saw them, in my County of Wisconsin. I am 100% sure the election was correct, because I was there, so if you doubt my story, present your own, facts, not conspiracy theories.

[triron]

168. If your county uses paper ballots that are hand counted, good for them.

That does improve confidence in results from the counting of votes that were from registered voters.
You say anyone who was removed from the registration rolls by hacking would know when they voted
because the poll worker would notify them. That's where there may be a problem. What if (for instance)
the poll worker gets his or her information from one source which hasn't been modified by hacking but when
the counting is done the source has somehow surreptitiously been modified so that vote is deemed ineligible.
If a provisional ballot is issued, what happens if the voter fails in some way to satisfy a certifiable result (e.g.
ballot received late, signature doesn't match, ballot not filled out 'correctly', etc.)? I know that doesn't affect
the difference between the original count and the recount. But it still can change votes counted from voter intent.
And then maybe your county reflected voter intent 100% but this may very well not be true for other counties.

[Mc Mike]

144. Did you see the mess at the Waukesha county recount, in '11?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x593145

There's a 9 min. vid in the above DU op, showing a firsthand recount observer's sworn testimony, with picture evidence, showing that in repug strongholds in WI, they openly subverted the '11 recount.

That's how Prosser the strangler stayed on the state supreme court.

[cureautismnow]

154. Milwaukee County was not hand recounted.

Also, there were more than 50,000 Milwaukee county people who voted for a presidential candidate in 2012, but not 2016. With approximately 65% of the machine counted vote in Milwaukee county for HC, it would have been almost a dead heat with those 50,000 "missing" votes. OTOH, Dane county had about 6,000 more people vote for a presidential candidate than in 2012. Why did the Milwaukee people stay home, but not the Dane people? It doesn't make sense.

[forthemiddle]

156. Those statistics aren't part of my argument

My argument is, that in the County I recounted, I have 100% confidence in.

Why did less people in Milwaukee vote? I have no idea, but it wasn’t because of stolen votes, which is what this what this OP was about.

The assumption is that the majority of African American voters in Wisconsin are in Milwaukee. 2012 Obama was on the ballot, and Milwaukee voters were much more enthusiastic about him than they were for Clinton. Clinton never even showed up to ask people for their votes!

Dane County is overwhelming the Democratic stronghold. They are always enthusiastic voters, and never miss an election, so historically the vote goes up there every single election. Without Dane County, Wisconsin would probably be one of the reddest States in the Union. They truly carry the State for the rest of us.

Again I was bring the facts about the County I was involved with, and within that County I have total confidence.

[cureautismnow]

164. How did the new Voter ID Law impact your county?

The link below implies that it may have contributed to the decline in turnout in Milwaukee county.

https://www.wiscontext.org/how-and-where-trump-won-wisconsin-2016

[jimlup]

157. As a resident of Michigan

I have a strong feeling, and it is only that (I have no direct evidence but I also know the Detroit precincts were messed up and I have to ask if wasn't a couple of KGB gremlins helping things along...) that the Michigan election was hacked. I can think of several ways to do it. I'm sure the KGB is smarter than I am. Seems like a no-brainer actually. I wish we had followed through with the damn recounts. Further, I think careful research on the voting profiles and trends needed to be done by knowledgeable political scientists to see if all this crap we are hearing about these alleged "Trump voters" is really true. I suspect that it isn't as true as we've come to believe.

[lindysalsagal]

32. HO. LEE. SHITE!!

Stolen election. Impeach!

[triron]

34. Like Frank Figliuzi told Rachel Maddow last night, we may never know.

[MFM008]

66. We know

.....

[underthematrix]

35. Yes. Trump was hacked into the White House

by the Russians. And now they plan to do it again in 2020 with the House, the Senate and the US presidency.

[cilla4progress]

42. Hopefully if so,

the people will rise up.

[robbedvoter]

151. hackers are still there, moe entrenched than ever. People did rise up last time too

[Chin music]

36. Meanwhile the head of DHS cries and explains why she just hasnt been correcting it. We dont need sob

stories from K Nielsen as to why she just....couldnt...help. (Or fix it.) What keeps American more 'defended" than honest, accurate voting? Job one KN, job one. And you failed, FIX IT ALREADY LADY.

[EleanorR]

38. She resigned a few weeks ago

[cilla4progress]

39. No, Mulvaney instructed her

not to bring it up in front of trump!

I gotta go outside. This is making me sick.

[FailureToCommunicate]

45. Right behind you! Sickening.

[fwvinson]

40. Russia changed votes.

We have been lied to so often, we cant know what is not a lie. They have said 26 state voting machines were infected. By Russia. What the fuck do you think happened. That they just wanted to see if they could do it? The votes were changed. I contend the states of Minn., Pa, Ws, Mich, Florida and Ohio were changed, for sure. That means 20 more states votes were also changed. Russia changed the votes.

[triron]

43. Perhaps also N. Carolina and Georgia. Maybe even Arizona

and Nevada (even though Hillary still managed to win it).

[cilla4progress]

44. I believe this, too.

How long do you think it is until this is out in the open and accepted as true?

[at140]

57. Russia can not change paper ballots!

ELECTRONIC Black box voting is sacrificing reliability for speed of results. Crazy!

[ChiTownDenny]

60. Iraq had WMD so we went to war.

Yeah, our government lies to us. I don't believe Russia accessed voting systems yet nothing nefarious occurred.

[Ms. Toad]

89. Link to a source, please.

I'm pretty sure that these were voter registration machiens, not voting machines. Every story that anyoe on DU has claimed demonstrated that voting machines were hacked ultimately turns out to be about voter registration machines. I assume this is the same.

[Baltimike]

155. None of the machines were examined, so there are no links...there wasn't

even an investigation.

[Ms. Toad]

177. I was asking for a link to the assertion

that voting machines were tampered with. It was asserted as if it was a known fact - and most people making that assertion cite to articles about voter registration machines, not voting machines. I suspect the source for the post to which I responded was also discussing voter registration machines.

[Baltimike]

181. and I am asserting that none of the machines were tested

which would be necessary for a link.

[triron]

182. Just for grins see my post 180.

May add some fuel to the fire.

[Baltimike]

185. It is absolutely ridiculous that we have come this far, and people still try

to maintain that Russia didn't attack us.

[Ms. Toad]

187. A very specific assertion was made.

They have said 26 state voting machines were infected. By Russia.

I am asking to the link for where that assertion came from. No testing of machines is required to provide a link to the source of that assertion.

When similar specific assertions have been made, every single one was to an article about voter registration, not voting. This is likely the same. I'm giving the poster the benefit of hte doubt to prove me wrong, which only requires a source link, not testing machines.

[Baltimike]

188. and a very specific response was supplied

[Ms. Toad]

189. Not to the question I asked, it wasn't.

Telling me the moon is made of blue cheese is also specific. But it is not responsive to a request for a link to the source for the specific allegation that was made.

[triron]

178. Not being contentious but who is 'they'? I would really like to see more discussion. Never have

heard the 26 number mentioned before (21 and 39 yes).

[bluestarone]

41. To add to this is this. The way they are acting today scares me because

They probably have a big plan to STEAL the 2020 election AGAIN!! What can we do? totally helpless feeling here! VOTE like we never did before!!

[Honeycombe8]

49. I am guessing (just a guess) that if the winner is far ahead...

the hacking won't have the desired result. It's when it's close, like it was with Trump & Clinton.

But that's just a guess.

Yes, there's a real possibility that Russia could do it, again. Especially since we have a Trump DOJ as one of the watch guards. Will the Republican-led FBI report it? Who knows?

[Chin music]

79. Start making picket signs.

And get to your courthouse. And sit there w it. Even if you're alone. Others will come. Journey of a thousand miles starts w the first step. See France. If the toilet paper didn't get changed, they protest. That's where we can take a few lessons. We go WAY too easy on our elected officials. See Frances system of healthcare, workers benefits, etc etc etc, Not to mention the charming educated public. There's a reason why the world gave Notre Dame a billion....and it's not all bc of the church. imho.
We're outraged, and it seems we'd be better served getting together and making some noise. Not only is it rejuvenating to be w like minds, it's actually very rewarding, and gulp,....fun.
*****Make 2019 The American Spring. We deserve it.

[uponit7771]

101. Rudy G: "It's OK for Trump to get help from Russia on elections"

[Chin music]

109. "Afterall, NOBODIES DIED. " (Tell that to Heather Heyers Family R.I.P.)

[bluestarone]

111. YEA NOW they are changing their tunes a bit!!!

They always say shit AFTER getting caught!!!

[uponit7771]

165. What are they saying now? It looks like this issue came up 3 times last week and all 3

... times Red Don's campaign never said "Russia's not welcomed"

[Honeycombe8]

48. Of course they did. Our intel notified a bunch of states...

that the Russians (or a "foreign govt&quot was attempting to hack their election systems, and offered assistance to counter it. None of them took the govt up on that offer of assistance.

There is no doubt in MY mind that PA, and maybe Wisconsin & Michigan, election systems in certain districts were hacked. It would be easy to do. Identify a few purple districts in key states, get into their election systems, and mess with the results. Maybe it doesn't work if the winner is winning in a landslide, but that would maybe be enough to choose the winner, if it's close.

[brush]

58. Agreed. The 77k votes needed in those 3 states was just enough to swing the EC to trump.

No one can tell me that was not calculated down to the exact number of votes needed and somehow made to happen.

[Blue Owl]

51. K&R

Trump cheated again, just like always...

[at140]

55. Computer hackers are everyday occurrence in USA....does not need Russia or China or India

Hackers have got into major corporations such as a massive data breach at the credit rating bureau Experian has exposed the personal information of about 15 million people.

As many as 11 million Premera Blue Cross customers were affected by a hack. Anthem announced the following month that almost 80 million current and former customers’ personal information had been breached. In May, CareFirst BlueCross BlueShield, serving Maryland, Washington and Virginia, announced 1.1 million of its customers’ personal information had been compromised. UCLA Health System announced a data breach in July affecting 4.5 million people. In September, Excellus BlueCross BlueShield, based in upstate New York, said as many as 10 million people’s personal records had been exposed.

Ashley Madison users: Hackers stole and, in August, posted online the information for around 32 million users of the dating site, which is designed for married people looking for affairs.

Government employees: The hack, announced in June, impacted 21.5 million people who had a government background check, including government employees and some of their family members. More than 5 million fingerprints were also exposed–a security risk for spies abroad. The hack was so extensive that the United States reportedly pulled spies from China on Tuesday, since their identities may have been discovered.

Sony employees: Huge troves of company data were stolen and posted online, including sensitive executive emails, employees’ personal information, and copies of upcoming films. The hack led to the resignation of Amy Pascal, Sony’s co-chairman.

Home Depot shoppers: Last September, Home Depot announced it had been hacked, and 56 million payment cards were compromised, as well as 53 million email addresses.
EBay users: In a hack reported in May of 2014, personal information for more than 145 million active users–including login credentials and physical addresses–was compromised.

Target shoppers: In December 2013, 110 million customers’ personal and financial information was exposed.

[diva77]

128. +1,000,000 This! And yet SOS's continue to certify computerized "voting" equipment and

county budgets continue to spend up to hundreds of millions on machines, tabulators, insurance for the machines, insurance for the contractors, commissions for the vendors, software upgrade costs, maintenance costs (even tho' they really don't maintain them), memory cards, personnel to man voting centers for early voting, expense for sending out absentee/early voting ballots, secure storage and rental for space for machines in between elections; engineers to design ballots that are compatible with the machines, and yet, with all this and more, there remains uncertaintly as to whether machines will function on election day and early voting - there are always malfunctions, uncertainty as to whether enough machines are deployed at precincts so people don't have to wait in line for hours, uncertainty as to whether ballot design contains malicious code since ballot design comes from computers that are hooked up to internet etc. etc. etc...

...rather than simple paper ballots, hand-marked and hand-counted at the precinct level on election day. Paper ballots don't malfunction.

[at140]

132. You are 1000% right

Paper ballots will make it difficult for Putin to hack our elections.
But as you so eloquently point out how many people are making good money in the computerized voting machines business, they will not give up the bonanza.

It is similar to making marijuana illegal, because it supports cops, cop cars, court buildings, judges, prosecutors, publicly financed defense lawyers, bailiffs, court clerks, prison buildings, prison guards, prison food caterers, on and on. I don't use anything illegal, but it is amusing to see how those jobs are propped up.

[diva77]

170. interesting comparison -- great example to give when trying to explain the forced complexity for

the twofold purpose of stealing elections and profiting off of selling the machinery passed off as "voting" machines.

[UTUSN]

62. K&R

[Joe941]

63. This isn't news. It's been known for a long time.

[Smackdown2019]

64. Anti-Trumpism

What is sad, is the dumb orange clown does not realize that computer hackers that are anti-trump could go to Russia and launch a hacking campaign against him to make the election go to the democratic candidate. Its is not who is running, it is the protection of the legitimate votes of an election. We call that democracy, Trumpers call it winning an election.

[Ms. Toad]

65. That is NOT what the article says.

Last edited Sat Apr 27, 2019, 06:13 PM - Edit history (1)

In an interview on Friday, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida took it one step further, saying that Russian hackers not only accessed a Florida voting system, but were “in a position” to change voter roll data.

Yes, indirectly, it could impact the vote tally by preventing people from voting (easily, or at all) by removing them from the voter rolls. Anyone told they were not on the rolls would have been able to vote provisionally, once they sorted out why they were not on the rolls. If a significant number of people in one county (the potential situation here), it would have stood out like a sore thumb.

They also could have added people to the rolls - but to impact the tally they would then have had to recruit people and provide them with valid IDs at the addresses listed in the rolls and - in most states - a signature that matched the one on the books.

But please do not confuse vote tallies, with either actual votes, or with voters eligible to vote.

[stopdiggin]

75. Yes! So frustrating.

Reading through this string, and it's apparent that a lot of responders are just not getting it .. or don't care to get it. It was the voter REGISTRATION rolls! And (to date) no one has produced evidence that anything was changed.

Now you can be CERTAIN, and just KNOW, that this, that and the other thing definitely happened. But when you keep going back and talking about voting machines and vote tallies .. it indicates that you're missing the point. That is not what the Mueller report said. And not what Rubio and NYTimes says today. This is a rehash of OLD news. (thank you very much Marco!!)

[Blues Heron]

106. Putting our voting machines on the internet is the height of recklessness

[stopdiggin]

142. and they aren't

And they aren't.

Quoting: "Election systems are supposed to be air-gapped — disconnected from the internet and from other machines that might be connected to the internet." This is standard, and has been for some time. Vulnerabilities (and experts will say that EVERY system has some) are almost alway introduced through human error, and almost always downstream from the actual voting booth. We should also note that some of the more recent "hacks" heavily covered by the media (DEFCON, etc.) occurred against these same "stand-alone" (unconnected) machines. We could stand to up our game on a lot of different fronts it appears. I still contend that if you're looking for villains as far as "stealing" elections in the U.S. .. look to your local and state officials.

Having said that, I'm entirely in favor of a paper ballot system. At the very least in a back-up/failsafe or recount situation. I think a lot of the current "doubt' is manufactured .. but why not provide the voters some assurance?

[stopdiggin]

143. Poorly worded

Poor wording. I believe a lot of the "doubt" about actual manipulation of votes or vote tallies is manufactured. COULD have happened is still a good distance from DID happen. If you insist on better safeguards for 2020 .. more power to ya'.

[triron]

191. Computer scientists have a different take.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/21/magazine/the-myth-of-the-hacker-proof-voting-machine.html

Examining the election-management computer at the county’s office — the machine used to tally official election results and, in many counties, to program voting machines — they found that remote-access software had been installed on it.

Remote-access software is a type of program that system administrators use to access and control computers remotely over the internet or over an organization’s internal network. Election systems are supposed to be air-gapped — disconnected from the internet and from other machines that might be connected to the internet.

[stopdiggin]

205. acknowledged

Yes, I read that article too. Perhaps I was not clear in what I was trying to say. The voting machines are suppose to be air-gapped by design. What the NYTimes article is pointing out is sloppy IT work. (at least I think) Even allowing authorized personnel access represents a potential back-door vulnerability. And the people who maintain these machines should be fully aware of this. Certainly installing "remote" software is a STUNNING degree of ignorance. No excuses.

I will however go back and point out, again, that this thread (in fact the lead OP) consists of mostly breathless declarations that the "Russkies" definitely changed votes. There is no evidence that they did.

[uponit7771]

102. Provisional ballots are not counted instantly everywhere

[Ms. Toad]

108. They are not counted instantly anywhere. That's the point.

The provisional ballot allows people to vote, but segregates their votes until their registration status can be clarified. Once it is, the vote is counted and included in the final tally.

[uponit7771]

166. "once it is" 93% never ON THE DAY OF COUNT !! ... come on, we know this already

[Ms. Toad]

176. No idea what you're trying to say. n/t

[patphil]

72. Expect the worst here

Among other jobs, I worked as a computer programmer and system administrator for a quality control laboratory with a large pharmaceutical company.
I have no doubt that the Russians were capable of hacking state and local election systems, and actually did so.
I say this because state run computer systems usually are old and poorly funded.
They aren't properly defended and make easy targets.
To what extent I don't know, but it is quite likely that they did gain access to voter roles to get lists of potential target e-mails for election propaganda.
Also, it is quite likely they had the ability to mess with the vote counts in local voting stations, and in state election servers.
I don't think the altering of results was widespread or it would have been caught.
Much more likely they did this in "battle ground states" where minor changes to vote totals could switch an election, or states where republicans controlled the voting process and would not be interested in taking action about possible Russian meddling if it had resulted in a Republican victory.
Also, proprietary point of use voting stations are protected from review by the system vendors, so no one knows what their weaknesses are.
I expect this will be more widespread in 2020.
However, I think our computer people in the intelligence community have done a lot to prepare for this, even though Trump has actually tried to block their action.

We are in a state of cyberwar with Russia.
Any assistance given to the Russians is treason.

Patrick Phillips

[cilla4progress]

77. THIS!!!

...

[onetexan]

120. treason is only in times of war. Assistance given to Russians would probably be conspiracy.

[ecstatic]

73. We need paper receipts now! A hacked system is the only way we lose in 2020.

The only way.

[dflprincess]

80. Even with paper ballots the hacking would either

have to result in vote totals close enough to trigger an automatc recount or be so out of whack (i.e. an overwhelmingly Democratic district going Republican by a suspicious amount) that a recount was done.

In Minnesota random precincts/races do get recounts done and, to date, there have been no problems. We also have same day registration which makes purging the voter roles less likely but I do worry that our Secretary of State - who is as good as they come - seems to underestimate the hacking threats. At least that's his public stance.

[Oneironaut]

85. I think a combo could greatly benefit us.

Database-centric voting paired with audited/paper voting records. We need more eyes on the process.

[Chin music]

118. Diebold does it when you pull 5.00 out of the bank. How hard can it be?

Or whatever it is today.

[superpatriotman]

78. Moreover...

Rubio, Scott and the rest of the rotten ole party ripped Sen. Bill Nelson a new hole for even insinuating at the time that treachery was afoot.

Today the Miami Herald reported that Little Marco finally admitted that our election was, in fact, interfered with (offering no apologies or solutions.)

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/article229757064.html#storylink=mainstage_card3

Nelson was criticized last summer when he said in August that hackers had indeed gotten into the voter registration system and had “free rein” to move about. Nelson said at the time that he’d been asked by the Select Committee on Intelligence to help spread concerns about Russian hacking in the state’s elections system.

But Florida’s Division of Elections, following Nelson’s comments, explained that it had contacted the intelligence committee, FBI and Department of Homeland Security and found no evidence to back up Nelson’s claims. Scott called Nelson “confused” and said he was “making things up.” Nelson never did elaborate, consistently saying that the information was classified.

[duforsure]

81. Just a matter of time

Before its exposed they did change votes for trump to win , and he's an illegitimate president.

[Iggo]

82. If the ability exists, they have it.

And if they can do it, they will do it.

Why wouldn't they?

[Oneironaut]

83. This is an article everyone should read first before making assumptions.

It doesn’t seem the hackers had access to vote totals - only voter registration records. However, I find this unforgivable. Data so precious should at least be accessed with an enhanced security ID with 2-Factor Authentication. I find it ridiculous a mundane spear-phishing operation could lead to a government voter database being compromised. This is outrageous!

This speaks more to bad security hygiene if true. I’m shocked this data isn’t more protected - seems like it’s vulnerable to other attacks as well (like ransom attacks).

What Russia did here isn’t at all impressive. My response is more “You’ve got to be fucking kidding me” if this article is 100% accurate.

Finally, I’m also curious how Rubio made the determination that the data could be updated and deleted by the compromised credentials. There is information missing here. I’m skeptical of his remarks until / if further information comes out.

[pdsimdars]

92. So, we should probably have Gov Andrew Gillum, and a different Senator as well. Recount!

[cilla4progress]

104. Well, the NYT story is about 2016, but,

I'd say yes!

[pdsimdars]

110. Details, details!

[Chin music]

137. +1

Shhhhhhhhhhh.

[triron]

98. For all you naysayers and (everyone actually) you may find this illuminating:

https://www.secureworldexpo.com/industry-news/midterm-mayhem-6-ways-voting-hacked

[cilla4progress]

105. Only browsed it so far -

looks good!

[NewsCenter28]

114. I am ENRAGED after reading this OP

It’s time for downright armed resurrection to deal with the KGOP neo-nazis!

[triron]

117. Joseph Stalin:

"You know, comrades," says Stalin, "that I think in regard to this: I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this—who will count the votes, and how."

[FirstLight]

124. Tomato - toMahtoe

Hacking is hacking...whether registrations or tallies, it's still fucking wrong!

The GOP as a whole is complicit in keeping this as a "sore loser" issue and Trump refuses to take it seriously as a National Security issue. So we're fucked unless each state's Registrar of Voters and whoever is Election Official to cover the gap... which leaves HUGE holes in our system for 2020

We already know Trump's election was a farce, and that several state races were fucked with even in 2018.


So what are we gonna do about it, collectively? As a people, our RIGHT to vote is at stake here.

I'm definitely scared for what comes next?

[Botany]

134. Vlad wasn't doing all that snooping around for nothing

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212041731

[cilla4progress]

140. Fuel

fire

Link to tweet

?s=19

[Control-Z]

141. K&R!

I will read this in the morning when I am fully awake.

[SMoss]

146. Stalin quote

Of course they hacked the count. Shitgibbon won in swing states by just enough to not trigger recounts. I think It was Stalin who said he didn't need to control voters, he controlled the people counting the votes. How difficult is it to flip 80,000 votes if you have troll farms with hundreds of trolls.

[robbedvoter]

148. But we are still blaming Hllary/Wisconsin, right? Because no way Russians

wold have used that ability, right?

[Grasswire2]

159. if you are interested in election security issues, there's a superb Twitter feed on the subject.

The woman riding herd on this topic is Jennifer Cohn.

Her twitter feed is filled with data and information.

She's fairly frantic about calling notice to the danger.

You don't have to be a twitter member to read it. Just search for the name Jennifer Cohn.

[cilla4progress]

161. Will do.

We have such a distinct divide here on this thread about whether Russia could have altered vote TALLIES, any summation of her data you can provide us to illuminate, in the meantime?

[cilla4progress]

162. Jennifer Cohn, election security expert cited by poster,

below.

Link to tweet

?s=19

[triron]

167. Those Liberty Cty results look very fishy.

This is just one example. How many other suspicious voting results were there??

Voting officials will never admit the election wasn't 'fair', regardless of party affiliation.

[cilla4progress]

169. Yep

👍

[triron]

179. Guess I will have to kick this.

[triron]

180. Several ways to hack an election are described below. So you think they didn't happen??

https://www.axios.com/be-smart-there-is-more-than-one-way-to-hack-an-election-1529424861-1e0c75d9-32b8-4a85-98b3-47d5a853fdeb.html

Bet the Russians used most of 'em!

[triron]

186. knr

[triron]

192. From 2017: Increasingly likely Russians hacked vote totals.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a55603/russia-hack-voting-totals/

[triron]

193. kick for visibility

[triron]

194. kick again

[triron]

200. I thought Hillary suggested as much on Rachel last night

[cilla4progress]

203. That

she did!

[Captain Zero]

202. What if they did THIS? have not seen it mentioned as a possibility

Call me crazy but, I think this is what could have happened. Trump campaign gave them demographics. That could presumably include people who live in an area who are NOT registered to vote. And those residents can be identified after the deadline to register. Russians go into the poll books that we know they were in for sure, and they add these legitimate people who live in the area but who weren't registered, using the demographic info they were supplied. We know Russians possess the wonkiness to do this. Then, if they ALSO had access to the voting machines,,, on election day they go into the poll books, mark the new voters they registered in the poll books as voting, and then at some point go into the corresponding election machinery and add those votes for whomever they want. And we know whom they wanted.

[struggle4progress]

204. "My goodness! I do wonder if it might be best if we covered this up quickly

so we aren't hanged by angry mobs"