I'm starting to really realize this is over

[SHRED]

The Senate, the Executive Branch, the DOJ, the SCOTUS and all we have is the House which seems fixated on accommodating the other side.

2020 will be even more rigged.

I'm pretty down now.
Any hope out there?

[Iliyah]

1. Not me.

[Kaleva]

2. I'm very upbeat!

[SHRED]

3. Good to hear

Why?

[Kaleva]

8. The retaking of the House in 2018. A great field of candidates running for president.

We have a very good chance of narrowing the gap in the Senate and will most certainly retain the House in 2020. Trump has his fanatical diehard base but he hasn't been able to build upon that.

[Hortensis]

43. Here, SHRED. From an author of the special counsel regulations:

NYT: Many who watched Attorney General William Barr’s testimony on Wednesday before the Senate Judiciary Committee, which followed the revelation that the special counsel Robert Mueller had expressed misgivings about Mr. Barr’s characterization of his report, are despairing about the rule of law.

I am not among them. I think the system is working, and inching, however slowly, toward justice.

When it comes to investigating a president, the special counsel regulations I had the privilege of drafting in 1998-99 say that such inquiries have one ultimate destination: Congress. That is where this process is going, and has to go. We are in the fifth inning, and we should celebrate a system in which our own government can uncover so much evidence against a sitting president.

Some commentators have attacked the special counsel regulations as giving the attorney general the power to close a case against the president, as Mr. Barr did with the obstruction of justice investigation into Donald Trump. But the critics’ complaint here is not with the regulations but with the Constitution itself. Article II gives the executive branch control over prosecutions, so there isn’t an easy way to remove the attorney general from the process.

Instead, the idea behind the regulations was to say, “We recognize the constitutional reality that the attorney general controls the prosecution power, so what else can we do?” My colleagues and I (which included many career officials at the Justice Department as well as bipartisan leaders in the House and Senate) settled on two things. First, provide a mechanism to enable an independent investigation, and thereby generate public confidence in the outcome of that investigation. Second, design that mechanism so that if the attorney general interferes with the special counsel’s inquiry, that interference would be reported to Congress and ultimately become public.

The underappreciated story right now is that we’ve not only learned that it was Mr. Barr — and pointedly not Mr. Mueller — who decided to clear President Trump of the obstruction charges, but also discovered the reasoning behind Mr. Barr’s decision. The American public and Congress now have the facts and evidence before them. The sunlight the regulations sought is shining. ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/opinion/barr-mueller-report.html?searchResultPosition=

[Cha]

54. Thanks!

[Hortensis]

62. Reassuring to me.

Good information and understanding the situation makes you feel more in control. And I like that in the fifth inning bit.

[oregonjen]

4. Neal Katyal wrote an op ed for those of us feeling down

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/opinion/barr-mueller-report.html

<snip>

“Many who watched Attorney General William Barr’s testimony on Wednesday before the Senate Judiciary Committee, which followed the revelation that the special counsel Robert Mueller had expressed misgivings about Mr. Barr’s characterization of his report, are despairing about the rule of law. I am not among them. I think the system is working, and inching, however slowly, toward justice.

When it comes to investigating a president, the special counsel regulations I had the privilege of drafting in 1998-99 say that such inquiries have one ultimate destination: Congress. That is where this process is going, and has to go. We are in the fifth inning, and we should celebrate a system in which our own government can uncover so much evidence against a sitting president.”

[SHRED]

5. That's fine

But laws and rules aren't being followed.

[uponit7771]

28. +1, ... and screw you we'll win in 2020 with Russia helping Trump again doesn't make sense either

[Demsrule86]

47. Russia helped last time and they won because those on our side voted for Stein in

Margins that would have given Clinton the win. Thus, I think we can beat them.

[watoos]

53. Russia and Republicans will just turn up the vote flipping

on the machines in 2020. The Pa. state Senate just voted to delay installing new voting machines. I vote in Pa. and vote into a black hole, no paper trail not that it would matter, no machines are ever pulled out and independently audited.

Who is to say that if Trump loses in 2020 that he will step aside? He will claim the election was rigged and stay in power.

The best option that I see is one given by Katyal, defund the office of AG, take away the money from anyone who obstructs justice.

[uponit7771]

65. +1

[uponit7771]

64. We don't know that, we do know Russia hacked our electoral system down to a minute degree

[Nuggets]

81. Russia and likely

all of the Republican controlled states have a list of every registered Democrat in the US thanks to the Presidential Advisory Committee for Election Integrity. They can easily knock them off voter rolls.
They also have DNC voter info from their hack in 2016.

Plus FB and Twitter aren’t exactly worried about stopping the fake news or tweets planted by the Republicans and Russians. They are pretty good at pretending to care, but always manage to close the barn door after all the horses escaped.

[uponit7771]

82. +1, I thought that too every state where Clinton was up by 2 - 3% in 16 but lost by 1% was a red

... lead state that initiated some kind of voter suppression measures.

[Nuggets]

85. It will be increased and all

“Legal” as any cases will either go to the now packed federal courts or the packed SCOTUS.

States purged 16 million voters from the rolls before the 2016 election, according to the Brennan Center for Justice.
You just know they got those Democratic voters names and addresses by hacking the DNC while simultaneously whaling about Sanders having the primaries rigged against him for cover.

Sociopaths are excellent at bludgeoning you with your own morals and using the laws towards their own evil interests.

For instance, people like Trump turning our justice system into a way to get discounts or revenge at the expense of hard working people who are then stuck taking the deal because they can’t afford to fight it.
This is just another way to “legally” finish the coup.

[uponit7771]

86. +1

[UniteFightBack]

13. Thanks that does help. He is like my human Xanax. nt

[oregonjen]

15. Same. Chuck Rosenberg as well.

[Skidmore]

40. Rosenberg pissed me off.

He spent a great deal of air time during Barr's confirmation hearing assuring the nation not to worry. Barr is an institutionalist who would follow the rules. Totally disregarded the man's history of being a partisan fixer for the illegal activity of Republican presidents. And now he's shocked.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

27. THERE IS PLENTY OF HOPE, IN THE HOUSE, AS THEY PROSECUTE TRUMP!

PROSECUTE AND INCARCERATE THE CRIMINAL!

[Demsrule86]

46. I like the guy but he did a shitty job. Any report should be sent to both houses

of congress.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. Neil Katyal, who wrote the special counsel regulations, doesn't agree.

Many who watched Attorney General William Barr’s testimony on Wednesday before the Senate Judiciary Committee, which followed the revelation that the special counsel Robert Mueller had expressed misgivings about Mr. Barr’s characterization of his report, are despairing about the rule of law. I am not among them. I think the system is working, and inching, however slowly, toward justice.

When it comes to investigating a president, the special counsel regulations I had the privilege of drafting in 1998-99 say that such inquiries have one ultimate destination: Congress. That is where this process is going, and has to go. We are in the fifth inning, and we should celebrate a system in which our own government can uncover so much evidence against a sitting president.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/opinion/barr-mueller-report.html

[SHRED]

7. That's all good and well

But who's going to uphold the law?

[Grasswire2]

9. Paul Wellstone: "Stand up! Keep fighting!"

Perhaps it is up to we the people to give the House some cover.

It may be we the people who propel this.

72 percent of Dems desire impeachment.

We were told tonight that Pelosi is watching that number carefully.

But it isn't over until we who object have been in the streets to make our views known, if that's what it takes.

Let's hear a bang, not a whimper!!

[Grasswire2]

10. and have you seen the number of Republicans who tell pollsters they will definitely NOT..

...vote for Trump? It's HUGE.

He doesn't have the numbers to win.

[SHRED]

14. Provided we have safe and fair elections

But since we don't...

[Grasswire2]

16. PAPER BALLOTS HAND COUNTED LOCALLY

That is the gold standard. The vote can't be hacked or changed if ballots are never connected to a network or machine.

This is a cause we can all promote.

Twitter user Jennifer Cohn has the best info on election security. And she begs for help.

[uponit7771]

29. We will not have paper ballots counted locally either, so what's next? I'm trying here but lets keep

... things real, the time to cut Thanos's arm off is about damn near gone.

[SlogginThroughIt]

58. I understand what you are saying but what is your suggestion?

I guess I don’t understand the despair you are spreading here. And I don’t like it at all. We have to vote. We have to have as enthusiastic turnout as possible. And when we win we have to put pressure on the powers that be to change the things that we don’t like. I understand that it may be an uphill battle and that there may be nefarious acts working against us but we have to vote.

What other alternative is there?

[uponit7771]

63. Contempt of congress fines of 10k a day, let them fly ... whistling past the graveyard doesn't help

... anything either.

Address the apparent issues of Russia helping Trump in a constructive way other than the sophistry of hiding behind the non arguments of politics

[watoos]

83. Who will collect the fines?

[uponit7771]

89. Congress

[dawg day]

21. They'll still vote for him.

My own Standard Republican (mother-in-law):

"Oh, yes, he's terrible. He's gross. He's disgusting. He's mean. But he's Republican. So I'll vote for him."

However, there aren't that many left. (she's 87.)

[Maru Kitteh]

11. Fucking shake it off and GET TO WORK. It's what we all need to do. ALL of us. Act like we mean it,

act like we are willing to fight, like we care, like we still have the capacity to believe.






Yes.

We can.

[Cha]

56. Good

Pep Talk, Maru!

[Maru Kitteh]

88. Love ya Cha!

[Ponietz]

12. Here's one possible ending--

The people are shut down and stonewalled until next year’s election when the same malefactors kick up their cyberbug machine. The Pentagon steps in, declares martial law, supervises the election, and makes sweeping arrests after an overwhelming Democratic victory—they are all tried in a military tribunal. Meanwhile, Pakistan somehow ‘loses’ one of its nukes, last known whereabouts near the Iranian border.

[Demsrule86]

38. Get to work. We can beat them.

[Zoonart]

51. Or worse...

Terror attack on US soil. MF45 decalres martial law...no election.

[Ponietz]

57. Right, extremely concerned about rogue nukes

[applegrove]

17. Mueller Report is #1 book in the USA. Pete Buttigieg's book is #2. People

are educating themselves. Preparing. For something big in 2020.

[Moostache]

80. HA....do you realize how FEW copies of a book have to sell to make that list?

Americans don't read as a collective...taken on the aggregate, the American population is one of the dumbest in the world. Virtually no scientific knowledge, no skill in mathematics and a tenuous at best grasp on even RECENT history.

We are a nation of morons led by a dangerous imbecile and we're rapidly sinking into despotism as a result of this situation...

I would bet the lives of my children that the average American has read fewer than 2 books in the last year, and I highly doubt more than a 100,000 or so (roughly 0.02% of the population) have read either of the best sellers and fewer than 1/2 of those finished the books or educated themselves to any significant degree.

This nation is circling the idiocracy toilet and going down by the head. I swear Fox "news" is only days away from broadcasting "Ow, my balls!!!"...

[MrScorpio]

18. In movies, there usually is a point, right before the climax, when all seems lost

A nadir, a hopeless situation where our hero will meet a final defeat at the hands of their adversaries.

But before that final moment the hero is snatched from the jaws of oblivion by way of deus ex machina.

You’re feeling that nadir right now.

I say, don’t despair, help is coming. Trump and the GOPrs are all in an unsustainable position of their own making. It will not stand, because their advantages are built on the sands of lying, treachery and deceit.

The electorate and the moral arch of justice will overcome this sad state of affairs.

We will eventually prevail.

[ZZenith]

26. This is such an excellent response.

From top to bottom I concur with every word. Thank you, MrScorpio.

WAS IT OVER WHEN THE GERMANS BOMBED PEARL HARBOR?!!!

[uponit7771]

30. OK, so we're not in a movie ... and even in movies the good guys fail to grasp situations and cut

... the head or arm off of the guy who swearing to kill half the living beings in the universe with the snap of his fingers ... for instance.

Trump will have Russia to help him in 2020 and hacked voting networks down to the municipal level where

1. Republicans will cheat like they did in 2018 via voter suppression measures to keep some kind of control
2. Russia will be involved in minimum SM campaigns that FB, twitter et al are not giving a damn about stopping.
3. A recalcitrant leadership who intimates over and over the aforementioned isn't relevant or meaningful and can be defeated by a lot of votes.

[StarfishSaver]

44. You can give up if you want, but I'm not and neither are lots of people here.

When Bush won his second term and I was in despair, my father said, "You think this is bad? Imagine how we felt in 1956 when Eisenhower won a second term. We felt hopeless. Segregation and discrimination were still rampant and blacks had little political power. And we didn't have the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act. But four years later, we elected JFK.

"So, feel sorry for yourself today and then get out and do something and start working toward 2006."

We did. And in 2006, we took back the House and Senate. And two years after that, we did what in 2006 seemed impossible.

This is a moment in time. History is a pendulum and it swings in different directions and sometimes it swings very far to one side. But it always swings back and it's up to us to make that swing happen sooner and go farther.

[Cha]

59. Thank You, StarfishSaver

for your righteous Pep Talk!

[uponit7771]

68. How is pressuring representatives to protect out elections giving up? How is pressuring represenativ

... to put these people in jail or fine the shit out of them giving up?

How is pushing for powers of impeachment giving up?

Jus wanted to make sure we're on the same page.

tia

[StarfishSaver]

75. Your post that I responded to did nothing to "pressure representatives"

It was merely another lamentation about how the Republicans are awful and will cheat, voting doesn't matter, and our leadership doesn't get it.

That's not proactive, it's not helpful and it certainly isn't going to "pressure" any leader into doing anything.

[Demsrule86]

37. I Think we will too.

If we work hard, we can send the GOP Senate packing. Our presidential candidates need to run on heathcare...what the GOP is doing to end it in the courts...attack them at every turn.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

61. It is darkest before the dawn...

Another old way of saying it.

[Mme. Defarge]

19. KEEP CALM AND

GOTFV!!!

[uponit7771]

31. ... so it can be hacked, or suppressed or manipulated with Russia helping Red Don. Just makin

... sure to add the rest of the sentence.

Lets not whistle past the graveyard

[Mme. Defarge]

66. Because the system is rigged

our only hope is overwhelmingly large turnout.

[uponit7771]

69. Which can be defeated by already hacked machines, how about pressuring our reps to protect

... the machines down to a level of compliance?

Seems like a lot more progressive than hoping the Russians, who've already hacked the machines and voter roles and state local elctoral systems, .... wont do it again.

[DonaldsRump]

20. Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi....that's why

“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.”

M.K. Gandhi

Putin is an idiot because he picked the biggest idiot of them all: Trump! That's another reason why!


[link:|]

[coti]

22. Don't look now, but the truth is winning. nt

[Demovictory9]

23. repubs are playing a long game: 1 - locking up courts for decades, 2 - voter supression

3. citizenship question on census - starts part three - reducing blue state / urban area congressional representation.

Dems are arguing over who is progressive enough to be the candidate.

[dustyscamp]

25. Don't forget brainwashing the youth to hate Liberals

[Demsrule86]

35. And had some looked at the long game in 16 ...we would not be here with a packed court.

But no, the emails etc. Congress can't rescue us from this because we kneecapped them by not voting for the Democrati nominee.

[Demovictory9]

73. Yep

[Azathoth]

24. It's not over, but don't expect any meaningful heroics from Dem leadership

The plan is to have two years of soundbites of Mazie Hirono and Adam Schiff getting righteously outraged during oversight hearings. We stand a good chance of winning in 2020, but from here on not a single Trump goon will suffer consequences worse than a stern tongue lashing right up until January 2021.

[Demsrule86]

33. What would you have them do? Impeach? It is unpopular and could give Trump

a second term.

[uponit7771]

34. +1, when they start putting peoples asses in jail for inherent contempt of congress I'll take em

... seriously.

Right now its publicans showing us we're number one daily

[Demsrule86]

32. The house can do only do so much and do not want to act in such away that gives

Trump a win in 20. We are in a desperate place, and polls show impeachment is unpopular...if we could remove him,it would be worth it, but we can't.

[uponit7771]

36. The polls show we're near the same place we were with impeachment of Nixon. We don't have a choie

... choice but to try to remove and let the American people see republicans keep the criminal Trump.

The party of the impeached or nearly impeached has never fared well post impeachment

[Demsrule86]

45. It's a bad idea...this is a different time.

You will give Trump four more years. I know the dream is with hearings folks will realize what a rat he is and demand conviction. But it won't happen. I want aTrump out. We are about a year away from elections...hold hearings.

[uponit7771]

67. You're right about it being a different time, Red Don is not as popular as Nixon or Clinton so we'd

... fare better at getting rid of him.

Impeachment doesn't give Trump four more years, there are no true political facts behind that

[Whiskeytide]

72. The primary argument against impeachment now ...

... is that the Democrats in the House really only refer the impeachment papers to the Senate for hearings and a trial. We have clearly seen that the Senate is controlled by trump and his stooges. So the hearings would be a joke and there would never be an actual conviction and removal. Instead, it would result in essentially an acquittal - and the “exonerated” chorus would be deafening from MSM. No one here would be persuaded by that, but the 60% of the electorate that only pay attention 4% of the time would be vulnerable to that influence.

This is different from the 70s, and even the 90s. The degree of control the republicans have over the MSM - and thus the narrative - is frighteningly greater now than the past.

But I think the best reason not to impeach NOW is that the House loses a lot -really all - control over the investigation once impeachment papers are sent to the Senate. We -Dems - could sit back and watch, and feel righteous about our actions - but we would essentially be out of the game at that point (our minority in the Senate could only do so much since the gop would control the proceedings).

Why not have House hearings. Lots of hearings. Expose lies. Subpoena documents and witnesses. Overload the media with tales of trump and his administration’s treachery, incompetence and dealings with foreign interests. How would that be any less destructive to his office than a failed impeachment proceeding?

I get that history is watching us, and that impeachment is what we “should” do under our duty to the constitution. But the drafters never planned for trump and the current gop. They never anticipated a media apparatus like we have today. They never expected the electorate to be so stupid, frankly. And they would have never expected the people to accept lawlessness so readily and unquestioningly.

We HAVE to stay in the game until 2020. We can’t turn it all over to them. That’s what they want.

[uponit7771]

77. Politically that's a falacious argument too. Clinton's popularity grew but dems won nothing after ..

... impeachment of Clinton.

That's a fact that's not in dispute

To argue Republicans won by less points isn't a progressive position, who cares ... they still won back both houses.

This is different from the 70s, and even the 90s. The degree of control the republicans have over the MSM - and thus the narrative - is frighteningly greater now than the past.

This is true, I think that's one of the Reasons Murdoch put together FAUX News but the polling is what it is even with FAUX News.

The most recent NPR|Marrist poll has Trump impeachment near Nixon impeachment at a similar stage ... even with FAUX News.

Trumps age base is gone in the dumps, a majority of them wont vote for him.

Yes its different, Trumps numbers are empirically worse

[Whiskeytide]

87. But WHY are trump's numbers worse? I suspect ...

... it’s because the truth is slipping out - slowly but surely - and people are waking up to what is really going on. His polls are slipping because we have a voice through the House majority, and some people are hearing it.

Why tamper with that model? Keep having hearings and conducting serious investigation. Get the truth out there.

Impeachment just moves the game to their home field and gives them the narrative.

[uponit7771]

90. "and conducting serious investigation" This isn't going to happen because they can stonewall..

... if the stonewalling was happening I'd 100% agree with don't impeach ...not at all.

But without impeachment proceedings dems can ... NOT ... have serious investigations.

Also,

We're talking about free and fair elections, no one believes that's going to happen with Red Don ... we have try impeachment

or...

start with inherent contempt of congress and use house sargent at arms.

[Demsrule86]

74. The voters hate ump each mentioned and will give Trump four more years.

[Hortensis]

39. Hoick those shorts back up and pretend to be brave

until you can get back to yourself is all I can suggest.

Maybe DU should have a white flag forum, though, where those inclined can indulge their need to surrender and wallow in defeat. With battle for the future of our nation sure to continue for some time, they'll have no shortage of opportunities.

[philf99]

41. I tend to agree

It's a rigged system and much like mafia he controls the judges and politicians.

With Barr he has complete control of American Justice system.

[KPN]

42. A lot of people up and awake this late late

night.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

48. It can help to focus on your local community and to work with issue-oriented groups rather than

through politics in times like this. It's important to realize that there is no politician riding in on a horse to save us all, or to "save America," or to finally put the "good guys" back in power. Better to realize that the ones who can save us are ourselves, working together. It's not easier, or even more rewarding. But it can keep you much closer to hope.

[spanone]

49. My hope is that the Mueller people will keep leaking.

[themaguffin]

50. You can't live in the political moment. Now is June which is not December which is not election day

[TrishaJ]

52. Just because traitors Lindsey Graham and

Donald Trump say it's over doesn't mean it's over. I lived through the murder of JFK, the Civil Rights movement, and Watergate. I have faith that justice will prevail at the end of the day.

[Blue_Tires]

55. We must be living in two different realities...

Because I'm more optimistic now more than ever...

[lostnfound]

60. Nope, none. Nt

[Paladin]

70. Never underestimate trump's ability to fuck things up for himself.

Meanwhile, lose the boo-hoo attitude and get active in your area, mobilizing Democratic votes. If we do go down in 2020, it shouldn't be without a really dirty fight.

[jalan48]

71. If the Democrats issue subpoenas and the Republicans just don't show up, what can we do?

Our government is based on the belief that its Representatives all agree that the upholding the Constitution is the most important thing, regardless of political differences. We are in a place now where that is no longer the case. So much power has been ceded to the Executive Branch over the decades we now find ourselves in a situation where the Executive Branch can simply ignore the Congress and the Congress has no real power to do anything about it. Who's going to enforce the subpoenas?

[ooky]

76. No.

Listening to Nancy Pelosi gives me hope.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

78. Not to worry, soon there'll be a new sheriff in town... President Sanders!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Botany]

79. I get like this too sometimes

I'm from Ohio and I saw the cheating and rat fucking 1st hand in 2004. w stole two elections,
lied to start a war, missed 70+ warnings about 9-11, crashed the economy, and created ISIS
and yet he is living large in Texas and painting puppy pictures. Sometimes it gets too much
but buck up because:

The House is gonna have impeach Trump and then the GOP in the senate will have to stand
w/a treasonous grifting con man who is bat shit crazy. Let 'em.

[lunatica]

84. Go ahead and throw your hands up in defeat

That’ll surely win this war.

< Just in fucking case you or anyone else don’t get it.