Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
Sun May 5, 2019, 10:25 AM May 2019

Pelosi Warns Democrats: Stay in the Center or Trump May Contest Election Results

Pelosi Warns Democrats: Stay in the Center or Trump May Contest Election Results
By Glenn Thrush
May 4, 2019

WASHINGTON — Speaker Nancy Pelosi does not believe President Trump can be removed through impeachment — the only way to do it, she said this week, is to defeat him in 2020 by a margin so “big” he cannot challenge the legitimacy of a Democratic victory.
...
Sitting in her office with its panoramic view of the National Mall, Ms. Pelosi — the de facto head of the Democratic Party until a presidential nominee is selected in 2020 — offered Democrats her “coldblooded” plan for decisively ridding themselves of Mr. Trump: Do not get dragged into a protracted impeachment bid that will ultimately get crushed in the Republican-controlled Senate, and do not risk alienating the moderate voters who flocked to the party in 2018 by drifting too far to the left.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/04/us/politics/nancy-pelosi.html
134 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Pelosi Warns Democrats: Stay in the Center or Trump May Contest Election Results (Original Post) Trumpocalypse May 2019 OP
Pragmatism is needed, granted... Dennis Donovan May 2019 #1
It's anything that gets moderates feeling we are pushing too hard. zaj May 2019 #6
Trump is going to contest the results no matter how he loses. TheBlackAdder May 2019 #51
THIS CanonRay May 2019 #54
Contesting election results is going to become the new normal Amishman May 2019 #57
Yup. A win will produce accusations of fraud... JHB May 2019 #79
Try Eisenhower Rambling Man May 2019 #93
Yup. He is. And Vlad is going to help him any way he can. gldstwmn May 2019 #115
Isn't pragmatism what got us here? gldstwmn May 2019 #114
yep Apple Fritter May 2019 #128
There's something wrong with legitimizing the threat of Trump contesting the enough May 2019 #2
She's not legitimizing it Trumpocalypse May 2019 #3
+1 uponit7771 May 2019 #4
+1000!! InAbLuEsTaTe May 2019 #53
Why does Anyone still think the next election will be free and fair ?! That's not rational uponit7771 May 2019 #5
Check this out: triron May 2019 #10
Damn, facebook is in the middle of it uponit7771 May 2019 #13
This. Waiting until 2020 is foolish IMO. gldstwmn May 2019 #117
Contest away! Bayard May 2019 #7
True Trumpocalypse May 2019 #8
So can his attorneys shanti May 2019 #18
Guliani is one step ahead? Trumpocalypse May 2019 #19
He has a shitload of attorneys on board shanti May 2019 #20
Overthinking. Just do what's right. KPN May 2019 #9
THIS! I support this. n/t Apple Fritter May 2019 #129
So ignore your constitutional duty if you think it will help you win? triron May 2019 #11
What is your goal? Trumpocalypse May 2019 #12
I agree with you on this ProudLib72 May 2019 #41
Post removed Post removed May 2019 #14
Such a strategy is doomed to failure. appal_jack May 2019 #15
She was right in 07 Trumpocalypse May 2019 #16
If you say so, watoos May 2019 #77
And not impeaching Bush Trumpocalypse May 2019 #81
It was a moderate Democrat, Joe Lieberman, watoos May 2019 #101
But that's not what Pelosi said Trumpocalypse May 2019 #102
I am so disappointed and in disbelief over this 2 prong strategy. Will she not even consider Nevermypresident May 2019 #24
No need for a special committee Trumpocalypse May 2019 #46
Yes. Since the Senate won't impeach emmaverybo May 2019 #58
The Senate does not impeach, the House does. Celerity May 2019 #75
Quibbling. I meant same thing. They won't vote to convict meaning emmaverybo May 2019 #109
It is not quibbling, you used completely wrong constitutional terminology. Celerity May 2019 #110
Overreaction much? (slandering) Nevermypresident May 2019 #107
Yes slandering Trumpocalypse May 2019 #108
Take a deep breath... Nevermypresident May 2019 #111
I will Trumpocalypse May 2019 #112
Methinks thou doth protest too much. Nevermypresident May 2019 #119
Why? Trumpocalypse May 2019 #124
Yup wryter2000 May 2019 #127
Because, the truth is, the average American does not care about what Trump did. Oneironaut May 2019 #66
58% of voters say they won't vote for him. Lock him up. May 2019 #82
"We'll never know," are the three most important words in your entire post. marylandblue May 2019 #26
She still swore an oath to the Constitution. appal_jack May 2019 #32
Yes it is higher stakes. But the Constitution does not make a duty of impeachment. marylandblue May 2019 #33
Not academic Trumpocalypse May 2019 #47
You can't prove a negative. watoos May 2019 #104
And by the same logic Trumpocalypse May 2019 #105
I believe you are correct on all points. gldstwmn May 2019 #118
Chump will contest it anyway shanti May 2019 #17
this. durablend May 2019 #22
"Don't Do X, Or Trump Will Do Something Stupid Or Illegal!" hatrack May 2019 #21
Instead of being concerned about the center... LiberalFighter May 2019 #23
Why? Not all of us want all of the progressive agenda. emmaverybo May 2019 #59
Because not all of us want a centrist agenda. Autumn May 2019 #61
Popular with the working class in the rust belt? emmaverybo May 2019 #62
Trump kind of faked a bit of a progressive agenda and he won the rust belt. So there was Autumn May 2019 #64
Well, that support depends on the info they are given emmaverybo May 2019 #71
Because a lot of the so called progressive ideas are supported by the majority. LiberalFighter May 2019 #68
Well, well, well how DU has turned Jake Stern May 2019 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author Generic Other May 2019 #27
I trust her judgment Trumpocalypse May 2019 #31
I've gone the opposite way of many DUers Jake Stern May 2019 #38
I kept my mouth shut at the time, because I know how this place can get, but Crunchy Frog May 2019 #36
We can do both. It's not wrong to support one of our own. gldstwmn May 2019 #120
That NYT headline is deceptive because the two are not connected. RandySF May 2019 #28
Like 3 million? ProudLib72 May 2019 #42
Right? And "no Russian interference." gldstwmn May 2019 #121
Headline is misleading wellst0nev0ter May 2019 #29
Exactly. NYT looks for trouble. And finds it as people don't read past the headline robbedvoter May 2019 #45
"Own the center left, own the mainstream." (NP as quoted in the NYT story)nt emmaverybo May 2019 #63
Just this right here MFM008 May 2019 #30
The Goldilocks approach. Not too hot, not too cold, just right! jalan48 May 2019 #34
I lulz'd KG May 2019 #35
Fucking NY Times can't even get her quote right in the article title... SidDithers May 2019 #37
Taking impeachment off the table is playing right into Trumps hands standingtall May 2019 #39
She didn't say it's off the table. TwilightZone May 2019 #43
Trump cannot win with just his base showing up, watoos May 2019 #80
It's off the table, it's not off the table. gldstwmn May 2019 #122
The same argument was made in 07 Trumpocalypse May 2019 #48
apples and oranges 08 was nothing like this standingtall May 2019 #55
Same argument was made in 07 Trumpocalypse May 2019 #65
Saying something over again does not make it true standingtall May 2019 #70
And repeating the same weak, false argument Trumpocalypse May 2019 #72
I gave you facts standingtall May 2019 #73
He will do his worst no matter who marlakay May 2019 #40
And she's been one of the most effective Speakers history Trumpocalypse May 2019 #50
Sam Rayburn? Rambling Man May 2019 #87
That wasn't the question. Trumpocalypse May 2019 #89
There aren't very many people who aren't in politics Rambling Man May 2019 #91
It is a matter of credibility Trumpocalypse May 2019 #94
So absolutely no person whatsoever Rambling Man May 2019 #96
Never said that Trumpocalypse May 2019 #98
Someone said this about this exact same thing Rambling Man May 2019 #99
Weak comeback nt Trumpocalypse May 2019 #100
If you say so Rambling Man May 2019 #103
You too Trumpocalypse May 2019 #106
Center-left. It's what she said. NYT headline edited "left" and you all jump on her robbedvoter May 2019 #44
Good catch. nt emmaverybo May 2019 #60
I trust Nancy Pelosi's judgement. NurseJackie May 2019 #49
So do I Trumpocalypse May 2019 #52
So....he won't contest if we nominate a centrist? doompatrol39 May 2019 #56
No, her point is that we need to win by a large enough margin that he can't contest. TwilightZone May 2019 #67
I'm 71 years old watoos May 2019 #78
Either way, it's ridiculous... doompatrol39 May 2019 #95
And consider that there hasn't been an actual "liberal" president Rambling Man May 2019 #97
We live in a banana republic Rambling Man May 2019 #69
+1, there's no reason to think 2020 election will be more free and fair than 2016 uponit7771 May 2019 #74
I sometimes wonder what centrist believe is too far to the left. The Communist Manifesto? YOHABLO May 2019 #76
People fall for the propaganda they see , watoos May 2019 #83
2018 happened because it was a reaction against Trump Rambling Man May 2019 #86
More pointless proclamations that put us in a box BeyondGeography May 2019 #84
And she's been right Trumpocalypse May 2019 #90
trump is desperate now duforsure May 2019 #85
Being Republican-lite, aka "moderate", is not a winning strategy Tarc May 2019 #88
Nor are purity tests Trumpocalypse May 2019 #92
So basically you just told gldstwmn May 2019 #113
Not what she said. Trumpocalypse May 2019 #116
I can read thanks. This is a losing strategy. gldstwmn May 2019 #123
Still not what she said. Trumpocalypse May 2019 #125
Who cares if he contests it? wryter2000 May 2019 #126
THIS.....🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝 pbmus May 2019 #131
Thanks wryter2000 May 2019 #132
Here's a rebuttal to Pelosi: Fiendish Thingy May 2019 #130
But Pelosi didn't say center Trumpocalypse May 2019 #133
Bullshit story with a bullshit title written by bullshit NY Times pecosbob May 2019 #134

Dennis Donovan

(18,770 posts)
1. Pragmatism is needed, granted...
Sun May 5, 2019, 10:29 AM
May 2019

Again, I ask, what is the "far left"? Medicare for all? College debt relief? Both poll well with independents.

 

zaj

(3,433 posts)
6. It's anything that gets moderates feeling we are pushing too hard.
Sun May 5, 2019, 10:44 AM
May 2019

It's a mix of new policies that feel too good to be true, and a a tone that feels overly tribal left.

This isn't simple, unfortunately.

Amishman

(5,540 posts)
57. Contesting election results is going to become the new normal
Sun May 5, 2019, 08:30 PM
May 2019

Best case scenario the seat flips

Worst case they get extra publicity and fundraising. Just look at the green party money grab after the 2016 election.

JHB

(37,128 posts)
79. Yup. A win will produce accusations of fraud...
Mon May 6, 2019, 04:59 AM
May 2019

...a blowout will produce accusations of sweeping, massive fraud.

All baseless, but when was that last a concern to Republican? The Ford administration?

Rambling Man

(249 posts)
93. Try Eisenhower
Mon May 6, 2019, 07:52 AM
May 2019

Repubs will do and say anything. They are a radical right wing movement and have no basis in fundamental decency, adherence to truth, or anything remotely moral.

enough

(13,235 posts)
2. There's something wrong with legitimizing the threat of Trump contesting the
Sun May 5, 2019, 10:31 AM
May 2019

outcome of the election. It empowers him.

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
41. I agree with you on this
Sun May 5, 2019, 06:57 PM
May 2019

Either our government follows through on its commitment to the constitution, or it is complete bullshit.

Response to Trumpocalypse (Original post)

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
15. Such a strategy is doomed to failure.
Sun May 5, 2019, 11:54 AM
May 2019

Democrats must exercise the power they have thanks to their present House majority.

Democrats must discharge the Constitutional responsibilities they swore to uphold and defend in their oaths of office.

Pelosi is wrong about impeachment and future election prospects.

She was unfortunately wrong about impeachment over the Iraq war lies in 2006. Had Bush/Cheney been brought to justice, would we have had the housing crash? Would we be saddled with Justice Alito had inquiries into impeachment begun in January 2006? Would mainstream media in 2019 be talking about Bush/Cheney with a tinge of "good old days?" We'll never know.

[ON-EDIT - My timeline is mistaken in the paragraph immediately above, as Alito was confirmed in January '06, while Pelosi did not retake the Speaker's gavel until January '07 {thanks to Trumpocalypse for pointing this out just below}. My postulate that robust House push back against Bush/Cheney could have prevented other problems stemming from the late Bush/Cheney years stands.]

What I know right now, is that elections have been manipulated, and the Trump lust for power and secrecy is insatiable. Conducting business as usual like the days of Tip O'Neill is a grievous mistake (heck, it was a bad idea when O'Neill was doing it).

The House is all that Democrats have right now. If Pelosi shrinks from her own responsibilities again, I fear for our country.

-app

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
16. She was right in 07
Sun May 5, 2019, 12:03 PM
May 2019

when she took impeachment of Bush off the table. In 08 Dems won the Presidency and increased majorities in both Houses of congress.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
77. If you say so,
Mon May 6, 2019, 04:39 AM
May 2019

We won in 08 because of the disastrous Iraq war that we were lied into. Keep telling yourself that we did the right thing by not prosecuting war criminals.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
81. And not impeaching Bush
Mon May 6, 2019, 05:05 AM
May 2019

didn’t lead to a loss in 08 as many claimed back then. The same lame and false argument that many are making now. But the win in 08 did lead to the ACA, the end of ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’, etc.

And if the choice is a useless impeachment of Bush or millions mote having Healthcare, I’ll chose the latter.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
101. It was a moderate Democrat, Joe Lieberman,
Mon May 6, 2019, 08:53 AM
May 2019

who cost us the public option of Obamacare even though we had majorities in both Houses for 4 1/2 months.

Moving to the center will alienate millennials and younger voters and the only way we lose in 2020 is if we don't show up to vote. We won in 2018 because we ran as FDR Democrats and because the moderates wanted a check on Trump. Moving to the right in 2020 will be the end of the Democratic party.

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowich are all war criminals and should have been prosecuted for war crimes. They couldn't even travel to certain countries because they would have been arrested by countries who would have prosecuted war criminals.

How many Republicans voted for Obamacare?

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
102. But that's not what Pelosi said
Mon May 6, 2019, 08:58 AM
May 2019

She said center-left. And no one ran in 2018 as an FDR Democrat. At least I don't remember anyone supporting segregation or the internment of Japanese Americans. And if you look in to it, more districts were flipped from red to blue by moderate candidates not by far left candidates.

Nevermypresident

(781 posts)
24. I am so disappointed and in disbelief over this 2 prong strategy. Will she not even consider
Sun May 5, 2019, 12:31 PM
May 2019

forming a Watergate-esque special committee to investigate trump's impeachable offenses like the Senate did with Nixon?!?!!!??

So, it appears our Constitution isn't worth the paper it's written on anymore, we all know there will be more sophisticated election interference by Putin, probably MBS and China in 2020, and IMO we are losing our moral compass.

According to Pelosi, we are not even going to try to do the right thing for our country and we should support only Democratic candidates who are centrist.




 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
46. No need for a special committee
Sun May 5, 2019, 07:50 PM
May 2019

All the investigations can be done through existing House committees which is happening. So stop slandering one of the best speakers we’ve ever had. She has been right far more often than she’s been wrong.

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
58. Yes. Since the Senate won't impeach
Sun May 5, 2019, 08:46 PM
May 2019

He can’t be impeached. And the worst case scenario is that when the Senate votes not to impeach, Trump claims exoneration. Sure, we don’t care what MAGA’s think, but what many voters we need will think is that Dems go for show. And it would be nothing but a show since the same hearings can be held without calling for impeachment.
Pelosi is also right when she says we need a landslide. Between more and better Russian help, voter suppression, the usual voter fraud, no paper trail and antiquated or rigged election machinery, the only way Repugs can’t pull off yet another election steal is if our candidate is an unambiguous winner across constituencies, a big winner.


Celerity

(42,645 posts)
75. The Senate does not impeach, the House does.
Mon May 6, 2019, 03:21 AM
May 2019

There is then a trial in the Senate. The Senate can either convict and remove, or vote to acquit.

Celerity

(42,645 posts)
110. It is not quibbling, you used completely wrong constitutional terminology.
Mon May 6, 2019, 02:24 PM
May 2019

If you cannot even get basic definitions right, it makes your argument look uninformed.

wryter2000

(46,016 posts)
127. Yup
Mon May 6, 2019, 03:26 PM
May 2019

We need several committees all working at the same time, and we have that. Granted, their stonewalling is frustrating, but we can keep up the pressure. it seems as if some new bombshell lands every week, like Mueller's letters to Barr.

Oneironaut

(5,461 posts)
66. Because, the truth is, the average American does not care about what Trump did.
Sun May 5, 2019, 11:11 PM
May 2019

They don't care in the least bit about Trump colluding with Russia, or filling the government with flunkies. It doesn't affect their life in any way. They're not paying attention.

What they really care about is their healthcare, jobs, and safety. If you begin to have hearings, they'll just tune us out.

American society is also increasingly cynical about politicians. Most people legitimately believe there is very little difference between Trump and any other politician. They're all bad in their minds. Trying to convince them that Trump is a scumbag is telling them something they already know. They just don't care.

Lock him up.

(6,873 posts)
82. 58% of voters say they won't vote for him.
Mon May 6, 2019, 05:06 AM
May 2019

Not in November, not never.

Moreso if the price of gas keeps going up, as it will surely do if Bolton & Co have their sick way, bombing Iran.

Sales taxes up to 25% on every product imported from China (dumph's stoopid tariffs).

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
26. "We'll never know," are the three most important words in your entire post.
Sun May 5, 2019, 02:08 PM
May 2019

There is no event in history that is so clear cut that we could not argue about what would have happened if people did something different. That's with full hindsight. When you are acting in the now, the future is even less clear. Pelosi has no crystal ball, neither do you. Her responsibility is to guide us through this difficult time. Not to do things she believes are counterproductive because someone thinks she "must" do it. Excuse me, "must."

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
32. She still swore an oath to the Constitution.
Sun May 5, 2019, 04:11 PM
May 2019

"We'll never know," is not an excuse to break a sworn oath of office.

We can have a friendly debate about the best course of action in 2007, but it would be purely academic at this point. Debating the best course of action of 2019 is considerably higher stakes. Congress has the explicit responsibility to conduct oversight and (via powers of the purse and legislation) even control of the Executive Branch which, if you had not noticed, has been completely rogue, corrupt, and autocratic since 1/2017. Trump is ignoring subpoenas and defying oversight right now. Pelosi needs to have a better plan at hand than she did in 2007, because matters are much more urgent now than then.

-app

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
33. Yes it is higher stakes. But the Constitution does not make a duty of impeachment.
Sun May 5, 2019, 04:19 PM
May 2019

And as long we are DEBATING the best course of action, we are agreeing it is not a requirement.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
47. Not academic
Sun May 5, 2019, 07:57 PM
May 2019

In 07 many made the argument that by not pursuing impeachment against Bush would dishearten Democrats and depress turnout in 08. Many are making the same argument today. But we know that didn’t happen in 08 so we can discount that argument now.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
104. You can't prove a negative.
Mon May 6, 2019, 09:20 AM
May 2019

You are assuming that because we didn't try criminals for war crimes that is the reason Obama won in 08.

My explanation is that people were pissed off that Republicans lied us into a bloody war and that's why we won in 08.

hatrack

(59,439 posts)
21. "Don't Do X, Or Trump Will Do Something Stupid Or Illegal!"
Sun May 5, 2019, 12:15 PM
May 2019

Guess what, he's going to keep on doing stupid/illegal shit until the day he keels over.

Stop operating on the basis of fear of what he might do.

LiberalFighter

(50,491 posts)
23. Instead of being concerned about the center...
Sun May 5, 2019, 12:27 PM
May 2019

Work on getting support for progressive ideas from the majority. That moves the center to the left.

Autumn

(44,748 posts)
61. Because not all of us want a centrist agenda.
Sun May 5, 2019, 08:56 PM
May 2019
The progressive agenda is very popular with a lot of Americans.

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
62. Popular with the working class in the rust belt?
Sun May 5, 2019, 09:14 PM
May 2019

Pelosi said “Own the center left, the mainstream.”
I have yet to see evidence that the mainstream is all in for all of the progressive agenda.
We ignore that mainstream at our peril.

Autumn

(44,748 posts)
64. Trump kind of faked a bit of a progressive agenda and he won the rust belt. So there was
Sun May 5, 2019, 10:16 PM
May 2019

the lies that he was going to protect SS, no cuts to Medicare or Medicaid, promised great health care, one trillion on infrastructure, drain the swamp and a few others. We knew he was full of shit, The rubes believed him. If you haven't seen any evidence that the mainstream likes a lot of the progressive agenda, like MFA you missed a few things.

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
71. Well, that support depends on the info they are given
Mon May 6, 2019, 02:02 AM
May 2019

And there’s support for other alternatives. Clearly, most Americans want universal coverage, but how to get there will still be debated as more is revealed:

https://apnews.com/4516833e7fb644c9aa8bcc11048b2169

LiberalFighter

(50,491 posts)
68. Because a lot of the so called progressive ideas are supported by the majority.
Sun May 5, 2019, 11:24 PM
May 2019

More people are likely to be to the left of center then is thought. Because of that the center is losing it's center to the left.

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
25. Well, well, well how DU has turned
Sun May 5, 2019, 01:47 PM
May 2019

When Pelosi was facing a challenge to the speakership, DUers rallied around her touting her wisdom and experience and how much they trusted her judgement.

Now many of those same DUers calling her out for her strategy of playing to the middle.

Response to Jake Stern (Reply #25)

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
38. I've gone the opposite way of many DUers
Sun May 5, 2019, 06:14 PM
May 2019

Started out begrudging her for not going after Shrub and her not-so-hidden hostility to some things that are sought by the left but as time has gone on and I've come to agree with her middle path stand.

How quickly folks forget that many of those 2018 House victories were in conservative districts where they can easily be flipped back into the Trump column.

Crunchy Frog

(26,548 posts)
36. I kept my mouth shut at the time, because I know how this place can get, but
Sun May 5, 2019, 04:37 PM
May 2019

I was definitely having concerns, and now I'm seeing what I was worried about.

gldstwmn

(4,575 posts)
120. We can do both. It's not wrong to support one of our own.
Mon May 6, 2019, 02:49 PM
May 2019

It's not wrong to let her know we don't think this is the right way to go.

RandySF

(57,617 posts)
28. That NYT headline is deceptive because the two are not connected.
Sun May 5, 2019, 02:12 PM
May 2019
WASHINGTON — Speaker Nancy Pelosi does not believe President Trump can be removed through impeachment — the only way to do it, she said this week, is to defeat him in 2020 by a margin so “big” he cannot challenge the legitimacy of a Democratic victory.
 

wellst0nev0ter

(7,509 posts)
29. Headline is misleading
Sun May 5, 2019, 02:18 PM
May 2019

Pelosi said "left of center" not middle-of-the-road center


“Own the center left, own the mainstream,” Ms. Pelosi, 79, said.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
37. Fucking NY Times can't even get her quote right in the article title...
Sun May 5, 2019, 05:06 PM
May 2019

Pelosi said Democrats have to "own the center-left", not stay in the center.

There's a big difference.

Sid

standingtall

(2,785 posts)
39. Taking impeachment off the table is playing right into Trumps hands
Sun May 5, 2019, 06:47 PM
May 2019

the more the house delays flexing it's constitutional muscle the more they will turn off their own base while making the lies of Trump look more credible to moderate voters. If there is sure way to botch the 2020 election it is to look weak and we are flirting with that now.

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
43. She didn't say it's off the table.
Sun May 5, 2019, 07:01 PM
May 2019

She said that it's not likely to remove Trump, which is correct. The Senate will not vote to convict.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
80. Trump cannot win with just his base showing up,
Mon May 6, 2019, 05:02 AM
May 2019

as long as our base turns out. When we fail to do our Constitutional duty and impeach a criminal president that is not going to invigorate our base to turn out.

Trump is not playing defense, he is investigating the crooked FBI and Democrats (Hillary) who waged a witch hunt against him. Since we don't impeach that will allow Trump to control the narrative that he was the victim of a witch hunt.

Making the reason for impeachment strictly political will backfire on us, it will depress our voter turnout. All we need to do to beat Trump is to turn out our base. Trump won in 2016 because our base stayed home.

Not impeaching Trump legitimizes everything he did, in my way of thinking, just like it was wrong when we didn't prosecute war criminals in 2009.

standingtall

(2,785 posts)
55. apples and oranges 08 was nothing like this
Sun May 5, 2019, 08:12 PM
May 2019

for one thing most elected Democrats voted for the Iraq war. Which would've made it hard to for them to justify voting to impeach Bush despite the fact the Bush administration lied to get us into war. Presidents have been lying to get us into war sense forever very few people seriously thought Bush was going to be impeached or that Democrats should've seriously considered impeaching him. Besides that our nominee was Obama a once in a generation candidate we have great candidates for 2020, but none of them are even close to Barrack Obama nor will they be. Taking impeachments off the table will make Democrats look weak just like voting for the Iraq war made them look weak in 04.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
65. Same argument was made in 07
Sun May 5, 2019, 11:04 PM
May 2019

about Dems looking weak by not impeaching Bush. It was BS then and it’s BS now.

standingtall

(2,785 posts)
70. Saying something over again does not make it true
Mon May 6, 2019, 01:14 AM
May 2019

again apples and oranges. There was no two year investigation into Bush by the FBI and there were no serious Presidential candidate calling for Bushes impeachment. If Democrats don't impeach Trump they will look weak even if they manage to squeak out a win in 2020. Which will not be a sign of political strength or wisdom, but a revelation of just how deeply unpopular Trump was.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
72. And repeating the same weak, false argument
Mon May 6, 2019, 02:11 AM
May 2019

doesn’t make it true either. Do you have any evidence that your opinion has any credibility?

standingtall

(2,785 posts)
73. I gave you facts
Mon May 6, 2019, 02:24 AM
May 2019

Do you have anything to refute those facts? Other than to repeat the same assertion without anything to support your assertion.

marlakay

(11,370 posts)
40. He will do his worst no matter who
Sun May 5, 2019, 06:56 PM
May 2019

When I hear advice from any politician no matter who, that are very wealthy telling me to stay in the middle I admit I get suspicious why they say that.

She is tough and has worked hard for the party for many years but she is rich.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
50. And she's been one of the most effective Speakers history
Sun May 5, 2019, 08:02 PM
May 2019

one of the few people to be elected to speaker twice.

How times have you been elected speaker?

Rambling Man

(249 posts)
91. There aren't very many people who aren't in politics
Mon May 6, 2019, 07:50 AM
May 2019

who get elected to Speaker of the House.

Are they exempt from having an opinion because they've never been elected to Speaker?

That would be MOST people.

Kind of a dumb question.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
94. It is a matter of credibility
Mon May 6, 2019, 07:55 AM
May 2019

Who has more credibility on political strategy? Someone who has been elected Speaker twice or or someone sitting anonymously behind their computer at home.

Rambling Man

(249 posts)
96. So absolutely no person whatsoever
Mon May 6, 2019, 07:57 AM
May 2019

who is not in politics who would never have a shot at being Speaker can't say anything because they have no credibility?

Sounds very "Dear Leader" and totalitarian to me.

Kinda like the way they do things in North Korea.

What's next? are we going to be told the Speaker doesn't go to the bathroom or created the sun or some shit like that?

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
98. Never said that
Mon May 6, 2019, 08:31 AM
May 2019

They can say what they want. But if they want to put their political judgement up against that of someone who has been elected Speaker twice, they should be expected to be called out on it.

Rambling Man

(249 posts)
99. Someone said this about this exact same thing
Mon May 6, 2019, 08:35 AM
May 2019

" . . . someone sitting anonymously behind their computer at home."

robbedvoter

(28,290 posts)
44. Center-left. It's what she said. NYT headline edited "left" and you all jump on her
Sun May 5, 2019, 07:09 PM
May 2019

would be nice if people read the article before jumping.

 

doompatrol39

(428 posts)
56. So....he won't contest if we nominate a centrist?
Sun May 5, 2019, 08:20 PM
May 2019

But will if we nominate a liberal?

Jesus Christ.

And is there a single bit of evidence that it was moderates who "flocked to the party in 2018"? Or are we just supposed to take that on faith?

And the thing I don't get about all of this "WE MUST NOMINATE A MODERATE/CENTRIST!!!!" is that it is built on a foundational logic that Hillary lost in 2016 because she was......too liberal?

I mean I know our party's logic is that if we lose it's always because of progressives/liberals/the left, and that moderate centrism can never actual fail it can only be failed by the dirty hippies.....but hearing her say it out loud is even more disheartening than normal.

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
67. No, her point is that we need to win by a large enough margin that he can't contest.
Sun May 5, 2019, 11:17 PM
May 2019

A point that was rather clear, though the NY Times managed to mangle it in the headline.

And she didn't say "centrist", she said "center-left". They're not remotely the same thing.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
78. I'm 71 years old
Mon May 6, 2019, 04:53 AM
May 2019

and have been voting for Democrats all of my life and I have never heard this strategy that we have to win by a large margin or our win will be deemed tainted by the loser. To me that attitude is defeatist. That's like saying that my sports team has to win by 2 touchdowns, my baseball team by 6 runs, my basketball team by 25 points. That's defeatist if you ask me. I'm sorry but when my sports team wins by 1, I celebrate, and when my opponents team cries they were cheated I just laugh at them for being sore losers.

 

doompatrol39

(428 posts)
95. Either way, it's ridiculous...
Mon May 6, 2019, 07:57 AM
May 2019

If we win, we win. As someone else already responded, if you win by 1 you still win regardless of how poor a sport the other team is.
The fact that she is putting this arbitrary goalpost up there sends a terrible message, that Republicans get to call the shots and Republicans get to set the parameters. Almost as bad as her message that we shouldn't take any risks in holding Trump accountable.

And again, it also presupposes that Hillary was somehow less of a "center-left" candidate than Obama was. People can revise history all they want, but the fact is that regardless of what happened after he took office, Obama's 2008 campaign was quite liberal, and Hillary's 2016 campaign was very "center-left". I'm not sure why that lesson is conveniently always lost in these discussions. We were told we needed a moderate candidate like Hillary in 2016 in order to win, she got the nomination, and lost the electoral college. Now revisionists want to claim that she was too liberal and we need to move more to the center?

Rambling Man

(249 posts)
69. We live in a banana republic
Sun May 5, 2019, 11:31 PM
May 2019

is everyone and everything compromised?

There won't be a free and fair election in 2020. Just like the last one.

The republicans will act in bad faith NO MATTER WHAT. You can't pin the life of our republic on potentialities that may never materialize.

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
76. I sometimes wonder what centrist believe is too far to the left. The Communist Manifesto?
Mon May 6, 2019, 04:13 AM
May 2019

So a "moderate" Democrat might vote for Trump? I just don't know what they want.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
83. People fall for the propaganda they see ,
Mon May 6, 2019, 05:15 AM
May 2019

from the corporate controlled right wing M$M.

The issues that Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Andrew Yang espouse when taken issue by issue are all popular with the American people. What the M$M calls the far left is popular with the majority of Americans.

We won in 2018 because we ran as FDR Democrats. Sure, all politics is local, there are some areas of the country where we need to be more centrist, but overall we won a blue tsunami by not running as moderates.

The only way we lose in 2020 is if we don't turn out to vote. Not impeaching Trump is not going to inspire our base to turn out.

Put Maxine Waters in charge of the impeachment committee and give her 12 freshman Congresspersons and let the fur fly, if we do that I guarantee that we will bury Trump in a landslide, and maybe get 50 Senate seats in the process.

Rambling Man

(249 posts)
86. 2018 happened because it was a reaction against Trump
Mon May 6, 2019, 07:37 AM
May 2019

not because Democrats wanted to become more Reagan-like.

BeyondGeography

(39,278 posts)
84. More pointless proclamations that put us in a box
Mon May 6, 2019, 06:11 AM
May 2019

Last edited Mon May 6, 2019, 07:14 AM - Edit history (1)

Trump isn’t worth impeaching.

Trump has to be defeated in a landslide, or else.

Democrats need to be mainstream center left or they will blow it.

What is to be gained by any of that? These are Pelosi’s personal opinions, each is highly debatable, highly disputed within our party and can easily be turned into a Republican talking point. Her statement about the election margin is even borderline reckless. Defeatism and learned helplessness are what I hear. Not anything resembling strong leadership that’s for sure. Would that the Speaker spent less time educating Democrats on their limitations and more attacking Republicans.

duforsure

(11,882 posts)
85. trump is desperate now
Mon May 6, 2019, 07:25 AM
May 2019

And he and putin could be planning an event to distract, a major event would not surprise me now, or trump just declaring the election is illegally done,when he was illegally doing things all along. Cyber attack to the infrastructure? A war breakout? They could pull something off here before this election so trump could declare martial law to bypass everyone. They're capable of doing anything. HE has too much to lose if he loses the election.

Tarc

(10,472 posts)
88. Being Republican-lite, aka "moderate", is not a winning strategy
Mon May 6, 2019, 07:45 AM
May 2019

Offer the voters an actual progressive platform, highlight how different it is from conservatism. That is how you attract voters, as we saw in 2018.

gldstwmn

(4,575 posts)
113. So basically you just told
Mon May 6, 2019, 02:35 PM
May 2019

him and Barr there will be no consequences for their actions while Trump is on the phone with Putin doing god knows what and the entire executive branch and part of the legislative will do the same. In five years the judiciary will rule they were wrong if by some miracle they still exist. Apologies for the run on sentences. The time to act is now.

wryter2000

(46,016 posts)
126. Who cares if he contests it?
Mon May 6, 2019, 03:22 PM
May 2019

Otherwise, I'm in total agreement with her. Impeachment won't remove him from office, and that's the main goal. If he can't be taken out in handcuffs, he's in office until January of 2021.

Keep up the investigations. Keep up the pressure. Show him to be the liar and tyrant that he is right up until the presidential election. 38% of the vote won't win it for him.

In the meantime, impeach Barr.

pbmus

(12,418 posts)
131. THIS.....🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝
Mon May 6, 2019, 04:35 PM
May 2019

Everyone talks about Nixon, Nixon, Nixon....

The Big Con is Not Nixon....

He is 100 times worse

And has a political apparatus that will mow down impeachment proceedings...

We must continue on this investigations process with ...

Every week a new scandal...

Fiendish Thingy

(15,366 posts)
130. Here's a rebuttal to Pelosi:
Mon May 6, 2019, 03:50 PM
May 2019
https://www.salon.com/2019/05/06/are-centrist-candidates-really-the-most-electable-it-may-be-the-opposite/

“All of which is to to say that the "centrist" model for a Democrat has it exactly backwards. If the goal is to win over swing voters in Midwestern states, the winning strategy isn't to back an economically centrist candidate like Biden, but a Democrat who appeals so strongly to these voters with progressive economic policies that they're willing to set aside the racial resentment that led them to vote for Trump.

[snip]

What these elections demonstrate is that voters aren't really inspired by playing it safe or moving to the center. Instead, candidates do better by convincing voters that this election is a historic moment and they don't want to be left on the sidelines. There are a number of 2020 candidates who have that juice for different reasons: Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Pete Buttigieg and Kamala Harris all seem to be generating excitement at their rallies. It could be catastrophic if Democratic voters, laboring under the panicky delusion that only a "centrist" can win, blow their chance to beat Trump by nominating exactly the wrong kind of candidate”
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Pelosi Warns Democrats: S...