I'll begin this by saying that I have nothing positive to say; no optimistic speculations; no

[Atticus]

theories about how our leaders know more than we do and "everything is going to work out fine."

We are in a situation where every decent thinking American KNOWS in their hearts and minds that Trump is an incompetent traitorous criminal. Note that I said every "decent thinking American". That now excludes approximately 99% of the moral pygmies still calling themselves Republicans. If they still support this steaming pile in the White House, they are either irredeemable fools or they truly relish the cesspool ambiance of this regime because it is increasing their personal wealth and power.

When we discuss our desire that "justice" be done, let's acknowledge that means literally dozens of people, who have "served" in the White House, the cabinet or the Congress should DIE IN PRISON. To excuse any will be all the encouragement that some budding Trump/McConnell-wannabe will need to start this nightmare all over again in a few years.

Personally, I am in favor of any colorably legal action that stands a chance of flushing Trump out of the White House before he gets us into a "wag the dog war", starts jailing Democrats or calls off the 2020 election as "unnecessary". Everything I can think of requires "going all in"; betting it all.

Bleak? You damn betcha. But that's how things look from the cheap seats.

[Chin music]

1. Describing facts on the ground that are bleak, doesn't make you grumpy or negative.

Means you are astute.

[rzemanfl]

3. +1. n/t

[saidsimplesimon]

26. I agree.

"Bleak? You damn betcha. But that's how things look from the cheap seats." Thanks Atticus

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. Thank you for the wake-up call, my dear Atticus. I mean that.

I absolutely agree. It needs to be stopped in its tracks pronto. We don't need to face this crap ever again.

[JohnnyLib2]

4. Wish I could argue with your point of view

---but can't.

[AlexSFCA]

5. I think worst is yet to come

[erronis]

6. And maybe the best will follow. While I think we can go deeper

I also think that we can eventually clean out this mess in the WH and the corrupt politicians.

My hopes, anyhoo.

[I_have_had_enough]

14. It does seem

The ugliness has escalated.
And those bastards on the right just seem to embrace it.
Sad situation.

[DemocracyMouse]

19. Instead of WWIII to reboot the planet (which, like the first two, would be horrible)...

... we need to put Trump and 100 Republicans in jail, The Russians need to do the same with Putin, China with its dictator, and so on.

It's D-Day people, and impeachment is the weapon. All hands on deck. IMPEACH THE CRIMINAL AND TRAITOR.

[defacto7]

7. I totally agree.

[blueinredohio]

16. That makes three of us

[CanonRay]

8. Wish I could give a rosy glow to this

but I can't

[pangaia]

9. I am in total agreement.

DEMNS have to tell the 'public!'

Hire some PR guy or gal who has their shit together andd get it done.
Tell the BIG STORY.. not just all the day to day disasters..
The USA is being taken down by a foreign power with the complicit assistance of the REPUBLICAN PARTY

REPUBLICAN PARTY
REPUBLICAN PARTY
REPUBLICAN PARTY
REPUBLICAN PARTY

Repeat it over and over!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

12. +1

[BobTheSubgenius]

10. I don't blame you, or disagree a bit.

In fact, I don't think I'm being alarmist when I say that this is the most dangerous time for American democracy and the union as a whole since the Civil War.

Neither of the world wars put the literal stricture of the country in anything like this kind of peril. Even losing a world war (which was NEVER going to happen) would have left the nation bruised, but intact.

[Pobeka]

11. They are getting their abortion bans, so it's worth it to them.

If not for that, many, many would be running away from Trump.

I think the GOP is forced into actually passing abortion ban legislation to keep the right wingers on board. Abortion and Trump support are politically linked.

IMHO.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

13. Agree. Don't get why you don't get flamed but so what

[Ferrets are Cool]

15. Unfortunately, I must agree

[anarch]

17. if we don't find a way to deal with the situation within the bounds of the law

it's going to come to a head, and it is not going to be pretty.

I don't have any bright ideas either; the Republicans have completely abandoned the rule of law, and are forcing the situation. Of course, chaos and discord, even to the point of riots and disruption of our society, is exactly what Putin likely wants most of all. These are dark times.

[SergeStorms]

18. I'm starting to believe...

that the GOP never intends on having another free, legitimate election, ever again. This is the big push into a fascist dictatorship that they've wanted since Nixon was impeached. Trump has so damaged our country that it will never return to way it was before. He's stacked the judicial system with right-wing zealots that will "legally" uphold their coup and we'll be subject to their fascist dictatorship ad infinitum. Who's to stop them when they just refuse to stand down? The people of this country? They can't tear themselves away from the television long enough to educate themselves about what's really going on in our country.

For the first time I'm happy that I'm closer to the end of my life than the beginning. How's that for "bleak"?

[C Moon]

20. Even if we do have an election, I think Trump is going to win. It won't be fair by any means.

And I imagine he and Putin are demanding the popular vote this time.
Putin knows how to make that happen.
I keep waiting for people to fall out of windows, too—I wonder when that begins.

[relayerbob]

21. Honestly...

I wish the military would take their vow of protecting us from all enemies, foreign and domestic, seriously. I trust the Pentagon far more that the GOP

[Perseus]

24. The danger with all this is that the military can be corrupted, & many in high ranks may be already

I know that the son of a friend who is in high command thinks the buffoon is the greatest thing, and this guy handles high security information, it is kind of scary.

We have Flynn and Kelly, two high ranking military men who are extremely corrupt, I keep wondering how many more there are.

One move that all dictators always make is to corrupt the military, that is where the strength lies to keep their regime functioning, and what I have seen from the buffoon, how he works that does not differ from other dictators, it makes me think that he and his cronies have been already working on those high ranking military officials. Let us not forget that a lot of the military did not choose to go into service because of patriotism, they chose it because they wanted to have a better economic life, and the military provided the opportunity, if given the chance to do even better monetarily, I believe many will forget their patriotism and embrace the corrupt life, as we have seen from the two I mentioned earlier.

And let us not forget Petreus who gave away his patriotism for a pussy.

[relayerbob]

29. Understood

But my entire family are high-ranking officers, and I know that your examples are the exceptions, not the rule.

[Perseus]

31. I don't doubt you are correct, but it is the few that create the problem for everyone else

I have experience with countries that have been taken by dictators, there are many things that are common in their methodology, and that is to recruit high ranking officers, and they know who they are, they also know who they are not and those who are not are usually let go, not sure if you remember the military officer GW Bush let go for early retirement because he didn't agree with the number of troops to take to Iraq? That is an example, and then you have Flynn, Kelly, Petreus and who knows how many more, who will jump t the opportunity to be party of the dictatorship and the coffers of the country.

My friend's son is a high ranking officer in the Navy, and it is very scary to hear him, and his mother talk. This guy is very high ranking, nice guy but with the wrong ideas.

The other danger with our situation is that the buffoon is married to Putin, what the buffoon said in Helsinki about the great idea Putin had of sending his people to help with the investigation should give us all a clue of what the plans are. For example, in Venezuela, Fidel Castro sent "Doctors" to provide "Free Healthcare", the irony of it is that Venezuela has "Free Healthcare" and some of the best doctors in the World. If you go to Massachusetts, the Mass General Hospital has three Venezuelan doctors as head of departments. Now, back to the Cuban "Doctors"; you cannot imagine how many people they killed giving them the wrong medicine, not knowing how to operate, but of course they were not there to be doctors, they slowly were infiltrated into the military, and by some calculations, there are about 25,000 Cubans occupying all sorts of ranks in the Venezuelan military.

Hopefully, there are more like those in your family and they will do the right thing. Part of the danger is that the low rank tend to obey the higher ranks and ask no questions.

Take a look at these pictures and videos from Venezuela of military abusing civilians:
[link:https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=v_DVXMy5GIH6tAW0oaNg&q=fotos+de+guardia+nacional+bolivariana+agrediendo+civiles&oq=fotos+de+guardia+nacional+bolivariana+agrediendo+civiles&gs_l=psy-ab.12...1372.15704..16278...2.0..1.456.9192.1j52j3j1j2......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..35i39j0i131j0j0i10j0i22i30j0i19j0i22i30i19j0i13i30i19j0i8i13i30i19j33i22i29i30j33i160j33i299.jNzA-cCHJtc|

[relayerbob]

33. Sad part is ...

we are already there. Trump is seizing more dictatorial powers by the day with the help of traitors like McConnell. A simple election or two are not going to fix the problems we have. I have no interest in a military coup, but if one were fashioned to take out the criminals in DC, and the Fox-Murdoch-Putin-NRA-GOP axis, with a planned return to normality, I could support it. I have no illusions however, and fully understand your concerns. This really is likely only to end one way, and I would prefer it to occur sooner than after millions or billions have died

[Celerity]

43. Yes, because military coups d'etat always end so well!

[Doreen]

22. That is how I have been feeling for a long time now.

Whatever the word is used to describe a ruler who demands absolute control, divideds with hate, is cruel, loves death from suffering, is selfish beyond belief, and anything else that an evil person may be or do is what trump is.

I think his family is going to take over with more than an iron fist.

I think possibly Obama was the last president this country will ever have for a very very very long time.

I know this sounds like conspiracy theorist crap but what has given any glimmer of hope? I am still holding on to some little weak patch of hope for one of our candidates to keep that from happening but.....we'll see.

I have always said that I will aways vote as long as I am allowed to and it looks like that time may be coming. Even if it did not mean crap at least I would be voicing my opinion and feelings.

Until then my friends keep fighting and keep voting.

[Perseus]

23. Most everything you said is good, but we need to stop saying they are "incompetent"

They are not incompetent, they are evil, they did not get into politics and government to do good things for the country and the people, that may give the perception of incompetence, but far from it. They are moving their agenda and destroying everything in their path, which has been their goal all along, to enrich themselves by destroying the fabric that has been holding the country strong for decades.

To think they are incompetent is wrong, it makes people focus on other things instead of trying to read their next move to counter it.

They are not incompetent, they are evil.

[Kurt V.]

34. +1

[Corgigal]

45. Hardcore,

but truthful. Trump has only worsen with age, he enjoys hurting people. So evil it is.

[csziggy]

25. I'm getting flashbacks to 1972-74

It was incredibly depressing after the 1972 election - the first one I could vote in - when Nixon won with such a huge majority. I knew and all my friends knew that he was a crook and an asshole. We watch the Watergate hearings in between college classes and threw a HUGE party the day he resigned.

At this point I think we might be nearing a tipping point, the same way the country did with Nixon. Cohen's testimony, the willingness of the Democratically controlled House to have hearings, and (as with Watergate) the continual pounding on Trump's misdeeds by the news media are all starting to seep into all but the most die hard Trumpster.

What worries me is that with Nixon I never was worried that he would endanger the country while I am concerned that Trump is willing to destroy the world to save himself.

I am sure that we have gotten to this point by letting Nixon's crimes slide. Ford should NOT have pardoned him. Nixon should have gone to trial for his obstruction of justice. Then Reagan and his crowd were allowed to get away with even more egregious crimes, same for George HW Bush and George W Bush. Now we have a real traitor in the White House and the GOP that stands for crimes is enabling the deterioration of the system of checks and balances that was specified in the Constitution.

We need to stop this NOW and bring back the equality of the parts of the government - no more giving the President more power than any other part of the government.

[CrispyQ]

27. We are in as dire a situation as we've ever been in & could topple either way. -nt

[cilla4progress]

28. Anyone else hear Cynthia Alksne on Chris Hayes last night

says she's depressed?

[elocs]

30. No optimistic speculations--how unDUlike of you to be in touch with reality.

I mean, isn't this the place where if you really, really want something to happen, it will. Where DUers were celebrating a Mueller touchdown and spiking the ball before the report was ever released only to learn that Mueller punted.
Yes, Trump can be impeached but he will never be convicted by the Senate and so will not be forced from office. Then we can listen to him endlessly gloat about how he was found innocent.
And the 25th Amendment? Outside of a Liberal pipe dream or in DU fantasyland, that will never happen either. Pence and a majority would never invoke it and if they did, Trump would simply declare himself to be fine and force a 2/3 vote in BOTH the House AND Senate.

So Trump will serve out his term. If the Left can unite and hold it together without factionalizing and pouting about their candidate not getting the nomination (yes, the BoBs are still alive, well, and stupid) Trump will be defeated.
But he will not go gently into that good night after losing. Trump will declare there was massive voter fraud, that there was a conspiracy against him by the Left and that he was robbed--pretty much what he would have done in 2016 had he lost then (the reality is that Trump will be listed in the history books as the 45th POTUS and there will be no asterisk by his name).
He will stir up his followers, violence and maybe deaths will result, but he will deny he did anything to provoke them.
Imagine the executive orders and pardons and mischief he will do in those final 2 1/2 months in office. It's not going to be pretty.

If somehow Trump wins reelection, it may be a generation until the nation is even remotely back to where it was before he took office, if ever.

So there's not much to be optimistic about for awhile.

[11 Bravo]

32. Almost 63,000,000 Americans voted for Donald Fucking Trump.

It's been "bleak" for a while now.

[The Liberal Lion]

35. Thank you for this

I am in the same camp as you. We, and I mean the "decent thinking Americans" you spoke of, have allowed this insult, this act of treason, this total betrayal to go on, fester, and metastasize too long. We should have shut this government down on day one. Hell, the day after the election we should have gone on a rampage (not a violent one, but a massive and sustained protest that shut down both government and commerce). However, I fear we have come too far to even have hope for a "peaceful" outcome. What trump and the right represents is the absolute antithesis of being American. No, I speak not only of the racism, hell racism is as American as apple pie, but even moreso the fascism, the religious totalitarianism, the authoritarianism, and lest I forget the "in your face I don't give a shit if you know about it" criminality. This is decline of empire. I personally see no way forward for a peaceful outcome without complete submission by the "decent thinking Americans". I know not how this will turn out, but what I see isn't encouraging. Too many have normalized this shit. I not only expect the worst, I've prepared for it. At this juncture I hope many of you, those belonging to the "decent thinking America" will do what you need to do to prepare as well.

[sop]

36. Who is going to stop Trump?

He's purged the DOJ, FBI, CIA and the various intelligence agencies of any opposition. Control of the SCOTUS has been usurped and the judiciary is being packed. Trump's entire cabinet, from departments of State, Defense, Homeland Security, down to Energy, Housing, and Interior are all run by corrupt, fawning appointees.

White nationalists, nazis, racists and nativists run the White House. Journalists have been beaten down, physically attacked and murdered with impunity. Many have just been banished from the WH; the few remaining have been neutered by corporate ownership, forced to act as stenographers to Trump's dictates.

The electoral process has been hacked, voters suppressed and Democracy subverted. Long established laws are ignored and overturned. Subpoenas aren't worth the paper they're printed on, recipients laugh at the prospect of being "held in contempt." Congress is toothless, oversight a complete farce.

Corporate interests have taken control of our government; it isn't broken, it's been fixed. Obviously, the rule of law does not apply to Trump or any of his henchmen. Who's left to launch any more investigations now? Who can bring Trump to heel? The courts? The military? Not likely.

Whenever I hear a Democrat going on about "holding Trump accountable," I'm reminded of the words, "It is a tale. Told by an idiot. Full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing."

[BlueWI]

38. Accurate post.

The political opposition has to reach new heights of focus and courage. We'll see!

[trev]

37. This is a bleak thread,

but unfortunately, I must agree with what is being said here. Trump doesn't need a Reichstag Fire; he's already well on his way to burning down everything. And this is exactly what the Rand-addled Laffler Curve cultists want.

Speaking of whom, Rand was probably prophetic when she opened The Fountainhead with the line:

"Howard Roark laughed."

[sigpooie]

39. So lets do numbers

250 million adults in USA.
63 million idiots
73 million children that could out smart the idiots, plus 175 million people pissed off at the idiots.
In a game of Risk, you dont make that move, because you can loose all to quicky.
We should always consider who is trying to hurt us, and in this case, its an egocentric idiot, with little man syndrome. So how do we counteract his ability to rig our elections?
Here is where the children come in. Offer one million dollars to any hacker that can screw up putties systems. Then follow up with millenials buying up russian properties and businesses. Follow that with everyone else bitching publicly about him. And within 6 months, his twitter counts should ruin him.
For anyone thinking this won't work, look up what just happened here. With a lot less people and money.

[llmart]

40. Unfortunately, you are correct.

I wish you weren't and I also wish I didn't agree with you, but I've lived too long and experienced too much to be a pollyanna. We need to deal in reality not what we want it to be, but what it is. And right now, what it is is a royal class mess. The apathy of Americans has finally caught up to them and we're all going to pay the price.

[Rambling Man]

41. pshaw . . .

you just need to embrace the vision of Nancy Pelosi putting on her sunglasses, is all!

[Celerity]

42. before he gets us into a "wag the dog war", starts jailing Democrats or calls off the 2020 election

Never thought I would say it, but all 3 are within the realm of possibility.

[townie]

44. good points to ponder!

!!

[Corgigal]

46. Got a question,

since this appears to be the for real thread.

The debt ceiling is coming again, does anyone have an ideas on how bad or not bad this can get? Does anyone have any suggestions on what we can do now to protect our families? I've been thinking about this for the past few days and I don't know what I can do for a concrete plan.
Thanks, anyone.