How many voters would be so upset by impeachment that it would convince them to vote FOR Trump?

[ETStevens]

The answer is people who were never going to vote for a Democrat anyway!

I have struggled with the impeachment dilemma because the Republicans and Fox can message and spin so well and somehow Trump will be the "victim".

However, we are on a perilous course with Trump blatantly defying the law everyday and we can no be afraid of impeaching the president for high crimes and misdemeanors.

It seems to me that televised impeachment proceedings will show well over 20 impeachable offensives and even without a conviction, you will put several hypocritical Republican Senators on the defensive, having to explain why they only support impeachment charges for a Democrat leading into an election year. Democrats in the House could be so good at presenting a compelling case to the American people that will help cause a major Blue Wave in 2020.

I now say we need to Go For It!

[no_hypocrisy]

1. Tough to tell, but I return to the Sinclair Lewis story of Elmer Gantry.

(Spoiler Alert): At the end of the 450+ page book, Elmer has been seriously outed for his sins and travesties and crimes. And the congregation welcomes him back with opened arms collectively.

There is no hope in America, whether it's the 1920's or nearly a century later.

[ETStevens]

2. Great Analogy!

I just think it is worth the fight!

[no_hypocrisy]

3. No argument from me on that point.

I also believe these true believers *might* stay home rather than vote for a Democrat.

[WhiteTara]

7. are you looking for a skirmish win?

or to win the whole game? We are all going to die and now with 416 ppm CO2, it's a matter of time anyway. But with republicons taking over the narrative on Fox? The hearing will be botted off the air. No,
this is almost like the hare and the tortoise fable.

[Midnightwalk]

4. If no impeachment hearings

Trump will say he was exonerated so bigly that “Even the Democrats knew they had nothing “

Let the hearings take appropriate time so that there are daily news reports and scandal. Not purposely or too slow or too many will permanently tune out.

The fight over getting the full report, the subpoena and the claims that the executive branch has exonerated itself are historic. We have to win.

[Iliyah]

5. Dems know what they are doing.

Media is screaming for impeachment. Let the Dems handled t-rump their way.

[ETStevens]

6. What is the right way?

[ehrnst]

17. Democrats have selected their House Leadership on the basis of her

experience, smarts and skill.

Who do you think has the most tools to decide what the "right way" is?

You?

[coti]

12. Let him do whatever he wants, until we don't have a democracy anymore?

Doesn't sound like a great plan to me.

[uponit7771]

8. The party of the impeached has never fared well in elections post impeachment

[ehrnst]

16. As I've pointed out to you before, every POTUS that has been impeached was in their second term

and statistically, it's unlikely to keep the WH in the party for more than two consecutive terms.

Not the case with Trump, is it?

[uponit7771]

18. lol ... sup e !!, As I've pointed out to you in COUNTER Americans don't mind third terms.

[ehrnst]

20. So why are they so rare?

You really don't like being corrected, do you?

[uponit7771]

22. Because good administrations are rare, you really don't like your world challenged do you? :grin:

[ehrnst]

23. Nice evasion of the question.... when you have nothing.

[uponit7771]

24. Direct... EMPIRICAL... answer to direct question. 3 admins would've been 3 termers in my lifetime

... if it weren't for impeachment or recorded cheating by the Russians.

When you have your world challenged by the facts call the facts nothing hunh?

Doesn't work

[ehrnst]

25. You are prickly today.

And full of parallel universe, alternate reality scenarios.

If you think that the bias against a Party being a third termer in the WH didn't play into any of those scenarios, your world is the one challenged by the facts.

[uponit7771]

27. Naw man, just factual and of course there's bias ... but good admins overcome them and have

... 3 times in my lifetime save recorded cheating and impeachment.

So no, your position on 3rd terms doesn't sound grounded relative to the facts that we both agree on.

[ehrnst]

29. Well, facts are likely very different in that alternate universe

where people "don't mind" third terms so I don't imagine that we would agree on them.

Are there mosquitos there? I hate mosquitos.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/historic-re-election-pattern-doesnt-favor-democrats-in-2016

[uponit7771]

30. Your article doesn't factor in the Russians helping Red Don

[ehrnst]

31. Because the article was written before the election. It does explain the

third term hurdle, which is what I was talking about.

Did you read it?

[uponit7771]

32. Then its irrelevant, you got any relevant empirical information to counter my position that ...

... impeachment doesn't fare well for the party of the impeached other than anti 3rd term bias?

tia

[ETStevens]

9. So Trump gets to keep breaking the law without consequences?

According to the Washington Post tonight, Speaker Pelosi is calling on Democrats to fall in line on no impeachment.

Unprovoked War with Iran? No impeachment.

Rejecting Congress as a coequal branch of government? No impeachment.

Keep profiting off the presidency? No Impeachment.

Investigate the Investigators? No Impeachment

And no game plan to counter election hacking or voter suppression for 2020.

BRILLIANT!

[ehrnst]

21. Can you post a link to the WAPO article?

And could you also explain your qualifications to keyboard quarterback with these "OMG the sky is falling because PELOSI!" posts?

[fescuerescue]

10. It's not about changing anyones minds

Trump supporters will never decide to NOT support Trump over impeachment. NO-ONE is changing their minds. The entire nation made their decision about Trump in 2016 and the avalanche of facts since then has only reinforced every ones opinion (pro or con)

Democratic supporters will never decide to support Trump because he wasn't impeached, or because he was. It's *ALL* about what does impeachment do to voter turnout on both the left and right.

Will it enrage Trump voters so that they crash the polls? Or will they become apathetic and not show up? Same for Dems.

It's about voter turnout and which side will get the 1 to 4% bumo that is necessary to win.

[larwdem]

11. go for it

No impeachment trump wins. hang impeached tag on his ass the same way they did to Clinton.
forever known as impeached by the house.

[Lock him up.]

13. I would advise to wait for Mueller to testify, and...

maybe his staff too, after he will be done with what he has to finish and left the DOJ.

That would get enough attention, even if a few weeks before November 3.

The orange menace will not attack Iran if Putin doesn't want him to.

[Voltaire2]

14. Zero effectively.

Only his fascist base buys this argument.

[Kid Berwyn]

15. Impeachment would serve to illuminate treason.

Hearings would make it plain to see that Trump works for Putin.

I don’t understand how that would help the Bankrupt Unstable Moron politically.

And if the Senate won’t convict, at least his supporters’ names will live in infamy as co-traitors.

[ElementaryPenguin]

19. ZERO.

Not ONE that wasn't going to be voting for him already.

[ehrnst]

26. You really have it out for Pelosi, don't you?

[Skittles]

28. none

it's just a pathetic excuse

[BlueWI]

33. Donald J. Trump deserves the indignity of impeachment

and his presidency is a threat to democracy.

2020 is a pivotal election either way.

Every tool in the shed is needed, including impeachment.

I respect the role of experience in leadership, but sometimes, it's possible to miss the signs of changing conditions if you're the leader of a large organization. Democratic leadership in the House has viewed impeachment as too difficult and divisive, but they are realizing now that the Senate and President do not respect rule of law enough to even pretend to cooperate. And the factionalizing of the national population and the media has gone too far already.

We'll see what happens. 2020 is a must win, impeachment or not.