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Thu May 16, 2019, 11:51 AM

 

Nancy Pelosi Just Destroyed Trump's Obstruction With Impeachment

This article makes a good point.

The House Democrats need to do a thorough investigation to decide if they should impeach Trump.

And the courts will support this effort, due to its strong constitutional support.

Trump can't obstruct an impeachment investigation.

Which is what Pelosi is already doing.

Pelosi said, “One of the purposes that the Constitution spells out for investigation is impeachment, and so you can say, and the courts would respect if you said, we need this information to carry out our oversight responsibilities, and among them is impeachment. It doesn’t mean you’re going on an impeachment path, but it means if you had the information, you might. So, it isn’t about impeachment. It’s about impeachment as a purpose, a constitutional purpose for and justifying constitutionally and court wise a path.”

Read More: https://www.politicususa.com/2019/05/16/nancy-pelosi-trump-impeachment.html

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Reply Nancy Pelosi Just Destroyed Trump's Obstruction With Impeachment (Original post)
Vidal May 2019 OP
standingtall May 2019 #1
Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #8
DownriverDem May 2019 #17
Jarqui May 2019 #27
PoindexterOglethorpe May 2019 #30
samnsara May 2019 #31
PoindexterOglethorpe May 2019 #33
Jarqui May 2019 #34
Snarkoleptic May 2019 #63
Vidal May 2019 #65
LiberalFighter May 2019 #46
CentralMass May 2019 #54
Trueblue Texan May 2019 #64
LiberalFighter May 2019 #45
wryter2000 May 2019 #2
manor321 May 2019 #3
Skittles May 2019 #5
Grasswire2 May 2019 #6
yaesu May 2019 #7
EveHammond13 May 2019 #10
Maven May 2019 #11
CrispyQ May 2019 #13
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #56
Rambling Man May 2019 #60
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #62
Rambling Man May 2019 #68
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #71
shanny May 2019 #77
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #80
Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #14
larwdem May 2019 #16
DownriverDem May 2019 #18
Thekaspervote May 2019 #57
shanny May 2019 #78
samnsara May 2019 #32
SergeStorms May 2019 #61
shanny May 2019 #79
EffieBlack May 2019 #37
KPN May 2019 #42
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #55
mr_lebowski May 2019 #4
Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #9
DownriverDem May 2019 #20
mr_lebowski May 2019 #22
Maven May 2019 #29
StarfishSaver May 2019 #40
KPN May 2019 #44
Rambling Man May 2019 #59
CrispyQ May 2019 #69
Rambling Man May 2019 #72
Wellstone ruled May 2019 #12
Javaman May 2019 #15
EffieBlack May 2019 #38
ginnyinWI May 2019 #19
DownriverDem May 2019 #21
ffr May 2019 #23
LiberalLovinLug May 2019 #24
tritsofme May 2019 #25
Vidal May 2019 #28
man4allcats May 2019 #26
proud patriot May 2019 #35
G_j May 2019 #36
Amyishere May 2019 #58
warmfeet May 2019 #39
SlogginThroughIt May 2019 #49
stopwastingmymoney May 2019 #51
jalan48 May 2019 #41
Nitram May 2019 #48
YOHABLO May 2019 #50
emmaverybo May 2019 #53
Nitram May 2019 #73
emmaverybo May 2019 #75
Nitram May 2019 #74
samplegirl May 2019 #43
Nitram May 2019 #47
JohnnyRingo May 2019 #52
NoMoreRepugs May 2019 #66
Vidal May 2019 #67
Rambling Man May 2019 #70
Raven123 May 2019 #76

Response to Vidal (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:01 PM

1. And if the courts don't resolve these matters before 2020

than it is all for nought. The house can investigate while holding impeachment proceedings.

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Response to standingtall (Reply #1)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:44 PM

8. exactly. and people balking at showing up for the investigations. Wonder

what more they need on obstruction? The people who say he asked them to break the law?

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Response to standingtall (Reply #1)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:25 PM

17. Those investigations

can be flipped to Impeachment hearings immediately. I think the Dems are doing a great job with following the process. I wish folks knew how it went. You don't do impeachment hearings without the country on your side. People screaming about why don't they do it now, do not understand how it goes. Stop attacking the Dems.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #17)

Thu May 16, 2019, 02:12 PM

27. "You don't do impeachment hearings without the country on your side."

Exactly.

But you do the investigation to reveal to the public what has gone on. That brings the country around.

It took a while for Nixon.

All we have is a report that got misrepresented to the American people by the Attorney General.

We have not seen the underlying evidence (including testimony).
We haven't heard Mueller or anyone else from his staff testify.
We have nothing yet on the money trail ... remember "follow the money" (Russian & Trump's)
We have nothing on the intelligence investigation

There is still a lot for congress and the public to learn about what went on here.

Get that out into the open and then let's see how the public feels about it.
I think opinions on impeachment will shift.

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #27)

Thu May 16, 2019, 02:34 PM

30. The number of people who want impeachment now

is at the number when they started getting ready to impeach Nixon.

Why wait?

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #30)

Thu May 16, 2019, 02:36 PM

31. because if impeachement doesnt work then what?

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Response to samnsara (Reply #31)

Thu May 16, 2019, 02:45 PM

33. I guess we just go to 2020

delusional enough to think that voters will reject Trump.

If we do nothing he wins. All of the awfulness he's brought about wins. We cannot be good Germans and just be silent. Besides, I was responding to a post about how it took time with Nixon. We don't have much more time, and as I pointed out, as many people now want Trump impeached as wanted Nixon impeached, so why again do we need to wait?

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #30)

Thu May 16, 2019, 03:41 PM

34. Because it is not enough to overcome a corrupt GOP Senate and Attorney General

When Nixon was impeached, the Dems controlled both the House & the Senate.
The Senate was 56 Democrats, 42 Republicans, 1 Conservative, 1 Independent

The present Attorney General is corrupt.
And we do not have a "smoking gun tape" yet

They need a better case than they had against Nixon to succeed.

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #34)

Fri May 17, 2019, 06:39 AM

63. Also, Nixon didn't have Fox Newz spewing propaganda 24/7.

We need televised public hearings so everyone can see the depth and breadth of Trump's corruption.
Reading a 400+ page Mueller report is tough for wage slaves, who are just trying to stay above water.

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Response to Snarkoleptic (Reply #63)

Fri May 17, 2019, 07:20 AM

65. True

 

Yes, certainly Fox News and other right-wing propaganda outlets have had a major influence and this is why Pelosi is being overly cautious about getting all of her ducks in a row before calling it impeachment.

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #27)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:29 PM

46. Yes! If there is no investigation the people won't know.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #17)

Fri May 17, 2019, 12:45 AM

54. If public opinion is gating impeachment we have a major problem.

The threshold for impeachment has been crossed.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #17)

Fri May 17, 2019, 06:45 AM

64. Totally agree! When you attack the Dems,...

...you support the Rethugs! They want the Dems to start impeachment. Don't help them!

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Response to standingtall (Reply #1)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:26 PM

45. I would consider it grounds for impeachment of justices if they delay.

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:01 PM

2. K&R

Exactly.

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:03 PM

3. Stop this fucking bullshit already

 

An actual impeachment inquiry makes it more likely judges will force the handover of material, including breaking through executive privilege and grand jury restrictions.

People who say "just do usual oversight" are actually just trying to avoid impeachment altogether, regardless of what Trump does.

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Response to manor321 (Reply #3)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:16 PM

5. yup

it's just a bullshit excuse

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Response to manor321 (Reply #3)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:19 PM

6. and every day he garners more power to himself and GOP does the same.

Every day, our own power is diminished as RW crashes the Constitution.

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Response to manor321 (Reply #3)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:30 PM

7. well said!. nt

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Response to manor321 (Reply #3)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:46 PM

10. +1

 

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Response to manor321 (Reply #3)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:46 PM

11. Yes, enough.

It's like a form of gaslighting.

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Response to manor321 (Reply #3)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:02 PM

13. Whether one thinks it's true or not, the dems are perceived as weak

& not impeaching reinforces that perception. We gave them a majority to hold this criminal administration accountable. We could lose the House in 2020 if the dems don't go bold & strong. Trump will campaign on "Even Nancy wouldn't impeach me."

For a long time I was one who believed that without the Senate we shouldn't impeach, but the Rude Pundit changed my mind. He pointed out that the House is proceeding with all types of progressive legislation, even though they know McConnell won't bring any of it to the Senate floor, but the House is doing it anyway to make a point.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #13)

Fri May 17, 2019, 01:06 AM

56. And it would be better if Trump could campaign

 

saying he was exonerated after the Senate acquits him?

And only certain Dem bashers will say they are weak.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #56)

Fri May 17, 2019, 03:34 AM

60. Trump is a known liar

and regular people actually understand that. His supporters are cool with it.

Basing ANYTHING on what Trump might POTENTIALLY say is IDIOTIC because he will say and do anything he damn well pleases.

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Response to Rambling Man (Reply #60)

Fri May 17, 2019, 05:59 AM

62. True

 

But an acquittal in the Senate will give him some credibility.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #62)

Fri May 17, 2019, 09:33 AM

68. How so?

Can you characterize this mechanism?

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Response to Rambling Man (Reply #68)

Fri May 17, 2019, 11:19 AM

71. If he's acquitted

 

he can say he was exonerated. Very simple.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #71)

Sat May 18, 2019, 04:51 PM

77. do you seriously think that will persuade anyone

 

who is not already a rump supporter? puhleeeese.

and fwiw, Nancy the master tactician could orchestrate the investigation (Watergate took a year prior to the impeachment hearings) so that it is all on the front page in Oct 2020...or do you think she is not capable of that, or that it would not be a boost to Democrats?

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Response to shanny (Reply #77)

Sat May 18, 2019, 09:48 PM

80. It could persuade undecideds and swing voters in key states

 

Don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone else thinks like us.

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Response to manor321 (Reply #3)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:03 PM

14. +1

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Response to manor321 (Reply #3)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:18 PM

16. agree

can't agree more

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Response to manor321 (Reply #3)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:26 PM

18. Wake up

We aren't there yet, and folks need to get real. Attacking the Dems is disgusting.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #18)

Fri May 17, 2019, 03:12 AM

57. +1000 Pelosi knows what she is doing!! We should trust her and our democratic leadership.

Not blindly, but because first and foremost she/they have our interests and the country’s interests at heart... ALWAYS

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #57)

Sat May 18, 2019, 04:53 PM

78. "Not blindly...but always." ??? um OK

 

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Response to manor321 (Reply #3)

Thu May 16, 2019, 02:38 PM

32. ...and if the Senate blocks our impeachment actions... then what do we have left?

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Response to samnsara (Reply #32)

Fri May 17, 2019, 03:55 AM

61. If the GOP Senators block impeachment...

then it's time for Democrats to make a H-U-G-E issue of that. One way or another the facts and evidence will be presented to the American people. They'll see what an abject scumbag Trump is, and what a sycophantic, obstructing bunch of crooks the Congressional republicans are. Make a campaign issue of it, a BIG campaign issue. Show the American people how unworthy the GOP is, always choosing party over country. We need to retain the House of Representatives and take back the presidency and the senate. End of story! Republicans can't be entrusted with safeguarding the Constitution of the United States.

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Response to samnsara (Reply #32)

Sat May 18, 2019, 04:57 PM

79. Can we PUHLEEESE stop allowing pukes

 

to dictate OUR possible actions?

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Response to manor321 (Reply #3)

Thu May 16, 2019, 05:02 PM

37. An impeachment hearing won't make a judge more likely to so anything

 

The law is the law.

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Response to manor321 (Reply #3)

Thu May 16, 2019, 07:10 PM

42. +1000000!

Just say it! Impeachment Hearings!

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Response to manor321 (Reply #3)

Fri May 17, 2019, 01:02 AM

55. Based on what?

 

What is the evidence that supports your point?

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:04 PM

4. Yeah ... good luck with that ...

You're either holding an impeachment investigation or you're not.

Trying to walk this line where you sorta are/sorta aren't ... likely isn't gonna get you far with the courts IMHO.

Never heard of this particular 'tack' working, I'll put it like that.

It's painfully wishy-washy to me.

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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #4)

Thu May 16, 2019, 12:46 PM

9. perfectly stated "painfully wishy-washy"

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Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #4)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:28 PM

20. No. the process

will show if and when impeachment should start. You want the Dems to plow ahead without their ducks in a row. Why?

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #20)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:36 PM

22. Not exactly what I said ...

Just saying this 'half-in, half-out' tack isn't going to grant any extra imprimatur in the Courts.

The House is in the impeachment process, or they're not.

This cagey, mealy-mouth, half-assed shit ain't going to fly ... in Court.

Not saying 'I know what they should do'.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #20)

Thu May 16, 2019, 02:31 PM

29. At a certain point, "the process" becomes an alibi for inaction. nt

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #20)

Thu May 16, 2019, 06:21 PM

40. Good question

 

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #20)

Thu May 16, 2019, 07:42 PM

44. Yes. It's called an impeachment process. Not

a wishy washy process. Holy hell!

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #20)

Fri May 17, 2019, 03:31 AM

59. Because republicans, if the shoe was on the other foot,

would not hesitate one nanosecond in the names of "process," "precedent," or "tradition."

If Trump was a democrat, he'd be beaten up 9 ways to Sunday with impeachment, impeachment talk, impeachment propaganda, etc.

You get the picture.

Normal rules no longer apply.

All bets are off.

Why can't all these people who supposedly know so much cop to what is happening right in front of their own faces?

One wonders if any of the people involved have any street smarts at all?

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Response to Rambling Man (Reply #59)

Fri May 17, 2019, 09:52 AM

69. +1

I believe that the old time democrats have worked so long with their colleagues across the aisle, that they don't see their republican counterparts for the un-Americans that they are. It's the only explanation I have when I hear long time democratic politicians praising their republican colleagues. There is nothing decent, honorable, or American about the republican party & dem leadership needs to wake up to the fact that these people don't just have a difference of opinion on policy, they want to destroy representative government.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #20)

Fri May 17, 2019, 01:55 PM

72. Are you saying House Dems

can't do more than one thing at a time?

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:01 PM

12. Was there not a 37 page document

 

of Impeachment entered into the Congressional Record some ten or so days ago,by someone from Chairman Nadler's Committee? Or was it a Document in Print process.

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:18 PM

15. if I recall impeachment does just that, investigate.

impeachment only proceeds if there is enough found via the investigation.

more over, when impeachment proceedings occur (emphasis on proceedings) it allow for a larger scope for the release of documents. After the proceedings then impeachment can go forward.

not having impeachment proceedings prevents the large release of documents that one would get otherwise.

not having impeachment proceedings launched is like trying to fight someone with one hand tied behind your back, sure you might beat that person, but it will be a hell of a lot harder.

start the impeachment process now for fuck sakes.

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Response to Javaman (Reply #15)

Thu May 16, 2019, 05:04 PM

38. You're wrong about what an impeachment proceeding does and doesn't do

 

You're buying into a fantasy that doesn't exist.

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:27 PM

19. The last two paragraphs:

Nancy Pelosi has a long-term strategy that she is focused on, and those who want to short-circuit the process by rushing to a doomed impeachment would not only give Trump exactly what he wants, but they would also undercut an investigation of this president that needs to be completed before the 2020 election.

Speaker Pelosi knows what she is doing, and her strategic use of impeachment is going to defeat Trump’s obstruction.

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Response to ginnyinWI (Reply #19)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:29 PM

21. Yes Pelosi does know

what she is doing. Folks that keep attacking her and the Dems are clueless. They sure don't sound like Dems to me.

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:37 PM

23. Start today!

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:38 PM

24. It doesn't mean you're going on an impeachment path...

...but it means if you had the information, you might.




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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 01:48 PM

25. PoliticusUSA is nothing but crappy yellow journalism.

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Response to tritsofme (Reply #25)

Thu May 16, 2019, 02:13 PM

28. Why?

 

What makes you say that? This article seems fine to me.

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 02:05 PM

26. Impeach the bastid! n/t

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 04:56 PM

35. Well she's eeking along .. listening to us

I'll take it

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 05:02 PM

36. Decide???

I want to scream!!!

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Response to G_j (Reply #36)

Fri May 17, 2019, 03:19 AM

58. you are not the only one

But any criticism or genuine expressions of utter frustration get one's 'credentials' as a 'true blue dem' called into account.

I support Warren for president because she came out and said we need to impeach. I DON'T support Nancy Pelosi because she hasn't. period.

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 06:11 PM

39. No impeachment, no white house.

Without impeachment hearings and investigations, official ones, we will lose the next election. You think things suck now, just wait.

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Response to warmfeet (Reply #39)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:50 PM

49. The election is 18 months away.

 

You start the impeachment now and the senate squashes it and it is long forgotten by the time the election rolls around. You can start on impeachment without calling it impeachment until you need to call it impeachment while otherwise making the case to the people that there is a need for impeachment to be brought about at a more critical time to have the best effect on the election. It all depends on having a clear cut case presented to the people and executing it all perfectly. We the ones that want him impeached yesterday are at a fever pitch. There are a lot more that need to catch that fever in order to give impeachment a lot of support and to politically have it's greatest benefit.

We are getting there. My guess is that we want the "to impeach or not" questions front and center in some of the early debate and town halls. That will be a good way to present it to the public, keep a good watch on that fever's temperature and present the case in a less formal setting.


Patience grasshoppers.

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Response to SlogginThroughIt (Reply #49)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:31 PM

51. Yes, I think you're both right

It’s a question of timing

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 06:26 PM

41. Pelosi may know she doesn't have the votes to impeach-tough to swallow but some Dems may vote

against it. What happens if we lose the vote? Trump will be exonerated big time and the failed process may hand the election to him.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #41)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:34 PM

48. An impeachment investigation, done properly, would make it politically impossible for most

Republicans to vote against impeachment. The evidence is overwhelming, and the American people need to have it hit them in the face.

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Response to Nitram (Reply #48)

Thu May 16, 2019, 11:16 PM

50. I honestly think that most Republicans do not care about 'overwhelming evidence'.

 

They are too invested and some have much to lose by their base of voters in their home states.

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #50)

Fri May 17, 2019, 12:25 AM

53. Republicans did not want to impeach Nixon. It took public pressure, lots of.

The public pressure will mount only through an investigation, a procedurally sound one. Investigate first. The courts will be responsive to such an investigation Pelosi is saying, thus granting Dems access to the documents and testimonial evidence they need to impeach.
They can’t impeach with nothing but an unredacted Mueller report in hand.


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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #53)

Sat May 18, 2019, 01:44 PM

73. That's very true. Trump's crimes, rise to a much higher level of criminality and danger to the

country.

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Response to Nitram (Reply #73)

Sat May 18, 2019, 04:19 PM

75. Nixon's impeachable crime nothing to Trump's, but Nixon responsible for deaths of thousands.

He prolonged and escalated the Vietnam war.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/nixon-prolonged-vietnam-war-for-political-gainand-johnson-knew-about-it-newly-unclassified-tapes-suggest-3595441/

If you can stomach it, see Maddow’s “Betrayal: The Plot That Won the White House.” At MSNBC online. She contends he committed treason during his campaign for office.

But of course, Trump is moving on every front, and stupidly. Nixon was a very smart man.

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #50)

Sat May 18, 2019, 01:46 PM

74. By Republican's, I mean republican voters. I hold on to the faint hope that Republican voters

will come to their senses if the case is clearly set before them.

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 07:33 PM

43. I sat an listened to the moron

today...try to turn immigration reform speech into stumping for himself 2020
The more I see his nasty lying face on tv the mor and more I wish impeachment was taking place right the hell now!

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Thu May 16, 2019, 09:32 PM

47. Yes, this is the right strategy.

I'm with Pelosi!

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 12:16 AM

52. The administration said they'd only cooperate with subpoenas if...

...there was a "legislative reason". That's a direct quote.

Well, possible impeachment is now the official legislative reason, so put on your court clothes and we'll see you there.

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 07:29 AM

66. I appreciate the debate on y or n to Impeachment now,

the timing issue to me seems to be critical. Aren't all the current Congressional investigations a start to the process? Building momentum, public perception and possibly most important a supportive legal framework for opening all the cans of information?

The Benghazi hearings produced nothing but they certainly tainted HRC and wore away at her support. In today's instant gratification world isn't perception as important as facts to many??

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Fri May 17, 2019, 07:35 AM

67. The House Democrats need to do a thorough investigation to decide if they should impeach Trump.

 

This needs to be done now, Madame Speaker.

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Response to Vidal (Reply #67)

Fri May 17, 2019, 10:11 AM

70. They need to do a thorough investigation to decide if they should investigate further!

and a sternly worded letter never hurts.

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Response to Vidal (Original post)

Sat May 18, 2019, 04:47 PM

76. I hope Pelosi retires in the next couple of years..

Because I REALLY want to read whatever book I expect her to write about this period of history! (It would be a huge disservice if she doesn’t write one). I want to know what she was thinking, what she thought Trump and his administration would do and how she saw events unfolding. Hope she is keeping a record.

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