All those posting your belief there will be no justice...

obviously criminal and wrong things have happen in politics and justice never showed up.

Once a person who follows issues closely and cares, lives through a few of those times....they only have their experience of no justice to base their feelings on.

We simply do not know what we do not know and not one poster here can guarantee how this mess will turn out.

That’s pretty much an outcome you can predict.

understand the battle of which you speak? Twitter? FB?

I know it is hard, but perhaps those constantly posting "hopelessness" might consider this. I think if we reach inside ourselves we might find a way to act and speak such that those on the edge will not topple.

Most are posting in this manner to vent their frustration. We all understand that. But those doing so just simply because they wish to laud their "I TOLD YOU SO" over everyone here--(though few here were naive enough to believe anything re: Trump was a "done deal" ) need to rethink. I certainly don't want to be responsible for pushing anyone experiencing depression and helplessness beyond what they can live with. Surely they don't either.

The enemy wants us to feel depressed.

I’m with you ... not going to add to the complaining and not going to expend energy trying to talk people out of negativity.

I generally am negative, but I’ve learned from my friend that my negativity defeats our side.

are a few reasons I am suspending belief that anything meaningful will result from the current state of affairs.

When you are an eye witness to the stealing of an election by the Bush family and the SCOTUS and saw that justice didn't show up....why would you believe it now?

Arguably the impact of Vietnam, and JFK, and MLK, and RFK, and riots and Watergate, and on and on and on has even more impact for those growing up with it, but too young to understand anything but the fear engendered.

Again, I think given the rising suicide rates, we might consider for one moment what constant negative spewing does to those on the edge. If we give a damn, that is.

Nothing is won with hopelessness and no cause is won after "giving up".

Damned ridiculous to throw out such platitudes.

That phrase captured my imagination.

"The disease wants you to feel hopeless. That's how it can win. Don't let it win."

In this case, the disease is Trump.

I have been binge watching on Netflix and MHz to avoid watching the news. (BTW, Dead To Me on Netflix was great.)

It hurts so much to watch republicans circle the wagons around a corrupt and ignorant fool who everyone knows belongs in prison. Then to see bad pennies like Bolton and Barr show up again with their same evil and corrupt intentions is depressing.

Maybe the democrats have a game plan. I sure hope so.

you should try Rectify and Bloodline. Those should get you through a few more weeks and Rectify is one of the best, most satisfying and complete shows of all time. ...no hyperbole!

Loved Bloodline. I’ll take a look at Rectify.

Rec

the arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice.

“This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism.”
~ Martin Luther King Jr.

Which I think a lot of people are feeling that there isn't much progress being made...

n/t

The only way there will really be any justice is if WE THE PEOPLE demand it. We have to rise up in force and demand action. Shut down everything until something is done.

Unfortunately, more people are concerned with how Game Of Thrones will end, or seeing the new Avengers movie, than taking time out of their TV schedule to do what needs done.

That's just the way it is.

It's not about annoyance for many of us. This is life or death.

Yes, I believe the "arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice", as Dr. King said.

But,
In my lifetime? Maybe
Before I'm homeless and too sick to work? Maybe
Before the planet is inhabitable? Maybe
Before my trans niece is murdered in a hate crime? Maybe
Before my army nephew is killed in a war with Iran or Africa or some other unnecessary war? Maybe

It's too late for 3000+ human beings in Puerto Rico
It's too late for the migrant children who have died
It's too late for the 4 dead servicemen in trump's first botched military raid in Yemen

We'll never have a true body count of those who have died prematurely, directly or indirectly, because of this administration. Those people have lost it all. I don't know how to offer comfort to their loved ones. Justice won't right that wrong.

I understand why it's important that we not lose hope. I also REALLY appreciate the kindness and compassion in your post. I understand we can't get complacent, we can't stop fighting, or they win.

It's just so desperate for some of us who may not survive this.

And every time people repeat the reassuring phrase that "justice will prevail" or the "arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice", I wish they would scream for urgency. For some of us, it may be too late.

That is just 1700 more childen that they admit they have, and those detained immigrant children do not have anyone that they can turn to because no inspections of any kind are allowed, not even by legislators who are also either denied entry, or only allowed to talk to a few children while carefully suprervised. This is an an outrage, and every day that goes by that justice is denied is another day those children remaine caged with no one looking out for them. They are who I think about when I am told to be patient. Their pain and trauma and grief will not wait for an election next year. If their voices cannot be heard to demand justice, then I will be one small damn voice speaking for them, but when I push hard to impeach Trump and arrest Barr and get this shit moving, it is them I am also thinking of and speaking for.

...as their realism is to you?

...reflects reality. Pessimists worry about optimism leading to complacency; optimists worry about pessimism draining the energy needed to address the issues of concern. We have to keep our eyes open and do our best to continue moving toward solutions. That is what has always brought progress. And you cannot do that without some hope of your actions being effective. Otherwise, you'd do nothing at all--the exact fear you have about being optimistic.

In any case, would mutual compassion make anything worse? We're all doing our best here.

It's empirical.

Look around you. There is no divine justice. No heaven, no hell. There is no karma. There is no moral arc to history. Everything doesn't just turn out fine in the end. The only justice in the universe is the justice that we, as societies, make for ourselves.

It is important people understand what is at stake here.

I went so far as to mock someone's prediction of the Con winning, and betting $50 bucks against that outcome.

Now I just want to move to Canada, this doesn't feel like America anymore.

Trump did NOT win. He is an illegitimate resident in the Oval Office. Now we have to figure out how to deal with it legally, constitutionally, and effectively. And we have to figure out how to prevent future violations of our voting systems.

Ding ding we have a winner

Every day we fiddle makes justice harder to attain. Some day soon he’s gonna order his generals to do something really stupid, and I don’t know if any of them have the nerve to tell him to go fuck himself. As it stands right now, justice could take years and years to exact. Protections which required decades of blood, sweat, and tears to establish. across the federal government spectrum, have already been cast aside by the greedy bastard while fanatical judges are lined up around the block just waitin’ for their robes. Our resistance has never been equal to the crisis we face.

Anyone who knows anything about the law knows that the law doesn't exist for the sake of justice alone. And it doesn't work in practice to bring about justice. Although one hopes that is the result a majority of the time.

Law is a rule, statute or code that sets out what is and is not allowed. Then two sides show up in court, each with its own view of how that law was followed, or violated. Each side has evidence. The legal system strives to find which side has the most convincing evidence, and which side has evidence that tips the scales of justice, if only slightly (in a civil case), or beyond a reasonable doubt (in a criminal case).

There are so many judgments along the way, that the end result may be justice. Or it may not be. It also depends on one's view of justice. And, as we've seen with the Mueller Report, is starts with someone deciding that a guilty verdict is certain enough, and the evidence is strong enough, that it is worth even trying to bring the wrongdoer to justice in court. Mueller decided the evidence wasn't strong enough, for what HE could do.

So now it's up to the House. They need to decide if the evidence is strong enough, the votes sure enough, and the things that flow from those votes good enough, to impeach or file an indictment. It's not a sure thing, at this point.

So while everyone hopes that justice will prevail, realists know that it's not certain that it will. Whether justice prevails or not, though, life goes on, and we have high hopes to win the next election. For some, that will be justice. For others (like myself), that'd be a great thing, but not justice.

What it all comes down to is an opinion not an actual hard and fast rule.

He not only didn't tell congress or senate, he lied about it. Kissinger was his advisor.
Loose estimates suggest Kissinger was responsible for about 4m deaths worldwide.
George Bush Sr. met and arranged for US hostages to be held for longer than Iran had intended to, because republicans wanted Carter embarrassed before the upcoming election - also,to glorify Reagan when he came in to office. These agreements led to Iran-Contra, which were under Regans presidency.
George Bush Jr almost certainly came to power via a rigged election. He declared an illegal war on Iraq. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell and Bolton - among others, lied about WMDs they lied about Husseins funding and training of Al Quada. They killed and displaced millions, they opened Guantanamo to subvert legal requirements in the US. They used 'rendition' to deliver people to secret prisons around Eastern Europe. They reinstigated torture, they covered for Abu Grahib. They used banned weapons in Iraq including phosphorus and napalm.


So there are a dozen heads of state. With crimes that break the constitution, breach the Geneva convention, where are the penalties? How was justice served? Which of these people ever spent time in jail or paid a fine or was even fired?

Justice does not just fall out of the sky

The stakes could never be higher.

No, sadly justice doesn't alway prevail. The wheels of justice do, I understand, turn slowly. Let us hope that, this time, they do reach the proper conclusion. They did NOT with Dick Cheney and others. He remains unrepentant, his odious spawn, now speaking his exact language and lusting for power.

Ignoring the patronizing tone of this post, justice does not always prevail. That only happens in movies, as opposed to the countless examples in real life where justice did not prevail.

I take exception with the idea that "Trump's comeuppance is inevitable," as that is a purely fantastical way of thinking. Sorry to say that we are not in a cliché movie where the good guys always win, and there is absolutely no guarantee that everything is going to be okay. Anyone who believes otherwise is engaging in wishful thinking.

We are not moving towards "justice." In fact, we are moving in the opposite direction. Womens' rights are under attack, and fundamentalism is clawing its way back into politics.

Has been a little justice already.

Not all of the tRump organized crime gang will be brought to justice, nor will those who are brought in receive the full justice they might get.

"The moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends towards justice." -- MLK Jr

You're right, of course, and so many of us are simply worn down. And Mother Nature certainly isn't helping matters, and is instead contributing mightily to our feelings of hopelessness. I keep thinking that when trump is gone, things will finally look up.

One can only hope. There is nothing else left.

For starters, I think of all the innocent POC who were/are gunned down by police, or who died in jail cells, or who were lynched by white mobs.

Then there are the assassinations of JFK, MLK, jr, and RFK. Did justice prevail there? Or in Vietnam? Or in Iraq?

But as dismal as those realities are, one cannot surrender to it and give in to inaction.