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TheFarseer

(9,308 posts)
Fri May 17, 2019, 09:01 PM May 2019

Talked to a climate change denier and learned

One of the polar icecaps is shrinking but the other is growing.

The sun is starting to get more sun spot activity, so we might actually start to see global cooling.

The scientists are putting their thermometers by airports and and concrete so that’s why their temperature readings are going up.

How hot the Earth is depends on the Sun, there isn’t anything man can do about it.

And of course, climate scientists are being paid to say all this global warming stuff.

Anything I tried to say was not believed. Any suggestions what to do with such people?

47 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Talked to a climate change denier and learned (Original Post) TheFarseer May 2019 OP
Seeing as True Dough May 2019 #1
You never turn on your team TheFarseer May 2019 #17
The Mets wouldn't agree! True Dough May 2019 #19
recommended to publicize LOL! This GRAPHIC youtube shows reality... real Cannabis calm May 2019 #32
Just this hurple May 2019 #2
Which one is growing? ornotna May 2019 #3
The one between his ears! ProudLib72 May 2019 #7
A vast lifeless wasteland. ornotna May 2019 #9
Antarctic sea ice is actually increasing at an accelerating rate Azathoth May 2019 #23
Not any more. muriel_volestrangler May 2019 #33
Beat me to it... jpak May 2019 #41
Pretty severe crash. Trend line still seems to be increasing though nt Azathoth May 2019 #43
Sea ice isn't the same as the land-based glaciers, however NickB79 May 2019 #46
He wasn't sure TheFarseer May 2019 #44
Ask his sources, then walk away shaking your head that Hassler May 2019 #4
Since you ask.. Cary May 2019 #5
The Climate Crisis is About Climate Change, Not Necessarily Warming dlk May 2019 #6
It's like talking to a flat Earther or creationist. Flaleftist May 2019 #8
That's what crossed my mind when I read it too. BigmanPigman May 2019 #12
There's nothing you can do Downtown Hound May 2019 #10
Guy came in my driveway to ask about bees last year... jcgoldie May 2019 #11
I'm hearing that many farmers and fisherfolk are beginning to accept climate change as real. yardwork May 2019 #37
I'm a farmer also and I know a lot of farmers who... jcgoldie May 2019 #39
The propaganda is strong. It's our biggest problem. yardwork May 2019 #45
I usually talk about basic physics, and shift the burden back to them. marylandblue May 2019 #13
I guess, like "Civics", they no longer teach what used to be Golden Raisin May 2019 #14
Read this bdamomma May 2019 #15
Politely let them know that they are unqualified to discuss this matter with you. nt Progressive Jones May 2019 #16
Dumbassery can be fatal. You may want to get shots after talking to that clown. Blue_true May 2019 #18
Talk to some religious folks and they'll tell you with a shrug that it's just End Times CousinIT May 2019 #20
Pollution, contamination, extinction. greyl May 2019 #21
Climate change denial has reached religious levels on the right Azathoth May 2019 #22
Bingo! Duppers May 2019 #40
Come to think of it, the appeal to humility seems to be a Catholic line Azathoth May 2019 #42
It isn't global warming... it's global climate change KentuckyWoman May 2019 #24
Yes. smirkymonkey May 2019 #25
There will be at one point they will have to agree. That will be mass migrations rusty quoin May 2019 #26
My best argument is in the 90s there was an internal GOP memo said to find scientists sympathetic to JonLP24 May 2019 #27
Ask him this: if he was wrong, would he want to know, or if not, mahina May 2019 #28
They're just repeating what the propaganda apparatus is telling them. Crunchy Frog May 2019 #29
When you debate with stupid people lunatica May 2019 #30
Here's an excellent resource... SeattleVet May 2019 #31
I usually try to steer the "discussion" into a conversation about the "fact" that the retread May 2019 #34
I refuse to discuss. When someone comes out as a denier, I stay friendly but I distance myself Buckeyeblue May 2019 #35
I like this cartoon: robbob May 2019 #36
Ignore them...along with flat earthers. Facts don't *matter* to them. nt Baltimike May 2019 #38
Facts don't change minds Mrs. Ted Nancy May 2019 #47

True Dough

(17,090 posts)
1. Seeing as
Fri May 17, 2019, 09:04 PM
May 2019

this thread was started by someone who believes in the Kansas City Royals, I don't know if there's much high ground for you.

real Cannabis calm

(1,124 posts)
32. recommended to publicize LOL! This GRAPHIC youtube shows reality...
Sat May 18, 2019, 04:21 AM
May 2019

but Climate Change, along with rapid extinction of species, is sadly true.

Azathoth

(4,603 posts)
23. Antarctic sea ice is actually increasing at an accelerating rate
Sat May 18, 2019, 01:01 AM
May 2019

There's debate over the exact reasons why, but none of the proposed explanations is "global warming isn't real."

NickB79

(19,109 posts)
46. Sea ice isn't the same as the land-based glaciers, however
Sat May 18, 2019, 06:31 PM
May 2019

Every spring, that sea ice completely melts, no matter how much it grows over winter. And the land-based glaciers, which are supposed to be permanent, are losing ice rapidly.

In fact, all that fresh water coming off the continental glaciers, with it's higher freezing point than salt water, help explains why the sea ice can grow in size.

Hassler

(3,321 posts)
4. Ask his sources, then walk away shaking your head that
Fri May 17, 2019, 09:08 PM
May 2019

There are morons who believe whatever El Limpo, Sean Manatee and FIX tell them.

Flaleftist

(3,473 posts)
8. It's like talking to a flat Earther or creationist.
Fri May 17, 2019, 09:14 PM
May 2019

They will not accept the facts that prove them wrong.

BigmanPigman

(51,430 posts)
12. That's what crossed my mind when I read it too.
Fri May 17, 2019, 09:23 PM
May 2019

I met one of "them" and he seemed like a normal, rational person until he got on this subject and he was serious. I went home and Googled "flat Earthers" and discovered there were more like him...now that's scary.

Downtown Hound

(12,618 posts)
10. There's nothing you can do
Fri May 17, 2019, 09:18 PM
May 2019

Wasted energy on your part to try. I long ago stopped trying to reason with them. They don't live in a world governed by reason. I just tell them they're brainwashed cultists and move on. There's plenty of others out there that you can reach.

jcgoldie

(11,582 posts)
11. Guy came in my driveway to ask about bees last year...
Fri May 17, 2019, 09:22 PM
May 2019

... Saw my hives from the road. Had a ton of great questions he wants to get some hives. I love talking about bees and was making a new friend from just down the road. Until it came to the part where I tell him about one of the 2 most important things about keeping honeybees alive in the 21st century is feeding sugar throughout the 2nd half of the winter. All the warm January and February days we get in the Midwest causes the bees to expect flowers soon and start to lay eggs... blow through their winter stores as the hive grows exponentially a month too soon and starves on the cusp of spring. You lose a lot of hives if you don't feed and so everyone does. It's a very tangible effect of global warming... that's when the conversation went downhill very fast with my new "friend"... so promising and it ended with some choice words and he isn't welcome back here. The huge divide in our country strikes at unexpected times...

yardwork

(61,408 posts)
37. I'm hearing that many farmers and fisherfolk are beginning to accept climate change as real.
Sat May 18, 2019, 09:43 AM
May 2019

Based on their personal observations - like the beekeeper's experience that you yourself have observed - many people who otherwise had been brainwashed into thinking that climate change is a lie are now convinced that it's true.

The guy you talked with isn't a beekeeper, so he hasn't personally observed the changes you and other beekeepers see.

jcgoldie

(11,582 posts)
39. I'm a farmer also and I know a lot of farmers who...
Sat May 18, 2019, 10:39 AM
May 2019

...begrudgingly admit climate change is real based on their own changing experiences just as you say. The problem is most of them fear and hate all the Mexican boogeymen at the border that they learn about on fox news and African Americans in the inner city that they see on the nightly local tabloid news worse than they care about their fields shriveling up due to drought or under a foot of water half the summer...

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
13. I usually talk about basic physics, and shift the burden back to them.
Fri May 17, 2019, 09:30 PM
May 2019

It's all based on the Theory of Infrared Spectroscopy with goes back to the mid 19th Century. CO2 absorbs infrared radiation causing it to heat up. Your microwave works the same way, the water molecules in the food absorb radiation and there isn't any way for it not to happen. If they don't believe this, then evil scientists have tricked them into eating cold pizza for decades.

So now ask, if more CO2 MUST cause heating, then how do they explain what causes the earth to cool back down in the exact amount that physics says it must heat up? Most don't have an answer for this.

There is actually is a response for this (and a counter response), but if they know it, you are dealing with someone smarter than the average climate change denier.

bdamomma

(63,650 posts)
15. Read this
Fri May 17, 2019, 09:45 PM
May 2019
https://www.nationofchange.org/2019/05/17/thinned-by-extraordinary-amounts-glaciers-in-antarctica-melting-at-accelerating-rates/



This should be discussed instead of these filthy repig men talking about women's choice. Fuck these repigs. Bringing up women again, if not gays, they can't applaud the NRA the NRA is imploding.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
18. Dumbassery can be fatal. You may want to get shots after talking to that clown.
Fri May 17, 2019, 10:20 PM
May 2019

At least I hope you took a good shower with turbo-potash soap.

CousinIT

(9,151 posts)
20. Talk to some religious folks and they'll tell you with a shrug that it's just End Times
Fri May 17, 2019, 11:52 PM
May 2019

They're very "la-de-da" about it. They say nothing can be done. It's "God's will" and was "written in the Bible"

greyl

(22,990 posts)
21. Pollution, contamination, extinction.
Sat May 18, 2019, 12:02 AM
May 2019

Sounds like your foe was repeating dumb memes about global warming only, so change the subject to any number of other biosphere responsible issues. It's more difficult to laugh-off or dismiss pollution and contamination.

Azathoth

(4,603 posts)
22. Climate change denial has reached religious levels on the right
Sat May 18, 2019, 12:56 AM
May 2019

It's like trying to argue evolution eith a fundamentalist. They're absolutely unreachable. They actually take satisfaction in being able to spit on the eggheads.

Duppers

(28,094 posts)
40. Bingo!
Sat May 18, 2019, 11:36 AM
May 2019

They're the same. I'm surrounded by them. Most all my neighbors are Catholics who
dispute climate change. They're unreachable, all vote Republican. Had one tell me, "Well, there's somethings we can control and some we can't (it's in god's hands)." I swear!

And some of us know DUers here who do not think climate change is as urgent and dire as it really is. It's a most depressing subject.

Azathoth

(4,603 posts)
42. Come to think of it, the appeal to humility seems to be a Catholic line
Sat May 18, 2019, 12:27 PM
May 2019

Most deniers tend to go with the "liberal conspiracy and sunspots" routine, but every now and then I've had someone lecture me about the "arrogance" of believing humans could change something as vast as climate... and it's always been a Catholic who took that line. It's kind of fascinating in a tragic way.

KentuckyWoman

(6,666 posts)
24. It isn't global warming... it's global climate change
Sat May 18, 2019, 01:17 AM
May 2019

And it doesn't matter if mankind caused it or is only accelerating it.

the earth will survive in some fashion. Mankind seems fairly determined to extinct ourselves and likely eventually will.

 

rusty quoin

(6,133 posts)
26. There will be at one point they will have to agree. That will be mass migrations
Sat May 18, 2019, 02:27 AM
May 2019

with the rich on space ships leaving the earth with a space force protecting them from space piracy.

The Uber rich will survive and will mate and become another species I call Homo Asshole.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
27. My best argument is in the 90s there was an internal GOP memo said to find scientists sympathetic to
Sat May 18, 2019, 02:35 AM
May 2019

their POV. The oil & gas industry is the #1 cause and they give a lot in campaign contributions to the GOP where they spread climate change denial. Also because we are so partisan whenever the Democrat has a reality based position it is easier for them to take the contrary point of view.

mahina

(17,502 posts)
28. Ask him this: if he was wrong, would he want to know, or if not,
Sat May 18, 2019, 02:46 AM
May 2019

Why doesn’t he want to know?

Give him objective scientific sources. They get paid to gather and analyze information, not skew it.

Give him the 1950’s Exxon report showing projected CO2 matching current 415 ppm.

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/bo3qo3/we_dont_know_a_planet_like_this_co2_levels_hit/

Give him a way to test his truth, like a scientist.


Crunchy Frog

(26,548 posts)
29. They're just repeating what the propaganda apparatus is telling them.
Sat May 18, 2019, 02:48 AM
May 2019

With the RW monopoly on talk radio, I'm not sure that there is anything effective that you could say to get through to them, unfortunately.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
30. When you debate with stupid people
Sat May 18, 2019, 02:50 AM
May 2019

they pull you down to their level and end up winning the argument.

Just be glad he didn’t get you to believe too.

SeattleVet

(5,468 posts)
31. Here's an excellent resource...
Sat May 18, 2019, 03:17 AM
May 2019

but I don't know how much it will do to change the minds of the proudly, terminally ignorant.

https://skepticalscience.com

Most of their explanations have 2 or 3 levels of detail, from the most basic through to a decent level of scientific literacy.

Buckeyeblue

(5,491 posts)
35. I refuse to discuss. When someone comes out as a denier, I stay friendly but I distance myself
Sat May 18, 2019, 08:50 AM
May 2019

I don't have time for those types of people cluttering my life. Unless they are family, then I will tolerate them for family functions but I will not discuss any of this stuff. I'm really good at changing the subject.

Mrs. Ted Nancy

(462 posts)
47. Facts don't change minds
Sat May 18, 2019, 07:36 PM
May 2019

The vaunted human capacity for reason may have more to do with winning arguments than with thinking straight.

Here's a good article from the New Yorker:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds?utm_source=pocket-newtab

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