My Theory With Nancy, the Dems & Impeachment......

[global1]

Nancy and the Dems know that when 'impeachment' gets to the Senate that they won't have the votes to see it through ridding us of Trump. Mitch and the Repugs will - 'circle the wagons' for Trump and give Trump the ability to say that he was exonerated in the Senate. (That's what he is counting on.)

My theory is that Nancy and the Dem's want to build up as solid of a case of obstruction and criminality against Trump - that even the Repugs can't deny and talk their way out of. If they try and talk their way around - Nancy and the Dem's will unload on the Repugs and make them very uncomfortable to stick behind Trump - because the evidence would be so overwhelming.

At best - the Dem's will make such an issue of the Repugs protecting Trump - that they'll suffer at the ballot box in 2020.

So when it comes to the 'impeachment' vote in the Senate - the Repugs will have to go along with voting for 'impeachment' or it will be very evident that the Repugs are hypocrites and aiding and abetting Trump's crimes.

Any thoughts on this theory?

[seshers]

1. I agree...

and I like it.

[DownriverDem]

32. I agree too and I

wish folks who want it now, would stop their attacks and yapping at Pelosi and the Dems. If you go the impeachment route too soon without the country's support, trump wins.

[lagomorph777]

41. I disagree. I think she'll ramp hearings to a crescendo, just before the election.

Let Turtle block an impeachment vote AFTER he's lost the Senate.

[real Cannabis calm]

57. In a sense, you are correct. The strategy is long-term; but I agree with the O.P. too

[zentrum]

67. Agreed.

[StarfishSaver]

2. Agree

[Ninga]

3. I agree. Nancy tore him a new one today. She knows he will continue to escalate his

outrageous behaviors because he is mentally ill and can't help himself. Essentially, he will self-impeach.

Just think about how bad it's going to get before the coward GOP starts to crack.

[a kennedy]

13. I love her for this......she is the expert in this game and he just can not deal with it.......

and believe me it is a game to him.....a game that he can not win with Nancy as his opponent. Did you hear Howard Stern on tRump on Stephen Colbert show?? Howard Stern said tRump didn’t REALLY want to be President he just wanted NBC to give him a raise for the Apprentice tv show......and it got out of hand, and he’s now the gawd damn President. 🤬 🤬 🤬

[tymorial]

21. I agree with Howard. Trump always ran to increase his profile.

Maybe this time was different and maybe he was utilized by the Russians to do stabilize the country. I honestly do not know but we are left with a mess and he is ultimately to blame

[DownriverDem]

33. Wouldn't it be great

if those attacking Pelosi would wake up? She knows what she is doing.

[Thekaspervote]

53. Yes!! We need.. must support our great dem leaders...especially madam speaker

[watoos]

78. I supported Pelosi for Speaker,

I support her now, I disagree with her stay the course plan. No more. I will no longer argue for impeach now because it can be looked upon as bashing Democrats. I will never post another we need to impeach now post. I will get on board with the hopes that the present stay the course policy, the Pelosi knows what she is doing is the way to go. I hope that my new attitude keeps me out of trouble here. I really don't want to get banned.

Let's face it, the official Democratic policy is stay the course, we aren't there yet to impeach, any argument against that policy can be looked upon as bashing Democrats. You have the ball, make the shot, if you need me I will be there waiting on the bench.

[Maine-i-acs]

4. I was thinking the same. The longer it drags on, the more get dragged down with him.

The R's will have to chain themselves to him or denounce him.
Each day that proportion will shift.

The more data comes out, the more comprehensive a case can be made, continues the death by 1,000 cuts.
StumpyHumperChumpTrump wants it to stop now but he can't make it stop now.
And Nancy doesn't want it to stop now.

Yes, we could impeach today.
But there are many more potentially impeachable offenses coming out, the more that they uncover.
So the case becomes more airtight and the only ones remaining behind him are:

The complicit and
The clueless

[lagomorph777]

42. +1. No hurry to send it over to the Senate. We can have 15 months of hearings.

That will show voters, over and over, how dangerous Trump is. And Trump, over and over, will go crazy on TV.

He's going to help Nancy destroy the Reputin Party.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

69. "The complicit and the clueless"

I really like that! Mind if I borrow it?

[Maine-i-acs]

74. Have at it

spread the word far and wide
dissent is patriotism!

[winetourdriver01]

5. yes

I do agree. His incompetence/guilt needs to become so glaringly obvious that it's undeniable to all but the most ardent Fascist. He'll get there, and it won't take long.

[watoos]

79. I live among Trumpers in central Pa.

they will never ever desert him.

[Shanti Mama]

6. Good analysis.

I agree and have long trusted our Dem leaders to do the right thing on this.
The evidence must so overwhelming and so disgusting that protecting him is worse than not.

[Basic LA]

7. I agree.

It's not the Impeachment Hearings in the House that's the worry, it's the Acquittal Hearings in the Senate. In that phase, for the crucial months leading up to election, Mitch & Lindsey will conduct a Pity Party for Trump. They'll drag Hillary & maybe even Obama in to rail at their evil plan to frame the "innocent" Strawberry Blond in the White House. Finally, they'll unanimously exonerate Trump of all charges just in time for election.
Or it could blow up in their Senatorial faces. Who knows? That's why House dems need to have their pencils sharpened for what they're setting in motion.

[LiberalFighter]

15. It won't be that easy for the Republicans.

The House members will be the prosecutors. The Senate are nothing more than just the jurors.

[watoos]

80. Chief justice Roberts runs the hearing.

[Nasruddin]

23. Conviction is hard

They don't have to have a pity party for Mr Trump. I would bet they can expedite the process and vote against
conviction and be done in a few hours. This is what was attempted by the Democrats in the Clinton case.

[Trueblue Texan]

65. Or...

...we may see resignations in the Senate between now and the 2020 election. As the facts spill out slowly, we may get more and more of what Trump fears most.

[BigmanPigman]

8. That seems to be the plan, for now anyway.

[corbettkroehler]

9. It Became Clear This Week

You're right but I didn't see it until now. The way Trump has escalated during the last 48 hours, upon losing a PAIR of federal rulings and placing a portion of his political fate in the hands of Merrick Garland has forced his hand.

On this, I'll trust Chuck and Nancy.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

10. It's the only way to make impeachment. Trump is not worth handing an acquittal to him.

I've been writing that the Republicon Senators have to be shamed into it, for two years (no shade on OP).

[lagomorph777]

43. Don't even give 'em a chance to acquit. Destroy Trump in House hearings for 15 months.

Fuck the Reputins in the Senate. They'll be impotent to stop this.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

45. Yup. Full steam ahead step by step on House hearings. . . . nt

[sop]

11. That's how I see it

Let the Republicans continue to defend Trump as more and more dirt comes out. In the end, they'll suffer the voters' wrath.

[wryter2000]

12. Agreed to a certain extent

I don't think the R's will ever budge, but if Nancy and the Dems reveal all of Trump's crimes, the R's will pay a price for supporting him. I don't know that will win them the Senate, though.

My own theory is more that impeachment will need to be timed better for the election. We want broadcast, publicized hearings in 2020, not 2019. That's not just so it'll be extremely unfortunate timing for Trump, even though it will be. By then, tons of dirt will have come out. Probably some things we don't even know about now. Plus, he'll continue to make an ass of himself for another twelve months. The case will be so solid, the R's will definitely pay a price, as will Trump.

Our case isn't solid enough for impeachment yet. Or at least, it isn't as solid as it's going to become. We've only scratched the surface so far.

[Nasruddin]

25. agreed

I think this is what they are going with. I don't know if this can be sustained thru 2020 but ... what else is the congress going to do? Mr Trump isn't going to sign any Democratic congress legislation, he as much as said so yesterday.

This is going to be settled at the ballot box, not in congress. But lots of investigations and tantrums are the best we can hope for.

[DownriverDem]

34. My theory is

that you have to have the country with you or else trump wins. The investigations going on now are going to bring us some of those subpoenaed documents. As more comes out, more folks will see exactly what the rest of us know.

[lastlib]

60. Just as the R's weaponized Benghazi----

We can weaponize all of his crimes--And there's a helluva lot more ammo for us to work with than the R's ever could have gotten (without making sh*t up, at which they excelled). If we spend most of 2020 airing out his dirty laundry, he might get votes from himself and Ivanka, and Individual 1 Jr. but no more (not even Melania!)

[LiberalFighter]

14. Agreed!

Even though the Senate is controlled by the Republicans they will be put in a bind.

The House can do their investigation and with the right PR build the case to vote for impeachment and send it to the Senate. It is what they do in the House that will determine whether the Senators will vote to remove.

Once the House votes to impeach they send it to the Senate but the House is not done. They are the prosecutors in the case. The Senate only votes for or against removal. They are the jury.

The key in my opinion is if the House Democrats build their case properly and then make their case as prosecutors it puts Senate Republicans in a bind because their vote will be on the record. Can they afford to vote no when there is a strong case? This might also be the time to push calls to them.

[ooky]

16. I agree building a solid case of obstruction and criminality has been her plan

but with the intention of drafting the articles of impeachment and having the vote once she believes the case for impeachment is solid enough to withstand the expected backlash at the ballot box. And, I think her plan has been that, at that point in the investigation, to carry through with the impeachment vote without regard to what the Senate will do (and in fact expecting the Senate not to convict).

[yaesu]

17. lets let them do their thing, but, lets also keep the pressure on. nt

[dobleremolque]

18. Spot on theory, but

when did hypocrisy ever bother a Republican?

[pansypoo53219]

19. need more GOP to peal off, even tho there is ample evidence. keep digging.

[cally]

20. Agree and Trump can't say Senate exonerated him

Going into next election. Instead there will be a steady drip of evidence during the election cycle and the Repubs will be seen as putting party over country. That’s what I think the strategy is. The difficult part is to still keep our base and turning out at the polls. I think it’s a good strategy since it’s unlikely Senate will impeach. we need to get rid of Trump in the elections and maybe take the Senate also. Then we can work to build a better country.

[world wide wally]

22. In the meantime, Dems have to keep pushing how the GOP and Trump are attached at the hip

[40RatRod]

24. I concur! About time...

...we are starting to agree here with the correct path forward!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. It's beginning to look a lot like Watergate.

The first hearings in the summer of 1973 were not impeachment hearings as such; they were set up to investigate the break-in, who was behind it and where the money for it came from. The information those hearings revealed, especially the existence of the secret tapes, set the stage for impeachment hearings in 1974. In the meantime, especially after the Saturday Night Massacre, Nixon's approval ratings rapidly collapsed, making it much more likely that the GOPers wouldn't oppose impeachment.

This looks to be following the same course.

[Lifelong Protester]

27. Go,Nancy! I agree

with your explanation.

[Generic Brad]

28. Soon they will be asking why Republicans are helping him cover up crimes

Hell, i've been asking that for over two years now.

[Kurt V.]

29. There won't be impeachment. pelosi has been pretty consistent here. my theory is the constitutional

Oversight will continue. Mostly through courts with follow thru by house committee. Enough dirt, done in public view, will weigh down the opposition party come election day, we take back the senate. Argument can be made that holding the house and taking the senate is even more important than the presidency (which will surely be influenced by outside forces) . i think this is pelosi's plan. then impeachment is almost guaranteed if trump wins or we have a dem president after the election anyway. win win.

[ProudLib72]

47. Agreed. The focus should be on holding the House and taking the Senate

In fact, I will go far as to say that I am much more concerned with taking the Senate than with impeachment. Of course, if this is truly the plan, I think that Pelosi will need to reveal her hand. I really don't think that it will do our party any good if, after 15 months of investigations turning up all sorts of horrible facts, we refuse to start impeachment.

[Raven123]

30. I have had the same thought

I also think that she is correct in saying there is more to investigate. Mueller didn’t/couldn’t follow the money like Congress can. Media speculates about money laundering. Some speculate about emoluments violations. I’m not into speculating, but his refusal to put assets in a blind trust, refusal to release the long-promised tax returns, and refusal to admit to Russian interference in the election simply invites investigation. No ignore that would be malpractice.

We need to know why Trump ( and the GOP ) won’t protect the integrity of the electoral process, and focusing on impeachment now won’t necessarily do that

[RVN VET71]

31. Agree whole heartedly

And I think all our Reps and Senators agree. Where they differ is in the timing. Nancy wants to let Trump make a case that even a farmer who's lost everything because of the tariffs who still says he loves the guy -- yea, even that farmer will turn away from the son of a bee. She wants to make absolutely sure that, once the "I" line is crossed, any Republican who sticks to Trump will be called out on it by his/her own constituents as a corrupt toady.

Personally, I think we're there already. But I can wait a while longer while Nancy ensures -- to her satisfaction -- that all Dems support the move, that all Dems (you listening Manchin?) are willing to stand together to condemn Trump and to publicly challenge any Republican who insists on standing by their lying, cheating, treasonous, sociopathic, mentally unstable, tiny handed man.

[Pluvious]

38. Exactly !! We've not even seen his taxes yet, nor...

... The dump from the Russian Laundromat known as Deutsche Bank yet.

Nor had Mueller's testimony yet.

Nor learned what the secretive Grand Jury has been pursuing.

Etc

[machoneman]

35. I also agree but they won't EVER vote for Trump's impeachment. Not now, not ever!

They'd prefer to go down with the ship in 2020. Why you ask?

It's because they know that if even by the slightest of chances Trump survives an impeachment vote before 2020, they also believe he just might eke out a 2nd term.

If he loses either the vote or the election, there isn't a snowball's chance in Hell that another Republiscum will be elected president for the next 3-4 cycles, that's 12-16 YEARS out of presidential power and perhaps even 20-24 years, we hope. And the why is that almost all their rotten policies hurt the fastest growing groups of actual voters (young, minority, women) while at the same time the Right's most ardent voters, older folks already, die off in the millions.

[CaptainTruth]

36. Here's a relevant thread on the topic.

Points out how if the Dems keep doing what they're doing it puts more pressure on Repubs in Congress to step away from Trump.

[link:https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1130599849995325440.html|

[Pluvious]

37. In poker, we call this...

"Walking the dog."

When you flop the nuts, and your opponent bets into you, you don't immediately shove all-in.

[lagomorph777]

44. What?

I can't find that language on Google translate.

[Pluvious]

46. rotfl

Trust me, it's best you never loose enuf money to know what that all means

[MadMike47]

39. Never give it to the Senate

I agree that the House should initiate an impeachment inquiry. But they should allow their investigations to drag on right up to the election without ever bringing charges because they should never turn the process over to the Republican-controlled Senate. Never trust Mitch McConnell to allow fifteen senators to vote Trump out of office. It'll never happen. Keep the investigations going. Bring in the witnesses and show them every night on the national news, sweating it out in the witness chair. But even if public sentiment gets so strong that people are clamoring for charges to be brought, the Dem's would make a terrible mistake turning the process over to the Turtle Man.

[sandensea]

49. +1

You've got an excellent sense of tactics, Mike.

And Welcome to DU! Hope you find the banter as interesting - and informative - as I do.

[watoos]

81. It wouldn't be turned over to Turtle man,

Chief Justice Roberts would run the impeachment hearing.

[cab67]

40. Not sure.

This is similar to my thinking in 2017 - that Trump would become such a liability on the Republican brand that congressional Republicans would be more than willing to give him the heave-ho, if only to maintain their majority in the House. Trump did, indeed, become a liability on the Republican brand (though see below) - but the only congressional Republicans willing to say so were those not running for re-election. Their unwillingness to lose face overrode their interest in keeping both houses of Congress.

Republicans have really dug themselves into a big hole. The real liability isn't the Orange One himself - it's his base. It's just the right size to box candidates into something approximating a no-win situation. Republicans can't survive a primary without the base - it's large enough to dominate party dynamics at that stage. But it's becoming much harder to win general elections with the base - it's too small to balance out everyone else.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

48. PLEASE stop fretting about what the repubs may or may not do - thats like the very definition of

co-dependency.

Just focus on what the RIGHT THING TO DO IS..... and then let's do it.

We all know that impeachment is not necessarily removal. Clinton was impeached but not removed. You don't think Clinton's impeachment wasn't a hugely historic, damaging, and consequential act - even though it didn't lead to removal?????

We need to go on record as doing what we need to do. AND NOT WIMPING OUT! He will be harmed, weakened going into the election and Dems will appear like as if they actually have spines.

Your theory is FLAWED. Even with impeccable, solid evidence the senate repubs are STILL NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR REMOVAL.

Stop dithering. Lets get on with it.

[Skittles]

51. I agree

why even have an impeachment process if it cannot be used? Trump proves EVERY DAY why he should be impeached. START THE PROCESS and let them American people see what repukes are covering up and excusing.

[Crunchy Frog]

63. Gotta keep that powder dry. n/t

[MasonDreams]

50. Yes, Nixon resigned ONLY after counting the Senate votes.

And knowing he would be removed.

[Meowmee]

52. I doubt the r will vote for impeachment

No matter what comes out. They are crazier each day. They are a bunch of crooks and traitors as well. He could win again with help from putin and gop cheating. And then what? Who and what is going to protect us from what is happening daily. At some point someone has to respond to this as the emergency that it is.

[empedocles]

54. Nice to read a reasonable thread on this subject

[NoMoreRepugs]

55. Years of nonsensical Benghazi BULLSHIT wore away at

the public's perception of Hillary, Speaker Pelosi has the same strategy IMO. Bury the Repugs under a veritable mountain of facts and truths.

[gulliver]

56. Yep, Trump gets impeached or the Republican Party goes down in 2020 defending the indefensible.

Case open.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

72. What? Thats not logical. Substitute "and" for "or."

[cilla4progress]

58. Agree!

Excellent summation!

I think the majority of Dems now believes we need to get on the impeachment train. Clarity is now happening, along with momentum.

It's about timing and pacing. Case must be rock solid. trump is a pro at using the victim dynamic to his advantage. We have to take that away from him with a deliberate and continual demonstration of the evidence against him. If it takes us right into 2020.

[Antifa Tim]

59. Impeachment equals Exoneration!

Until we gain a majority in the Senate we cannot even consider impeachment. Should we have allowed Charles Manson to be judged by the Manson family? Same thing! We must ride Trump like a crippled pony and have him ready to collapse in a pool of his own feces on election day 2020!

[PatrickforO]

61. No it's not. What kind of analogy is that?

As I've pointed out numerous times, beginning impeachment hearings, televised ones, will serve the purpose of educating more Americans than know now on the true extent of Trump's malfeasance. His crimes.

The reason I'm not fond of your analogy is this: Every US Representative and Senator has sworn an oath to uphold the constitution and to preserve and defend the republic. Impeachment and trial in the Senate is by 'oath and affirmation,' which means that it transcends party, at least in theory. What this means is that anyone in the House and the Senate who has a shred of decency, or perhaps integrity, is morally and ethically obligated to move forward if there looks to be evidence of 'high crimes and misdemeanors.'

There is. And they are in fact obligated. Pelosi is playing it 'cool,' but in my mind impeachment hearings will be opened. Soon. Not now, but soon.

And do remember your history, Tim. The televised Watergate hearings educated the American public then and forced Nixon's resignation. Now, the jaws are closing on Trump because the NY legislature just passed a bill that will make it more difficult for a presidential pardon to stick.

To my mind, when Trump is finally dragged from the White House by US Marshals to be indicted and tried, to be charged in both criminal and civil court, to have his wealth erased, his property taken and finally to be imprisoned to live the rest of his life in a cage, those in power will be compelled to make some sea changes in terms of restoring the Constitutional powers the executive branch has taken from the Congress over decades - war powers for instance.

With any luck at all we will end up losing the American Empire and keeping the American Republic, which would be a good thing.

[pandr32]

66. That is an excellent response.

[Crunchy Frog]

62. I've been seeing that theory, or something close to it, multiple times per day, every day,

for the past several weeks here.

[watoos]

82. Everything is going according to plan, have faith in Pelosi.

[hay rick]

64. Impeachment will occur (or not) in the court of public opinion.

It is clear that there is not a single Republican senator willing to put principle and country before party. Those who would even consider listening to their conscience have been intimidated into submission.

[cstanleytech]

68. They could also be looking to tie Trumps obstruction like an anchor around the necks of vulnerable

Repugnants that are running in the 2020 election that have enabled him and his actions either by stating support for him or remaining silent and letting him do what he has done.

[orangecrush]

70. I see a problem with this.

If Trump continues on his present course with Barr, it won't be long before he starts jailing his political opponents.

Then there is no more "long game".

Don't think it will happen?

I hope you're right.

[watoos]

83. Yes yes,

except it takes more than a majority, it takes 2/3 majority.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

71. Your theory is flawed - based on false premise. There is no "solid case that repubs cant deny"

Of course they'll deny it! It can be the most solid, airtight case ever and they'll still deny it.

They regularly deny actual court judgements that they don't like - call the judges "activist Obama appointees" and such.

Do you really think there is going to be some findings presented by the Dem controlled house that will magically get the cultists to see the error of their ways?

Since that wont ever happen, and since the Cult 45 is blocking all other avenues of inquiry.... we need to go ahead and do what we can - impeachment. Which btw is not necessarily removal.

[global1]

73. I See What Your Saying But....

I believe if in the course of showing just how criminal and obstructing Trump is - we get the sentiment of the American People behind us - that the Repugs - realizing that if they don't act - that their Party will die - that we will get enough Repugs behind a movement to impeach Trump in the Senate.

It will take the American People to get behind impeaching Trump. I know currently that the polls show that a lot of American's are not for impeachment. However, if we can get those poll numbers to the point where the majority of the American People favor impeachment - I don't think that the Repugs can look the other way and continue to circle the wagons around Trump.

[watoos]

84. Yes yes,

we should put our trust in polls. Everything is going according to plan, keep the faith.

[bucolic_frolic]

85. Election '20 - Impeachment '21

The whole idea is to remove him from office.

Don't waste an opportunity. Make both your swings count to the max. and don't waste two chances with one swing.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

86. Why exactly is this post given such prominence on DU main page for days on end? Poster doesnt

seem to realize that "impeachment" IS the fact finding and drawing up of charges by the House.... and stonewalling other avenues of investigation is as good an impeachable offense as any.

The senate votes to remove.... or not. Its really confusing and not really accurate when yall use "impeachment" and removal interchangeably (not only you OP but many others).

[Bayard]

87. It is painfully obvious

Rethugs do not care what anyone else thinks now, except tRump.