General Discussion
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(81,265 posts)the whole idea of empathy.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)The Catholic Church has poisoned this country with its focus on abortion over all else, including women, and making sure little kids have healthcare.
Texin
(2,596 posts)They've used religion and this specific issue to do that, as well as other hot button issues, such as race and gender identification, and (white) male patriarchy. It's their "Southern Strategy" writ large.
Ohiogal
(31,998 posts)So f-ing true.
Nasruddin
(754 posts)We had this whole discussion 50 years ago.
Some people, and some cultures, seem incapable of learning.
Some people, and some cultures, seem incapable of learning at all until they have personal, direct, physical experience of something. They cannot learn from being told, they cannot learn by observation, and they cannot imagine themselves in the position of somebody else (ie empathize). Their minds are closed until the frying pan clouts them in the head.
uriel1972
(4,261 posts)there are many hit on the head that still don't have empathy for other people.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,001 posts)maddiemom
(5,106 posts)to terminate her pregnancy? That was the story at the time, but never mentioned now, probably in deference to the daughter in question, who seems to be a bright, worthwhile young lady.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,188 posts)"What are we going to do about this?"
Sounds like he would have welcomed an abortion.
Delmette2.0
(4,165 posts)Our new neighbor was pregnant and for some reason i must have asked when will the baby arrive. My Mother told me the baby had died. But she was still pregnant! Mom said there was nothing the doctors could do and she would deliver the dead baby later. The woman must have been 7-8 months along and she just had to wait it out.
Year's later I asked Mom what happened to the neighbor. She didn't know, they just moved out.
The fact that the baby died in utero was sad, but it's that she had to carry it for gawd knows how long is imbedded in my memory. If that memory can stay with a child for 60+ years, I can't imagine how the parents got through the contiuning grief and and beyond.
But it's what gawd wants. The medical science that brought us ultrasounds prove that a heart muscle is starting to work will not be used to confirm death.
Are those ultrasound wands used for anything else other than to prove conception happened? Can they be used to determine of the Repub. Legislators have a heart? I know where we can use them and start checking.
Story and rant over.
spinbaby
(15,090 posts)A woman in early pregnancy should be able to get an abortion for any reason or no reason.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,341 posts)uriel1972
(4,261 posts)she should be able to get one, without question. Early pregnancy, or no.
They_Live
(3,233 posts)gopiscrap
(23,760 posts)UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)to ALWAYS going forward.
Freddie
(9,265 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)They don't seem to be able to think outside their own interests until it smacks them in the face.
rickford66
(5,523 posts)There was no way she could continue the pregnancy for many reasons. This was back in late 60's. I know it affected her in so many ways for all her life. She should have been able to have a legal medical procedure by her choice instead of the shame and lies she endured. There are no laws controlling men's bodies. Maybe there should be.
VOX
(22,976 posts)After that, youre not only on your own, youre now a target for the right wings favorite method: birth control after-the-fact: anti-vaxxing, zero child services, no healthcare, education cuts, cannon-fodder for illegal wars, capital punishment, etc.
Billy Ray Joe Bob.
(65 posts)If men could get pregnant there would be drive up abortion clinic's on EVERY corner in the bible belt. It's all about control. I hope woman wake up or the Christian Taliban will destroy everything woman have worked for. Next,, should woman vote?
D_Master81
(1,822 posts)We were good friends years ago, have since kinda parted ways. But he is staunchly Republican and staunchly Pro Life. Like he's the type thats never voted for a Dem at any level of office in his life. I remember him
finally coming to our group of friends and having to admit and get it off his chest that he got a girl pregnant and then paid for her to get an abortion. He felt terrible about it, but it was too late at that point. So yes, its easy to say you're against abortion. But how do you react in the moment?
littlemissmartypants
(22,656 posts)Whatthe_Firetruck
(557 posts)I have been pointing people to this article for years. It's just as relevant and true as the first time I read it.
The only moral abortion is my abortion!
http://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/articles/anti-tales.shtml
At times, clinic staff understandably become frustrated and angry when they have to deal with abusive, hostile, or hypocritical patients. And it is rare for anti-choice women to express appreciation for the service they've received. But most clinics perform abortions on anti-abortion women because they feel it's their obligation to help all women. They provide more thorough and specialized counseling to these women to ensure they take ownership of their decision, as far as possible. Here's a couple of examples of counseling techniques:
"When a patient comes in with my 'favorite' sentiment: 'The only moral abortion is my abortion,' I try to expand her understanding that a few more of us have had and deserve a 'moral' abortion. When a woman expands her need for care beyond herself, you no longer have an 'anti'." (Clinic Administrator, Louisiana)
"Sometimes I say to patients who have that 'I have no choice, I know I'll regret it, just do me' attitude: 'You may not care, but we do. We only do abortions on women who want our services. We will not knowingly contribute to any possible trauma of any woman.' They seem surprised that we care how we do our work, but they also accept it." (Counselor, New York)
lostnfound
(16,179 posts)So bizarre. If a woman is against abortion, then I assume its because she considers it murder. Yet your example patients attitude is just do it, time for regrets later??
How messed up. And sad. Unexamined beliefs. The guilt, and fear of exposure, must be debilitating.
judy
(1,942 posts)But seeing the term "pro life" really turns my stomach. I understand the post of course, but it hurts to see the way right wing language has seeped into everyone's language.
Other than that, it is true, you're anti choice until it affects you personally.
Maybe I wouldn't be as upset if the author and tweeter had put quotes around the infamous Frank Luntz creation. Yuck.
Farmer-Rick
(10,170 posts)It is dangerous to the woman's health and to her sanity. The religiously insane and misogynist think these occasions are rare, they are NOT. Just ask around. How many horror stories of pregnancies gone bad or deadly have you heard?
When my wife was pregnant, she complained that every woman had some horror story to tell her and make her afraid. Yes, birth can be easy and fulfilling and rewarding. But it can also turn dangerous very easily. It's not because pregnancy is a disease or something. It's because evolution designed a system where there are many pitfalls. Just standing on 2 legs changed our biology and made childbirth more difficult.
I had a doctor walk me through the evolution of reproduction when I wanted to know why my wife was having so many problems. There are so many problems built right into our reproductive systems. I had no idea. Just look at how often women died in childbirth before the germ theory and cesareans were developed.
Forced birthers are opening up a can of misery for women and families.
Collimator
(1,639 posts)I'm not sure why. For many women in the post WWII period, maybe it was their response to the attention that their husbands received from telling about their actual war experiences.
Maybe some women are just seeking a sense of validation and credit for what they went through, and the people in their lives closest to them aren't giving them what they need.
It would be interesting to learn about the sorts of stories that women in different cultures share. I bring that thought up because I re-read your points about evolution. In one joint biology/anthropology class, we were shown drawings of three female pelvises (pelvi?) with an infant's skull emerging.
The first was a chimpanzee. From the point of view of the drawing, it was clear that there was plenty of room between the pelvic bones and the hard skull of the infant.
The second was Austrolapithicus, (excuse me while I look that word up), Australopithecus. The drawing indicated that the fit was considerably tighter between momma's bones and baby's bony head. It still looked doable, however.
Then there was Homo Sapiens. Based on the drawing, it appeared to be an impossible feat of physics for that head to emerge from that pelvis. The fact that it has happened literally billions of times on this earth doesn't diminish its essential illogic. It cannot be done. . . And yet it is.
There are some Biblical scholars who say that the story of Genesis and the curse laid upon Eve that her childbearing should be in pain is an allegory. Our big brains, which are the source of our "Knowledge of Good and Evil" are what make the prospect of giving birth so dicey. Getting kicked out of the Garden where life was simple is also seen as an allegory when we went from being animals with limited knowledge who lived directly with nature, to complex, moral beings who had to alter nature and its gifts to survive.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,432 posts)flexible. It adapts to the narrow birth canal. And the birth canal is also flexible. This is not a miracle by any means. Unfortunately for the case of overpopulation, conception is far too easy.
Since the rise of conservative Christianity, no one in the media EVER talks about overpopulation. Yet its likely a major factor in making the planet uninhabitable.
Collimator
(1,639 posts)And maybe the fleshy parts of the birth canal has some flexibility. Even the actual pelvic bones loosen and widen during earlier stages of pregnancy. But the bones themselves are not rubbery by any means.
I wasn't suggesting any miracle. But it looks impossible if you see the dimensions drawn out in a sketch of the bones. As for the pain associated with pushing something the size of a human infant's head through a human pelvis. . . I had an early miscarriage once, and the uterine cramps were insane. And all I was passing was blood. While I don't think giving birth should be looked upon as any woman's greatest accomplishment, I do give credit where credit is due.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,432 posts)but the anti-choice MEN blame women for getting pregnant when its time to choose. And then they want to criminalize DOCTORS, further distancing themselves from responsibility. The whole issue isnt about accountability. Its about power. And women are once again shoved to the bottom.
Collimator
(1,639 posts)In high school, I was very active in Campus Life Youth for Christ. Just a year or so after graduation, I was talking to another member of my local group. She was unmarried and had gotten pregnant. She explained that she "didn't have an abortion" but rather was given an injection to cause miscarriage.
She was given the money for the procedure by one of the young men in our group (not the father) who was sympathetic because his girlfriend had two abortions.
Years later, I heard that the young woman had a baby, technically within wedlock but the father was out of the picture. She received support from another friend in the group--which is good, of course. But I wonder if she spent any amount of time protesting clinics.
If she did, she probably justified it as having learned from her own "sin" and wanted to help others avoid that guilt. But hey, as long as everything was safe and legal when she needed it . . .
lunasun
(21,646 posts)Its one thing if they are selfish and only care about themselves and make no push back on anti choice measures that do not concern them and have been neutral then come around when it hits them
but when they are declared prolifers and actually support anti choice action and then do a 180 because it is now them or their family I say fuck them