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Sun May 26, 2019, 01:49 PM

European Parliament Elections thread jamboree

Over the next few hours we will see the make up of the the new European Pariliament, with the concern about the advances of the Far Right .












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Reply European Parliament Elections thread jamboree (Original post)
OnDoutside May 2019 OP
OnDoutside May 2019 #1
Eugene May 2019 #2
OnDoutside May 2019 #3
Ghost Dog May 2019 #6
OnDoutside May 2019 #7
DFW May 2019 #11
MFM008 May 2019 #28
DFW May 2019 #29
greatauntoftriplets May 2019 #4
OnDoutside May 2019 #5
OliverQ May 2019 #8
OnDoutside May 2019 #9
DFW May 2019 #12
OnDoutside May 2019 #13
DFW May 2019 #15
OnDoutside May 2019 #16
DFW May 2019 #25
OnDoutside May 2019 #30
DFW May 2019 #32
OnDoutside May 2019 #33
DFW May 2019 #34
OnDoutside May 2019 #36
DFW May 2019 #38
Ghost Dog May 2019 #20
UniteFightBack May 2019 #10
OnDoutside May 2019 #14
malaise May 2019 #17
Baclava May 2019 #18
Ghost Dog May 2019 #19
OnDoutside May 2019 #23
OnDoutside May 2019 #22
suffragette May 2019 #26
malaise May 2019 #27
OnDoutside May 2019 #31
moondust May 2019 #21
OnDoutside May 2019 #24
DFW May 2019 #35
OnDoutside May 2019 #37

Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 01:51 PM

1. The Right make advances in Spain...

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 01:53 PM

2. Center-right narrowly leads in EU vote: estimate

Center-right narrowly leads in EU vote: estimate (Reuters)

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The center-right European Peoplesí Party would get 173 seats in the new European Parliament, followed by the Socialists with 147, and liberals getting 102 seats, a parliament official said on Sunday evening, presenting a first aggregated estimate.

The seat projection was based on national estimates from some EU states that have already been announced and pre-election voting intention figures for the others.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-election-result-estimate/center-right-narrowly-leads-in-eu-vote-estimate-idUSKCN1SW0SW

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 01:56 PM

3. Unfortunately it looks like the Greens are doing well across Europe too.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #3)

Sun May 26, 2019, 04:07 PM

6. This is far from unfortunate for Europe

and for the world.

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #6)

Sun May 26, 2019, 04:36 PM

7. As an ideal, I agree, but the problem is single issue parties take away support from

Broadbased progressive parties. Here in Ireland, during the economic crisis, the Green Party kept the criminally corrupt Fianna Fail in power, in return for the Environment ministry and a few other trinkets. Subsequently they got wiped out in parliament, but unfortunately the public's memory is short....even Fianna Fail are making a comeback.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #3)

Sun May 26, 2019, 05:30 PM

11. The Greens here are nothing like the Greens in the USA

Nothing like Ralph Nader or Jill Stein. The Greens here are more like Jay Inslee.

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Response to DFW (Reply #11)

Mon May 27, 2019, 04:02 AM

28. Good

Since hes my Governor.

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #28)

Mon May 27, 2019, 04:22 AM

29. I've never met him in person

But I've spoken to him on the phone for almost half an hour. He seems like a really good guy, knows where he's at, and what he wants to do. Not a bunch of tired slogans with no plan behind them, like so many others. You could do MUCH worse (look at Texas, for example!).

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 02:04 PM

4. That's damned depressing so far.

Marine Le Pen scares the bejesus out of me. She may be even worse than drumpf, if that's possible.

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Response to greatauntoftriplets (Reply #4)

Sun May 26, 2019, 02:54 PM

5. +1

Scary stuff....we need the US to get a Dem president for the fightback to begin.

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 04:41 PM

8. What I've seen is that far-right are gaining ground everywhere.

 

The entire world is embracing fascism.

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Response to OliverQ (Reply #8)

Sun May 26, 2019, 04:50 PM

9. Apparently the populists failed in Denmark and the Netherlands, so that's good.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #9)

Sun May 26, 2019, 05:33 PM

12. Where religious extremism has been coddled and excused here, the right did well

Otherwise, they didn't break out of any expected brackets.

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Response to DFW (Reply #12)

Sun May 26, 2019, 05:36 PM

13. I'm just hoping we can keep hanging on until a Democratic President in 2021. There are a few

positives tonight, isn't there ?

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #13)

Sun May 26, 2019, 05:53 PM

15. Except for the Greens doing well, not much

The German SPD deservedly got their asses handed to them (same tired old slogans that sent Martin Schulz packing 2 years ago), but their Spanish counterparts had a respectable showing.

Europe is fracturing, just like the Weimarer Republik did before Hitler's NSDAP "won" in 1933 (and check out with how much of the vote!). The vision of DeGaulle and Adenauer of uniting France and Germany, and integrating to the point where another war between France and Germany would be impossible is not dead, by any means, but the forces of disunity and nationalistic extremism are creeping back nonetheless.

It's really insane because today's European youth is completely on board with the notion of a united, borderless Europe. Go to any large gathering or main city square in Europe this summer, and you will find college students of 25 different nationalities, hanging out together as if they were all from the same place--and as far as they are concerned, they are. It's the fuck-ups here that go into politics. Voices of common sense get shouted down as if they were Democrats at a Fox Noise interview. It took a so-called "conservative" i.e. Angela Merkel, to have the courage to say no more nuclear power or coal burning in Germany. What did she get for her efforts? She got called "old and used up" by even the most liberal press here.

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Response to DFW (Reply #15)

Sun May 26, 2019, 05:59 PM

16. Agree with you on that. Our problem in the West is down to a lack

Of leadership and no one of stature looking to step up. If that leadership doesn't appear in the US in Jan 2021, I am fearful of the future.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #16)

Mon May 27, 2019, 03:22 AM

25. Full agreement, there

Where Germany, due to their 20th century past, does not seek a dynamic charismatic leader, the USA does. Merkel's quite, competent stability was just what the doctor ordered for Germany, and indeed it is the envy of Europe at this point.

If Biden becomes the nominee, his VP pick will be crucial.

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Response to DFW (Reply #25)

Mon May 27, 2019, 04:36 AM

30. I believe history will look favourably on Merkel's record. Were that other leaders were as resolute,

especially in France and the UK. Who's the favourite to replace her, and what are they like ?

I'm surprised how well Joe is holding up, it will be interesting to see how these debates go. The one positive is how many Democrats polled, want to coalesce around a candidate, I just hope the debates don't become nasty breaking that unity.

I agree about the VP pick, and though I'm not a betting man, if she continues to be strong my money would be on Harris.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #30)

Mon May 27, 2019, 07:05 AM

32. So far, there is no one to replace Merkel

Last edited Mon May 27, 2019, 02:52 PM - Edit history (1)

Her successor as party head, Annette Kramp-Karrenbauer, is an obvious choice, but far from a definite one. First the next federal elections have to take place, and they are not scheduled for two years. The last ones almost ended in a mess, and even the coalition that did result was unsatisfactory. What should have happened was a coalition between Merkel's CDU, the Greens and the FDP, who is a pro-business party that calls themselves "the Liberals." Like with the Greens, no similarity in terms with the USA.

The head of the FDP, who acts very much like he is in the pocket of the fossil fuel industry (coal, oil) torpedoed that coalition, and said he could never work with the Greens. Merkel was forced back into bed with the Social Democrats, who have nothing more to offer than tired old 20 year old slogans, and are in desperate need of rejuvenation. Unfortunately, the head of their youth division gave a fiery speech that could have come from Erich Honecker, himself, and sank the party's prospects for a rosy future in one blow.

One thing is for sure, if the elections were held today, Merkel would have no option but to coalesce with the Greens. But she has led her "conservatives (more socially liberal than half our Democrats, so don't get confused there, either)" slowly leftward, and the Greens have become slowly more pragmatic, so it makes sense. As of now, they don't have 50% between them, which means they would need a third coalition partner, and no one knows who that could be. Not "the Left" or the Afd, who are extremists on both ends of the spectrum, and not the FDP as long as they are led by the suspicious fossil fuel champion (if he is replaced, things get a LOT easier). One bright spot--last year, when Merkel stepped down as party leader, her party had three contenders to replace her. One hard-right (by their standards, not ours), one strong right, and the only woman, and she, the most moderate, won. VERY encouraging.

As for US, Biden is holding up well for now, but 18 months is an eternity in US politics, and anything could happen. Harris is one viable pick, though just one out of many. Far from my favorite, that's for sure. If Biden survives the gauntlet and picks up the nomination, I think Klobuchar, Buttigieg and Inslee have equal chances of being picked, and they don't have the baggage of Harris' ruthless prosecutions when she had that position. Biden could also go outside the circle of other candidates and pick someone completely off that radar, like Howard Dean or Joe Kennedy III. Who knows, maybe even Norm Ornstein or Al Franken? There is a lot of talent to choose from. I reject the notion that the ticket MUST include mixed gender and race just as I reject the notion that it must not. Get a ticket that inspires, and it will get people to the polls in droves. Their pigmentation or chromasomes are matters I don't care about.

One thing I see as a given--whoever our nominee picks as VP, the choice will not be universally popular. However, as long as it is someone who brings some true appeal to the table, and has a good heart (indeed, like Biden himself did in 2008), I'm happy.

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Response to DFW (Reply #32)

Wed May 29, 2019, 04:45 PM

33. Thanks for a fantastic update !

With those federal elections in 2 years, it at least gives a little space for moderate politics to make a comeback. Hopefully anyway.

100% agree with your wish that the VP selection is an inspiring choice. If Joe is the nominee, I think it will narrow the field of VP candidates to those under 60 at least.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #33)

Wed May 29, 2019, 05:08 PM

34. It might, but there are some VERY youngish 60 plus people around these days.

Howard will be 71 this November (I can hardly believe it, but the calendar doesn't lie), and Jay Inslee is a VERY young 68. Howard and Jay have very youthful and dynamic voices and are quick on their feet. So, I wouldn't count them out just on their age. On the other hand, if the nominee goes for youth (Buttigieg, O'Rourke, Kennedy, e.g.), I can't fault THAT logic, either. That would depend somewhat on the age of the eventual nominee of course. If we nominate someone under 70, the choice of VP might be made from a different pool of possibles from what the pool might be if the nominee is over 70.

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Response to DFW (Reply #34)

Wed May 29, 2019, 05:56 PM

36. Howard would be an excellent VP, though I would LOVE to see Buttigieg square up to Pence in a VP

debate !

I agree, this is entirely dependant on who the nominee is, and then the age makeup would change.

Also 60 is the new 39 !

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #36)

Wed May 29, 2019, 10:55 PM

38. I've known Howard for almost 20 years now, and he has more energy than the energizer bunny

A couple of years ago, we rode from Washington to New York City together on the train, and he had just gotten in from London, had something to do in DC and then that evening in New York. Along the way, he said he was seriously jet lagged and needed to sleep. I said, sure, go ahead. He napped for all of five minutes, and then was completely recharged. If that had been me, I would have dozed off before the train got halfway to Baltimore, and probably wouldn't have woken up again until New Haven, an hour past where I wanted to get off!

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 05:22 PM

10. This is all very concerning indeed. nt

 

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 05:40 PM

14. EU elections: centrist groups expected to lose grip on power

The 40-year grip of the two main centrist political groups on the levers of power in Brussels looked set to be broken as voters in the European elections turned out in record numbers to bolster radical alternatives including the Greens and the far right.

A populist Eurosceptic surge failed to emerge on Sunday but they were on track to be returned to the European parliament in larger numbers than ever before, with Marine Le Penís National Rally celebrating a narrow symbolic victory over Emmanuel Macronís En Marche in France.


EU election results 2019: across Europe
Read more
There were also signs of major success for the Greens, with the party jumping from 50 MEPs in 2014 to as many as 71 across Europe, almost doubling their result in Germany from the previous election to leapfrog the Social Democratic party (SPD) into second place with 22%, the exit polls suggested.

As votes for the centre parties fall away, the results trigger a starting gun on what will be tortuous negotiations over the key jobs in the EU institutions, including Jean-Claude Junckerís replacement as European commission president.

The makeup of the parliament will be used by the 28 heads of state and government to guide their choice of replacement for Juncker and his counterpart in the European council, Donald Tusk.

SNIP

The estimated results based on exit polls leave the centre-right European Peopleís party as the largest in the parliament, but down from 221 seats to 173.

The Socialists and Democrats group also appeared set to drop from 191 seats to 147, leaving the two main groups looking likely to need help from Alliance of Liberals and Democrats (ALDE) with about 102 seats, bolstered by Macronís En Marche, and the Greens to form a stable majority.

The European of Nations and Freedom group, which combines populist and far-right parties in countries including France and Italy, looked set to secure 57 seats, up 20 from five years ago.

Italyís far-right League, headed by Deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini, is vying with Nigel Farageís Brexit party as to which will be the biggest single party in the parliament, after polls suggested it would secure 27-31%, increasing its seats from 5 to 25.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/26/european-elections-centrist-parties-projected-lose-grip-power

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #14)

Sun May 26, 2019, 06:46 PM

17. Haven't the Europeans seen through Bannon and the Con yet?

Not good

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Response to malaise (Reply #17)

Sun May 26, 2019, 07:36 PM

18. Evidently not at all... 'CENTRE COLLAPSES'

Brexit Party storms to victory in EU elections, Nigel Farage delivered a massive "wake-up call" to the Tories and Labour as he led the Brexit Party to a historic win in the European elections.

Hungaryís far-right nationalist Prime Minister Viktor Orban has scored a huge win

France: Marine Le Penís right wing party Rassemblement National (National Rally) (RN) becomes biggest party in France with 24% of votes amid historic high voter turnout

Italy's far-right League come out on top in EU election

Belgium: far-right surge in national parliament elections

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/may/26/european-elections-2019-results-eu-election-parliament-brexit-party-farage-tories-may-live
This is the DU member formerly known as Baclava.

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Response to Baclava (Reply #18)

Sun May 26, 2019, 07:50 PM

19. Bullshit "Brexit Party victory" from UK MSM spinners.

"Many noting that the combined vote share of the three strong (English) Remain parties Ė the Lib Dems, the Greens and Change UK Ė itís more than the 32 per cent the Brexit Party has taken. Itís a point Green co-leader Sian Berry has made on the BBC."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/european-elections-results-live-updates-conservative-latest-brexit-party-eu-farage-ukip-tommy-a8931156.html

Add in Scottish, Welsh results even more so.

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Response to Baclava (Reply #18)

Mon May 27, 2019, 02:02 AM

23. It's not as bad as it could have been. The Centre will do a deal with the Greens and/or Liberals.

The Fascists will still only have 20-25%, and there is general agreement that the other groups won't touch them.

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Response to malaise (Reply #17)

Mon May 27, 2019, 01:59 AM

22. It's looking like the Far Right/Fascist/Populist haven't made any gains. They'll still be around the

20-25% mark, but the Centre Right-Centre Left have lost their majority and will now have to horse trade with the Greens and/or the Liberals. Plus it appears the original candidate from the Centre Right for Commission President, did badly in his home patch, so now it is possible for Michel Barnier (who did so well for the EU in the Brexit negotiations), to win that vote.

It could have been a LOT worse !

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #22)

Mon May 27, 2019, 03:47 AM

26. Very glad to hear this. I'm sure they'll try to disrupt as much as they can, but hopefully this

puts a damper on their chances of doing so.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #22)

Mon May 27, 2019, 03:51 AM

27. Great news

PHEW!

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Response to malaise (Reply #27)

Mon May 27, 2019, 04:38 AM

31. Yes, it buys us a little time to get a Democratic President, to start leading again.

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Response to OnDoutside (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2019, 09:32 PM

21. All paper ballots?

Watching coverage on some EU TV stations, whenever they show polling places I only see paper ballots. Nothing about voting machines or foreign hacking.



Looks to me like migration and climate change are driving far right and greens; could be long-term issues. More radical right probably not a good sign for future "compromise," although if nothing gets done their support could fade.

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Response to moondust (Reply #21)

Mon May 27, 2019, 02:03 AM

24. I'm pretty sure some EU countries do, but all the ones I know, have paper ballots. After what

went on in the US, I think that won't change either.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #24)

Wed May 29, 2019, 05:22 PM

35. No plans AT ALL here to imitate the USA with its hackable machines

Although their software is not perfect here, and they don't take their weaknesses seriously enough.

Case in point, although this was 30 years ago: my wife went to vote one time, and was refused. She asked why, and was told that she lived in Munich (at the other end of Germany) and had to vote there. She has never lived in Munich in her life, and said their information was in error. They snottily said their computer showed that she lived in Munich, and therefore, she lived in Munich. A social worker by profession, my wife then then told hem to look up our daughters (aged 5 and 3 at the time), and asked where they lived. Sure enough, the girls lived right here at home. My wife said the election official should immediately call the police and have her arrested for child abandonment, or she would call them and have the election official cited for having made the false accusation publicly--or they could let her vote. There is NOTHING a bureaucrat fears more than being publicly shown up to be in error, so they let her vote. But they never did manage to erase her fictitious residence in Munich (she was subsequently "moved" up here where she had always been).

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Response to DFW (Reply #35)

Wed May 29, 2019, 06:01 PM

37. We had a major scandal here in Ireland (what's new ?), where the Fianna Fail

government of the time, (under that crook Bertie Ahern) decided we were to have voting machines. They paid a fortune for them, buying from a Dutch company who wouldn't release the software for public scrutiny, AND there was no paper trail ! They were stored in a warehouse for years (at enormous cost) before being scrapped. We have a great system of tallymen here, and people have confidence in the counting system.

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