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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsConservatives Stunned by Mueller Suggesting Trump Is Not Innocent
Conservatives Stunned by Mueller Suggesting Trump Is Not Innocent
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/conservatives-stunned-by-mueller-implying-trump-not-innocent.html
Robert Muellers brief, eight-minute remarks on Wednesday about his investigation left the non-conservatives who closely follow his work fairly nonplussed. Mueller was simply reiterating things he had already written in his report. Conservatives, on the other hand, erupted in outrage.
What so vexed the right about Muellers curt affirmation of his previous conclusions? The answer, as well see, seems to be that they believed their own propaganda about what Mueller had (and had not) found. Presented even briefly with reality, their minds have reeled in shock.
<<snip>>
Shortly after Mueller finished speaking, National Reviews Charles C.W. Cooke complained, Investigators are supposed to look for evidence that a crime was committed, and, if they dont find enough to contend that a crime was committed, they are supposed to say We didnt find enough to contend that a crime was committed
If a person doesnt have enough evidence that someone committed a crime to contend that a crime was committed, he is obliged to presume his innocence.
Of course. But the explanation for this apparent paradox, which apparently hasnt crossed Cookes mind, is that Mueller does have evidence that Trump committed crimes. Pages and pages and pages of evidence, in fact.
And as silly and basic as his error may be, fellow conservatives followed the same fundamentally mistaken premise. By implying that President Trump might have committed obstruction of justice, Mueller effectively invited Democrats to institute impeachment proceedings, writes a stunned Alan Dershowitz. Obstruction of justice is a high crime and misdemeanor which, under the Constitution, authorizes impeachment and removal of the president.
Right. Mueller found clear and extensive evidence that Trump committed high crimes and misdemeanors. Dershowitz proceeds from his confusion to complain that Muellers insinuation that Trump committed high crimes could only be resolved through a full adversarial trial with a zealous defense attorney, vigorous cross-examination, exclusionary rules of evidence, and other due process safeguards. That process is called impeachment. Dershowitz is describing the reason why Mueller is leaving the decision to prosecute the crimes he discovered to Congress. Because Dershowitz cannot surrender his belief in Trumps innocence, he sees Mueller as carrying out an unfathomable Kafkaesque travesty, rather than a straightforward application of the system of processing presidential crimes.
John Podhoretz laments that Mueller emphasized his lack of exoneration of Trumps conduct. Granted, [Mueller] said pretty much the same thing in the report he produced, Podhoretz concedes, but t matters what he chose to repeat from it and what he did not. He wanted the American people to hear him speak those words. Podhoretz is aghast that Mueller would emphasize this, but the reason is perfectly obvious: Its because Barr lied about it.
<<snip>>
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)SHRED
(28,136 posts)Of their own making and nurturing.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)and as if they are some kind of reductio ad absurdem that couldn't possibly be true. Yes, these things are true. Get used to it.
dchill
(38,465 posts)While they're talking themselves into it.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)sop
(10,146 posts)Had that report had come to light, Barr and/or Rosenstein would now claim Mueller wasn't authorized to reach such conclusions since Trump cannot be charged.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Yes, even if he just reiterates his report word for word, there's another dimension of communication in verbal testimony that isn't there with the written word. Conservatives can dependably rely on their supporters not reading something. That's active information gathering that they know their fans don't much care for. But listening to someone speak, with inflections and nuances and emphases unavailable in a written report? That's whole nother kettle of horses of a different feather.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)the old saying that people will watch the movie, but not read the book, definitely applies.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)John Fante
(3,479 posts)spooky3
(34,430 posts)Blue Owl
(50,347 posts)Raven123
(4,813 posts)He assumed DOJ and the GOP controlled Senate would accept a nuanced conclusion to his investigation. What was he thinking????? I read the Mueller report.
Regardless of OLC opinion about indicting a sitting President, Mueller had an obligation to complete a FULL investigation, including deposing POTUS in-person. The idea that he would back-off because of a fairness doctrine is absurd. Unless he has had his head in the sand I dont know how Mueller could conceive that a could not exonerate conclusion would not be twisted by Trump and his administration.
Now we are left with Barr claiming Mueller should have identified a crime if he found one and Mueller saying it wasnt his job due to OLC.
JUST TOO CONVENIENT.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)it stated that they regarded getting Trump to testify on the stand as something that would be tied up in the courts for an extended period of time, even though they considered his written answers to be inadequate.
Raven123
(4,813 posts)Brawndo
(535 posts)Raven123
(4,813 posts)Brawndo
(535 posts)policy. It's almost like Barr isn't acting in good faith.
If the USA has an epitaph it should include a bit about how a 243 year Constitutional Republic wasn't worth one good Marine's integrity. In his mind, our country isn't worth being "unfair" to Individual 1.
catbyte
(34,367 posts)when President Obama easily won re-election, but they were all convinced we were going to see a "Romney Tsunami?" Willful ignorance is one of the hardest things to break through because they don't want reality. They want their fantasy world.
Ford_Prefect
(7,876 posts)They still believe that they are so exceptional that the rules, any rules, simply do not apply to them. Rules are for ordinary people, not for God's chosen. This kind of thing just isn't supposed to happen to them, is it?
sop
(10,146 posts)As they say, "you can't reason someone out of a position they didnt reason themselves into."
Ligyron
(7,624 posts)Romney believed the Fox narrative that President Obama wouldn't use the term "terrorist" when they had him on tape doing just that.
A brainwashed fox bubble dwelling friend of mine on Facebook threatened to block me when I pointed out Trump liked to bust in on partially nude female contestants during the beauty pageants he sponsored, even doing so on underage girls in his teen pageants.
Why that couldn't possibly be true! A link to Trump bragging about doing so on The Howard Stern Show shut him up.
He and his friend had been pushing the Joe Bidden is a creepy hands all over strange females pervert stalker nonsense.
They live in another world.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... that Mueller testify to congress
spanone
(135,816 posts)BlueJac
(7,838 posts)regardless of all facts, they still believe!
DallasNE
(7,402 posts)440 page reports don't get read by the masses. But 9 minute public addresses get watched and only that can change minds. Now we need the additional disinfectant administered by public discovery hearings intended to lead to impeachment. And don't worry about the politics because this is what is demanded by the rule of law as laid out in the Constitution itself.
Ligyron
(7,624 posts)Wag the Dog rule #1.
Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)d'oh
certainot
(9,090 posts)for 2 years! and then barr reinforced it and they're all in denial
if americans want to have a fact based discussion about ANY major issue we're going to have to destroy the talk radio monopoly that's probably being fed increasingly by the kremlin
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,881 posts)Mc Mike
(9,114 posts)Pea brained nazis.
NoMoreRepugs
(9,404 posts)demonstrates the exact opposite of the party line. Of course they are dumbfounded. This is why the BizzaroWorld of conservatives and our world are going to be in conflict for all time going forward. Time to get used to it people.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,568 posts)And due process is defined differently as well since it is not a criminal proceeding subject to Constitutional rules.
So Dershowitz can SMH
Merlot
(9,696 posts)Initech
(100,060 posts)If Trump is the hill they choose to die on, so be it!
Ohioboy
(3,240 posts)is one of most disgusting things about this whole thing. It shows how corrupt these clowns really are, and how they think we're all stupid.
deurbano
(2,894 posts)Robert Muellers brief, eight-minute remarks on Wednesday about his investigation left the non-conservatives who closely follow his work fairly nonplussed. Mueller was simply reiterating things he had already written in his report. Conservatives, on the other hand, erupted in outrage.
We'll miss you!
And yeah, for conservatives, black is white (when that's useful for them), so when confronted with reality, they push back aggressively. (While we let "nonplussed" become its opposite without a whimper...)
subterranean
(3,427 posts)I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.