General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI don't see the downside of Impeachment
If the Democrats don't begin impeachment proceedings, they will forever have to live with the fact that the President was unfit for office and they did nothing. As the story goes, the house will impeach, the senate will not convict, and Trump will rise stronger and more powerful. I don't see that. If Trump is a spectacle on TV, with his crimes laid out over and over, the tide may turn. Even the most dim Trump voter will have to have doubts or conclude it is all a plot against their dear leader. But I don't see but a small minority not having some doubts when impeachment dominates the news. Make the GOP go on record that they are supporting the corrupt Trump. Make them vote and stand by it. When the election comes, perhaps most voters will be simply sick and tired of Trump and the endless crimes and investigations. They might vote for whoever runs against him, and since Hillary is out of the picture what can they find so bad that Trump is better? I refuse to believe that given a choice Americans will vote for a crook. They got conned once, but twice?
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
real Cannabis calm
(1,124 posts)brutus smith
(685 posts)We need to worry about Dem voters, not GOP scum.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
ancianita
(36,017 posts)medyhar
(19 posts)IMHO, it is obvious Pelosi is delaying this forever so it never happens.
Nuggets
(525 posts)They have the exact same access now. Its not on the news now.
It seems the trolls think they have found their wedge issue for Dems.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
sugarmommom
(4 posts)"Washington (CNN)House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and House Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler resisted pressure from the left to open an impeachment inquiry on Wednesday, following special counsel Robert Mueller's announcement he's closing his office and would not provide information beyond his already public report in any appearance before Congress.
...Pelosi noted, only about 15% of House Democrats are "outspoken on impeachment" at this time..." (5/30/2019)
PufPuf23
(8,764 posts)listening to the rank and file of their constituents, they are only listening to the Chamber of Commerce Democrats and not the majority of the party. Some of these folks live in a bubble and do not recognize how much they are isolated from most citizens. House Democrats should be leading the charge and more concerned about the extent and cascading of damage from Trump as POTUS.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Pelosi is politically savvy enough to know this, so, it's just a matter of time - soon I hope!! - before the start of impeachment proceedings.
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
Poiuyt
(18,122 posts)I'm guessing that most Democrats in the House would vote to impeach unless they come from very conservative districts.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,169 posts)Half of the large slate of candidates have spoken up in favor. I'd project that percent at minimum on the party as a whole.
wryter2000
(46,032 posts)1. Do it now, and it's over and forgotten by the American people before the election.
2. Do it before we have evidence of his financial crimes, and we miss out on charging him with those.
I'm all for impeachment but not now. Time it so the worst is coming out in September of 2020. We must remove him from office, and impeachment won't do that.
Aristus
(66,310 posts)Have Trump try to campaign with this around his neck.
It's too soon to bring up the big guns.
PufPuf23
(8,764 posts)and the proposed and final candidates should be listening and talking to their constituents.
Start the impeachment process and investigation now and then have the vote at a critical time, it is Pelosi's choice as SOH to schedule the vote. That way Trump is most exposed as are the GOP in general and the Democratic party benefits as a whole, top to bottom.
How impeachment is approached by Democratic law makers and candidates will have a large bearing on my vote and what I recommend to others in life away from DU.
You are flat out wrong to think there should be a wait to election season. Open the process now and vote when the votes are there.
Another thing is to not make the Mueller investigation and report the be all and end all; the result so far has been just about what I expected. Mueller is a GOP fixer and has been for his entire career. Just another Fitzmas (which was what I expected at that time too).
Aristus
(66,310 posts)And let the House get on with the investigations. They could subpoena Trump to appear before Congress at times that would make it inconvenient, if not impossible, to campaign on the road.
Meanwhile, our selected candidate can be on the road campaigning with gusto while Trump is in a hearing room somewhere, putting his hand over the mike and leaning over to his council for whispered advice all day.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... does not fare to well historically.
Even Clinton's numbers fell sharp with republicans post impeachment and democrats did not gain control of anything
enough
(13,256 posts)and Trump rides that wave of pure righteous vindication right into his second term as President.
I see no downside for Trump.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)He can say... "Dems couldn't impeach because they didn't have anything on me!"
or "If I did anything wrong, why didn't they IMPEACH ME?!?!"
See how that works?
procon
(15,805 posts)like an indictment by a grand jury. It doesn't go away, so once he's charged, even after an acquittal, Trump will always carry the stigma of Impeachment just like Clinton has.
The Constitution grants to the House of Representatives "the sole power of impeachment", and the Senate has the power to try all Impeachments and either convict or acquit.
Impeachment is a remedial tool that serves to maintain our constitutional government by removing individuals unfit for office. Whether or not the Republican Senate can set aside politics to examine the evidence the the House presents on Impeachment, won't change the fact that Trump was Impeached.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)Then is that outcome realistic? What are the chances of attaining that outcome?
What are the risks?
Did you do that kind of analysis?
wryter2000
(46,032 posts)I think most people eager for impeachment are only looking at how right it is to do, as in the Democrats' duty. i have to agree with that completely. But my goal, and I think it should be everyone's, is to make sure he doesn't get another four years to commit his crimes. If I understand correctly, the statute of limitations on some of the obstruction counts will expire before 2024. If we hope to charge him with them and put him in jail after he's out of office, he has to lose in 2020. (Of course, he continues obstructing every day, so that might not be a big problem.)
So, yes, impeach, but do it in a way that most hurts his chances of winning in 2020.
Poiuyt
(18,122 posts)I know he won't be removed, but history will always see that he was impeached.
walkingman
(7,591 posts)I don't think any Trump voter will change their mind no matter what he does and I suspect that most Independents are fed up with him. I worry more about the Dems turning out - that has always been our Achilles heal. There are not enough Republicans to win dog catcher if Dems turned out in most elections.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
andym
(5,443 posts)when the Senate invariably finds him not guilty in the trial that follows impeachment. It will be public relations bonanza for him.
Tertullian
(46 posts)no message
kimbutgar
(21,111 posts)And Then profiting off being president despite being outrageous, treasonous and traitorous not subject to impeachment? To accept this and enable it makes you an enemy of America.
To salvage our constitution fat donnie needs to be impeached in congress. Turtle is so corrupt he wont even bring up impeachment hearings in the senate. The Democrats will have the perfect narrative. Fat Donnie and Turtle want to tear up our constitution and make it a worthless piece of paper. The law of the land is thrown out the window. Liberty and justice for all is now bullshit.
zanana1
(6,106 posts)And Pence, even though he's batshit evangelical, could be elected in 2020.
patphil
(6,164 posts)I also believe it would be nearly impossible for the Senate to find him guilty and remove him from office.
Since Trump's wrongdoing is blatant, the Senate's decision of not guilty would blow up in their faces.
Patrick Phillips
zentrum
(9,865 posts)...investigations into Mueller findings in a few weeks.
This is the groundwork needed. Nadler's point is that until you get majority support from the people, impeachment will be a flop.
The investigations are designed to make the country itself start clamoring for impeachment.
It can't just come from a the blue states. Or it risks helping Trump.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Of public opinion is not that simple to me. What happened when Mueller obstruction info came out? Their side said "No big deal. Nothing to see here. See, he didn't charge him.". Couple that with our side not unilaterally stating that we believe there were impeachable offenses there. Add in that we are proceeding to investigate so we can achieve ironclad, compelling evidence, what would the average person think?
That we don't have it now. It's not like you can be outraged retroactively.
And, how can we even expect support for impeachment to grow without any additional new crimes to lump in anytime soon? With trump doing his drag it out in court dance?