DOW crashing, down over 300 points

[Johnny2X2X]

Know this, since the day the trump tax cuts went into effect, 1/2/18, the markets are dead flat, no gains at all. UE rate down 1/2 point, growth around 2.5% on average. And the deficit is exploding and will have nearly doubled by year's end.

his tax cuts did nothing for the economy. And the Stock Market gains that were made, were made when Obama's rates and policies were still law.

[tanyev]

1. Cheif Stable Genius strikes again.

[Wounded Bear]

2. Been basically "crashing" all of May...

Trump is trying to wage economic war on the world.

Good job.

[spooky3]

29. Exactly. It's a pet peeve of mine when the media talk only about one day changes. In the context

of what has been happening all month, the picture is far worse.

[BSdetect]

3. The Chinese are very serious and the impact is growing

Expect companies to stand up and attack the bloated upstart drumph

He is destroying value by the billions.

[Johnny2X2X]

7. Trump overplayed his hand with China

China has a long term economic plan, everything they do is with this plan in mind, Trump only thinks short term.

The problem for us in dealing with China is that they have a plan in motion to dominate Africa, Asia, and Europe economically, they'd be happy if the US was a partner for them, but are fine if we're not. China's political system will allow them to bear much more pain than ours will.

So China can dump our bonds and make it tough for Trump, what they're about to do though is withhold rare earth metals from the market which will disrupt the global economy in ways people can't fully imagine.

You can be firm with China, but move forward together, that is the only way. Trump is daring them to destroy our economy and they are warning us they're about to do it.

[dalton99a]

14. China Plans a List of U.S. Firms to Block, in Answer to Trump

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/31/business/china-list-us-huawei-retaliate.html
China Plans a List of U.S. Firms to Block, in Answer to Trump
By Alexandra Stevenson and Paul Mozur
May 31, 2019

[Bernardo de La Paz]

27. I think today's movement due to Trump TAX on Mexican imports: food, auto parts, consumer goods. . nt

[Iliyah]

4. But the USA's

economy is booming!

not . . . . . .

[maryellen99]

11. His supporters/voters absolutely believe this

They think this is the best economy in the past 50 years.

[Volaris]

47. That's because the parts of the market that are stable, are that way because Obama MADE them that wa

As soon as the lagging indicators catch up to what Trump has done already , all hell is going to break loose.

[cilla4progress]

53. Yeah,

just read in LBN that his poll numbers have gone up because of the great economy!

I'm sorry, but, Americans are DUMB. It's a result of defunding public schools.

[femmedem]

5. Probably because of Trump's announcement re Mexican tariffs/immigration

See https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212146786

[jmowreader]

24. That's exactly right

Investors hate tariffs like Baptists hate sin. Trump has just announced that not only will everything from Mexico will be more expensive until the Mexican government does something it has no power to do, we’re probably also looking at the Mexicans not buying any more corn from the US.

Welcome to the Shit Show of Epic Proportions.

[Botany]

6. Tariffs, trade wars, loss of markets for ag products, crashing of ag prices, loss of good jobs, ...

... and now massive deficits thanx to Trump's give away to the rich all these things must make
Putin very happy.

BTW Trump's tariffs w/Mexico to stop the flow of illegal immigrants is really rich too.
Trump has a long time history of hiring undocumented workers for his golf courses and
building projects.

[ancianita]

20. 45 is tarriffying the country into economic flatline.

[ooky]

8. He had a bad week in the news cycle about his criminal activities

So he decided it was time to do something to distract from it.

[ck4829]

62. Yep

[Laura PourMeADrink]

9. My husband is a banker and he was telling me about how bad some

Of his commercial clients said it is with raw materials It’s impossible to keep your costs, pricing and inventory in synch. A typical part of running a business, but they are used to some stability. Now it’s a trump threat to raise tariffs which drives costs up one day, then he reneges and prices drop..so you are then sitting in overpriced inventory.

[yardwork]

22. Too many business leaders are still in denial about the tariffs. .

I've heard business owners say about Trump's tariffs, "It's painful now but it will be good for the country in the long run."

I don't believe that. I don't think that tariffs and other forms of isolationism are ever good in the long run. They lead to inflation and they lead to nationalism. The global economy is imperfect but it prevents wars. Globalization has created the single greatest increase in standard of living for billions of people around the world that humans have ever experienced. Protectionism and nationalism are going to wreck that.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

37. Good points. Trump is like normal people

sitting around in the living room just bullshitting and without knowledge say...that's stupid why don't they do x y or z. We've all done that. But we are not president ..leader of the Free world (shutter). He has the resources of the best and brightest in the world to draw on and he still just keeps acting like Uncle Joe sitting in the living room!

If you believe our trade positions and deals were completely effed up before, you have to believe that everyone who dealt with the matter is an idiot who wants the US to get ripped off. Instead of a natural equalibrium.

The only part of nationalism I miss is a beloved and dignified president like Obama. He would have already been denouncing NK after it was disclosed yesterday that they executed their US envoy.

[stopdiggin]

55. always said, I like my neighbor .. DON'T think he should be running ..

Yes. Everybody before Trump was "weak" and "stupid." Nobody knew anything about trade, economics, business, immigration .. or running a country. When the historians look back at us .. Excuse me while I go off for a good cry.

I will add, because the topic is tariffs and trade, the one thing that I think a lot of people who actually KNOW anything about business and trade might have agreed needed to be addressed was China's long standing (institutionalize) practice of intellectual theft. But .. initiating a trade war does NOTHING to address the issue. Not to mention throwing the baby out with the bathwater (i.e., soybeans and strategic minerals). So, that represents a FAIL too. More winning!

[llmart]

50. Great post!

Everything you said is true.

[imanamerican63]

10. "FAKE NEWS"!

[elleng]

12. Here:

S&P 500
-1.18%
Dow
-1.15%
Nasdaq
-1.33%

[Johnny2X2X]

13. Trump doesn't believe in international law

We have the WTO, which has been a great vehicle for negotiating successful and fair deals with China, Trump and his flock don't believe in international laws and courts, so he is bypassing that and creating trade wars.

What is crazy is that the entire Conservative Economic Movement of the last 75 years is built on free trade, meaning No Tariffs. It's being thrown away in an instant.

[Farmer-Rick]

16. Laws don't apply to Trump...or so Putin told him.

[awesomerwb1]

15. 300 points is hardly a "crash"

The title is extremely sensationalist.

Oh yeah, and trump is an idiot x 1000.

[onenote]

18. Everytime the market drops by a couple of hundred points,someone says its crashing

It's not and the better bet will be that it will recover over time. It may not climb over 26,000 anytime soon, but I'll be surprised if it isn't back above 25,200 in a few weeks.

[spooky3]

35. Check out 2018. The losses in the fall more than wiped out the gains from the rest of the year.

The "recovery" in 2019 is now being wiped out again. Look at all of May, not just one day.

Trump is completely incompetent at managing economic policy.

[ooky]

38. +1

To add to your comment, the real issue with the market is it isn't going anywhere. After the initial Trump election bump it has gone flat over a range of about 3000 points on the Dow it just keeps losing and then regaining and then losing again. Over and over. When this tariff announcement came it was already in its down cycle anyway.

[spooky3]

34. It IS a crash when taken together with all of the other drops in May. This is why

focusing on only one day is a problem. Up through May, it was a good year for the stock market, but now through ineptness, gains are being wiped out.

Trump did the same thing in 2018. The stock market did well until September. Then Sept - Dec wiped out ALL of the gains and added losses. This is terrible for savers and people whose retirement accounts are invested in the stock market, and it is totally unnecessary and due to bad decisions by Trump. A LOT of Americans are adversely affected by this. If Boomers are not making average gains on their savings, they have to work longer (if they can) and younger people have fewer job opportunities.

The Bush years were also terrible. They are a key reason why so many retirement funds became underfunded and people's savings did not grow as they would have during average times (stock market returns about 8% per year on average).

[onenote]

40. By that standard, the market "crashed" several times during the last two years of Obama's presidency

From January 2015 through election day 2018, the market jumped around quite a bit, starting out at around 17,800, falling as low as 15,666, climbing as high as 18,636. In the end, over that 24 month period, the market gained a piddling 3 percent and was down over 1.5 percent from its peak during that period.

I agree that one has to take a long view when assessing the market. A month isn't a long view.

[spooky3]

46. It's certainly longer than one day, in any case, which is what the media usually focuses on.

Last edited Fri May 31, 2019, 04:27 PM - Edit history (1)

And, I think that what is most disconcerting now is that Trump is causing a lot of the volatility, unnecessarily, as he did in 2018. With Obama, I (at least, and I think it's true for a lot of other people) had confidence that he and his party were doing their best to make good decisions, so we had reason to believe that the market would come back, which it did. We understood that many factors affected the market over which no Pres. would have control.

In addition, many have concerns that "Trump's Market" has been artificially propped up by the huge deficits created by the tax law changes that were NOT directed toward actions that would help the economy. This further undermines confidence.

[Auggie]

17. Short sellers, profit takers, crooked leaders, something like that ...

those who play the market wait for shit like this. Wouldn't surprise me if Trump, Putin, a Sheik or two, etc. is part of it.

[jmowreader]

28. What could be very interesting for someone with mainframe access...

Is to correlate SEC-registered short activity with Trump’s donor list. There is a nonzero chance Trump is manipulating the markets for the benefit of his friends.

[DFW]

19. That's like arresting someone for speeding for driving 40.5 mph in a 40 mph zone.

When the stock market is down 2500 points, or 10%, THEN you can start calling it a crash.

[spooky3]

36. Not everyone agrees with that standard. But even using that, we are getting close and trending down.

The S&P has lost about 6% in May, with losses for 5 consecutive weeks.

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/%5EGSPC?p=^GSPC

And it is all unnecessary.

[DFW]

56. Even after 6% down in May, the S&P is still up 28% since the 2016 election

That still counts as quite a bubble of comfort. It is enough to make any heavily invested Republican laugh when we try to gloat at what a disaster Trump has been for investors since May 1. That only counts as a "small correction" and hardly a collapse.

[spooky3]

60. By traditional standards, on average investors should see gains of about 8% per year.

So in the > 2.5 years since the Nov. 2016 election, we should expect at least 20%. Given that Trump benefited from the Obama economy his first year, and the tax law changes artificially (and temporarily, in many macroeconomists' estimation) juiced stock prices due to deficit spending and stock buybacks, changes since the election are not impressive. But maybe more importantly, the reasons for this recent dive (if you don't like the term "crash" ) clearly stem from Trump's irresponsible actions AND we have every reason to believe that these will continue. This is why those who are saying, "look beyond a one day drop", see this dive as troubling -- just as many viewed the fall of 2018, which more than wiped out the gains from earlier in the year.

[Loge23]

21. Republicans always wreck the economy

...and a Dem POTUS always gets to clean up the mess.
This time it'll be no different.

[House of Roberts]

32. Except it took Bush eight years, Trump will do it in four.

.

[Honeycombe8]

23. Everything he was warned about regarding a tariff war is coming true.

Still, he persists that "it'll work out." Despite evidence to the contrary and continuing advice from those who know.

Tariffs are taxes that are passed down to the consumer. He thinks they are add'l income to the country, so he's racking up money in the revenue fund, to partially replace the funds lost from the tax cut bill.

He's a moron.

Besides China, he's announced increased tariffs against Mexico, until not even one illegal immigrant crosses our border. He's ramping up the brown people immigration issue, because that gets his base all excited and it diverts attention from that nasty dirty "I" word.

[cvoogt]

25. it was down 400 yesterday

.. and that was not a crash. But... it's been down 5+ weeks straight, pretty much. Trade war with China and Mexico is not great economy policy.

[onenote]

39. It was not down 400 yesterday. It was up around 30.

At its worst point yesterday it was down around 70.

It's been trending downward the past month, largely because of Trump's trade nonsense and not surprising since it started the month at near record high levels (over 26,600).

[cvoogt]

52. you're right

I think I was thinking of Wednesday.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

26. Hardly crashing, but it is teasing the bears, being near 10% down from highs; defn of bear market.nt

[Achilleaze]

30. Thanks republicans

[Golden Raisin]

31. More multi-level chaos for Putin to laugh his ass off.

[question everything]

33. So much for he can win if he runs on the economy

It is not just the market which, admittedly is of no concerns to many (even those who should) but all the farmers and business owners and car makers who are, and will, pay the price.

[extvbroadcaster]

41. Trump stock manipulation

I have often thought that Trump is insider trading. Not him or his family directly, but his friends with big bucks and a kickback to Trump. Trump knows, or has been told, that he can make these twitter rants or say he is doing tariffs and the stock market goes down. A few days later, he says all is well, it goes back up. It does not take a genius to realize that all you have to do is have cash handy. Trump does his thing, market tanks, you buy the index. You hold on for a week, Trump says it is all good, market goes back up, you sell. Big bucks for the taking, as long as you have the inside deal with Trump.

[Vinca]

49. That's my suspicion, too. Manipulation by tweet. Someone's making lots of loot off it.

[Auggie]

51. Yeah ...

what I suggested in response #17,

Great minds, you know?

[magicarpet]

42. A master of deflection and deception.

Deal maker extraordinaire.

[LanternWaste]

43. 18-month trend for the US market looks less than stellar.

and various major indexes across the globe having endured corrections of at least 10%, or bear market declines of 20% or more this year. The yield curve is being propped by housing, and we may end up in recession territory by spring of 2020.

High levels of government and corporate debt, as well as a Trump's chaos in international trade, and the mystery of consequences of Brexit will be very disruptive to the world trade system.

(as for the literalists-- both biblical and secular, I avoided using any colorful adjectives to better make sure your delicates don't get mixed up with the colors and whites in the one-track machine you guys use).

[Joe Nation]

44. As a person who watches the financial markets frequently

You have seen anything yet.

[masmdu]

45. SnP futures up from here to 2864 then down to 2639

You're welcome.

[masmdu]

48. Just to mark the market SnP emini currently 2762

[redstatebluegirl]

54. We are waiting for our quarterly statement for the second quarter.

We both are blessed to have retirement accounts with the University, we took a bath in 2007-2008 during the Bush mess, it has recovered since then, but I expect it to go down the tubes again with this moron running things.

[Johnny2X2X]

58. 60-40 split

My 401K is usually at 80-20, securities vs Bond indexes. It's 60-40 right now to mitigate what I see as a risky market.

[redstatebluegirl]

59. That is where we are and have been since Trump was elected.

[OnlinePoker]

57. Right now, the only stock in the DJIA that's positive is McDonald's

I guess investors figure that will be the only place anyone will be able to afford to eat at when the economy is destroyed by Trump.

[MadDAsHell]

61. With all due respect, "crashing" is hyperbolic nonsense. A 1% drop is not "crashing."

We can call out Trump's bullshit without posting our own sensational BS just for clicks and reccs.