M. Nance, The President of the United States may have committed treason

[Botany]

#IMPEACHTRUMPNOW TRENDS ON TWITTER: AMERICANS SAY PRESIDENT COMMITTED 'TREASON' BY SAYING HE WOULD TAKE FOREIGN INFORMATION ON 2020 RIVALS

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-2020-election-foreign-intel-treason-1443762

Twitter was alight on Thursday morning with calls to "impeach Trump now." Americans were accusing President Donald Trump of treason after saying in a television interview that he would be willing to take foreign information on a rival in the upcoming 2020 election.

"TREASON," Dena Grayson, a former Democratic candidate for U.S. Congress, wrote in a tweet sharing a clip of the interview.

"This is treason in broad daylight," another social media user added, before calling on Democrats Senator Chuck Schumer and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to "do your job" and "#ImpeachTrumpNow."

Despite facing widespread calls from Democrats to start impeachment proceedings against Trump, Pelosi said on Tuesday that the push to launch the process is "not even close" to having enough support in the House.

*****

Nancy P. now is the time. End of story. Trump all but admitted that he took Russian help in 2016.

[Pachamama]

1. Its about fucking time

Impeach the Motherfucker

[malaise]

2. May?

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

ITTMF and Lock him Up!

[ProudLib72]

56. I'm with you, M

So sick of these qualifiers. He committed treason. Everyone in the country heard it. End of story!

[UCmeNdc]

3. Trump sees it as a winning strategy. He used Russian intelligence assets before with no problems...

Why not do it again? No one is holding him accountable so Trump feels free to do it all over again. To him it only matters that you win. How you do it does not matter.

[Lonestarblue]

5. That is true of the entire Republican Party.

Lying, cheating, stealing votes—anything is ok with Republicans and many of their voters so long as they win. Even so-called Christians think the means is okay because of the end result.

[triron]

22. Exactly.

[thesquanderer]

4. I can't see bringing action for being WILLING to commit a crime, better to prove he DID.(nt)

[Mister Ed]

8. Important point.

Treason, legally speaking, is a hanging offense, and no one hangs for shooting off their mouth. This offense can and should "hang" him in the court of public opinion, but nowhere else.

In the meantime, Trump continues to commit offenses in plain view that should land him in jail. Impeach him, try him, convict him and jail him, I say.

[TwilightZone]

14. Treason, legally speaking, also requires a declared enemy.

Which clearly isn't the case in this context.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

19. Here is the definition of treason from Article 3, Section 3 of the Constitution

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

What Trump said he would do may well be criminal, but it isn't treason.

Incidentally, a major reason that the framers of the Constitution were explicit in their definition of treason stemmed from an incident during the reign of Henry VIII of England. One of Henry's political enemies, Lord Montague, was arrested and told the charge was treason. He said, "I have committed no treason." The arresting officer replied, "Treason is what the king says it is." The framers knew their history, and did not want treason to be whatever some governmental official said it was.

[triron]

23. So how is what Trump did not treason according to Art. 3?

Russia attacks our democracy and that is not the action of an enemy?! WTF is an enemy anyway?
So when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor they weren't then our enemy?? The concept of 'declared war'
against Russia is obsolete. A nuclear war that would ensue would destroy civilization. Congress would
be insane to do such a thing.

[Botany]

29. Yup!

When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor we were not in a declared war w/Japan and so
any American that helped Japan in the attack would not be guilty of treason?

[triron]

34. I still stand by my post 23 regarding obsolescence of 'declared war' against Russia.

Nothing like what you suggest happened in 1941 at that time so we don't know the answer.

[Botany]

37. I think a good case can be made that Putin/Russia is in a war with the west right now.

From rigging our elections, to Brexit, to their deals w/Assad of Syria, to the riots in France
Putin is all over the place working to bring down and or weaken us and our allies.

[lagomorph777]

20. There is no (current) option for criminal accountability anyway. Impeachment is needed.

Stating willingness (intention) to commit a crime, and inviting multiple foreign attackers, is plenty of grounds for impeachment, even if not for indictment.

[sop]

26. I see it as more of a confession for past crimes than the "intention" to commit a future crime

Trump openly admits he sees nothing wrong with soliciting and accepting damaging information on his political opponents from Russian government sources, and he would do it (again?) if offered such "opposition research." Knowing how Trump's mind works, I think that's a tacit admission he did it during the 2016 election.

[lagomorph777]

32. I saw it as both things. He blathered on about his whole criminal life,

and said he's not going to quit.

[triron]

35. Yep.

[sop]

38. Trump looked like the Capo di Tutti Capi sneering, "our family don't talk to the feds"

[lagomorph777]

40. That's exactly how I saw it.

He doesn't even seem to realize that to normal people, that kind of speech sounds like a crime boss.

[sop]

42. And on the same day Don Jr. went before Burr's Senate Intelligence Committee

and repeated the same pack of lies about his Trump Tower meeting. Omerta is sacred to the Trump family, it immunizes them from perjury.

[yaesu]

6. he asked russia to help him right on national TV & got away with it

so he will get away with this also. nt

[FailureToCommunicate]

7. AND he clearly telegraphed that we need to be watching NORWAY for that interference!

https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/bzOMHn7bjXTEJCHNzuM2GgxCjBw=/1072x500/filters:focal(1914x1601:1915x1602)/

[Botany]

11. Damn Sami People!

[Baltimike]

9. Baltimike: The Pope may be Catholic. nt

[TwilightZone]

10. It's (still) not treason.

Treason, in the legal sense, requires a declared enemy. Russia is not a declared enemy.

A good look at treason and why it almost never applies. If it didn't apply to the Rosenbergs, it almost certainly doesn't apply here.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/americans-have-forgotten-what-treason-actually-means-how-it-can-ncna848651

[Botany]

12. Russia declared itself as an enemy to America when they attacked our democracy and rigged the ...

... election to install Trump as President.

[TwilightZone]

13. No, they didn't.

It requires an official declaration by the United States. Neither part of that has been satisfied.

It's not complicated. We want it to be treason, but it pretty clearly isn't. That doesn't stop people who should know better (former Congresspeople, for example) from proclaiming it treason anyway.

Facts are stubborn things. - John Adams

[Botany]

15. The Americans who helped Russia's attack are no different then if we had Americans ....

... helping the Japanese in their attack on Pearl Harbor. Both Manafort and Gates passed
along internal polling (really advanced data analytics) to the GRU/FSB with which Russia
used in order to target certain states in order to throw the election to Trump.

[TwilightZone]

58. You're intentionally missing the point.

It requires a declared war. Have we declared war on Russia?

Nope.

End of story.

[Botany]

61. In my fevered brain it makes sense to me and since I am the one I spend the most time with ....

... then I am good with my logic.

[triron]

62. Makes sense to me as well.

[triron]

24. See my post 23 above.

[Perseus]

16. May, may????

How many times are we going to doubt about the buffoon being a traitor?

Why are people afraid to just say it...its easy..."the buffoon is a traitor"..translated..."donald j trump, acting president of the United States of America is a traitor."..."acting"...pun intended.

[Botany]

18. Trump has publicly admitted to knowing about the "Russian help" in 2016

https://ijr.com/trump-says-donald-trump-jr-called-him-before-trump-tower-meeting/

Trump Admits Donald Trump Jr Called Him Before the Trump Tower Meeting With Russian Lawyer

[bdamomma]

17. Impeachment inquiries please

he just admitted it. Or let's all light up the phones in our Senators or Reps offices. McConnell has to go too. After listening to Jon Stewart about the 1st responders I think I have had it.

Fuck, protect the country, the Constitution instead of these thugs ripping to shreds for the Russians.

[Cicada]

21. No. Treason is a war time only crime

We are not at war with Russia. Few know what the US federal crime of treason requires. A traitor must be waging war with the US, real war involving physical violence, or helping someone at war with the US. The word “enemy” in the constitution had a crystal clear meaning when the constitution was written, a group at real war with the US. The Supreme Court has made this clear, so too legal historians. Today the only people in the world who can commit treason are al Qaeda members or those helping them. The Rosenbergs gave a bomb secrets to the USSR but were not charged with treason. Because we were not at war with the USSR.

[triron]

25. See my post 23 above.

[ScratchCat]

28. You can tell every poster

to look at your #23, but it doesn't change the fact that we are not at war with Russia and its not Treason.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

51. it's treason

Putin's Russia is an enemy -- the attacks on our elections are the acts of an enemy -- and Trump has "adhered" and given "aid and comfort" to Putin's government. That's treason as defined by the Constitution.

However, the Constitution gives Congress the power to declare the penalty for treason. The only penalty declared by Congress has a limitation -- it is applied only when treason is committed with an enemy with which we are engaged in acts governed by the rules of war.

The law declaring the penalty for treason as committed by Trump has not been written.

[triron]

52. Yeah it should be even more severe. Like sentencing him to exile in space.

[Cicada]

33. The meaning of enemy as written in the constitution is someone at real war with the US

Enemy for the federal crime of treason requires physical force. The supremes have made that clear. Historians say that is clear.

[triron]

36. OK then the constitution is obsolete on this point. It needs to be amended.

Absurd not to call a hostile foreign power who attacks our democracy an enemy.

[Cicada]

39. Think about why our founders defined treason narrowly

King George iii used charges of treason to suppress popular uprising against him. It is easy to persuade followers of the Governors that those opposing the rulers are enemies of the nation. We see trumpeters make that argument every day. The American rebels wanted the governed to be free to criticize the rulers. Restricting the use of treason charges helped protect rebels from those rulers.

[triron]

46. I honestly don't get the relevancy of your post to the argument I am making. Sorry.

[TwilightZone]

59. Exactly.

Words have meaning. We really should try to use them correctly. Otherwise, we look a bit misinformed.

[triron]

27. knr

[Pluvious]

31. It's time to begin amping up the pressure on the recalcitrant holdouts (nt)

[1democracy]

41. He cheated...

If we can't believe in our elections, we are not a democracy anymore.
He said he will cheat again... so what can be done to stop him?

[Pluvious]

43. There might come a time, when our only hope is...

Cholesterol.

[dalton99a]

44. Kick

[triron]

45. kick for visibility

[triron]

47. kick again

[triron]

48. kick again

[triron]

49. knr

[triron]

50. kick for visibility

[Guilded Lilly]

53. Keeping it kicked.

[triron]

54. +1000

[triron]

55. knr

[triron]

57. kick again

[Kid Berwyn]

60. Trump the Traitor

If he won’t resign, impeach him.