Let me tell you how this will go down.

[kacekwl]

The media seem giddy and the republicans are as happy as pigs in shit regarding the build up for war with Iran. The media with their Breaking News flashes treat possible war like it's no big deal that kids will be killed and the possibility of other lives lost. The Republicans of course love war and the military war complex who fund campaigns and boost their stock portfolio. So while trump makes aggressive moves against Iran it won't be long now. Meanwhile the Democratic party allows trump and McConnell to move along meerly along disregarding the law as they see fit. No impeachment hearings, no Mueller testimony etc. Wait until we have a solid case against trump before we move forward. If they cannot put together a case for at least starting impeachment hearings and start issuing subpoenas after 3 years of law breaking in more ways than can be counted then when will they? The war will begin , everyone will forget Mueller and whatever else and off we go to a wartime president going into 2020. I hope I'm wrong but I've seen this movie many times before. Time and patience is not our friend this time.

[orangecrush]

1. But, somebody said something!

Never underestimate the power of words!

[onlyadream]

2. I was just saying this very thing.

Seems interesting how within a week “Iran” bombs tankers and then they shoot down a drone. I’d bet it was in their air space.
Factor in Projection Don the Con tweeting about Obama starting a war with Iran to win an election, in 2012,, and I think it’s pretty clear.

[lunatica]

12. Have we seen photos of a drone that was shot down?

Because if we haven’t then maybe it didn’t happen.

Lying has worked really well for Trump, so why not continue a sure thing?

[Voltaire2]

17. Iran is not challenging that there was a drone shot down.

In fact they are going to the UN to provide evidence that they shot it down in their air space.

[rlegro]

22. I think it's likely

...that this drone was operating like today's version of the U-2, a high-altitude, supposedly invulnerable craft that was mostly in international waters but performing a series of parries and thrusts into Iranian airspace to test that country's defenses. Which testing is what our military conduct in earnest when they are preparing for a possible war. The Russians do the same thing -- except we don't shoot them down when they crowd our territory or buzz or ships and planes. With respect to the U-2 comparison, note that when that spycraft regularly traversed USSR airspace, the Russians tried over and over to shoot down those planes. And succeeded in downing the one piloted by Francis Gary Powers. So a big difference is that while back in the '60s an isolated attack on our aircraft didn't provoke a military strike in return, today the destruction of an unmanned drone has the White House ready to do just that. Finally, I suppose that in becoming more tendentious in the gulf and along Iranian airspace, the Trump maladministration is actively trying to provoke conflict. Just as the US did in the Gulf of Tonkin and elsewhere decades ago.

[Alwaysna]

31. Will a picture drawn with crayons by donnie do?

[Sherman A1]

3. Perhaps

Perhaps Not....

[Hoyt]

4. I guarantee if an Iranian drone got within a couple hundred miles of our country, we'd shoot

it down, international waters or not. Time we stop bullying the world, often only for political show.

I don’t blame any country for wanting nukes. We never would have invaded Iraq if they’d actually had WMDs. Hell, they didn’t even have a navy or air force to speak of. The army broke and ran from the start.

[kacekwl]

7. Flying drones over / near Iran is

just a aggressive move . We can get all spying done from satellites without irritating anyone.

[customerserviceguy]

30. Yes, it was a ploy

Sure, we lost an expensive toy, but no service members got hurt or killed. It is part of a scheme to get the rest of the world to keep applying the sanctions. Clearly, if Iran is getting desperate, the sanctions are working.

[Nitram]

36. "International territory" within the Straights of Hormuz is extremely narrow. anyplace in there is

"near to Iran." Look at a map.

[kacekwl]

37. Not my point.

[Nitram]

38. It should be. Look at a map.

[FBaggins]

40. "International territory" in this case just means "outside of Iranian airspace"

Oman and the UAE don't restrict US use of their airspace for missions supporting keeping the straights open.

[malaise]

9. Time we stop bullying the world, often only for political show.

And often to sell weapons, loot resources or capture prime real estate areas to create new playgrounds for rich folks.

[raccoon]

15. This must be repeated:

I don’t blame any country for wanting nukes. We never would have invaded Iraq if they’d actually had WMDs.

[walkingman]

5. I don't believe a thing from the Trump Administration. The noose is tightening, BEWARE!!

[Brainfodder]

23. Without transparency, how can they be trusted?

(R) currently stands for ROTTEN to far too many.

Alas, we still have to live with these poorly informed people.

[sop]

6. Corporate media will go into their "Wartime Commander in Chief" mode

That's the time when no president can be criticized in any way during a war, and must be given total deference and the "benefit of the doubt" whenever he makes a decision about anything, including domestic policy. They did it with Bush, and now they'll turn this imbecile into a "War President." It will be Trumo's greatest reality show role.

[BSdetect]

10. Sadly they will exploit the reverence for the presidency to the hilt.

trump may appear entirely cloaked in the flag soon.

[Ilsa]

11. Maybe the media won't be so giddy if Iran's Cyber Army

takes down our electrical grids or shuts off tv media. I fully believe Iran is capable of doing that to us if they believe their backs are against the wall with harsh sanctions or threats of conventional warfare.

[rlegro]

21. Iran is quite formidable in the cyberwarfare context

And there likely is not a whole lot the US could do in the short run at this point to neutralize that threat. Only be on watch for it and keep moving as fast as we can to fortify those networks. Which isn't as fast as it needs to be. In the trump-o-verse, that ship has sailed, and it actual left port years ago. The utility industry dithered and Republicans in Congress were complacent if not complicit. Not that Democrats except for a handful were treating all this as a crisis. The only question is whether in the current context Iran, China, and Russia -- all powers with cyberwarefare operations -- would take public credit. The big picture is that trump "policy" encourages this sort of mischief. We already know Election 2020 interference is sure to happen but the Trump administration and McConnell are willfully blissful.

[Ilsa]

25. Nitro Zeus

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitro_Zeus

If it is real, we already have viruses planted in Iran's critical infrastructure, or perhaps SCADA. Nitro Zeus is the name of the software developed by our NSA and Cyber Command after Israel screwed us over on STUXNET.

The bad news is that either nation using this stuff is about as bad as setting off bombs in cities. Power grids, etc, aren't just a thing to be switched back on after getting hacked. The time it would take to recover would likely cost tens of thousands of lives.

And then there is the international problems with Russia and China. Geez, it would be horrible.

If you get a chance to watch Zero Days, do it. The story can't be conformed by our govt, but we are the reason Iran has a strong cyber warfare army.

[trev]

27. Doesn't Russia have a pact with Iran?

They certainly could take down our grids.

[Ilsa]

28. Iran could too, and the US

has supposedly already infiltrated Iran's key systems. See my reply to the other reply regarding Nitro Zeus. We are the reason Iran jacked up their cyber army.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12208812

[Grey]

13. I keep saying it was a tanker from Japan with a flag

of convenience. Is this not a thing for those countries to work out..?

[wiggs]

14. Why aren't congresspersons talking about congressional authorization? nt

[Baltimike]

16. "Democratic party *ALLOWS* MF45 (sic) and Moscow Mitch (sic)...disregarding law as they see fit"

is bullshit, and you should very well know it

[McKim]

18. This is America's Worst Moment!

Dems must not allow this to continue. We must pull back from all aggressive wars. Personally I don’t care if Russia or China has more power. I would be happy if we just were a country like any other. I am tired of paying for foreign adventures while here we have homelessness and hunger. 40% of kids in my city’s public schools are on free lunch. What is wrong with this picture?

I visited Iran in 2008 it is a modern country with friendly people and a scientific outlook. We have much in common with them. We could be selling them air conditioners and fridges, but no, someone has to have competition, hate and war! Enough!!!!!

[Pluvious]

19. correction

Last edited Fri Jun 21, 2019, 03:58 PM - Edit history (2)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore#Recount_by_media_organizations

[StarfishSaver]

24. ?

The 9/11 attacks had nothing to do with the recount.

The recount was completed and certified a full eight months before 9/11

[Cetacea]

34. This

https://www.occupy.com/article/democrats-should-remember-al-gore-won-florida-2000-lost-presidency-with-preemptive-surrender#sthash.CWHzL1Z4.dpbs

"NORC found that with a full statewide hand recount, Gore would have won Florida under every possible vote standard. Depending on which standard was used, his margin of victory would have varied from 60 to 171 votes.

The recount was paid for by a consortium of news outlets — CNN, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Tribune Company, the Washington Post, the Associated Press, the St. Petersburg Times, and the Palm Beach Post. But this was just two months after the September 11 terrorist attacks. The outlets patriotically buried the blockbuster news that George W. Bush was not the legitimate president of the United States.

For instance, the headline of the New York Times article on the recount was “Study of Disputed Florida Ballots Finds Justices Did Not Cast the Deciding Vote.” This was technically true — since Gore’s legal team had not demanded a full recount of the state — and it was shamelessly misleading. But even Gore himself had no interest in making an issue about what had really happened. Asked for comment by the Washington Post, Gore would say only that “the presidential election of 2000 is over.”

[Codeine]

26. Not accurate. nt

[rlegro]

20. Well said. However...

The House Dems have issued a number of subpoenas. And the latest one (in line) is to Felix Sater. And it's clear (most recently in the Hope Hicks appearance) that Nadler is busy building a record of White House obstruction so that the Dems have the best chance of prevailing in the courts.

[brooklynite]

29. Please provide examples of "giddy".

[YOHABLO]

32. "The war will begin, everyone will forget Mueller and whatever else.." And Trump is counting on it!

I'm becoming totally disgusted with this investigation and how Nadler and Pelosi are handling it. Why is it when there is damning evidence, times over, in the Mueller report for impeachment, that we are constantly being mealy-mouthed by Nadler and Pelosi? We're tired, we're worn out, and now this moron wants to start a war to obfuscate his incompetence and crimes.

And you are right KACEKWL, if an attack on Iran does happen, media will drop every single thing they've been covering on this investigation of Trump, Russia, ICE, the boarder, and recent rape allegations.

[Nitram]

33. The mainstream media is anxious and worried - not giddy. I don't know what qualifies as media to

Last edited Sun Jun 23, 2019, 09:49 PM - Edit history (1)

you, kacekwl, but the media where I get my news is cautioning Trump to step back and work with allies to find a diplomatic solution. Exactly which media outlets are you referring to?

[Cetacea]

35. K&R

.

[WiffenPoof]

39. I think you're right on...

You nailed it exactly as it will happen.