Everyone please keep calling them concentration camps. Not only is it true,

[ProfessorPlum]

but it drives evil people crazy.

If you must discuss it, tell people we will stop calling them concentration camps when the GOP stops saying "Democrat politician".

[obamanut2012]

1. K & r!

[duforsure]

2. And death camps

And it won't be long before more deaths get exposed in them.

[TreasonousBastard]

3. C'mon. "Concentration Camp" has a definition, but "death camp" has...

another one.

Nobody is deliberately sent to these camps to die.

[ProfessorPlum]

4. they just won't make much if any effort to keep them alive

agreed, though, death camps are for places specifically set up for mass executions, not death by neglect.

[DemocracyMouse]

11. Doesn't everyone see what Trump and Miller and Hannity, etc, are doing?

The neglect in those camps is intended to inflict suffering – emotional and physical suffering. They are now documented to have set the conditions for sickness, rape and death. And since nothing significant has been done to change the conditions in those, yes, concentration camps, they are de facto death camps. It is a form of power that circumvents traditional democratic feedback systems.

De facto death and rape and disease is, by definition a fact.

We are sponsoring rape, disease and death camps. And we are all complicit.

No more fucking Monday Night Football. Every free night we have should be dedicated to protest, letter writing, and phone calls to congress.

THE US IS CREATING DEATH CAMPS.

THE US IS TRAINING ICE TO ACCEPT FASCISM AS ITS NEW CULTURE.

THE POLICE ARE ON THE FENCE, BUT MANY EMBRACE THE MODALITY — THE HAIRCUTS, THE ALARMING ANTI-CITIZEN MACHISMO, THE AMPED UP FLASHING CRUISER LIGHTS.

AND NO SIGNIFICANT PUSHBACK HAS HAPPENED.

(Wake up, please.)

[bdamomma]

39. I would love to

see Miller and the rest in cages.

[bigbrother05]

17. Hey it's just branding, remember the ACA "death panels"?

Is there a smilie for abject disgust?

Many are deliberately sent to these camps, the GOP doesn't seem to care if they die or have any level of care beyond caging.

Think it's a distinction without a difference to the children that have died. Hey, HHS is just following orders.

[TreasonousBastard]

20. That is the point-- people are not sent there to die, but...

those in charge just don't care if they live or die.

And that makes little difference to the dead and suffering.

[Volaris]

52. Only Trump can 'prove' that as true or not..and more and more, I would bet his internal monolouge,

If pressed, would be

'YOURE GODDAMN RIGHT I ORDERED THE CODE RED!'

[unblock]

5. i'm looking for a bit more than just a grammatical concession....

i'll keep calling them concentration camps until they aren't.

i know what you meant, but the democrat/democratic thing pales in comparison.

[ProfessorPlum]

8. I agree - it only highlights that they won't ever stop using a term _incorrectly_

so why should we stop using a term correctly.

I agree, the issues are not even close to the same level of importance.

[sop]

18. Yeah, that silly "democrat party" thing pales in comparison to children in concentration camps

Many who object to the term "concentration camp" view it as an offensive cultural misappropriation, as if "concentration camp" can only refer to the WWII era holocaust in Nazi Germany. Not to lessen the seriousness of the Jewish experience, but I'll always refer to these facilities as "concentration camps" because that's what they are.

[Volaris]

55. I think it doesn't , actually...

In both cases, it's about a denigration and verbal abuse regarding what they precieve as 'the other'.

The two are linked, in their minds, and we would do well not to forget that..

[unblock]

60. i see your point, but disagree as to magnitude.

in any event, the o.p. was phrased as a deal.

would you really stop calling them concentration camps if they actually agreed to stop calling our candidates "democrat politicians"?

i don't care how othering not calling them "democratic politicians" is, i'm not going to give them any ground to keep operating concentration camps, and i'm not going to let them get away with dismissing rhetoric about it, and i certainly wouldn't accept any concessions elsewhere to allow them to keep operating concentration camps.

[Volaris]

61. I agree with you , that the magnitude is different.

I'm not willing to give them any ground (or a deal) either, these ARE concentration camps.

But we need to be aware, I think , that to them, if they had their way, there's not much difference in their minds between Brown Children , and 'democrat" politicians ...

And we need to be willing to call them out on the connection they want to make.

[awesomerwb1]

6. I have been using that name on social media

And I won't stop.

[Wounded Bear]

7. Agreed, some well deserved payback...

for their relentless grammatical assaults of the past few decades.

[sop]

21. Perhaps they should stop saying "death tax" when they talk about inheritance taxes,

or complaining about Obamacare "death panels."

[CanonRay]

9. I just sent a letter to the editor of the local paper

calling them exactly that. I expect to get a lot of flack from the local Brownshirts.

[Celerity]

10. Whilst I tend to brook no truck with people who attacked AOC for her use of concentration camps (as

I found those types to be a priori overtly hostile to her anyway, for a wide variety of underlying and disparate reasons and agendas), I myself would prefer to use the term internment camps or detention camps, especially internment camps, as that has a direct American historical antecedent.

[Saviolo]

19. Internment Camps were Concentration Camps

They were just rebranded to try and separate the horror of what they were doing from the horror they were fighting in Europe. It was basically a marketing strategy to make the US population less wary about seizing the property, homes, farms, etc... from citizens, and putting them all into concentration camps.

[Celerity]

24. that is a valid point as well

[atreides1]

22. I respectfully disagree with you

Internment Camps: a prison camp for the confinement of enemy aliens, prisoners of war, political prisoners, etc.


Concentration Camps: a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution.

Those children are not enemy aliens, POWs, or political prisoners...they are members of a persecuted minority who have been deliberately imprisoned in a small area with inadequate facilities!

On the bright side they are not going to be used as forced labor nor are they awaiting mass execution...so far!!!

[Celerity]

23. I am fine with the use of concentration camps to describe them, I just personally prefer other

terminology, but I totally understand your point.

They are EVIL as fuck no matter what they are called.

[Volaris]

56. Oh, I would submit to you that those kids are absolutely political prisoners...

You really think if Hillary were president they would be there ?

Not if Congress had declared war on all of Central America, would this be happening if Hillary were president.

They're political prisoners.

[obamanut2012]

33. Those internment camps WERE concentration camps

Good lord, the parsing to not call these things what they are.

[bluedigger]

12. Trump camps works for me.

[sprinkleeninow]

51. TRUMP CONCENTRATION CAMPS. (no text follows)

[ehrnst]

13. Some of our POTUS nominees need to be informed of this.

Link to tweet

'No I have not used that word," Sanders said in the interview. "I didn’t use that terminology. And again, I have a lot of respect for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez; she's doing a fantastic job," Sanders said. "But what I will tell you is that we are locking up children in deplorable conditions and we are keeping kids there for weeks in places that are not meant for kids. "

[DemocracyMouse]

14. Sorry to post this twice, but I'm sick to my stomach about the cruelty inflicted on those children

The neglect in those camps is intended to inflict suffering – emotional and physical suffering. They are now documented to have set the conditions for sickness, rape and death. And since nothing significant has been done to change the conditions in those, yes, concentration camps, they are de facto death camps. It is a form of power that circumvents traditional democratic feedback systems.

De facto death and rape and disease is, by definition a fact. We are sponsoring rape, disease and death camps. And we are all complicit.

No more fucking Monday Night Football. Every free night we have should be dedicated to protest, letter writing, and phone calls to congress.

THE US IS CREATING DEATH CAMPS.

THE US IS TRAINING ICE TO ACCEPT FASCISM AS ITS NEW CULTURE.

THE POLICE ARE ON THE FENCE, BUT MANY EMBRACE THE MODALITY — THE HAIRCUTS, THE ALARMING ANTI-CITIZEN MACHISMO, THE AMPED UP FLASHING CRUISER LIGHTS.

AND NO SIGNIFICANT PUSHBACK HAS HAPPENED.

(Wake up, please.)

[Tanuki]

49. I'm pretty sure it meets the United Nations definition of torture

https://www.apt.ch/en/what-is-torture/

"Article 1 of the United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment is the internationally agreed legal definition of torture:

"Torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions."

This definition contains three cumulative elements:

the intentional infliction of severe mental or physical sufferingby a public official, who is directly or indirectly involvedfor a specific purpose.

Other international and regional treaties, as well as national laws, can contain broader definitions of torture, covering a wider range of situations."....(more)

[malaise]

15. K & R

for truth

[McKim]

16. They Are Concentration Camps

They are concentration camps. No single group owns this definition. As a retired Bilingual Migrant Teacher I am sickened and outraged by this cruelty. Who is next?

[PatSeg]

25. The debate about what to call these camps

is a distraction. Rather than address the issue, republicans will argue the vocabulary we use. Meanwhile, people, especially children are suffering every day as politicians and TV talking heads discuss what words we use to describe this atrocity. This should not be so much about semantics, but more about our inhumanity.

I personally think "concentration camps" is an appropriate term.

[csziggy]

28. THIS ++++100000000++++++

I don't care what anyone calls them, the Border Patrol holding places are abhorrent and the cruelty and neglect being done there is hurting our country.

We need to STOP this.

Thank you, PatSeg, for cutting to the crux of the matter.

[PatSeg]

42. You're welcome

How many times are we going to fall for the same old right-wing tricks. They've been pushing our buttons for years and we keep reacting. Its important that we stay focused on the issue, not the stupid distractions.

[csziggy]

43. I called my Rep and Senators and told them I don't care what they call them

Whether it is concentration camps, internment camps, holding facilities, or dog pounds - this is no way to treat humans.

My Rep is Democratic, so I am not worried that he will just sit this out - but Marco Rubio and Rick Scott are the Republican Senators here. I not only told them the same thing about how the refugees and children are being held, but included that they need to stop letting Mitch McConnell keeping the Senate from doing anything useful.

[PatSeg]

44. Oh my

You're in Florida! You have my sympathy. Who knows, maybe someday you can get through to them, though I am sure Rick Scott is a lost cause. Maybe, just maybe Rubio might find his soul.

[csziggy]

45. Rubio just has a phone message with a place to record your message

My last comment was "You sometimes say good things, but you don't DO good things!"

Frankly, I think Rubio sold his soul to stay in office. Scott never had one.

Previously I had not bothered to call them, but this issue is far too important to leave then alone.

[PatSeg]

50. I agree

Rubio sold his soul for politics and Rick Scott definitely NEVER had one.

[Liberal In Texas]

31. Good point. I also think concentration camps is appropriate. Because that's what they are.

Repubs like to deflect, and the semantics ouitrage is just that.

[ProfessorPlum]

32. that's exactly what I'm saying

Ignore the phony "debate" and call them what they are. And end them.

Meanwhile, conservatives will cry about it.

[4139]

26. No, you make us look like crackpots morons!

Adding: I grew up outside NYC and on the streets, train and subways in the summer you would see guys and ladies with numbers tattooed on their forearms.

Playing political games with ‘concentration camps’ angers many people including me

[pnwmom]

29. Even the Truman Library calls the Japanese-American camps "concentration camps."

It uses the term internment camp and concentration camp interchangeably.

The Nazis also had death camps and extermination camps -- that's what you're thinking about.

https://www.trumanlibrary.org/dbq/internment.php

In an effort to curb potential Japanese espionage, Executive Order 9066 approved the relocation of Japanese-Americans into internment camps. At first, the relocations were completed on a voluntary basis. Volunteers to relocate were minimal, so the executive order paved the way for forced relocation of Japanese-Americans living on the west coast. During the six months following the issue of EO 9066, over 100,000 Japanese-Americans found themselves placed into concentration camps within the United States. These concentration camps were called “relocation camps.”

[ProfessorPlum]

30. couldn't disagree more

these are camps where we are concentrating a population. Hence the name.

Concentration camps were part of the Holocaust, but not the entirety of the Holocaust. Obviously.

Saying a sandwich contains bread doesn't dishonor the idea of sandwiches.

[obamanut2012]

34. THEY ARE CONCENTRATION CAMPS

You and others are the ones playing "political games."

And, my best friend in grammar school and HS's grandmother lived with them. She had a number. Her ENTIRE family was murdered by the Nazis, so get off your faux moral highground.

[4139]

35. No they are not and you are making all of us look bad.

[ProfessorPlum]

36. You are flaunting your ignorance

Please take five minutes and look up the difference between the terms "Concentration Camps" and "the Holocaust".

what you are saying is the equivalent of saying that we can't call out propaganda because that means we are downplaying the seriousness of the Third Reich. Propaganda, like concentration camps, are a tool of fascists to achieve ends like the holocaust and the third reich.

pointing out tools isn't the same as comparing end points.

AND, by the way, how many people would have to die in OUR camps before you called them "concentration camps"? 6 million? 5 million? 10,000? 100? Is that what you are making your distinction about?

[uponit7771]

48. Please don't sanitize evil actions with softer words. They're TECHNICALLY concentration camps

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

54. To be accurate, they are concentration camps for children.

[uponit7771]

62. +1

[sop]

64. "Concentration Camps" existed years before the Nazi Holocaust

"In 1896, General Weyler of Spain implemented the first wave of the Spanish 'Reconcentracion Policy' that sent thousands of Cubans into concentration camps. Under Weyler's policy, the rural population had eight days to move into designated camps located in fortified towns; any person who failed to obey was shot. The housing in these areas was typically abandoned, decaying, roofless, and virtually unihabitable. Food was scarce and famine and disease quickly swept through the camps. By 1898, one third of Cuba's population had been forcibly sent into the concentration camps. Over 400,000 Cubans died as a result of the Spanish Reconcentration Policy."

The Spanish called them "campos de concentracion." Naturally, American soldiers and journalists during the Spanish American War of 1898 called these places "concentration camps." Jews were not the only group sent to such places. I believe you're taking your cultural misappropriation complaints too far.

[uponit7771]

47. They are text book concentration camps in context

[Eliot Rosewater]

27. Not only that, UN should invade USA and imprison those committing the crimes AND those

who support committing the crimes.

that is about 45 million of us

[tritsofme]

38. Wait...you want to jail 45 million Americans?

[Eliot Rosewater]

65. Accessories to crimes go to jail too

[tritsofme]

66. I guess the right doesn't have a monopoly on authoritarian delusions...

[bdamomma]

40. I wish the

the International Criminal Court in the Hague would imprison tRump and his goons.

[brush]

37. Pls stick with internment or detention camps. I've heard it reported...

that our Jewish brothers and sister feel calling them concentration camps diminishes the horror of the Holocaust.

[emmaverybo]

58. I thought that feeling would be universal. It isn't. One of my Jewish American groups not offended.

However, you are right. Some here at DU express exactly what you heard reported.

[Volaris]

59. These aren't Death Camps (yet). And I do not want them to become that .

[Initech]

41. They love making Nazi comparisons, until people start calling them Nazis.

What goes around comes around!

[Gothmog]

46. The camps clearly qualify as concentration camps

[bdamomma]

53. Watch Lawrence

O'Donnell, these crimes against humanity are being done in our name.

We have got to stop this, this needs to stay in the forefront. Let's be loud and call our Reps, we don't treat children like this, like animals

Does anyone think this wouldn't happen to us??? tRump is calling his base that Democrats are evil people and want to take things away from them, what does this sound like?? a vile POS who will reek madness and mayhem to stay in power.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

57. I Said This A Year Ago: You HAVE To Put Trump's Name On Them

Make him own them. Call them "Trumpvilles," or "Trump Tent City," or anything that will tie him irrevocably to them.

[delisen]

63. I think Concentration Camp is Accurate

I believe that the time is upon us for making the the connection openly and not seeking euphemisms or substitutes.

We are at a crossroad, a decision point, and we need to make a stand here for human rights. We have been at such crossroads before and how we deal early on can influence the course of events for good or for evil.

Whether migrants, refugees, or asylum-seekers-we and other countries as well as international organizations are projecting vastly greater numbers of seeking shelter as climate change, with displacement, scarcity, and corruption, all negatively, affecting living conditions and rule of law around the globe.

We have a sad history in the US of placing children in total institutions where they have been treated with immense cruelty and neglect. We also a history of positive caring for children, of seeing them as individuals worthy of care and love.

We cannot depend upon our current administration to suddenly change direction and become humanitarian regarding children in need. It is going to be up to us to address and debate what is to be done and to set the course for the future. We need the public debate and we can't censor ourselves in the process.


https://www.newsweek.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-concentration-camps-immigrants-detention-centers-southern-border-experts-1445483


Rachel Ida Buff, a professor of American studies who teaches history at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, told Newsweek Ocasio-Cortez was "absolutely" correct to describe U.S. migrant detention centers as concentration camps.

Sociology professor Richard Lachmann at the University at Albany, SUNY, agreed, telling Newsweek: "Concentration camps are any place where large numbers of people are held in poor conditions because of their nationality, ethnicity, religion or other characteristics rather than as individuals convicted of crimes."

Noting the experiences of migrant children in U.S. detention centers—some of whom are set to be housed at Fort Sill, a site that held Japanese Americans and Native Americans before them, back in the 20th century—Buff said: "The trauma these children are suffering threatens to disable a generation."

"All asylum seekers crossing into the United States are placed in 'hileras,' cells chilled to 50-55 degrees. They are stripped of warm clothing. Many get sick; several have died. This is torture and life endangerment," she added.