Will you be able to forgive?

[onecaliberal]

There is zero chance that I could ever forgive people who support locking children and adults in cages in the most inhumane of circumstances. People are dead! The fake, pro life, bullshit spewing posers acting as though they give two shits about life when the opposite is what they clearly demonstrate. I am so overwhelmingly distraught about the trumpcamps.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

1. No I will not forgive.

They didn't listen to us in 2016. We saw bad things that he would do, granted we didn't see the horror at the Border.

They have not stepped up to say what he is doing is wrong. They are backing him.

So they don't deserve forgiveness.

[rownesheck]

2. Me neither.

I don't care who they are. Trump supporters have revealed themselves to be vile, disgusting, evil fucks. To me, they aren't even human or worthy of forgiveness. May they all suffer terribly in the coming years. They want hate. I'll give them hate. They've earned it.

[sprinkleeninow]

3. ...

Rio Grande Valley— "President Trump is pushing back against reports that migrants are being subjected to horrible conditions in detention centers at the U.S.-Mexico border. On Wednesday afternoon, he tweeted, "many of these illegal aliens are living far better now than where they came from,"

[onecaliberal]

18. I despise that soulless fuck with the intesity of a million white hot suns.

[mnhtnbb]

66. Did Barbara Bush whisper that in his ear from beyond the grave?

One can only hope he will join her soon. As soon as possible.

[sprinkleeninow]

75. Yes, that came to mind when I posted.

Who can forget her comments when touring the Houston Astrodome complex after Katrina where evacuees were being housed: “What I’m hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas. And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway so this is working very well for them.”

[Attribution: The Mercury News

[lunasun]

77. yes I remember the Katrina reference

nasty

[Skittles]

4. no

I will never forgive anyone who helped to inflict that fascist bastard on my beloved country - never

[KY_EnviroGuy]

5. These atrocities must remain an albatross hung around the neck of...

every single person identifying themselves as Republican for the rest of time.

It's highly symbolic of the right-wing mindset peppered with selfishness, greed, cold-heartedness and xenophobia we've seen in the GOP for all our lives (for me, since Nixon) and they must be shamed at every opportunity, including the "churches" that support them.

The psychopathy that drives these waves of right-wing atrocity will never disappear but we must eventually place them where they belong: in mental health treatment rather than in public office.

Forgiveness in the heart must be an individual decision, but those who have committed crimes against refugees and immigrants must face justice.

We must work hard to see that new laws and regulations are in place to prevent these actions ever happening again.

KY........

[pazzyanne]

15. "We must work hard to see that new laws and regulations are in place...

to prevent these actions ever happening again."

Yes, we can! We have worked hard before, and we must work harder than ever now. Our freedom depends on it!

[onecaliberal]

19. My biggest fear is the perpetrators walk, for everything.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

34. After Iraq, my only ray of sunshine regarding that at this time is....

watchdog organizations with teeth such as the ACLU, SPLC, etc.

I do hope our House of Representatives committees attack this issue with due speed, but they have so much on their platter at this time relating to tRump malfeasance it's frightening.

Soooo much crime and so many GOP criminals.......

[onecaliberal]

36. They've appointed so many terrible people to the courts, it's a matter of time until they no longer

Hold the line.

[old guy]

41. My fear as well.

[TruckFump]

6. I will NEVER forgive nor forget.

Fuck those monsters.

[Fyrefox]

7. Monsters among us

It's often said that what makes monsters especially terrifying is that they look just like the rest of us. I will never again regard my fellow countrymen in the same way knowing that about a third of them saw their way clear to vote for Donald Trump, and that they were able to exploit the electoral college system to install an ill-advised, unqualified, extremist minority president. I can forgive conditionally, but I will never forget.

[LuckyCharms]

8. Nope. History will not be kind to Trump.

And I plan on remaining on the right side of history.

Some things cannot be forgiven.

I'll HATE him and his supporters forever.

And to those in my real life who tell me that I need to forgive, and that hate hurts only me, and that everyone deserves forgiveness...well, I've tried that route, and it is just not who I am. In the end, you must be true to who you are, because everything else is just noise.

[3catwoman3]

53. While I might intellectually understand the theoretical...

...importance of forgiveness (it takes away whatever power the hatred was having over you, etc, etc), I think there are times when it is just asking too muchof all but the most exceptional of human beings.

We have 2 sons. Were someone to intentionally kill either one of them, there would be no possibility of me being able to forgive them.

[JPPaverage]

9. No. These fuckers are beyond redmption

As a matter of fact, they should thank their lucky stars that I will never be on charge because I'd lock the alleged "pro lifers" on closets, about ten to a cell with toilet water and little else. An eye for an eye.

[pecosbob]

10. I consider the birth of the Tea Party the Republican voter's crossing of the Rubicon

In my mind they became unredeemable at that point. I don't blame most Republican voters for Nixon, or for Reagan, or even the Bushes. I blame the one percent for most of that crap. But I do blame all Republican voters for the current Orwellian administration and every wart they brought with them.

[pazzyanne]

20. I thought that at the beginning of the Tea Party, and still do today.

Never will I forget the hateful Tea Party signs and slogans of 2009. Today we have the Freedom Caucus carrying on the torch. These are despicable human beings.

[onecaliberal]

21. I agree, that's when republicans unleashed the hate that was just beneath the surface

For these soulless MAGAts. We have given them inch after inch, each time they took it miles. I no longer recognize this country.

[bdamomma]

11. No

I will never forgive them and those who worship this POS, and those who are not saying shit especially the Repigs, and brainwashing Fox noise.

How dare they ruin the greatest country for their greed just a bunch of criminal thugs. Those who have not seen Active Measures should watch it.

Trailer:

[bluestarone]

12. NO never forgive!

Never forget. I want to remember forever what these bastards did to our country! Born in 47 and i believe i lived through the BEST times and now THE WORST TIMES!!!

[Roy Rolling]

13. Forgiveness

Forgiveness is only bestowed upon someone who has ceased their evil actions and has repented and apologized for their “sins”.

These people have done neither. The opposite, they are proud to be called deplorable.

Those who can be “saved” will protest and/or leave their paid employment—-it’s a tough choice, but they must make a choice. Those who choose to stay deserve no forgiveness, they knowingly inflict suffering on others for a paycheck.

When we become ideological slaves to a paycheck then the streets become violent.

[JustThinking...]

30. Well said.

"Forgiveness is only bestowed upon someone who has ceased their evil actions and has repented and apologized for their “sins”."

I have always believed forgiveness is only possible when there is remorse, without that remorse it is not forgiveness, it is permission.

[3catwoman3]

54. Thank you for this perspective.

To forgive just so I could think of myself as noble and enlightened is beyond my capabilities.

[58Sunliner]

14. Funny-Saw the headline and I thought about my mother first-nope-no forgiveness.

Have the repukes called them fake pictures yet?

[lpbk2713]

16. Fuck no. These people are sub human.

And therefore are not worthy of pity or forgiveness.

Those are human sentiments.

[Demsrule86]

17. I agree...and I can't forgive the Jill Stein types and JPR types who made this possible by working

to help elect Trump.

[Martin Eden]

22. It is not my place to forgive atrocities committed against these immigrants.

Only they and their families are entitled to do that.

As to whether I can personally forgive a Trumper for the role he or she played in what this POtuS is doing to our country, I think that would require a sincere apology along with asking forgiveness.

[onecaliberal]

23. I guess I'm really talking about the Republican Party and how they have allowed democracy to burn

down. The hate they’ve unleashed. Some of us have MAGAt relatives.

[Martin Eden]

25. I struggle with that.

The agents of hatred succeed on a certain level when they fill others with hate. Vlad Putin wanted Trump in the White House for many reasons, not the least of which is to inflame and widen the bitter divisions tearing Americans (and by extension our country) apart.

For the good of our country and the future of the world we live in, today's Republican Party needs to be overwhelmingly defeated in elections at every level of government. Only then can American conservatism regain whatever legitimate value it once possessed.

For the good of our country, the bitter divisions must be healed. We don't have to forgive our unrepentant MAGA relatives, but that doesn't mean we can't make an effort to treat everyone with some kindness. That doesn't mean accepting or indulging or enabling the manifestations of ignorance, fear, and hatred -- but indulging our own anger and resentment accomplishes nothing good. If the relationship is abusive, do not feed it.

That last line reminded me of this:

An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy. “It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.”

He continued, “The other is good – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.”

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”

The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”

[DinahMoeHum]

24. In this matter, only G@d forgives. . .I don't.

[RHMerriman]

26. No.

This is hung around the GOP's necks from now until Doomsday.

[FakeNoose]

27. I believe this is going to be the end of the Republican Party

... these 'Pukes are all going down along with their leader. History won't be kind to them, why should we?

[onecaliberal]

29. I hope you're right.

[Ilsa]

28. I won't forget. I won't forgive until every single

person who was despicably wronged forgives them or has been given justice.

[Freedomofspeech]

31. I will never forgive...

Anyone who supported trump. I have already written them off and they will never be welcome in my home or heart.

[obamanut2012]

32. Never -- they are sociopaths

Who would have been "Good Germans" who knew NOTHING! NOTHING! after the war, even as the smell of burning flesh wafted through their towns.

[Catch2.2]

33. This brings up a good point....

I fear that if a Democrat is elected in 2020. The Dems will be scared to go after Trump and his cronies fearing people will look at it as purely retaliation. Instead, Dems will say "We are in power now, it is time to move on and repair this country. Going after Trump is not our goal."
I feel it is up to us to make sure Trump and his cronies get prosecuted to at the very least, send a message that this can never happen again!

[onecaliberal]

37. It is not about trump or even republicans.

We are either a nation of laws or we are a banana republic.

[Bettie]

44. And we CAN NOT let that happen

the fact that W's group got away with everything made this horror show possible.

We can not let utter disregard for the law stand or we're asking for worse next time around.

[Catch2.2]

62. Agree 100%

Exactly!

[old guy]

35. Never.

[Brawndo]

38. No. Some things you don't do because there's no coming back from it...ever.

They have purpose insofar as to serve as a warning of how not to be for future generations.

[Paladin]

39. Not a chance. (nt)

[The Liberal Lion]

40. Never!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

42. Forgiveness is for health of forgiver. Person forgiven need not know & can still be tried & jailed.

[Tiggeroshii]

43. I can't and I won't.

There will be hell to pay for what they are doing to these families, children and infants. Fuck all of those disingenuous fascists to damn hell.

[GulfCoast66]

45. I will if they admit how wrong they were.

Forget, never.

Sorry. Way I was raised.

Even though I am a freethinker, I believe people can redeem themselves.

Not any kind of Heaven Supernatural shit. But here in life.

[sarge43]

46. Won't forget; won't forgive. n/t

[BigDemVoter]

47. I don't think it's my place to forgive.

In any case, I cannot.

Future generations will blame ALL of us for Pussy Grabber's actions & will wonder why we didn't stop him. It won't matter that we couldn't or that we tried. . .

[onecaliberal]

48. That's a great point. Part of the horror of it all is that we know what's right, but we cannot

Compel anyone to act on putting an end to this shit show.

[FiveGoodMen]

49. Won't be able to ... won't try.

[Honeycombe8]

50. The images will fade. People will forget. Time will dull the outrage.

But I won't forget, just like millions of others. And I certainly won't forgive...I'd consider it if they ask for forgiveness. But they won't. This was intentional...the deliberate cruelty and inhumane treatment of people, including children.

[no_hypocrisy]

51. Never

[Xipe Totec]

52. Forgive? Never forgive! Only pretend to forgive

Smile at your enemy
Gain his trust
Only then can you plunge
your blade into his chest

- Excerpt from poem in Aztec Autumn
Gary Jennings 2007

(Recalled from memory)

[durablend]

55. Nope

Because even if you accept their "apology" they'd have no hesitation to kick you in the nuts again. None whatsoever.

[Buzz cook]

56. Perhaps a truth and reconciliation commission

As there was in South Africa. Perhaps if there is restitution, propitiation of these acts.

Or perhaps a Nuremberg type trial with appropriate prison terms.

[RainCaster]

57. Might forgive, will NEVER forget

[dchill]

58. Not.

[Fiendish Thingy]

59. Nuremberg trials for everyone

Right down to the " Good Germans", contractors who were "just following orders"

[onecaliberal]

60. Yes that's what I'm talking about.

[CaptainTruth]

61. Can I forgive Nazis? No. Never.

[vlyons]

63. yes I can forgive them

for their ignorance and hatred and greed. But justice is also a virtue. They need to be fired and never get another gov job. Plus they need to be prosecuted and convicted of child abuse.

[samplegirl]

64. No but mostly

because of words said by friends and family!

[scarytomcat]

65. no I can not

I am so troubled by people that are gleeful that children are tortured and treated this way

[mountain grammy]

67. But,that's what we do.. a bit dated, but still relevent Bob Dylan's "With God On Our Side."

Oh my name it ain't nothin'
My age it means less
The country I come from
Is called the Midwest
I was taught and brought up there
The laws to abide
And that land that I live in
Has God on its side

Oh, the history books tell it
They tell it so well
The cavalries charged
The Indians fell
The cavalries charged
The Indians died
Oh, the country was young
With God on its side

The Spanish-American
War had its day
And the Civil War, too
Was soon laid away
And the names of the heroes
I was made to memorize
With guns in their hands
And God on their side

The First World War, boys
It came and it went
The reason for fighting
I never did get
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don't count the dead
When God's on your side

The Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And then we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Germans now, too
Have God on their side

I've learned to hate the Russians
All through my whole life
If another war comes
It's them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on my side

But now we got weapons
Of chemical dust
If fire them, we're forced to
Then fire, them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God's on your side

Through many a dark hour
I've been thinkin' about this
That Jesus Christ was
Betrayed by a kiss
But I can't think for you
You'll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot
Had God on his side.

So now as I'm leavin'
I'm weary as Hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
That if God's on our side
He'll stop the next war

[B Stieg]

68. Nyet...

for obvious reasons.

[ellie]

69. No

Never.

[yaesu]

70. on record as I will never forgive, tRumpsters are dead to me. nt

[onecaliberal]

71. You're in great company.

These soulless bastards possess zero redeeming qualities.

[cvoogt]

72. No.

what would be the point?

[onecaliberal]

73. Something I've noticed especially since the torture story started emerging from the trump camps.

The media couldn’t care less. Haven’t really seen anyone remotely bothered by it.

[Captain Zero]

74. Will they ask forgiveness?

And promise to never do this again??

[SeattleVet]

76. Short answer: No. Longer answer:

Fuck no.

[dewsgirl]

78. Not in a million years.

[maxrandb]

79. Here's what I will NEVER forgive

I will NEVER forgive Donnie Shit for Brains moron voters for requiring me to take seriously, a bunch of ignorant fucksticks that I know deep in my soul, should never be taken seriously .

I will NEVER forgive them for making moronic dickwads, that I know with a crystaline certainty, should be the most insignificant pricks we ever encounter in our lives, somehow significant.

That I will NEVER forgive!

[onecaliberal]

80. Hear, hear

[jcmaine72]

81. I'm so tired of feeling angry all the time.

It's just a shitty way to have to go through your day, and this administration and its apologists/supporters/drooling sycophants have certainly given me more shitty days than I care to recall.

The problem with not eventually forgiving to at least some extent is that I have nothing to do with the residual anger it produces except to internalize it. Then it becomes an ugly gift that keeps on giving as all that internalized anger eventually either resurfaces and causes me to lash out at people I don't mean to direct my anger at, or remains buried in an emotional pit inside my psyche causing depression.

I think I'll just choose to forget. For me, forgetting entails some level of forgiveness, at least to the extent that I will no longer allow these toxic people and their pathological obsessions and hatreds to rent space inside my cabeza. Let them go their way, and I'll go mine, and, hopefully, never the twain shall meet.

[onecaliberal]

82. I hear you but something tells me these people are not going quietly into the night.

As long as they continue to hurt anyone they deem to be other, I can’t forget. Eventually they’ll come for all of us if we don’t put a stop to them.

[PatrickforO]

83. Me too, and I'm very disinclined to forgive. These are crimes against humanity,

and must be punished.

[murielm99]

84. I know Democrats

whom I will not forgive. I can't see extending any forgiveness to republicans.

[Linda Ed]

85. Hungry, Scared and Sick:

Hungry, Scared and Sick: Inside the
Migrant Detention Center in Clint, Tex.
Outbreaks of scabies, shingles and chickenpox were spreading among the hundreds of children who were being held in cramped cells, agents said. The stench of the children’s dirty clothing was so strong it spread to the agents’ own clothing — people in town would scrunch their noses when they left work. The children cried constantly. One girl seemed likely enough to try to kill herself that the agents made her sleep on a cot in front of them, so they could watch her as they were processing new arrivals.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/07/06/us/migrants-border-patrol-clint.html

This is the NYT and they fired back at drumpf about his lies
Trump tweeted that “The Fake News Media, in particular the Failing New York Times, is writing phony and exaggerated accounts of the Border Detention Centers.” He then went on to insist that he’s providing “care” for the immigrants he’s kidnapped and illegally imprisoned. As it turns out, the New York Times wasn’t about to let Trump get away with his lies. https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/new-york-times-fires-back-trump/19181/

[Mjolnir1956]

86. No Forgiveness

To paraphrase Conan the Barbarian I want To crush the Republicans. I want to see them driven before a Dem President, Senate and House, And I want to hear the lamentations of their Ignorant Racist Goober Base!

[dlk]

87. Let's Forgive but Never, Ever Forget

Forgiveness isn't ever for the other person. On the contrary, it's for each one of us and our own physical, mental and spiritual health. Forgiveness never means that what the other person(s) did was ever acceptable under any circumstances. It is the process of letting go of the hurt, anger, and hatred for our own well being.

However, forgetting is another matter entirely. We must never forget what has been done in all our names and hold each and every person fully accountable for their crimes, for however long it takes. It's possible to forgive and still have a long memory.