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Goodheart

(5,321 posts)
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:25 PM Jul 2019

We just witnessed the worst aspect of soccer - *spoilers*

Last edited Sun Jul 7, 2019, 05:52 PM - Edit history (2)

Hard fought contest, scoreless, neither team can generate a goal during the normal course of play, and then suddenly...

A Dutch lady tries VERY HARD to kick a ball, so much so that her entire body came upside down, absolutely no intent, whatsoever, to foul the American....

And then a cheap goal from a penalty.

And they call this "sport".

I'm certainly very happy that American women are the best at this game, but can you tell that I don't like soccer? LOL

Edited to add (because some have misread my actual point):

- Yes, it certainly was a penalty.
- Yes, such high reckless kicks certainly should be penalized, regardless of intent.

140 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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We just witnessed the worst aspect of soccer - *spoilers* (Original Post) Goodheart Jul 2019 OP
Agreed. There was no intent by theDutch player to injure theAmerican. Funtatlaguy Jul 2019 #1
Right. It's only the most populal sport in the world, by far lunamagica Jul 2019 #33
Yes, it is. And it bores me to tears. But glad you and others like it. Funtatlaguy Jul 2019 #41
Rules of sports aren't just about "intent to injure" muriel_volestrangler Jul 2019 #58
BS malaise Jul 2019 #2
Yeah that was a penalty all the way. Still In Wisconsin Jul 2019 #3
Yes, a clear penalty according to the rules. So what? Goodheart Jul 2019 #4
Then don't watch n/t malaise Jul 2019 #6
So is it sarisataka Jul 2019 #9
Penalty shots in hockey... N_E_1 for Tennis Jul 2019 #10
that's true of pretty much every team sport fishwax Jul 2019 #15
It does get magnified in low-scoring sports though. Dr. Strange Jul 2019 #47
i don't really agree, unless one sees both scoring and penalties in isolation fishwax Jul 2019 #51
If you think penalty kicks should count for less, Ilsa Jul 2019 #24
I don't like soccer qazplm135 Jul 2019 #40
Never watched the NFL, NBA, NHL, or MLB? JDC Jul 2019 #119
Intent is not a rationale for a foul or a penalty jayschool2013 Jul 2019 #5
Intentional grounding in Football is one and an intentional foul in Basketball is another. mobeau69 Jul 2019 #27
ok but the VAST majority of penalties in both sports qazplm135 Jul 2019 #43
Their are intentional fouls in basketball at the end of every game. MichMan Jul 2019 #46
In the last few minutes of a basketball game, it seems ... JustABozoOnThisBus Jul 2019 #48
They always foul the guy with the ball while they're "going for the ball". mobeau69 Jul 2019 #103
Wrong. Targeting in football is intent. Basketball also has intent levels of ejection. Funtatlaguy Jul 2019 #28
Too bad we don't hold people to the rule of law the same way. ananda Jul 2019 #38
Ding ding we have a winner malaise Jul 2019 #87
There is some rationale sarisataka Jul 2019 #50
Non-soccer fans jayschool2013 Jul 2019 #7
I didnt watch that shit intentionally.was captive at a sports bar. Don't assume. Funtatlaguy Jul 2019 #31
Captive? How so? You could have left at any time to avoid the torture lunamagica Jul 2019 #37
Post removed Post removed Jul 2019 #45
That game wasn't "shit" obamanut2012 Jul 2019 #129
Some people watched the best female athletes sarisataka Jul 2019 #133
I am not a fan of VAR sarisataka Jul 2019 #8
100% correct malaise Jul 2019 #139
Wrong mcar Jul 2019 #11
I'm not wrong about anything, sorry. I never said it was not a penalty. Goodheart Jul 2019 #13
Here's a thought: mcar Jul 2019 #16
+1 Takket Jul 2019 #22
+1 mitch96 Jul 2019 #120
So, you're saying players should play any way they want and not be penalized? gratuitous Jul 2019 #17
No, I'm not saying that. LOL. Goodheart Jul 2019 #19
Well then gratuitous Jul 2019 #29
"Clearly don't understand"? LOL. Goodheart Jul 2019 #34
No, you don't gratuitous Jul 2019 #36
What's not to understand? According to the rules it was a penalty. Goodheart Jul 2019 #39
You called the penalty 'random'. That shows you don't understand (nt) muriel_volestrangler Jul 2019 #62
Of course it was random. Goodheart Jul 2019 #96
Why not? sarisataka Jul 2019 #32
Yes you are wrong Gothmog Jul 2019 #69
go whine about it in the Lounge. GD is supposed to be sports free. TeamPooka Jul 2019 #12
Was not aware of that rule. An unintentional foul! Goodheart Jul 2019 #14
Yet it's still a foul. Iggo Jul 2019 #23
Never argued otherwise, in either case. Goodheart Jul 2019 #25
Jesus fuck, whatever. Iggo Jul 2019 #30
Not international events malaise Jul 2019 #128
Her kick NEVER made contact with the ball. Ilsa Jul 2019 #18
Never said otherwise. Goodheart Jul 2019 #20
+1000 Pachamama Jul 2019 #131
Sounds like Rollerball is more your game. MicaelS Jul 2019 #21
I didn't argue against penalties. Goodheart Jul 2019 #26
Soccer purists are the most arrogant of any sports fans. Funtatlaguy Jul 2019 #35
Good post. :) Goodheart Jul 2019 #42
I find soccer haters sarisataka Jul 2019 #49
Well said! mcar Jul 2019 #53
Petulant snowflakes? Goodheart Jul 2019 #56
Who is crying sarisataka Jul 2019 #78
If you don't perceive the tactics involved, I'll wager you've never played the game, Denzil_DC Jul 2019 #108
I do not care for most sports. MicaelS Jul 2019 #97
Seems a basic courtesy, doesn't it 3catwoman3 Jul 2019 #121
Agree 100%. MicaelS Jul 2019 #135
The last time I went bowling, I was 15. 3catwoman3 Jul 2019 #136
Wow. MicaelS Jul 2019 #137
The 15 was not a typo. 3catwoman3 Jul 2019 #138
Hard to appreciate a game where they play for a tie. Drahthaardogs Jul 2019 #44
Kicking a player is a foul. Music Man Jul 2019 #52
Read the thread. Goodheart Jul 2019 #54
I read every post. Music Man Jul 2019 #55
Thanks for using the word "recklessly". Denzil_DC Jul 2019 #113
I'm guessing you don't watch much sport of any kind muriel_volestrangler Jul 2019 #57
Read the thread. Goodheart Jul 2019 #59
Hah - yes, it's not going very well for you, is it? (nt) muriel_volestrangler Jul 2019 #64
Like I've said multiple times, I never argued that it wasn't a penalty, or Goodheart Jul 2019 #66
You tried to argue that she didn't raise her foot intentionally muriel_volestrangler Jul 2019 #72
Huh? No, I didn't. LOL Goodheart Jul 2019 #74
Read the thread. muriel_volestrangler Jul 2019 #82
This was a clear foul Gothmog Jul 2019 #60
Read the thread. Goodheart Jul 2019 #65
This was a clear foul Gothmog Jul 2019 #67
Yes, it was a clear foul. Already addressed. Goodheart Jul 2019 #68
In the real world, intent is meaningless Gothmog Jul 2019 #70
Haven't been wrong about anything. Goodheart Jul 2019 #73
Denial is not just a river in Africa Gothmog Jul 2019 #89
Red cards. LOL. Goodheart Jul 2019 #91
Under the rules for soccer, a red card is award for a flagrant foul Gothmog Jul 2019 #107
Sports penalties are not about intent. And penalties in all sports can decide the game Buckeyeblue Jul 2019 #61
Read the thread. Goodheart Jul 2019 #63
LOL the thread does not support your claim Gothmog Jul 2019 #71
Oh? What's my claim? Be specific. Goodheart Jul 2019 #76
that a "cheap" goal was scored after a penalty you don't think deserves to be a penalty. onenote Jul 2019 #86
Wrong. I never claimed that it didn't deserve a penalty. Goodheart Jul 2019 #90
Asking again: are penalty shots/shootout goals in hockey "cheap"? onenote Jul 2019 #92
Certainly not as cheap as what I witnessed today. Goodheart Jul 2019 #94
And why was it "cheaper" than a hockey penalty shot or shoot out goal? onenote Jul 2019 #102
do you think it deserves to be a penalty when someone makes conduct as in this instance onenote Jul 2019 #93
Already answered: YES Goodheart Jul 2019 #95
The USA women's soccer team is the best in the world. IluvPitties Jul 2019 #75
Agree. Goodheart Jul 2019 #77
It has game changing penalties like any other sport Bradical79 Jul 2019 #79
No, it's not like other sports. Goodheart Jul 2019 #80
I've watched plenty of football games where penalties have played a significant role in the outcomes onenote Jul 2019 #83
And if penalties didn't play such a significant role.. Bradical79 Jul 2019 #88
Still don't see it that differently Bradical79 Jul 2019 #84
Football is massively tactical. Voltaire2 Jul 2019 #123
No, soccer is not massively tactical. Goodheart Jul 2019 #124
Right. Voltaire2 Jul 2019 #126
The referee made the correct call and the VAR backed her up FakeNoose Jul 2019 #81
question for the OP: are penalty and shootout goals in hockey "cheap"? onenote Jul 2019 #85
I find golf, American football, and bowling stultifyingly dull. A few others, too. 3catwoman3 Jul 2019 #98
So? Goodheart Jul 2019 #99
Well, if you are a destination rather than a journey person elias7 Jul 2019 #100
It's a real bad day for Trump fans. Kingofalldems Jul 2019 #101
Well, I certainly enjoyed the chants from the French bar. LOL Goodheart Jul 2019 #104
That has the definition of a high kick underpants Jul 2019 #105
I presume nobody is making you to watch it. LisaL Jul 2019 #106
You don't say. Goodheart Jul 2019 #110
Rubbish... Seriously JCMach1 Jul 2019 #109
I cannot stand baseball or basketball Marrah_Goodman Jul 2019 #111
Good for you. Goodheart Jul 2019 #114
The rules of U.S.A. "football" are surrealistically arcane in comparison. hunter Jul 2019 #112
The planning, elements, tactics, positioning, specialization in warfare are complex. Goodheart Jul 2019 #115
I'm a pacifist. Not by natural inclination, but by necessity. hunter Jul 2019 #116
I agree that war is stupid. Goodheart Jul 2019 #117
I was a member of a high school chess club. hunter Jul 2019 #130
As a general note to everyone (because a lot of people have gotten this wrong): Music Man Jul 2019 #118
USA won 2-0. Raine1967 Jul 2019 #122
Oh and it was a stunningly good kick. Voltaire2 Jul 2019 #125
I'm suspicious of anyone who hates all sports. It's weird. Sorry redstateblues Jul 2019 #127
If you dont like soccer then why watch it then share your ignorance? jcgoldie Jul 2019 #132
Oh spare us... BooScout Jul 2019 #134
"cheap goal" ?? honest.abe Jul 2019 #140

Funtatlaguy

(10,870 posts)
1. Agreed. There was no intent by theDutch player to injure theAmerican.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:28 PM
Jul 2019

It was incidental contact.
But that doesn’t exist in soccer ⚽️
Just one more reason that soccer sucks.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,306 posts)
58. Rules of sports aren't just about "intent to injure"
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:23 PM
Jul 2019

In American football, for instance, you can't just push a player over when they're trying to catch a pass.

Do you watch much sport?

Goodheart

(5,321 posts)
4. Yes, a clear penalty according to the rules. So what?
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:32 PM
Jul 2019

The point stands. The fact that a penalty can decide so much says a lot about soccer.

sarisataka

(18,600 posts)
9. So is it
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:49 PM
Jul 2019

You just don't like soccer and will find a reason to support your opinion?

Are there any other sports you judge the rules so harshly?

N_E_1 for Tennis

(9,715 posts)
10. Penalty shots in hockey...
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:54 PM
Jul 2019

That score and change the game...a penalty that takes away a touchdown in football, changes the game...all with clear and unarguable penalties...what does that say about sports?

I’m not a soccer fan...but I am a sports fan and don’t agree with some penalties (especially if they are against my team) but rules are rules like it or not. Tell me of one sport where a called penalty may not change the game.

Dr. Strange

(25,919 posts)
47. It does get magnified in low-scoring sports though.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:39 PM
Jul 2019

Soccer and hockey are more susceptible to "penalty distortions"; soccer more so, what with the enhanced penalties in the box.

The only way around that issue, that I can tell, would be to try to adjust the game so that scoring is easier. You could make the goals bigger, but that's a major adjustment--probably a bridge too far. The NHL did away with the dumb two-line pass rule, which opened the game back up. I wouldn't mind seeing soccer loosen up the off sides rule, and give the offensive players more leeway.

fishwax

(29,149 posts)
51. i don't really agree, unless one sees both scoring and penalties in isolation
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:53 PM
Jul 2019

from the rest of the game. The percentage of points awarded by a penalty shot is higher in soccer than in basketball, sure, but that doesn't really mean that fouls have a bigher impact on the game as a whole. Football doesnt have any points that come directly from a penalty try (i suppose pass interference in the end zone under nfl rules would come closest, but it's not really the same), but fouls still play a huge part in the game. The NFC championship thus year hinged on a penalty (that wasn't called).

The foul today didn't happen in isolation, but was at least in part a function of a defense wearing down after holding up admirably for three-quarters of pressure. You see the same thing a lot in basketball, too.

Ilsa

(61,694 posts)
24. If you think penalty kicks should count for less,
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:15 PM
Jul 2019

then propose some rule changes: two points for an action field goal, one point for a penalty kick. I wouldn't mind a proposal like that since there us no way to fully discern intent.

But I suspect you would just be spitting into the wind.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
40. I don't like soccer
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:31 PM
Jul 2019

but a penalty deciding everything happens in nearly every sport all of the time.

Football, basketball, hockey...

JDC

(10,125 posts)
119. Never watched the NFL, NBA, NHL, or MLB?
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 05:17 PM
Jul 2019

Sports outcomes are quite often decided by officiating and calls on the field.

jayschool2013

(2,312 posts)
5. Intent is not a rationale for a foul or a penalty
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:33 PM
Jul 2019

in football, basketball, hockey, horse racing, etc.

A foul is defined by the rulebook, no matter the sport.

It's not a problem with soccer. In fact, it's not a problem at all, but definitely nothing to pin on soccer.

MichMan

(11,910 posts)
46. Their are intentional fouls in basketball at the end of every game.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:36 PM
Jul 2019

That penalty is hardly ever enforced

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,338 posts)
48. In the last few minutes of a basketball game, it seems ...
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:40 PM
Jul 2019

... that ALL the fouls are intentional. So the last three minutes can last for 20 minutes. Are any of the intentional fouls called as "intentional"?

mobeau69

(11,141 posts)
103. They always foul the guy with the ball while they're "going for the ball".
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:02 PM
Jul 2019

If they aren't making a play on the ball or they foul one of the other players without the ball an intentional will be called every time.

sarisataka

(18,600 posts)
50. There is some rationale
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:52 PM
Jul 2019

Had the Netherlands player intentionally kicked the US player ot would have been a penalty and a red card

jayschool2013

(2,312 posts)
7. Non-soccer fans
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:34 PM
Jul 2019

I'm always amazed at the number of people who watch soccer and then post comments on message boards about how they don't like soccer.

Response to lunamagica (Reply #37)

obamanut2012

(26,068 posts)
129. That game wasn't "shit"
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 06:19 PM
Jul 2019

WTF is wrong with you???

You go to a sports bar the morning of the World Cup Finals and call the #uswnt's historic win "shit"?

sarisataka

(18,600 posts)
133. Some people watched the best female athletes
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 07:32 PM
Jul 2019

In their sport put an exclamation point on an excellent tournament. They saw the champions face a worthy opponent who made them earn the right to keep their crown for another four years. They saw the final game of a month that won millions of fans to the women's side of the sport and likely inspired girls across the globe to take the chance and teach for their dreams. All of this done in spite of outrageous, widening pay gaps and being treated as a sideshow by their own governing body.

Others just saw "shit"

sarisataka

(18,600 posts)
8. I am not a fan of VAR
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:37 PM
Jul 2019

however that was 100% a penalty and a yellow

It does not matter what the intent of the player was, and I agree she did not mean to kick the US player, but what actually happened. A reckless kick that does not touch the ball but instead strikes an opponent is a direct free kick foul; inside the box it is a penalty kick.

The referee did not have a good line to see the foul. Were I in her place I would have consulted the AR who had a clear view of play. FIFA is telling the refs to rely on VAR.

malaise

(268,930 posts)
139. 100% correct
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 08:57 PM
Jul 2019

The Ref called for a corner while I was screaming penalty and then the VAR folks spoke to her - when she saw the replay that was that - clear penalty

mcar

(42,302 posts)
11. Wrong
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:57 PM
Jul 2019

A high kick is a high kick. Any soccer player, even nice Dutch ladies, get the card for that.

Goodheart

(5,321 posts)
13. I'm not wrong about anything, sorry. I never said it was not a penalty.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:02 PM
Jul 2019

My objection is that penalties determine so much. In fact, 100% of the scoring up to that point.

Got it?

As far as soccer fans hurt that some others don't like soccer: Get over it. You're perfectly entitled to enjoy it, and I'm happy that you do. To each his own. Really. I was just explaining one of the many reasons I will never like it.

mcar

(42,302 posts)
16. Here's a thought:
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:07 PM
Jul 2019

Don't like the sport, don't watch. I don't watch US football for that reason.

I'm off to enjoy the US women's win.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
17. So, you're saying players should play any way they want and not be penalized?
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:08 PM
Jul 2019

Because that's kind of a stupid point and it sounds like you don't know what you're talking about. The rules are in place to maintain the integrity of the game, protect the players from injury, and provide a platform for the better team to win.

Goodheart

(5,321 posts)
19. No, I'm not saying that. LOL.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:12 PM
Jul 2019

I'm saying that FOR ME the game is structurally boring, and that random penalties determine too much. I have several ideas that would preserve the basic nature of the game but would make it a lot more fun to watch. I won't share these here.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
29. Well then
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:18 PM
Jul 2019

You might want to either (a) stop watching soccer; (b) quit complaining about something you clearly don't understand; or (c) learn something so you don't sound quite so ignorant.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
36. No, you don't
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:24 PM
Jul 2019

I understand you think you know what you're talking about, but you don't. Really. Education can overcome ignorance, but stubbornness doesn't overcome anything.

Goodheart

(5,321 posts)
39. What's not to understand? According to the rules it was a penalty.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:29 PM
Jul 2019

I never said otherwise. I never said it SHOULDN'T be a penalty, either. Nothing difficult to understand. You're just upset that somebody criticized soccer. Get over it.

sarisataka

(18,600 posts)
32. Why not?
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:20 PM
Jul 2019

If you have ideas to improve something why not share them?

Otherwise it is simply empty criticism

Ilsa

(61,694 posts)
18. Her kick NEVER made contact with the ball.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:09 PM
Jul 2019

If she had made contact, there would not have been a penalty kick. They checked the video carefully.

Players can't pretend they are kicking the ball when they are really just trying to illegally interfere in play. The rules are to help protect players and ensure they play the game, not physically intimidate each other.

And the ref missed another one during the first half, then turned around and yellow-carded a US player for doing the same thing one minute later.

Funtatlaguy

(10,870 posts)
35. Soccer purists are the most arrogant of any sports fans.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:23 PM
Jul 2019

They can’t understand why many of us are bored as hell by it.
Just enjoy it. I don't Care that you do. Why do you care that I don’t.

The only good thing about today is I hope it pissed off Trump that Rapinoe won. Her I like.

sarisataka

(18,600 posts)
49. I find soccer haters
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:50 PM
Jul 2019

To be the most whiny, petulant snowflakes. They can't wait for the one match every few years to appear on regular TV and bump their precious "American" sports for a couple hours, giving them the opportunity to cry over how boring soccer is and let everyone know it.

You may have been held "captive" at a sports bar, but no one forced you to watch anything. I regularly go to a sports bar for their chicken wings and I could not tell you a single thing going on one of their twenty TVs. I simply don't watch.

Now perhaps you were superglued to a seat facing a TV but no one forced you to go online and post your opinion about how boring you think the sport it. I would much rather go to the dentist everyday of March than watch a single minute of basketball. Yet I don't go around posting how banal I think the sport is and insulting the fans. I let them have their month, along with the other 8 months of NBA games, and find something constructive to do with my time. Maybe watch a football match...

Goodheart

(5,321 posts)
56. Petulant snowflakes?
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:10 PM
Jul 2019

LOL. I'm not the one crying because my sport has been criticized.

Enjoy your sport. It's quite OK to me that you do. My post was merely an explanation why I (and others I know) will never like it. In a nutshell: too much random stuff comprising too much of the outcome. Not a big enough percentage of the scoring by way of tactics.

And it's a real pity... because I've always WANTED to like it, but never could. And it could be so easily fixed but soccer "purists" will cry about that, too.

sarisataka

(18,600 posts)
78. Who is crying
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:42 PM
Jul 2019

Only one that I see crying is about how a boring, randomly decided "sport" is allowed on their TV. If you don't like it, why did you watch it?

You claim that penalties too often decide games doesn't hold up statistically. Per FIFA, the 52 matches averaged 2.8 goals per game. The penalty average was .3 per game. I have not yet seen stats for how many were saved, not every PK results in a goal.

Again you hint you have the solution (usual ideas are along the lines of making the goals the size of a drive-in screen) but will keep it to yourself.

Denzil_DC

(7,232 posts)
108. If you don't perceive the tactics involved, I'll wager you've never played the game,
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:24 PM
Jul 2019

let alone watched enough matches to understand it.

Myself, I find the constant stoppages in American football an immense turnoff. It looks mostly like an intermittent explosive brawl with the ball as an inconvenience, punctuated by lengthy breathers, rather than the flow of play you get in soccer and rugby and other ball sports. Not a problem - it's not on TV often where I am, I don't go out of my way to watch it, and if a post pops up here discussing a game, I'd just find something else to read or do. It may just be that I haven't watched it enough to understand the nuances, of course.

Whatever, well done to the US team for a hard-fought and exciting final match. They were deserving winners.

And if the low score is one of your gripes, if not for an absolutely stellar performance from the Netherlands' goalkeeper, it could easily have been 10-0.

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
97. I do not care for most sports.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:25 PM
Jul 2019

But I do not go posting how dumb they are. I just reconize what they are and what purpose they serve in the greater human condition. Let people have their pleasures and don't whine about it.

3catwoman3

(23,973 posts)
121. Seems a basic courtesy, doesn't it
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 05:38 PM
Jul 2019

Here is my post, #98, on the matter:


98. I find golf, American football, and bowling stultifyingly dull. A few others, too.

With this one exception right here, right now, I would NEVER go on a thread about these sports and complain about how much I didn’t like them, let alone start one.

If others like/love them, why should I rain on their parade?

3catwoman3

(23,973 posts)
136. The last time I went bowling, I was 15.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 08:51 PM
Jul 2019

That was also my score -

That might have something to do with why I don’t care for it.

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
137. Wow.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 08:53 PM
Jul 2019

I think the best game I ever rolled was 150.

Had a custom ball and bag.

Did you ever try duckpins?

3catwoman3

(23,973 posts)
138. The 15 was not a typo.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 08:56 PM
Jul 2019

My surname is Ball, and I completely suck at any thing that requires any accuracy with one.

I used to be a pretty good dancer, however. I claim to be an esthete rather than an athlete.

Music Man

(1,184 posts)
52. Kicking a player is a foul.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:54 PM
Jul 2019

There are 11 fouls that result in a direct kick, and thus if they happen in the penalty area, they result in a penalty kick. It's worked fine for a century.

A common mantra in referee training is that you can't read players' minds. You judge the action itself. Intent *can* be a factor, and it's addressed accordingly. Fouls done recklessly receive a yellow card, and fouls done with excessive force receive red.

Stop shitting on a sport lots of people love. Soccer bashing is so freaking old. Got any jokes about airline food while you're at it?

Music Man

(1,184 posts)
55. I read every post.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:09 PM
Jul 2019

Still not sure of your point other than soccer is not a real sport because penalty kicks can be consequential?

Denzil_DC

(7,232 posts)
113. Thanks for using the word "recklessly".
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:38 PM
Jul 2019

That was the crux of why it was a foul, and worthy of a yellow card, and many who've replied here haven't picked up on it.

It was dangerous play. Players are entitled to go hard for the ball, and they may not always connect, but in the process you can't put the studs on your boots where they may well do another player harm, like around head level, for instance.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,306 posts)
57. I'm guessing you don't watch much sport of any kind
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:22 PM
Jul 2019

The point is that putting your foot that high where the opposing player is going to be impedes them. That is "a foul". Basketball and American football, for instance, have similar rules, about what is or isn't a legal block or tackle.

"Trying very hard" is OK as a yardstick for a kickaround, but formal sport has formal rules.

Goodheart

(5,321 posts)
66. Like I've said multiple times, I never argued that it wasn't a penalty, or
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:33 PM
Jul 2019

that it shouldn't be a penalty.

You and others are arguing a strawman.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,306 posts)
72. You tried to argue that she didn't raise her foot intentionally
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:38 PM
Jul 2019

which is a pretty bizarre thing to say about a professional athlete. Of course she did it on purpose. You don't get a reflex like that. You tried to dismiss it as "trying very hard". That's the kind of thing you might say to a 6 year old you're teaching the basics to, but it's hardly a sensible comment to make on an adult board.

Goodheart

(5,321 posts)
73. Haven't been wrong about anything.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:39 PM
Jul 2019

I never argued that it wasn't a penalty.
I never argued that it shouldn't have been a penalty.
I never argued that intent should factor into a ref's decision on whether or not to call a penalty.

That's just you seeing what you want to see.

Gothmog

(145,130 posts)
107. Under the rules for soccer, a red card is award for a flagrant foul
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:22 PM
Jul 2019

The Danish player could have been ejected due to this foul. That is how the rules work in the real world

Buckeyeblue

(5,499 posts)
61. Sports penalties are not about intent. And penalties in all sports can decide the game
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:28 PM
Jul 2019

In this match, the US women dominated. The score could have easily been 5-0.

onenote

(42,694 posts)
86. that a "cheap" goal was scored after a penalty you don't think deserves to be a penalty.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:01 PM
Jul 2019

and because it could decide the contest (although in this case it didn't) soccer doesn't deserve to be a sport

onenote

(42,694 posts)
102. And why was it "cheaper" than a hockey penalty shot or shoot out goal?
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:02 PM
Jul 2019

And what about foul shots -- was it cheaper than a foul shot in basketball?

onenote

(42,694 posts)
93. do you think it deserves to be a penalty when someone makes conduct as in this instance
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:07 PM
Jul 2019

without intent to commit a foul?

IluvPitties

(3,181 posts)
75. The USA women's soccer team is the best in the world.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:40 PM
Jul 2019

Appreciate quality when you see it. That's a special team.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
79. It has game changing penalties like any other sport
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:45 PM
Jul 2019

Not sure why you question its status as sport because of that.

Goodheart

(5,321 posts)
80. No, it's not like other sports.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:48 PM
Jul 2019

It's so sparse on tactics that penalties too often play an inordinate role in the outcomes.

onenote

(42,694 posts)
83. I've watched plenty of football games where penalties have played a significant role in the outcomes
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:55 PM
Jul 2019

Holding penalties that kill drives. Pass interference penalties that put a team in scoring position. Face mask penalties or defensive holding calls that keep drives alive. A significant number of scoring drives are impacted by penalties and the same is true for many non-scoring drives.

In basketball, foul shots often can represent the margin of victory, as can power play or penalty shots in hockey.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
88. And if penalties didn't play such a significant role..
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:02 PM
Jul 2019

...then there would be no reason to not wreck someone every time they get into scoring range.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
84. Still don't see it that differently
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:57 PM
Jul 2019

Many hockey games are determined by power play goals, NFL penalties often derail potential scoring drives multiple times a game (or hands the other team a score), in the NBA free throw shooting is often the difference between winning amd losing.

Voltaire2

(13,009 posts)
123. Football is massively tactical.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 05:57 PM
Jul 2019

Your ignorance of the game is stunning but do carry on.

Oh and the rules regarding penalty kicks are absolutely necessary or the defense would just knock down any player near their goal.

The American were dominating on offense and the Dutch team was getting desperate on defense. That desperation led directly to the high foot that caused a penalty kick.

It didn’t change the outcome, it was the inevitable result of the situation the Dutch were in.

FakeNoose

(32,633 posts)
81. The referee made the correct call and the VAR backed her up
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:48 PM
Jul 2019

I think your complaint is really about the fact that officiating soccer isn't the same as officiating American football, am I right?

Secondly Megan Rapinoe's penalty kick was not a "cheap goal." She's their ace-in-the-hole winner, their bring-it-home star player.

The American team played awesomely both offense and defense. The Dutch team was also great but they didn't get as many chances to score in this game. There were very few mistakes or bad calls that I could see. The Netherlands team can hold their heads high, they played a great game and they got beat today.

onenote

(42,694 posts)
85. question for the OP: are penalty and shootout goals in hockey "cheap"?
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:59 PM
Jul 2019

Are points scored on foul shots in basketball "cheap"

(Heck at least in soccer and hockey there is a defender).

3catwoman3

(23,973 posts)
98. I find golf, American football, and bowling stultifyingly dull. A few others, too.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:27 PM
Jul 2019

With this one exception right here, right now, I would NEVER go on a thread about these sports and complain about how much I didn’t like them, let alone start one.

If others like/love them, why should I rain on their parade?

elias7

(3,997 posts)
100. Well, if you are a destination rather than a journey person
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:52 PM
Jul 2019

I get it. You don’t appreciate process. You want results in the form of scoring.

It’s kind of like having kids. You can either spend your time enjoying the moments of ongoing growth, or you can spend your time reveling or despairing over their achievements or lack thereof...

Soccer is a life game and I’m sorry you don’t appreciate its nuances...

LisaL

(44,973 posts)
106. I presume nobody is making you to watch it.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:22 PM
Jul 2019

If you don't like the game, you don't have to watch it.

hunter

(38,310 posts)
112. The rules of U.S.A. "football" are surrealistically arcane in comparison.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:36 PM
Jul 2019

U.S.A. football reminds me of the first time I played cricket as a displaced teen in another land, when all I could think is:

is happening here?

U.S.A. football was a mystery to me until I started watching games like the Superbowl with my father-in-law.

I have a sister who is a "soccer" amazon, she's been playing and coaching for half a century, so maybe I'm prejudiced.

The only team sport I've ever any competency at was recreational co-ed softball. Sometimes when I'd hit the ball it would go fast and far, and whenever I was running hard, in the field or around the bases, nobody wanted to get in the way of the big crazy eyed klutz wearing glasses.






hunter

(38,310 posts)
130. I was a member of a high school chess club.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 06:21 PM
Jul 2019

Pretty good too, second or third, sometimes fourth ranking, we try harder.

Yet my physically and intellectually reckless younger brother would destroy me in chess and he never joined a chess club. He's successful in a way I was not. And in his youth he was an occasional bone-breaking terror in physical blood sports. He plays a damned fine game of golf too.

I introduced our oldest kid to chess, and my wife and I encouraged high school sports, with success, but oldest kid decided it was all boring, graduated from prestigious college, got married, owns house of higher value than our own in left coast urban California, travels the world before age thirty.

My wife and I bought our first house in our twenties, but it was in the rustbelt Midwest and cost a little less than $8,000. We live in a California place where I sometimes bitch about gang graffiti on our back wall as I paint it over.

Our children, nephews, and nieces are all ferocious, in games and the "real" world, and I think that's what the U.S.A. is supposed to be about -- that the next generation does better than you.

My father-in-law was born in a tent in a Mexican farm labor camp a few hundred meters from a small orchard my parents used to own. My wife and I, who met having escaped rural and suburban California hell to the Big City, knew nothing of this until we were irrevocably engaged.

I don't have anything nice to say about games or game theory.

The universe doesn't care.

My ancestors were largely pacifist religious dissidents who came to the U.S.A. in the eighteenth and nineteenth century because they didn't want to play those games, and the remaining were just out ahead of the English hangman.

Music Man

(1,184 posts)
118. As a general note to everyone (because a lot of people have gotten this wrong):
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 05:08 PM
Jul 2019

The foul that was called is not "dangerous play" or "high kick." The specific foul was that the player kicked Alex Morgan.

The additional fact that it was so high makes it a reckless foul and is thus a yellow card.

Dangerous play in itself (such as a high kick that does not actually make contact with the opponent) is an indirect free kick, and anything that would result in an indirect free kick doesn't result in a penalty kick, even if it's in the penalty area. It would be an indirect kick from the spot where the offense occurred. Only the 11 penal fouls that would result in a direct free kick can be penalty kicks (as a penalty kick is a form of direct free kick).

Voltaire2

(13,009 posts)
125. Oh and it was a stunningly good kick.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 06:06 PM
Jul 2019

I know Rapinoe made it look easy, but that was an awesome bit of misdirection she executed.

BooScout

(10,406 posts)
134. Oh spare us...
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 08:04 PM
Jul 2019

If you don't like football then don't criticise what you don't understand.

It wasn't a 'cheap goal'. It was part of the game. You kick another player recklessly, you get a yellow card and the other team gets a penalty kick.

In sports, there are rules and when you break the rules and get caught, you get penalised.

We go through life with rules. Calling the goal a 'cheap goal' is like calling a vehicular homicide an accident. Rules in sport, as in life are there for a reason.

honest.abe

(8,677 posts)
140. "cheap goal" ??
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 08:58 PM
Jul 2019

That was a beautiful skillful penalty shot beating one of the best goalies in the world.

Scoring as a result of a penalty is a significant part of every sport.

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