As one who is calling for impeachment hearings.

[kacekwl]

I'm tired of being told by Speaker Pelosi and those here that , you don't understand how impeachment works, we don't have the votes in the Senate etc. I fully understand the process and I also understand that there are people running this government who are breaking the law , flouting the constitution and committing crimes against humanity on a daily basis. Sorry folks but congress members have taken an oath to fight such conduct wether it is successful or politically prudent . The time has long past for serious investigation and the need to hear witness testimony not on their terms but on the terms of the investigators. The high crimes and misdomeners are many and out there in the open . We may not win the impeachment battle but not to fight is a shame.

[watoos]

1. I could not agree more.

If there are grounds for impeachment, and there are, I look upon impeachment as an obligation not a choice.

Trump has the Senate in his back pocket and has neutered the House. (80 subpoenas - 0 responses) The Senate just passed a spending bill for the border that was supposed to originate in the House and it passed with only 8 no votes. It then passed the House and when AOC voted no she was admonished by the Speaker.

Trump/McConnell keep putting on federal judges, 1 in 6 judges is now appointed by Trump. Trump is putting all of his people in positions of power for when he declares martial law after he loses the election.

I must be pretty fck'd up because I don't see where everything is going according to plan.

Dems had better come prepared for the Mueller hearing because he is not going to volunteer information on his own. Too bad that AOC wasn't on one of the committees.

[in2herbs]

2. Agree 1000%. nt

[Goodheart]

3. Agree. Madame Pelosi seems more worried about politics than doing the right thing.

It's turning people off.

[brutus smith]

36. Exactly!

[Everyman Jackal]

4. I agree.

People are saying that he will be acquitted by the Senate. Only if the Senate gets a vote. There isn't anything in the Constitution that says that Articles of Impeachment have to come to a vote. I don't just mean Trump. Rake them all over the coals. Then the Democrats can decide how to play each person.

[PufPuf23]

5. Failure to pursue impeachment is giving Trump the POTUS in 2020

and setting the Democratic party up for a massacre in 2020 elections.

[Trumpocalypse]

6. The same argument was made in 07

when Pelosi wouldn’t impeach Bush. How did the 08 election work out?

[PufPuf23]

8. So what? POTUS Obama was elected as the GOP pretty much

trashed the nation during the 8 years of GWB. Unfortunately the Democratic party does not have a candidate with the character, skill, and charisma of Obama for 2020.

Politically 2020 is more like 2012 as is a midterm. Recall how the Democratic party lost ground in 2012, IMHO because we were not aggressive enough in pursuing the agendas that brought POTUS Obama to office.

Pelosi was wrong with GWB and is wrong now, harming the nation and the Democratic party. There would be no Trump save for mistakes by the Democratic leadership and scapegoating those left of center or Russia are sorry excuses for their failures.

The point you seem to miss is that there are values more important to most folks that pay attention than political calculus, basic right and wrong and the fact that we should not have criminals occupying any political office especially in POTUS (and lets add the DOJ).

[Trumpocalypse]

9. The Dems also picked up seats

in both the House and Senate in 08. And regardless of Obama, the prediction about the 08 election was wrong and there is no evidence that it is true now.

And 2020 in not a midterm so the comparison to 12 is bogus.

[PufPuf23]

13. The increase in seats in 2008 was in reaction to the GOP totally trashing the economy,

backlash against the GWB years, and the unique coattails of POTUS Obama.

We do not have a candidate with the character, skills, or charisma of POTUS Obama, a unique man in the nation's history. POTUS Obama was capable of pulling the nation out of the twin tailspin of a shameful era in USA foreign policy and failing economy.

Since then the Democratic party has squandered the opportunity provide and allowed Trump as POTUS and McConnel to render the Senate null and void. IMO this did not need to occur.

Got me in that I compared 2012 a midterm but meant to convey the idea that 2012 was "like a midterm" in how we lost ground.

Essentially by not impeaching GWB and now not aggressively pursuing the Trump impeachment, the bar has been set so low that Trump is correct, Trump could shot someone on 5th Avenue and not be held accountable.

We, the Democratic party, not only has to win elections nut then "seize the day" with aggression to further our agenda. This also should apply to impeachment actions when the malfeasance is so blatant.

The Democratic party will lose votes in 2020 if impeachment is deliberately avoided, time is growing late if not already too late.

[Trumpocalypse]

15. What evidence supports

that the party will lose votes in 20? And I mean hard verifiable evidence. The closest comparison we have is 07/08. The same argument was made back then and proved false.

[brutus smith]

37. Whoa

As other posters have said, and I totally agree with them, not impeaching Bush had nothing to do with the 2008 election. As James Carville always said, "it's the economy stupid".

[Trumpocalypse]

40. I agree

Not impeaching Bush had nothing to do with the outcome of the 08 election. However, many made the case back then that not impeaching would lead to a Democratic Party defeat in 08. That argument was proved false.

[Bradical79]

22. There's no evidence that votes would have been affected either way

Because it didn't happen.

What it did do was normalize war crimes, preemptive war, and the death of hundreds of thousands of people. It also showed future Presidents that there will be no consequences for starting an unjust war, fabricating intellegence, and causing innocent lives to be snuffed out.

[Trumpocalypse]

24. True

There is no evidence that not impeaching Bush depressed votes for democrats back then. Just as there is no evidence that not impeaching Trump now will depress votes for Dems next year.

[Bradical79]

29. Correct. I misunderstood that argument on your part

Doesn't change my stance though. And my personal fear is less about turnout, and more about the integrity of the vote itself. Nothing gets more high profile than impeachment proceedings to lay bare all his crimes thus far. With the nature of his crimes, I think not impeaching emboldens Trump and his GOP to commit blatant voter fraud. They will also be conducting their own investigations of the investigators (and Clinton), controlling the public narrative, giving us Clinton Emails 2.0.

[Trumpocalypse]

34. I get your point

It just means we have to be more vigilant in watching what they do.

[delisen]

45. Dems went into 2008 as a strong party; by 2016 we were a weak party

having lost about a thousand seats across the country. In 2010 we lost the House and got gerrymandered to death; and from 2008 forward we lost significant numbers of votes and voters to a calculated Republican scheme of preventing accurate vote counts, using easily hackable voting machines, suppressing likely democratic votes , decimating democratic voting rolls, not counting legitimate absentee ballots and so on...

Add to that inadequate fundraising for the party.

In short Republicans, lit a fire in their party as soon as the ACA passed and built up their party over a ten year period and we did not.

Add to that failing to know or understand that a foreign government was building a propaganda machine from at least 2014 forward that would have a major negative effect on our election system. We can't win a war we don't even know is being waged against us.

I keep hearing the cries for impeachment but most people I hear it from:
1. haven't even read the Mueller report

2. cannot even list 5 simple, cogent and logical reasons for impeachment and back that list up with even 2 clearly stated facts.

We have a representative democracy. Our house representative are doing something. Where we are having a breakdown in process right now is in the "democracy" part of that.

If even just a thousand citizens who tweet regularly or post regularly would each make their own list of the above it would serve to bring on formal impeachment hearings.

In the absence of that, the representative may have to continue at their own pace or maneuver more Republicans into making a stand

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

11. Youre saying theres equivalency between Bush and Trump - really??? Besides

that was then. This is now.

[Trumpocalypse]

12. No I'm saying that

the same argument was made back then and proved to be false and there is no evidence to support it now.

[PufPuf23]

14. There is no clear evidence that the argument was false because

the argument was never tested by the act.

Whatever the not so long ago past (and the opportunity provided by the unique POTUS Obama), open windows were not pursued and look at the mess that has been the result. Scapegoat the left of center all you want, but that only harms the Democratic party for the price of the moderates not taking an honest assessment of themselves. Same with the Russian input; had the Democratic party kept their own house in order, HRC (or any Democratic candidate in 2016) should have been a walkover against Trump.

[Trumpocalypse]

17. The 08 election is evidence

Dems picked up seats in the House and Senate and won the Presidency. Was it because they didn’t impeach Bush, of course not. There were many other factors and issues at play.

But the argument made back then that not impeaching Bush would lead to a Democratic Party defeat in 08 was proved completely false and there is no evidence to support it now.

[Bradical79]

23. The '08 election is not evidence

Because impeachment didn't happen. There's no evidence that an impeachment would have affected votes either way, especially as one of the worst economic crises in American history was hitting full gear. Bush also wasn't running for re-election.

[Trumpocalypse]

25. It is evidence

that the argument that not impeaching Bush would lead to a Democratic Party defeat in 08 was bogus. And there is no evidence that not impeaching Trump now will lead to a defeat next year.

[brutus smith]

38. Hmmm

That's funny. I remember when Nancy said impeachment was off the table. Had nothing to do with 2008 election. Remember, Bush wasn't running for reelection in 2008.

[Trumpocalypse]

42. But many made the argument

that not impeaching Bush would lead to a Democratic Party defeat in 08. That argument was proved totally false.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

48. NOTHING can be proven one way or another how election would play out. THEREFORE - the question

becomes what is the right thing to do? Why even spin out on the "what ifs".

[Trumpocalypse]

49. Exactly my point

The argument that not impeaching Trump will lead to a loss in 20 is completely bogus.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

50. As is the argument that IMPEACHING Trump will lead to a loss. So then what?

Whats the right thing to do? I say use constitutional mechanism to hold current occupant responsible for high crimes and misdemeanors.

[Trumpocalypse]

59. Again you are right

Both sides of the argument are bogus.

[kacekwl]

19. Bush was a liar and a war criminal

along with Cheney and the rest. I sorry they didn't impeach or at least call them out. But this in my mind is so very worse. Voters and congress were lied to and they had 9/11 to use as an excuse.

[Trumpocalypse]

21. Agreed nt

[gldstwmn]

58. Her refusal to do anything about *

is part of the reason for the mess we are in now.

[Trumpocalypse]

60. Maybe

But that’s not the point I was making.

[Beartracks]

33. Many think both parties are the same. And if both parties tolerate Trump's crimes...

... then they're not really wrong in that perception.

==========

[PufPuf23]

41. I am a voting life long registered and voting Democrat

plus an over educated geezer. Zero intention to ever leave the Democratic party.

All but the worst Democrat pols are better than any pol who goes GOP, the party of selfishness and racism and stupid.

Troubled that GOP administrations in my life from Nixon to Reagan to Bush the elder and GWB the lesser, and now Trump appear to have the license to do as they please and then skate. The Democratic party fails to aggressively rectify malfeasance and, to top that, eats its own, especially new talent with charisma. POTUS Obama was a welcome respite, IMHO prevented a total national meltdown, but the Democratic party as a whole did not take opportunity of the open window with political capital. Now we are losing ground again.

[Bettie]

7. Yes, yes, yes....

Thank you for putting it into these words.

If anyone else had done ONE of the many things we see every freaking day, they'd be gone.

[TCJ70]

10. The Houses refusal to use its power only normalizes Trumps...

...behavior. And it’s very wrong. You were given power. Use it while you have it.

[EleanorR]

16. Current House Investigations

HOUSE INVESTIGATIONS
JUDICIARY: Chairman Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y.

Oversight of the administration's family separation policy

Former acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker’s appointment, his involvement in the Mueller investigation, and his conversations with Trump and involvement with World Patent Marketing

Voting rights and Department of Justice actions on voter ID, census cases

Easing of sanctions on companies linked to Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska Trump's national emergency declaration

The president's "threats to the rule of law," covering three main areas:
1. Obstruction of justice, including the possibility of interference by Trump and others in a number of criminal investigations and other official proceedings, as well as the alleged cover-up of violations of the law;
2. Public corruption, including potential violations of the Emoluments Clause of the U.S. Constitution, conspiracy to violate federal campaign and financial reporting laws, and other criminal misuses of official positions for personal gain;
3. Abuses of power, including attacks on the press, the judiciary, and law enforcement agencies; misuse of the pardon power and other presidential authorities; and attempts to misuse the power of the office of the presidency.

Trump's interference in Time Warner merger

Threats to relocate migrants to sanctuary cities

Reports that the president said he would pardon acting Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kevin McAleenan if he illegally closed the southern border to migrants

Firings of senior leadership at DHS

The administration's decision to stop defending the Affordable Care Act in court


OVERSIGHT AND REFORM: Chairman Elijah Cummings, D-Md.

Oversight of the Trump administration’s family separation policy

Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker's involvement with World Patent Marketing

Reports that the Citizenship and Immigration Services Ombudsman was failing failing to carry out statutory duties to help those applying for legal immigration programs

White House security clearances

Inclusion of a citizenship question on the 2020 census

Easing of sanctions on companies linked to Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska

Delayed back pay for federal workers impacted by the government shutdown

Michael Cohen hush-money payments

Education Secretary Betsy DeVos' efforts to replace her agency's acting inspector general

Transfer of nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia

Child separation actions at DOJ, DHS and Health and Human Services

Communications between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Trump

Michael Cohen's claims that Trump was improperly inflating financial statements

Interior Secretary David Bernhardt's schedules

Trump's threats to relocate migrants to sanctuary cities

Use of private email accounts by Jared Kushner, Ivanka Trump and other White House officials, and use of messaging apps like WhatsApp

Gag orders on White House staff

Title X gag rule regulatory review process

Potential lobbying conflicts of interest involving Environmental Protection Agency head Andrew Wheeler Interior Department's handling of FOIA requests

Abandoning plan to move FBI HQ building from Washington to suburban location Firings of senior leadership at DHS

Trump Administration’s response to hurricanes in Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands Trump Administration’s decision to stop defending ACA


INTELLIGENCE: Chairman Adam Schiff, D-Calif.

Russia investigation, including the scope and scale of the Russian government's operations to influence the U.S. political process, and the U.S. government's response, the extent of any links and/or coordination between the Russian government, or related foreign actors, and individuals associated with Trump's campaign, transition, administration or business interests, whether any foreign actor has sought to compromise or holds leverage, financial or otherwise, over Trump, his family, his business, or his associates; whether Trump, his family, or his associates are or were at any time at heightened risk of, or vulnerable to, foreign exploitation; and whether any actors — foreign or domestic — sought or are seeking to impede, obstruct, and/or mislead authorized investigations into these matters

Whether lawyers for Trump and his family obstructed committee's Russia probe Trump's personal finances, including loans from Deutsche Bank

Use of intelligence to justify building a wall at the southern border

Easing of sanctions on companies linked to Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska Communications between Putin and Trump


WAYS AND MEANS: Chairman Richard Neal, D-Mass.

Easing of sanctions on companies linked to Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska

Trump administration's use of user fees generated by the Affordable Care Act Rule on short-term insurance plans

Trump administration’s decision to stop defending ACA

The president's personal and business tax returns


ENERGY & COMMERCE: Chairman Frank Pallone, D-N.J.

Short-term insurance plans

How the administration is spending user fees generated by the ACA

How HHS is caring for children impacted by the Trump family separation policy

EPA clean air rollbacks

EPA political appointees blocking release of a chemical study

EPA rollback of policies that reduce greenhouse gas emissions to address climate change EPA political appointee steering litigation to benefit former client

EPA Officials ties to Utility Air Regulator Group

Trump Administration’s decision to stop defending ACA


FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Chairman Eliot Engel, D-N.Y.

Communications between Putin and Trump

Trump administration's failure to produce Russian sanctions report


FINANCIAL SERVICES: Chairwoman Maxine Waters, D-Calif.

Easing of sanctions on companies linked to Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska Trump's personal finances, including loans from Deutsche Bank

Trump administration's failure to produce Russian sanctions report

Reported ransom demand from North Korean government related to Otto Warmbier


HOMELAND SECURITY: Chairman Bennie Thompson, D-Miss.

Easing of sanctions on companies linked to Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska

Administration's border security policies

Investigation into Trump threats to relocate migrants to sanctuary cities

HUD disbursement of Puerto Rico disaster relief funds

Firings of senior leadership at DHS

Reports of ICE tracking Trump protesters


NATURAL RESOURCES: Chairman Raul Grijalva, D-Ariz.

HUD disbursement of Puerto Rico disaster relief funds

Interior Secretary David Bernhardt's schedules

Agriculture/Interior Department decisions to further construction of a copper sulfite mine in Minnesota


VETERANS' AFFAIRS: Chairman Mark Takano, D-Calif.

Travel expenses of a political appointee in the Department of Veterans Affairs

Potential influence of several Mar-a-Lago members on VA decisions


EDUCATION AND LABOR: Chairman Bobby Scott, D-Va.

DeVos's efforts to replace the acting inspector general

Administration's decision to rescind Obama-era guidance on school discipline

Trump administration’s use of user fees generated by the Affordable Care Act Trump administration’s decision to stop defending ACA


TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE: Chairman Peter DeFazio, D-Ore.

Trump Hotel lease of Old Post Office building

Abandoning plan to move FBI headquarters from Washington to suburban location

APPROPRIATIONS: Chairwoman Nita Lowey, D-N.Y.

Use of Pentagon funds for border wall

National emergency declaration and border wall funds


BUDGET: Chairman John Yarmuth, D-Ky.

National emergency declaration and border wall funds

[kacekwl]

20. Thank you so very much for the list.

I'm sure some things were left off that very long list.

[stillcool]

30. thank you.

I've just about given up. Guess it's time to take a break. Too many enemies.

[CrispyQ]

31. How many American's are aware of all these investigation?

The lazy MSM will be forced to report on an impeachment inquiry, whereas they can keep a lid on all these other investigations. We need ABC/CBS/NBC & all the Sinclair affiliates reporting on the criminality of Trump. It needs to be on the six o'clock & ten o'clock news every damned day. Impeachment will do that.

[Trumpocalypse]

44. Depends on the what revelations

that come out of those investigations.

[Me.]

39. But, But, They're No Walking On Water

[delisen]

46. Great List!

[LuvNewcastle]

18. I agree. Investigate now!

While we still can.

[rufus dog]

26. Condescending and arrogant isn't it!

Telling us to get on board or shut up in the spirit of unity.

Questioning our intelligence while learning nothing from recent history and immediately trying to shut down any conversation.

And taking shots at other Dems for minor transgressions.

Strange stuff indeed.

[Bradical79]

27. Must happen before November 2020

I'm fine not impeaching at this exact moment, but it will give credence to Trump's witch hunt narrative if the Democrats keep publically pointing out that he's a criminal and then don't take it to the next logical step. I would like to wait at least a little bit to see where the Epstein thing goes, and see if any effort to get his financials bare fruit. Don't know how long we can wait though.

[beachbum bob]

28. If pelosi doesn't find some guts, 2020 will be a lost cause,

Because democratic voters will think what's the point. She is leading America to oblivion. Enough is enough

[Trumpocalypse]

43. In 07 when Pelosi took impeachment of Bush

off the table, many made the same argument that it would cost Dems the 08 election. So how did that election turnout?

[Skittles]

32. yes

it's her job to GET THE VOTES

[Nevermypresident]

35. I'm frankly disgusted re Pelosi's anti impeachment strategy. Harry Reid's former

Deputy Chief of Staff tweeted:



Adam Jentleson 🎈 🐢
?
Verified account

Jul 12

"Re-upping this in light of the news that Mueller’s testimony will be bumped back a week. There is no secret plan to build support for impeachment now and launch it later. The plan is to run out the clock. Agree or disagree with that plan - but know that’s definitely the plan."


Think he might be more privy to what's going on than us DU'ers? I don't know but I'm sick of hearing some here keep saying "she hasn't taken it off the table blah blah blah"

IMO, she is running out the clock. Shame on her for putting party over country and playing politics as usual at this most dangerous time in our democracy.

[Gothmog]

47. How are you going to get 20 GOP senate votes in the real world?

[Grasswire2]

51. stop

not the point.

not the point.

[Gothmog]

54. Impeachment without removal will be seen as trump being vindicated

Link to tweet

[uponit7771]

52. Don't need Senate to follow constitution and hurt Republicans and Trump politically

[Gothmog]

55. In the real world the Senate GOP will quash any attempt to impeach

Link to tweet

?

[uponit7771]

56. That's not a bad idea, it would take away their input and let the house have trials to the chickens

... come home.

That works both ways

[Snackshack]

53. Agree 100%

With everything you said.

Not sure when up holding the law came with an option of doing so only when convenient it is not supposed to be that way but apparently it is. Starting impeachment inquiry would bring to light all the things trump/Barr are trying to hide and support for it would rise dramatically.

[gldstwmn]

57. Just like Richard Painter said on his podcast,

she has one vote and should not be telling Congresspeople that they can't call for impeachment. That is between them and their constituents. It's time for new leadership.