tweets from Justice Democrats' co-founder, Kyle Kulinski (Secular Talk):

[George II]

These are NOT my words, they're Kulinski's.

Link to tweet

[crazytown]

1. Disgusting

not satire

[Skidmore]

2. Looks like standard

alt-right language to me. I don't believe these people are progressive or of the left. Their language and actions belie the labels.

[brer cat]

3. Unbelievable bigotry and hatred.

He is NOT a Democrat not matter what he says.

[Me.]

4. Founding Members Of Justice Democrats

‘On January 23, 2017, Cenk Uygur and Kyle Kulinski founded Justice Democrats with ten others, including former staffers from the Sanders campaign such as its Director of Organizing Technology, Saikat Chakrabarti, and MoveOn.org fundraiser Zack Exley.[11][12][13]”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_Democrats

[oasis]

18. I caught Cenk's "Young Turks" yesterday. He was on an extended rant

against Nancy Pelosi. Cenk worked himself into a sweat, going on and on about her.

[Me.]

23. That Alone Tells You All You Need To Know About Him

[wryter2000]

28. Good grief

Toxic. Venomous.

We cannot let these people have power within our own party. i'm so glad the word is getting out.

Another faux progressive group, and I'm not at all surprised to see people from the Bernie campaign in there.

[Me.]

30. I've Read On This Thread THat He Has Left The JDs

But his tweets are having me believe his mindset is very much with them. Those recent tweets against Rep. Davies is a good example.

[obamanut2012]

5. Someone should send this to the tip line at Jezebel or The Root

For real.

[DonViejo]

27. How about someone just like you send it? For real

[tblue37]

6. K&R for visibility. nt

[mcar]

7. This Justice Democrats leader sure sounds like a

loony tune right winger.

[George II]

8. I think the aura of Justice Democrats is waning. Three of the most visible founders:

Cenk Uygur: Forced to quit (along with another, less known founder) less than a year after they started:

December 22, 2017 ·
Justice Democrats Executive Director Saikat Chakrabarti and Campaigns Director Alexandra Rojas have issued the following statement concerning Cenk Uygur and David Koller.

“Yesterday, blog posts written by Cenk Uygur and David Koller surfaced in which they both made extremely disturbing sexist and racist statements. The entire staff and leadership of Justice Democrats was horrified by these posts. After hearing Mr. Uygur’s side of the story and talking with our candidates, our staff came to the swift and unanimous decision to demand Cenk Uygur’s and David Koller’s immediate resignation from their positions at Justice Democrats.

The words and conduct in Mr. Uygur and Mr. Koller’s posts degrade what it means to be a Justice Democrat. We do not feel that Mr. Uygur is fit to lead or participate in an organization that truly believes women’s issues and the issues of black and brown people are all of our issues. Mr. Uygur decided to resign from the Board yesterday at 11 PM E.T. and he has agreed to remove himself from any and all involvement with our organization. David Koller has also resigned as treasurer of our organization.

Kulinski: quit the next day because he thought Uygur was treated unfairly!! Freely uses words like "faggot", "cuck", "retard", "commie pinko fag"

Chakrabarti: proudly sports a t-shirt with the portrait of a Nazi collaborator who headed up a small army that attacked and killed American soldiers during WWII

Both Chakrabarti and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez were board members of Justice Democrats until mid-2018 (about a year ago)

[mcar]

9. AOC would be well advised to cut ties with these bigots.

[Skidmore]

42. +1 nt

[mopinko]

10. what's that smell i smell? is there a bridge around here?

things that make you go hmmmm.

[0rganism]

11. this reminds me of the James Gunn situation, but with less substance

what do we have here? 4 tweets from 2-3 years back, 1 of which is clearly sarcastic (#4, the follow-up on Nov. 18, 2016). so 3. they use callous, bigoted language, but they are also removed from context. there may well be something ugly happening, but it would be helpful to know more before drawing conclusions.

i'm not on twitter myself, so i don't know how much there is to establish a pattern, but from what i've seen of his videos, he's quite likely to have been experimenting with some of the alt-right language that was becoming popular at the time to trash the left, but instead to attack what he considers right wingers.

i have mixed feelings about Kulinski's content -- to me, some of it is dead on, and some of it i disagree with intensely. i don't share his animosity towards HRC and moderate Democrats, but i understand how some lefties might. this reminds me of the twitter hit the righties called on James Gunn to cast him as a pedophile using decade-old tweets, but this time it's part of the 2020 primary campaign instead of the Stupid American Culture Wars(tm).

[George II]

13. You have no problem with someone in his position using the word "fag", even sarcastically?

Do you know where that term came from? Fag is short for faggot, which is a bundle of sticks that was used to burn homosexuals at the stake. I don't care when he said it, but if you want "context", he said it while he was still on Bernie Sanders' campaign staff.

[0rganism]

14. do you seriously think anyone using that term is calling for the death of homosexuals?

yes, i do know where that term came from, and no it doesn't refer to burning homosexuals. while that is a tempting direction to explore since religious heretics in England were often burned at stake and homosexuality was also a capital offense, it appears to be incorrect as the prescribed method of execution of homosexuals in 16th C England was hanging.

faggot (n.2)
"male homosexual," 1914, American English slang, probably from earlier contemptuous term for "woman" (1590s), especially an old and unpleasant one, in reference to faggot (n.1) "bundle of sticks," as something awkward that has to be carried (compare baggage "worthless woman," 1590s). It may also be reinforced by Yiddish faygele "homosexual" (n.), literally "little bird." It also may have roots in British public school slang noun fag "a junior who does certain duties for a senior" (1785), with suggestions of "catamite," from fag (v.). This also spun off a verb (see fag (v.2).
https://www.etymonline.com/word/faggot
"...The explanation that male homosexuals were called faggots because they were burned at the stake as punishment is an etymological urban legend."

anyway, the suggestion that someone using the term as insulting slang intrinsically wishes violence upon homosexuals is misplaced and ignores common usage. context, right?

[George II]

25. No, and I didn't say that. But the WORD traces back to burning homosexuals alive in England.

It is NOT an "urban legend".

https://www.oed.com/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/67623

A. n.

1. a. A bundle of sticks, twigs, or brushwood tied together for use as fuel.

2. a. A faggot (sense A. 1a), used in the burning alive of people regarded as heretics; (hence by metonymy, in singular with the) this method of execution.

[0rganism]

29. no it does not

"used in the burning alive of people regarded as heretics"
the term originates in 16th C England, where parliamentary law is clear.
heretics were to be burned.
homosexuals were to be hanged.

apparently you didn't read the etymology (also from Oxford) i posted for you. your understanding is simply incorrect. please try again.

[stopdiggin]

33. not where the word came from

stop doubling down on you're slanted (and factually incorrect) post. it's a derogatory term. that's it.

[George II]

38. I trust the Oxford English Dictionary, thank you.

[Me.]

26. It's A Deragatory Term

As any gay person will tell you. That's fine by you?

[dsc]

32. yeah after all he isn't gay so why the fuck should he care

I am betting the last word Matthew Shepard heard was faggot or fag not that this poster would give a flying fuck.

[0rganism]

36. it is indeed, as i said - bigoted and callous

no, it's not okay with me.

unfortunately, it also remains in common use as a put-down. i would like to know if Mr. Kulinski was using that term to jape and parrot some right-winger with whom he was in an argument at the time, who had perhaps just used that term himself.

context matters to me. the presentation of a handful of tweets, in the absence of a pattern of public behavior, is not in itself sufficient evidence for me to draw a conclusion other than "he said it." what did he mean by it? does he regret saying it? does it tell us anything useful about him as a person now?

are you familiar with the James Gunn smear story i referenced? the initial accusations (from Cernovich iirc) took the same form, but were actually more substantial - there were dozens of tweets, and the language used was damning. FOX and AM radio picked it up and amplified it to get Disney to fire Gunn, asserting he was a dangerous pedophile. here's the wikipedia entry:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Gunn#Firing_from_Disney_and_reinstatement

[Me.]

41. Commom Use By Whom, Where?

Only by those who seek to harm and insult. Your 'context' makes no sense as usage does not make it right or in any way acceptable. Just as other words who have been up to now been used as arrows are not right in spite of commonality.

[0rganism]

46. sorry, context matters

who, what and where are quite important, and so are when & why. the world being as complex as it is, the further back something's "when" is, the more i want to know about the "why".

remember how the Democrats used to be the party of the KKK? the right wing trolls certainly do, they bring it up often, and they're not entirely wrong. any progressive who argues this point with them without understanding the realignments of the 1960s is walking into a nasty trap. context matters. always.

> usage does not make it right or in any way acceptable
fair enough. i agree, it is not a healthy part of any polite conversation. however, i think a quick review of the thread will show that this is not so much about the use of the term itself (excepting this subthread), as it is about finding ways to kick around the "Justice Democrats".

here's how the DU thread would unfold if we're talking about the tweets on their own:
OP - "someone said something horribly offensive and hurtful to many people on twitter."
Replies - "sounds awful. must be a weekday."

here's how it might go if we're talking about the specific person's behavior patterns:
OP - "Kyle said something horribly offensive and hurtful to many people on twitter."
Replies - "Kyle is an asshole."
"he does this all the time, what a bigoted jerk."
"sure glad i don't have to work with that guy."
"boycott that guy's shit."

but what we have here appears different:
OP - "Kyle, co-founder of Justice Democrats, a distrusted organization whose other founders have done nasty & questionable things, said something horribly offensive and hurtful to many people on twitter 2 years ago."
Replies - "Kyle is an asshole, and so are his associates"
"Justice Democrats is a hive of scum and villainy"
"Justice Democrats is full of <activists_I_dislike> who aren't real Democrats anyway. fuck them."
"ignore those useless assholes with whom i disagree."

that's why i said it reminds me of the Gunn thing. there's a lot of broad-brushing going on here with some very thin paint. i dunno how it's all going to play out. Kyle Kulinski behaves like an outspoken asshole, of that i have little doubt having watched several of his videos, but that is not the issue here, is it? we know who said what. we know where (twitter) and when (2-3 years ago). we don't yet know why. this asshole makes some decent points in his videos, and (imho) comprehends the malignant mechanics of the alt-right and how to communicate with a younger generation of potential Democratic voters. i don't think these tweets, isolated as they are and taken on their own, are sufficient reason to ignore this person and/or those with whom he collaborates henceforth, nor do i take this to be sufficient evidence of ill intent from AOC or her associates - just my opinion and it could change later.

[Me.]

47. "we don't yet know why"

That's where you begin to lose me. It seems like looking for an excuse to offend or to dismiss such. And some decent points in a video also gets me nowhere. Nobody is claiming he is stupid or unintelligent...offensive, is the word and looking to cause trouble. As for AOC, personally, I don't dismiss her alliance with these people even though she said she has resigned from the board. Her COS, (one of the founders of JDs) is as much a flame thrower as Kyle. His recent tweets prove that and she has yet to have him apologize.

[Drunken Irishman]

51. lmao

I've been on Twitter since December, 2008. Want to know how many times I called someone a fag on twitter?

Zero.

And I tweet - a lot.

[MineralMan]

12. OMG! That's the voice of Justice Democrats?

Hard to believe. Is anyone disavowing his statements from Justice Democrats?

[crazytown]

15. The co-founder

I knew Cenk was a bit off, but this is certainly a surprise to me

[MineralMan]

16. What surprises me is that anyone would use such language

in public. That shows very poor self-control at best, or a total disregard for others' opinions, at worst. Such language means something when you see it used, and what it means is rank homophobia.

[Celerity]

20. Cenk and Kulinski both left Justice Democrats in 2017

It was founded the end of January 2017, and they left in December 2017.

AOC and her staff resigned from the JD board after she won the 2018 Democratic primary in June 2018.


https://www.snopes.com/news/2019/03/07/aoc-chief-of-staff/

In January 2017 Chakrabarti was also co-founder of the “Justice Democrats” PAC, although he was never listed as the committee’s treasurer in FEC filings. He was registered as the entity’s executive director in 2018, although attorneys for Ocasio-Cortez told us he left the board of Justice Democrats in January 2019, and Ocasio-Cortez left the board of directors in June 2018.

But Corbin Trent, the congresswoman’s spokesman, said she left the PAC as soon as she beat Crowley.

“She left the board, I think it was the day after the primary. They just filed the paperwork in D.C. (this month) So there was a change there,” he said.

He also said Ocasio-Cortez sent an email to the Justice Democrats’ lawyer announcing her resignation.

“We all resigned because we thought it was the right thing to do, not because it was the law,” Trent told The Post.

snip

Also, Cenk resigned from JD on December 22, 2017, and Kulinski resigned the next day.

[MineralMan]

21. OK. And yet...

[Celerity]

22. I am not condoning Cenk and Kulinski's actions at all, just showing a timeline

I think some of their actions and words were and are really problematic and some are outright despicable.

[MineralMan]

24. I've never been a fan of Cenk. Not at all.

Not much of a fan of that organization, either. So, I haven't followed its history, frankly. I guess in 2017, their work had been done, eh?

[Celerity]

31. no, Cenk was forced out, the link explains it (you probably recall Cenk's old blog posts) and

Kulinski left the next day because he disagreed with the rest of JD over Cenk.

[melman]

39. "I guess in 2017, their work had been done, eh? "

By which you mean their purpose was to elect Trump. Which is utter bullshit.

[MineralMan]

43. Let me review the post to which you replied...

No, I didn't say that, imply that, or hint at that. You are the one who said it, not I.

You are not a mind reader, either, because that wasn't what I was thinking, either.

Oh, well...

[melman]

44. You didn't say it

but it was heavily implied.

[MineralMan]

45. No, it wasn't.

Because it never entered my mind. That is not my objection to Cenk at all. To learn that, you would have to go back and read posts I wrote about him. You're welcome to do that, if you wish.

You were the one thinking about that, not I. I wonder why...

[sheshe2]

53. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[George II]

40. I pretty much said all of that in post #8. But, even though she resigned from the board....

....in mid-2018, she was associated with all three, two of which were forced out, Kulinski because he thought Uygur and Koller were treated unfairly from Justice Democrats' inception until they left in December 2017. And those horrible tweets were posted in 2016 during and shortly after the 2016 election. Remember all of them were Sanders staffers (except maybe Uyguy) through his campaign, so they were close associates.

However, she still maintained a close relationship with Justice Democrats right through the election in November.

In fact, she filed her Statement of Candidacy using Justice Democrats' address in Tennessee:

https://docquery.fec.gov/cgi-bin/forms/H8NY15148/1161740/

And didn't change it to an address in the 14th District until two weeks after the November election:

https://docquery.fec.gov/cgi-bin/forms/H8NY15148/1291739/

[silentEcho]

17. When I get serious about educating those around me about the primary candidates,

I am going to need a list of Sanders' employees and vocal/media supporters that tell who they voted for in 2016 and the things that they said or are saying now. People around me have not started paying attention yet. All of this will be relevant when the time comes.

[spanone]

19. If this guy is a democrat, I'm the queen of england

[lapucelle]

55. ...

Link to tweet

[SouthernProgressive]

34. I'm sure he and Cenk share similar thoughts. Both sick. NT

[highplainsdem]

35. How despicable.

[Farmer-Rick]

37. Tweets from 2016 and 2015

Seems to me someone is throwing out any dirt they can find on any Democrat.

It just makes me wonder why. I'm holding off on comments. I just don't trust this.

[Cha]

48. Seems nice

!

[Gothmog]

49. Arghh

I do not like Cenk and the Just Us Democrats

[Scurrilous]

50. ...

[betsuni]

52. K&R

[samir.g]

54. what a piece of shit

[LetMyPeopleVote]

56. The brainchild of Zack Exley, founder of Brand New Congress and Justice Democrats.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet