Why don't we have the votes in the House to start impeachment?

[SHRED]

Isn't that a big reason Democrats were elected in 2018?

[Botany]

1. We will.

n/t

[uponit7771]

20. +1

[doc03]

2. Because politicians are concerned about party

than country.

[alwaysinasnit]

3. Yup, too busy trying to keep their jobs to actually do their jobs.

[StarfishSaver]

7. Yes. Because John Lewis, Elijah Cummings, Sharice Davids and Katie Porter are all

just craven politicians who care more about hanging on to their jobs than the good of the country.

[alwaysinasnit]

17. There are always exceptions to every rule. I was not referring to these admirable reps.

[StarfishSaver]

18. So, which Democrats are you referring to?

Since you seem to agree that honorable people can oppose starting impeachment now and not wanting to open an impeachment inquiry immediately is not proof that someone is weak or a sellout or complicit in Trump's corruption - which Members do you believe oppose opening an inquiry now for the wrong reasons?

[alwaysinasnit]

24. There is enormous evidence already of high crimes and misdemeanors. The job of the House of

Representatives, in honoring their oath of office, is to, at the very least, officially signal the start of impeachment inquiries. Naively, I expect that consideration of whether or not the Senate will convict should have no bearing on the House's responsibility to impeach where there is evidence of wrongdoing, which the Mueller report has shown. The fact that there are committees individually addressing presidential (and other administration officials') misconduct is commendable. But sadly, it gives the impression that there is no organized and concerted effort to hold this administration accountable.

[StarfishSaver]

27. You didn't answer my question

Since you think that Lewis, et al, are "admirable ... exceptions" to your claim that Members who voted against starting impeachment today "are too busy trying to keep their jobs to actually do their jobs," which Members were you actually referring to?

[alwaysinasnit]

39. I am not sure if you are looking to get my post alerted on, but here goes. In seeming to hold

herself above the fray, and thereby walk a fine line between the increasing support for impeachment and political calculation of future elections, Speaker Pelosi seems to want to have it both ways. I get that she has done well for Democrats and is a capable and savvy politician, but I don't think it is prudent to bank on next year's election. Given the increasing legal permission to gerrymander and suppress the vote, and in particular, foreign interference, there is no assurance that Dems can increase their numbers in holding the reins of government. Right now, the Republicans own the political messaging. Televised impeachment inquiry hearings are powerful and could do a lot to not only educate the public, but also to sway public opinion (like the Nixon hearings). Additionally, and for me, the most powerful argument for not waiting is the accelerating damage being done to this country and it's people by the Shitstain in the Oval Office and his enablers (think Mitch McConnell). We still have more that a year to go before the next election. The Shitstain is more and more emboldened to think he can get away with whatever he wants. And it's only going to get worse.

[OliverQ]

4. Not enough Democrats care about the criminal monster in the WH.

[StarfishSaver]

8. It's a damned shame that John Lewis, Elijah Cummings, Sharice Davids and Katie Porter

don't care about Trump, isn't it?

[OliverQ]

13. no clue what this ridiculous comment is supposed to me.

I said not enough, I didn't say not a single Democrat.

[StarfishSaver]

19. Lewis, Cummings, Davids, Porter all voted against impeachment today

Do you believe they don't care enough about the criminal in the White House? Or do you think that honorable people can disagree on whether to move forward with impeachment right now and not wanting to impeach now is not proof that someone doesn't care about dealing with Trump?

[StarfishSaver]

25. What an awful thing to write

But since you decided to go there, care to share with us exactly opening an impeachment inquiry today would prevent any of supporters from engaging in violence?

Or are you just trying to provoke a reaction?

[marble falls]

84. Exactly, how awful, indeed.

[StarfishSaver]

81. You think John Lewis lacks courage?

[JI7]

5. no, most ran on saving ACA

especially the seats that went from red to blue

[BigmanPigman]

6. We need to call and pressure our reps. Here is a current list

of all the reps in the House and where they stand on starting an Impeach. Inquiry...
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/05/31/us/politics/trump-impeachment-congress-list.html

[stonecutter357]

9. Impeachment is not going to happen !

[at140]

52. I reluctantly agree that you are right...nt

[Poiuyt]

10. The biggest concern of just about any politician is maintaining their power

The easiest way to do that is by not making waves.

[marylandblue]

11. They were elected to reign in Trump's agenda and save health care.

Outside of political junkies, impeachment wasn't that much of an issue. When I went door knocking in a swing district, I found lots of people who were voting against Trump, but not one mentioned impeachment.

[Bettie]

26. At this point the only way to reign in

his agenda IS impeachment!

[StarfishSaver]

32. How will impeachment reign in his agenda?

[Bettie]

42. Right, we should continue to

be ineffectual.

It's super to nicely ask people to testify and send mild letters suggesting that maybe next time they could maybe show up when subpoenaed. Or to demand documents as part of oversight and then protest meekly....it'll be fine.

But hey, if we lose in 2020, those who demanded no impeachment will get to blame all of us who asked for something to be done. But, I guess nothing ventured is the best course of action, always. Never any risk.

Nothing has ever been gained by taking a risk.

[StarfishSaver]

55. You didn't answer my question

[Bettie]

56. It will shine a light on his various and sundry

high crimes and misdemeanors. It would likely get much more coverage than the stealth investigations currently sort of running. I say 'sort of' because is it really an investigation if you don't have documents or witnesses? It's more like meetings about how sternly worded the letter begging them to pretty please respond to the next subpoena will be.

Oh, and grand jury testimony could be accessed and it should compel release of the full Mueller report and give weight to requests for other documents.

But, I get it.

It. Will. NEVER. Happen.

And we're supposed to be happy about that because dry powder means that if there is ever a mad man in the White House, it will be there, dry and ready for an emergency. If one ever comes up because this apparently isn't one. No one has the will to hold him accountable for anything.

I have lot hope. Utterly. I have accepted that our country is pretty much done.

Yeah, I'll paste a smile on and do what I can for the election, but I believe that we're cooked.

[StarfishSaver]

60. Still didn't answer my question. How will that rein in his agenda?

FYI - the Judiciary Committee can get the grand jury materials without opening an impeachment inquiry.

[Fiendish Thingy]

78. Then why don't they?

If it’s so easy to circumvent all the obstructionists, that what do they need to do, and why aren’t they doing it?

(BTW, Nadler is on record that an inquiry would indeed streamline the process for obtaining evidence and compelling testimony)

[StarfishSaver]

82. That doesn't answer my question either

[Everyman Jackal]

85. If there aren't Articles of Impeachment than the Democrats are telling Trump

he can do anything he wants. If there are Articles of Impeachment the House has more power to get documents and witnesses to testify. At this time without the Articles of Impeachment Trump can say that the Democrats now realize that he did not do anything wrong and he is the greatest president this country ever had. This is one of the things he will run on. He will beat the House Democrats over their heads with this. He will say that the only Democrats that want to impeach him are the ones that should not even be in this great country. He will say that these are the same people who came from shithole countries and after they tore their countries down they came here to tear down our country. He will say that if Mexico can't control these illegal people from entering our great country he will line the border with as many soldiers as it takes to keep our country safe. He will say that these people coming into our great country illegally need to be locked up because who wants rapists and drug dealers coming into our great country. He will say that he is adding another branch to Homeland Security a special force that will protect this great country from these rapists and drug dealers. And that is just the start because he believes that the Democrats are so afraid of him that will just mumble something but they won't do anything. And 2020 the Republicans will regain the House because people will be too afraid not to vote for him or they will be cowering in their homes, keep the Senate and Trump will be reelected and things will get much worse. It is time to do or die and I mean that literally.

[marylandblue]

35. How is impeachment without conviction going to reign him in?

He will not do one single thing differently, impeachment or no. Guaranteed.

But because we have the House, he won't get any crappy legislation through Congress and there will be at least some sunshine on his corruption. Which I think is huge success in these difficult times.

[Bettie]

40. Impeachment investigations are exactly what will

shine that light on his corruption!

Right now, most people think that he is 100% innocent of everything since no one who doesn't pay close attention to politics doesn't know what they are investigating...then again, is it really an investigation if there are no documents, no witnesses, and nothing being done about the absence of both. Is this that huge success you are speaking of?

Fine, no impeachment. We'll just wait for our fair election (hint: it won't be one) and then, once again, wonder how this could have happened.

But there's a mountain of dry powder somewhere.

[marylandblue]

46. Most.people realize he is corrupt and just don't care.

The huge success is that he didn't destroy ACA or Social Security, cut the budget to zero, pass another tax cut for himself or, whether you believe it or not, he didn't dismantle the.government (that is there are still millions of civil servants.doing their regular jobs as best they can, trying to wait him out).

For investigations, I'll take whatever I can get. Most people already know the deal.

[Bettie]

47. And people wonder why I have no hope left

it's pretty obvious.

[marylandblue]

49. I don't wonder why you have no hope left. I wonder why I have any hope.

And my answer is that our real last line of defense is the election. I honestly believe we will win. Not because we are in such great shape, but because Trump is a blessing in disguise. We were ripe for an authoritarian like Trump. We are fortunate that he is so ignorant and blatant, he's done a lot less damage than he could have. If Trump didn't win, it would have been Ted Cruz, who is a lot smarter and sneakier.

[AncientGeezer]

50. We're having investigations now...same issues, same authority...

The legal processes take time. Courts are slow. We don't get special powers because it's impeachment.

[Bettie]

51. We get access to an unredacted Mueller report and

grand jury information. That isn't nothing.

[AncientGeezer]

53. Not without a court order...same with the Grand Jury 6E material.

That doesn't suddenly became free material by labeling it impeachment inquiry.
This will all likely wind up being decided by SCOTUS

[StarfishSaver]

62. Impeachment proceedings aren't a guarantee of getting those things and they aren't the only way

to get them.

The Judiciary Committee has already positioned itself to be able to get the grand jury materials under Rule 6E of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, which governs the release of grand jury materials. The Committee is in the exact same position and has the same standing to obtain these materials as an impeachment panel would be.

And impeachment gives the House no special access to the unredacted report that it doesn't already have.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

72. How's that going so far?

None of our bills are going anywhere in the Senate and the House just voted for the Senate's "no strings" Immigration funding bill. And the ACA? Nothing we can do to fix it while the Senate sits on its hands and Trump is President anyway. And whether or not anybody "voted for" Impeachment, that doesn't mean that we just ignore wrongdoing by this (mis-)Administration.

[marylandblue]

74. Pretty good so far.

ACA won't be repealed, social programs won't be gutted, the budget won't be cut to 0, there won't be another billionaire tax cut, the wall is stuck in court, and every Democrat for the House, Senate, and Presidency has a menu of proposals on which to run. The menu is particularly important for taking back the Senate, since they can choose House bills that would play well in their district.

Everything I hoped for? No. But failure to take back the House would have been treated as popular ratification of everything Trump stands for.

As for as impeachment goes, I know the urge to "do something" can be overwhelming. We say winning is everything, if so, then this is like war, andI'd say our forces are weaker than theirs right now. If that's true, then the best strategy is to delay battle until we are stronger. Moral victories, symbolic victories, history-making stands, "proving" ourselves, exercises in futility, and calling out the enemy for legal violations all feel nice, but none of them are victories in battle.

We've got only one place to gather our forces and make our stand. That is Election Day 2020. If it doesn't contribute to that, it is completely worthless. You may think impeachment contributes to that victory. That's fine, but recognize that the general has decided to use a different strategy and no moral scolding or demands for action can or should change her mind. Good generals set strategy based on their own judgement, not because a bunch of privates thought differently.

[stillcool]

12. full list of those who have taken....

a position. Some provide their reasoning. Nothing has changed. Every day the questions are the same, and so are the answers.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/05/31/us/politics/trump-impeachment-congress-list.html

[Skittles]

14. because someone is not doing their job to try to GET the votes

[Demsrule86]

15. No, accountability but not impeachment...the 40 moderates could lose their seats if we impeach.

Health care also was huge...and not the MFA but the ACA.

[Codeine]

16. I don't think that was the issue

outside of our bubble.

[StarfishSaver]

21. Most people I know aren't that interested in whether he's impeached. They just want him gone in 2021

They're not into making statements the way online activists are.

[Bettie]

29. Do most of the people you know

understand that he has already blatantly said that he welcomes foreign help in the elections? That suppression is still going on and increasing? That this will not be a free and fair election, so we shouldn't be counting any metaphorical chickens at this point?

The fact is, yes, we'd all like him gone, but he may still "win" some how.

2016 was a done deal, or so everyone thought. How did that work out for us? Do most of the people you know have similar levels of confidence that it will go right this time?

Strangely, except for the MAGATs, most people I know wonder what's taking so long.

[choie]

30. Oh? You mean like the statement

that we must hold the president and his administration accountable for breaking the law and administering immoral and unethical policies? That kind of statement?

[StarfishSaver]

31. Yeah. Like that kind of statement. Precisely

Because most people out in the real world who don't have the luxury of spending their time arguing with strangers on political websites are just trying to get through their days and want Trump gone - and would much rather expend their energy voting Trump out of office next year and aren't all that worked up about "holding him accountable" through a process that won't result in his being removed from office.

[choie]

75. hmmm so our democracy be damned huh?

what arrogance to think one speaks the truth amd ohers are merely "arguing wih strangers" If one doesn't want to epend energy - don't reply to others' posts.

[GulfCoast66]

22. That was not remotely the reason we won the house!

We flipped all those republican districts to work on healthcare and strengthen social programs.

We forget that at our peril. 2018 was not a victory for the progressives side of our party but the average moderate left Democratic Party.

If we go down the impeachment path many of those house districts will switch back. Which is why the house does not support it.

I love DU. But never think the membership here represents democrats as a whole. Most have never heard of it.

[StarfishSaver]

28. Everything you said is true

[GulfCoast66]

34. I can't see what is so hard to understand?

I can understand and share the visceral detest we all have for him. And he truly deserves impeachment and conviction. But we live in an imperfect world and have to play things as they exist. Not as we want them to be.

And Jesus, every time you post I mentally kick myself for being such an asshole to you when you chimed in. It’s a valuable lesson I need continual reminding about!

Keep posting.

[StarfishSaver]

36. So true

And stop kicking yourself! Shit happens ...

[GulfCoast66]

41. What can I say...I'm Southern. Being polite was beat into me. Literally.

I won’t mention it again.

You have a very nice evening.

[StarfishSaver]

54. I understand

And I appreciate your kindness.

You have a good evening, too.

[marylandblue]

37. It's hard to understand because we are political junkies.

We watch every little tweet and we don't realize most people aren't. Just like real junkies don't understand how anyone stays off drugs.

[GulfCoast66]

44. Oh, I understand.

And am not worried. The republicans struck too early. They have their villains. Once we have a candidate they will be talking about things Americans care about. And the candidate will easily brush off our more progressive members as Americans representing their districts, not the party as a whole.

And the republican attacks on these few candidates will be as effective as their tying 2018 to Nancy Pelosi. Which they went all in on. We saw how that worked out for them.

[TwilightZone]

43. Agreed.

How quickly we forget.

[GulfCoast66]

45. Notice how none of our front runners are getting too involved too much in this?

They know where victory rests.

[emmaverybo]

59. +1000

[Trumpocalypse]

71. Well said nt

[DemocraticSocialist8]

33. Because SOME Dems are putting politics ahead of accountability

That's what it ultimately boils down to.

[GulfCoast66]

38. But this is all political! Politicians do politics!

If we impeach and it fails, and it will, we will likely lose the house. And maybe the Presidency. Most Americans don’t want it and we did not win the house to impeach but to protect healthcare and shore up social programs.

That is the only thing we need to push. Making life better for Americans.

Everyone on DU thinks he deserves impeachment, myself included. But I recognize DU does not reflect America or even lots of democrats. Most have never heard of it. Most Americans want government that works to make their life better which is why the Democratic Party did so well in 2018. We dare not take our eye off that ball.

[DemocraticSocialist8]

57. We'll lose the House based on what? That's acting out of fear, not strength

We won't lose anything if we accept that the country supports Progressive policies like Medicare-for-All and stop fighting against what the People want.

You either believe in accountability or you don't. The Democrats spent 2 years talking about the Mueller investigation just to get the report and not do anything about it. They knew back in 2017 and 2018 that they wouldn't have the Senate. So that's not a new revelation.

If you don't even attempt to hold Trump accountable, you embolden him. Nothing else will matter frankly.

[GulfCoast66]

63. Hell, I don't support Medicare for all! Most democrats don't when given the details.

And sure as hell most Americans won’t. Medicare for all only works by eliminating all employer based healthcare. That is not something we can run on.

Elections are where politicians are held accountable.

[DemocraticSocialist8]

64. This is just a lie. M4A is incredibly popular when politicians aren't lying about how it works

[GulfCoast66]

65. Telling the majority of voters that get their healthcare from their employer

That our new plan will take it away is political suicide.

And acting like Medicare for all requires anything less is actually the lie.

That is why it can’t pass the House today.

Don’t confuse universal healthcare with Medicare for all. They are different things. A majority of Americans support healthcare for all. There are smarter and actually achievable was to accomplish it other than Medicare for all.

Medicare for all will never happen.

[DemocraticSocialist8]

68. Literally like 70% of the public disagrees with you and the majority of Americans support it

So calling it political suicide is extremely hyperbolic. It WILL happen once Americans get people who represent them better into these positions and not people who put the health insurance industry over lives.

[GulfCoast66]

69. I doubt 70% of DU members support it.

Polls mean nothing unless the question is put in context.

Which is how pollsters can get the results they want.

There is a reason the house is not about to pass Medicare for all. If 70% if Americans were truly for Medicare for all it would have already passed.

We are not going to vote in a system that removes the current healthcare from a majority of voters for an unproven, unfunded promise.

There are much better means to achieve Universal Healthcare. Means which actually have a chance of happening.

[DemocraticSocialist8]

73. So polls mean nothing when you disagree with them? Gotcha

I guess that's how you come to the conclusion that M4A isn't popular when just about every data point says otherwise lol.

DU isn't representative of the public at large. The majority of Americans don't even identify with either political party. The number of Independents is nearing 50% lol. They're easily the largest voting bloc in the country and have been for a number of years now.

[Trumpocalypse]

70. Based on that there are 31 House districts

held by Democrats that Trump won in 16. And the GOP only needs to flip 18 seats to win back the House.

Plus Democrats didn't spend 2 years talking about the Mueller investigation. Candidates spoke about things that mattered to people like the economy, healthcare, etc.

[Codeine]

48. Impeachment is supremely political.

It’s a political punishment enacted by a political body after a political process. In the end the worst that happens is removal from a political office.

Sounds like politics to me. The decision to undertake such an action can only be appropriately measured with a political yardstick; the risk needs to be worth the reward, and at the moment we can be assured that there is no reward at all in the offing.

Besides, impeachment without conviction isn’t accountability by any definition. It is, in fact, the very opposite.

[DemocraticSocialist8]

58. I don't see it as being political if you have crimes you can accuse him of committing

It's only political if you try to impeach and you don't have anything to go on. That's not the situation we're in.

[onenote]

61. This wasn't a resolution to "start" impeachment.

It was a resolution to impeach based on the claim that Trump is unfit to be president, citing his racist tweets.
Nothing about obstruction of justice, russian tampering, etc etc.

It was half-baked and Green was foolish in offering it.

[Trumpocalypse]

66. No they were elected

because of healthcare, the economy, immigration and many other issues, not to impeach Trump

[myohmy2]

67. "Why don't we have the votes in the House to start impeachment?"

...ask Nancy...

...I'm sure she could find the votes if she wanted to impeach…

...the question is, "Why doesn't she want to impeach?"

...impeach...

...

[FiveGoodMen]

80. I'll bet it's the same reason she didn't want to impeach the guy that lied us into war

[Skittles]

76. because Pelosi is not trying to get them

[pamdb]

79. impeachment votes

It doesn't matter. The Senate will block it. It may make the democrats feel good, but nothing will come of it and you know McTurtle will never allow it to come to the floor and if it did, it would be defeated. Waste of time and energy and might, might make his supporters and people who were
on the fence (although I don't understand how anyone can be on the fence) to support him.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to be able to get rid of him, but it's not going to happen unless they catch him in bed with a live boy or a dead girl. (Gov.Edwin Edwards of LA) And probably not even then.

[brooklynite]

83. It is absoluletly NOT the reason Democrats were elected...

If you asked any House or Senate candidate from a swing district, they said that voters weren't bringing up Trump, or Russia, or Impeachment. They WERE bringing up Health Care (the top issue), jobs, education costs, immigration, etc.

[Everyman Jackal]

86. Stop talking about impeachment.

If the time comes for that then do it. It is Articles of Impeachment that are needed. Bring everything up. Subpeona everyone. Subpoena every document. Create havoc for the Republicans. Don't let up. No one can stop it except a majority of House members.