General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNo American should ever again ask, "How/Why did it happen in Germany"
We're seeing it up close and personal. It's been building for decades. And it has now come to the point where between 30% to 40% of Americans are eating shit and believing it's sirloin.
Germany, in the early 1930s, was an "advanced" country by most metrics. But during a period of a few short years, they plunged into barbarism. They turned from the future to the past. They embraced a self-destructive nationalism. They were manipulated by a small group of clever/malignant people who were seeking absolute power. And hatred of "The Other" was one of their major tools. -- Not every German bought into it. But enough did.
The majority of Americans denounce/reject Trumpism. But you don't require a majority to succeed. All you need is just enough people to buy the snake oil/drink the Kool-Aid/believe the well-packaged hate/spread the poison/become infected with the disease/despise their fellow human beings.
Not only can "it happen here." It's been happening here, in slow motion, for about 50 or more years. In short, John, Martin and Bobby are dead and Nixon's "Southern Strategy" has spread throughout the land to the ignorant everywhere. (Hatred, bigotry and ignorance don't recognize state lines.)
Perhaps the biggest lesson humanity can learn from this era is that bigotry/hatred outweigh self-interest. Those being hurt most by Trumpism are the MAGAs. Yet, they seem to have no problem fucking up their own well being, as long as they can "get the THEMS."
Does this tell us that hatred of "The Other" is stronger than self interest? I can't say for sure, but it certainly seems so. And if that's true, it makes humanity a suicidal species.
Disagree with this? Well, take a look at some old photos of what Germany looked like in 1945 after the civilized world bombed them into total rubble.
No one is going to bomb us back into the stone ages. But when/if another world war occurs, it will last for perhaps a few hours and then, humanity will be over. We will have turned out to be an evolutionary mistake.
Republicans refuse to learn from history. What about the rest of us? Have we learned? Do we finally "get it?" And the biggest question of all: What are we going to do about it?
Skittles
(153,147 posts)no doubt about it
dalton99a
(81,443 posts)FirstLight
(13,360 posts)I feel as if I am watching a dystopian reality unfold before my eyes...on SO MANY LEVELS
And also feeling the helplessness of my own circumstances to do anything...
Damn, o can barely keep my own head above water....how do I fix the broken govt?
whathehell
(29,067 posts)and it's not going to become it. I get that things are bad, but I see no value in hyperbolic doom and gloom
Cyrano
(15,035 posts)So exactly when is that line crossed?
Ignoring the rule of law?
Concentration camps on our southern border?
Taking a crap on the Constitution?
You call a comparison to Nazi Germany "A tad premature,..." So exactly when do Americans decide that it is no longer "premature?"
Let me say this, whatthehell. Most human beings don't wait until they've fallen off a cliff before reaching for a lifeline.
If you can look at the world of Trump, and think that anything short of a vision of doom and gloom is justified, I believe you are somehow missing what most people would call reality.
However, please let the rest of us know when our fears/beliefs are no longer "a tad premature."
I'm not mocking your belief. I just think that you are badly mistaken.
People just want to stick their heads in the sand and believe "laws" will prevent it from happening here.
Bettie
(16,089 posts)"laws" aren't a thing if you have an "R" after your name.
triron
(21,995 posts)Agree 110% with your post. Our local paper is in the same boat.
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)1930s Germany and 1940s Germany. We're definitely in 1930s Germany territory, and yes it can happen here. Why would you think it can't?
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)whathehell
(29,067 posts)"Yes it can happen here"? .
Anything is possble, but it's very unlikely, due, for one of thing, to the historic differences between 1930's Germany and 2019 America.
Unlike 1930's Germany, we are not less than twenty years out of an imperial monsarchy. We are a two century plus democracy with long established democratic institutions.
pnwmom
(108,974 posts)They didn't start out by murdering millions. They started out with hate and deportations.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)whathehell
(29,067 posts)that we are, in fact, pre- kristallnacht -- Thanks in advance.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)whathehell
(29,067 posts)Unfortunately I can't be drawn into a discussion on it until you do.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,323 posts)whathehell
(29,067 posts)Enjoy the paranoia. The rest of us will continue to think rationally.
triron
(21,995 posts)whathehell
(29,067 posts)"Be afraid..Be very afraid".
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Bettie
(16,089 posts)positive and hopeful? Because I'm not seeing any.
We have a guy at the head of government who is untouchable in terms of law. He and his minions have declared they are absolutely untouchable and it seems to be the case, given that they have a complicit Senate and a timid House.
Same guy has already announced that he will accept any and all aid from foreign governments for his next campaign of destruction, there has been nothing to secure our elections, we have concentration camps operating in our borders (and they are celebrated by the orange thing's fans), and currently one in five of our federal judges were appointed by the orange pustule. And that is just a small portion of the fuckery going on.
So, tell me where the hope is there? Where? Because I'm having a hard time seeing it.
At one point, I thought maybe an impeachment inquiry would bring it all into the open, but I've given up hope for that ever happening at all.
SO, all of our eggs are in the basket of an election that is not going to be free or fair.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)but those who seem to want to invoke Chicken Little with his falling sky seem to prefer the "Be afraid..Be very afraid"! mantra, so you'll have to forgive me if I choose not to waste my time again..
Stinky The Clown
(67,786 posts)The OP is right. It IS happening, right now, today.
The parallels to Nazi Germany are, of course imprecise. That was then and this is now. But comparisons to the overall trajectory is spot on.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)That used to be a DU Truism, and AFAIC, still is.
This IS a bad time, but equating it to a regime that systematically murdered 6 million, is way over the top.
Takket
(21,555 posts)The OP isn't saying "drumpf is rounding up and killing 6 million", the OP is saying parallels can be drawn between the rise of the Nazis in Germany and the rise of the modern Nazi (the MAGAt).
The dehumization of non-whites, concentration camps on the border, weaponization of "patriotism", ICE.... etc.
Bettie
(16,089 posts)"Oh well, it all seems awful and no one is really doing anything to stop it, but gosh darn it, no one has come knocking on my door yet, so it's all good!"
I'm not able to do that.
Response to Takket (Reply #22)
Post removed
whathehell
(29,067 posts)Of course I see paralles between the rise of European fascism 80 yesrs ago, but the OP pushed it further, making it a fait accompli, basically saying "We are now Naxi Germany", which we clearly are not.
PufPuf23
(8,764 posts)(and natural resources), are we as bad as Nazi Germany? Our feckless leader thinks this talk is OK and the act(s) to be considered.
What if we start putting people based upon race in internment camps? Oh yeah we are already.
What if the domestic opposition to this evil is not effective?
What if the evil crazy is normalized?
How far can the USA go down the rabbit hole?
whathehell
(29,067 posts)"If" is the critical word here. The point is, the OP wasn't talking about a "what if" future, he was talking about the Present Reality.
PufPuf23
(8,764 posts)the "What ifs" I mentioned have already happened or are happening and Trump has raised the specter of using nuclear weapons.
Shit could get very ugly very fast say if we go into a competitive war.
Lock him up.
(6,925 posts)... looking at how little emergency there is in actually solving it...
humanity really is a suicidal species...we're like past to point of no return.
21 degrees Celcius at just 600 kilometers from the North Pole happened this week!
Never seen before.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,321 posts)I don't have twitter, but saw #NeverAgainIsNow in some OP here on DU. It is chilling to be unable to refute that.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)0rganism
(23,938 posts)the massive increase in background radiation should provide plenty of opportunities to push through some incredible adaptive pressure
here's hoping the cockroaches do better long-term than us.
OhZone
(3,212 posts)Retrograde
(10,132 posts)I'm currently reading this 1935 novel by Sinclair Lewis, and it's frightfully prescient. I'm up to the part where the newly-elected Hero of the People "cleans up the swamp" by jailing his enemies in Congress and forcing through a measure to void Supreme Court rulings he doesn't like.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)wide. Thousands upon thousands of rich and/or powerful ppl see democracy as having ran its course.
Hekate
(90,641 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Hekate
(90,641 posts)...and finally, this year, a recognition of how otherwise decent Germans/Austrians were bulldozed, numbed, and silenced by the viciousness that overtook and ruled their nation.
My MIL was raised in Vienna, Austria, a city of culture -- music, the arts, science, philosophy, so advanced in every way. Her parents had immigrated from Russia, but even they could not see what was coming. She could: it was a feature of her psyche that she knew when to jump. So finally she got two of her sisters and their families on the train to Belgium just ahead of the Anschluss, and still not all of that group survived.
I think of them often these days, and wonder what I can do. I pray I can be of use. I think America, this country where I was born, so long a beacon of democracy, arts, science, and mostly goodhearted and well meaning people -- being swept under by this tide of viciousness led by the minority -- and I think we are in for a long period of darkness that I can only pray I live to see the end of.
dawg day
(7,947 posts)The country was taken over by total evil.
And then, after the defeat, Germany (with enormous help from the Allies, and being broken up by the USSR) crawled out of the pit and became a relatively good global citizen.
Decent leadership can make a big difference in a nation's path. Trump will take us to hell, if you don't mind my using that term. But we don't have to stay there.