And people wonder why I hate pit bulls?

[Archae]

29 cats mauled to death when dogs break out of cage at animal shelter

DOTHAN, Ala. —
Two city officials say an Alabama animal shelter’s outdated equipment allowed two pit bulls to fatally maul 29 cats.

WTVY-TV reports the dead cats were found Thursday by workers at the Dothan Animal Shelter.

https://www.wisn.com/article/29-cats-mauled-to-death-when-dogs-break-out-of-cage-at-animal-shelter/28517328

[hlthe2b]

1. You and Michael Vick...

This should never have happened and wouldn't in a well-run shelter that protects its animals, professionally assesses its animals and never lets possible redline animals pack together. No dog of unknown background should be housed anywhere near cats until a thorough behavioral assessment has been performed. Nor should any shelter rely on mere wire kennels to restrain and contain. Good shelters hire professionals to construct and manage the facility. Obviously lacking here, but sorry, Alabamans, I am NOT surprised. Those pitbulls may well, given the locale, have been fighting animals trained to attack small prey. It is unconscionable that they were housed anywhere near cats nor together in nothing more than pen confinement.

[emmaverybo]

32. The problem is that many animal care and control shelters are not well-run either because they

lack the resources or those in charge are politically appointed and do not carry out the “care” part
of the mission or even, effectively, the “control.” Behavioral assessment is often cursory and carried out by people without the qualifications to do the job.

Everything you say is 100 percent true, point by point.

[treestar]

85. that's interesting, is there a way to take a behavioral assessment of dogs

and what is it like and how are the conclusions made?

[hlthe2b]

86. there is behavioral training available at multiple levels, from basic to PhD-level

and yes, better shelters incorporate this daily. Talk to your own shelter how they assess for a better idea.


Here's a start:
https://www.maddiesfund.org/behavioral-assessment-in-animal-shelters.htm

[treestar]

98. thank you

[Doreen]

2. Hmm, working with dogs on a proffesional level

most of my life I have seen ANY breed has that potential to kill cats or any other creature in that manner. There is also the fact of pack mentality. Sorry to tell you this but Golden Retrievers, Labs, Standard Poodles, Great Danes, and yes, most definantly small breeds also are capable of the same thing as ANY other breed.

When animals come into a shelter you have no clue what has happened in their life to make them one way or another. Even animals turned in by owners may have issues.

Yes, this is a horrible thing to happen and had not been properly analyzed for basic temperment. I suspect that none of those kennels were sufficient to keep animals in or out.

Having 11 and a half years of being an assistant groomer, 4 years of being employed in animal shelters, and many years of being a sitter for animals in truth I would rather bathe, clip nails, feed, or walk a Pit Bull than a poodle, Shih Tzu, Pomeranian, or Lhasa Apso.

As I said however, any breed is capable of anything like this.

[SouthernProgressive]

4. "small breeds also are capable of the same thing as ANY other breed. "

That is highly inaccurate.

"As I said however, any breed is capable of anything like this."

That is highly inaccurate.

[Doreen]

8. It is hard to be "inaccurate" when you have

personally worked with dogs most of your life. Working with animals as I have you tend to be in close communication with others on the same professional level ( assistant groomer ) and higher ( veterinarian) and talking about their experiences with different breeds of animals. They will all tell you the same thing about ANY breed having that potential.

Yes, small breeds are capable of this. However, because they are small they tend to cause less dammage and their capabilities to get in or out is harder but if the right setting occured they would do the same.

[SouthernProgressive]

9. "It is hard to be "inaccurate" when you have personally worked with dogs most of your life."

Clearly it is not.

"Yes, small breeds are capable of this."

No, not really.

"However, because they are small they tend to cause less dammage and their capabilities to get in or out is harder but if the right setting occured they would do the same."

Lots of clean-up there but it's still inaccurate.

[Doreen]

13. Say what you think the truth is but

working with animals most of my life ( I am not 15 years old either ) I have come to the realistic conclusion of how it really is.

[SouthernProgressive]

14. Your reality involves the possibility of two Bichon's killing twenty-nine cats.

Like these Pit Bulls did. That's not reality.

[Doreen]

15. NO, you are not really paying attention to WHAT

I am saying. I NEVER said two Bichons could kill 29 cats!! They Do have the same abilities to attack cats and other creatures and cause death or damage. I am saying the TENDENCY to bite, attack, damage, or kill is no different from a Pit Bull and any other breed.

I am sorry the way my last post was but I have never in my life had someone tell me in so many words or directly tell me that I am a liar.

[SouthernProgressive]

16. I appreciate that you are changing your wording to more accurately reflect reality.

"I NEVER said two Bichons could kill 29 cats!!"

Exactly. They pose no where near the danger of Pit Bulls.

"As I said however, any breed is capable of anything like this."

That is where the claim started.

[Doreen]

24. Sorry for my crappy wording.

I love ALL breeds but I know full well they ALL have potential to cause damage on one level or another.

I am also realistic enough to know some breeds need to have dog experience owners as each breed does have their issues but as I have always said "there are no bad dogs, just bad or unknowledgable owners."

[SouthernProgressive]

25. +1 NT

[Everyman Jackal]

42. I understood perfectly all of your posts

you are correct but some people just like to argue.

[Doreen]

50. I do not like to argue.

I am just passionate about helping people understand that ALL dogs no matter how small or big or what breed they are all are capable of doing the same thing. Just on a different scale do to size.

[Everyman Jackal]

64. I understand that you were not the one arguing.

People don't realize what even a small dog can do to a baby even if does not mean to.

[Doreen]

73. I talked to a lady years ago about her daughter coming over

with her baby just old enough to sit and play with toys and when the baby was sitting in a corner engrossed with playing with his toys they let her poodle in and it made an unprovoked bee line for the baby and tore half of his face up.

People do not report small dog bites or attacks near as much as they should. A lot of people have the attitude that if a small dog bites then you did something to hurt or scare the poor little thing. If a large dog attacks for any reason they are vicious. Big dogs are not supposed to react to getting hurt or scared I guess.

[leftyladyfrommo]

29. And cats can fight off small dogs.

I have border collies and I don't trust them around cats or even small dogs.

[Doreen]

54. I have seen the cat lose to a small dog before

and it is not pretty. OK, I did not see it personally but I saw the cat and the owner told me what happened. The cat was bigger than the dog ( poor cat is going to be to ashamed to let his fellow cats see him. ) He almost lost an eye, has a crooked tail now, a chunk of ear missing. The dog has scars on his face and got bit on the neck but the little bastard still won. If the dogs buddy had been inside they would have done it together and the cat would be dead.

[emmaverybo]

40. Small breeds are capable of inflicting damage when they bite and can, as larger breeds, be

prey-driven. However, larger breeds potentially inflict greater damage. A Malamute, for instance,
capable of pulling over 1,000 pounds of weight can certainly pull your arm clear off if he seizes it.

Bad cross breeding, too early a separation from litter, can result in a dog with serious behavior
problems, a dog who poses a lethal threat to people and animals.

A standard pit bull, the breed once called a nanny dog, does not grow to be 100 to 125 pounds as
we often see today among pit bulls cross bred with mastiffs and other large dogs for the purpose of guarding and fighting.

These are actually hybrids. Still, many can be rehabilitated or, if not trained to fight, can become ideal family members with the right training and competent handling. Remember too that people who fight dogs often abuse them, do not neuter them, and encourage extremely bad behavior.

At least half of the time a pit bull is blamed for a tragic incident, that dog’s breed has been misidentified or the dog is a mix concocted by backyard breeders.

Stopping horrible events such as the one at hand, painful to consider even, is not a matter of banning a breed, but of identifying dogs with behavior problems and either addressing these or
if it is determined that the dog can not be rehabilitated seeing that he or she is properly contained
or euthanized.

Many so-called behavior problems, however, are caused by human guardians.

Size does matter, but it is not size or breed that alone determines if a dog will turn dangerous.

[SouthernProgressive]

43. Spot on. NT

[Drahthaardogs]

121. Pit bulls operate from extreme prey drive

They have weak defensive drive, and its generally why they suck at protection work.

That being said, my Kurzhaars and Drahthaars are very prey driven and will kill a cat if it runs and triggers that drive. They kill raccoons and hunt boar too as well as birds.

A real German teckle will fight a badger. It is what they were bred to do.

[samnsara]

52. ..but with small breeds you can basically pick them up by the scruff of the neck to seperate them..

...I have 3 Goldens and two terriers..we dont panic when the two little ones start to go at it. We hollar TERRIER FIGHT and a glass of water will end it. If our Goldens ever fought it would take a 2x4 to break them up. When a dog with as much jaw grip as some of the bull breeds.. PSI... attacks..they do a hell of a lot more damage than my rat terrier..even at his worse day.


But to be fair..the only times I have been bitten or chased has been by a chihuahua...( but i didnt fear for my life or feel I was in any danger)

[SouthernProgressive]

55. The only times I have ever been bitten, other then by my own dog, was by smaller dogs.

My current Bichon has never bit me. My last 55# mutt did. Loved that dog. 16 years.

I never have fear for my Bichon other than it being attacked. Then I just pick it up. When my 55# mutt would be attacked, the fight that would follow would be horrific. There was a guy at a dog park with about a 45# Pit. It was threatening dogs all over. When it threatened mine a fight broke out. I got between them and beat the Pit on top of the head with the handle to my leash. His owner was all of the way on the other side of the park. By the time he got there his Pit had blood all over him. One of the most frightening moments of my life.

[pnwmom]

7. That isn't in line with reality. Small dogs are capable of biting, but their bites

are not nearly as likely to be FATAL. And cats fight back.

Two 9 pound Shihtuzs or toy poodles could not kill 29 cats, but two forty pound pit bulls could.

[Doreen]

12. I realize fully that they do not cause as much damage

because they are small but they would do the same thing if the setting is right as it was for those Pit Bulls.

Yes, their bites can be fatal even if the cat fights back. I realize they could not kill 29 cats but I am saying they have the same potential to pack together and kill a couple of cats.

[zackymilly]

19. I'd rather be attacked by 40 2-pound poodles than 2 40-pound pits. n/t

[LisaL]

30. But those darn poodles can lick you to death.

[Meowmee]

102. This

It is a fact and statistically proven which breeds cause more damage and deaths and it is not smaller breeds. Large breeds are the ones who attack more and who do more damage with pit bulls at the top or top three. Hating them is not the answer. It is part of their instinct and then human training or lack of it plays a role.

[LakeArenal]

104. Yes and on a carnage level...

My neighbor’s aided and abetted feral cats have wrecked havoc numerous times on my bird feeders.

[SouthernProgressive]

3. This is a tough one for me.

Pit Bulls have their issues. They also have benefits and really are great dogs for some people.

One thing I do know is that before someone or something goes wrong there is normally a human that was suppose to be responsible for the dog who made an error.

I don't understand the people that think Pit Bulls are nothing but all love and cuddles. Just as I don't understand the people who think they are vicious mauling machines that should never be owned as a pet.

[a kennedy]

5. don't think these are pit bulls, but another horror story about dogs killing other animals.....

The Elbert County Sheriff’s Office is looking for two dogs they think have killed more than a dozen farm animals in the past two weeks, including at least 12 alpacas and four goats

Undersheriff Dave Fisher said the pair may be responsible for even more attacks. The killings, most of which have occurred at night, may have been going on for several months, bringing the total number of animals dead to more than 30. The Sheriff’s Office has received no reports of the dogs injuring any humans.

Nine of those alpacas belong to Ray Engelke. He found them dead on his property Thursday morning, in the barn. First, he found a dead alpaca outside and then the eight others were inside.

“I raised them all from crias [young alpacas]... It just kills me," he said. "I’ve never seen anything so horrible in my life."

Engelke also spotted the two dogs near the carnage. He stayed long enough to snap a picture, then put some distance between himself and the dogs and called the sheriff.

Marlgozata Gorneiwicz-Portsche said she believes the same two dogs killed three alpacas on her property nearby. She and her husband found their alpacas dead in the yard Tuesday morning.

“I am very upset. I am heartbroken,” she said.

https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/elizabeth-residents-on-edge-after-dogs-kill-12-alpacas-4-goats-in-2-weeks/73-7da933f7-6592-4ec0-b6c4-f726e569de52

[ProudLib72]

18. Well, just great. I'm moving to Elizabeth in a week

To a house in the country that has chickens, a duck, and a turkey.

[a kennedy]

49. Damn.......hope your feathered friends can remain alive.....

[UniteFightBack]

6. Put your hate where it belongs....on people. I don't hate any animal...I feel bad for you. nt

[essme]

11. Why? I hate them too

I hate that they are still bred- and that so many are in shelters. I hate that people get them not having a clue in hell as to what those dogs are capable of.

Don't bother telling me that "any breed can be mean." No shit Sherlock. We have owned a 15 pound terrier for over 15 years-- we know full well what that little snit can do. We have had to pick her up on almost every walk we take her on because she's adorable looking, and people let their huge dogs and small children run up to "pet her."

I have YET to see someone that can control their 40 pound plus terriers like we control ours.

Good friend of mine got a rescue "pittie." She posts adorable photos of her- This woman has grad degrees from top universities. We won't visit her, nor invite her to visit us unless "Fluffy" is boarded. Why? Because she said it takes the dog "about three days to get used to people."

Yeah.

[JonLP24]

10. A female actual American Pit Bull terrior are not very big

"Pit bull" is often an umbrella term for mollasor breeds.

Me personally I'm more scared of humans.

[standingtall]

17. Most dogs do not like cats unless they have been socialized to be around them

they are natural enemies. I know many people don't believe that in this post modern world, but it is still a fact. Many other breeds of dogs would've done the same thing. The blame here belongs to the animal shelter not the dogs.

[Act_of_Reparation]

20. Pro-tip:

Saying "it's a fact" doesn't mean it's actually a fact.

[standingtall]

22. and saying it isn't doesn't make it not a fact

we have had thousands of years of study to support it. Just as natural for dogs to not like cats as it is for cats to hunt rodents and small birds.

[Act_of_Reparation]

28. Yeah, that's not actually how the burden of proof works.

Dogs are territorial. It is in their nature to seek out and defend territory, often violently. It doesn't make the slightest difference if the trespasser is a cat or an anthropomorphic peanut; they're gonna get wrecked.

But, if you're going to insist that felids are the yin to the canid's yang, then all you gotta do is identify the "HATES CATS" markers in the canid genome. Should be easy enough, for one of your expertise.

[standingtall]

34. Dogs and Cats do not like each other and it is natural

with the exception being when dogs and cats have been socialized to be around each other. Dogs do not like cats and there are reasons for this. I did not use the phrase hates cats, and besides that is a human emotion anyway.

https://www.canidae.com/blog/2017/11/are-dogs-and-cats-natural-enemies/

The burden of proof isn't on me the burden of proof is on the other side that thinks cats and dogs are just naturally suppose to love each other. Any scientific study on gene markers cannot wipe away thousands of years worth of historical record.

[Everyman Jackal]

45. Since moving to rural NC 20 years ago

my wife and I have rescued more than 15 dog and 4 cats. These were done at different times and we never had a problem with any of the animals. 2 Years ago one of our cats left and didn't come back for a week. When he returned he was followed by a hen. The hen likes to spend time with that cat and our Bluetick Coonhound. I could not give you a reason why.

[stopdiggin]

44. easy there

Your "dogs are territorial" is also an over simplification. Some dogs quite obviously are not. No problem at all sharing their space! Behaviors are complex. Several posters have also pointed out the "pack" thing. It IS a phenomena. On the other hand it is not represented in all dogs, or groupings of dogs. Cats and dogs? Same thing. There are clearly some dogs that despise cats (and will try to do harm). It's a real thing. But it probably doesn't hold up as a generalization.

[alphafemale]

96. That is bullshit.

Maybe dogs owned by assholes and trained by the SIC EM! command by humans that hate cats.

I've had cats and dogs my entire life.

Including stray dogs as a kid until we could re-home them.

The dogs and cats always got along.

[standingtall]

99. dogs do not need to be trained to attack cats

it's is natural for dogs not to get along with cats. Regardless of breed and breeds aren't a natural thing anyway.

Dogs can be socialized to be around cats especially dogs who have been around cats from a young age.

I know plenty of dogs that can live with cats too, but that does not change the nature of dogs and cats.

Harmful to continue promote the idea that dogs and cats are just naturally suppose to be the best of friends.

What is going to happen is there are people who already own cats are going to go out and adopt a 4 year old labrador and then they are going to be pretty upset when that dog mauls their cat, because they thought dogs and cats not liking each other was just a myth.

[LexVegas]

21. Ban the breed. nt

[zackymilly]

23. A friend called me and asked if he could put his two pits in my fenced in yard.

He said his insurance agent was coming over and they will cancel him if he has pits.
I told him sorry, no, even though my 2 rescues would be in the house during this time.

[lindysalsagal]

27. If insurance agencies reject them, it's because they've got solid data....

[lindysalsagal]

26. I was stalked by a neighbor's pit bull once, in my own yard. I called the police.

I love dogs but this really scared me. It didn't attack, probably because I didn't look it in the eye, acted casually, slowly backed away and slammed my exterior door. It didn't know my property, or me, so it didn't know where I was going.

If I had not been so well informed, and had panicked, I'll never know what it would have done. But it was on my lawn, looking down at me from a stone wall, and we had never met...

Even after I got inside the house, it held ground, watching both of my exterior doors, waiting for me to re-appear, for over 10 minutes.

Sorry, but labs and terriers and collies and lapdogs don't do that. It was absolutely acting like it wanted my leg and it had a plan. The plan involved me.

It lived just across the street, and could have been home in 3 seconds, but it stayed right there on my property, where it had never been before (They never take them out of the house) until the police called them and they came out of the house to get it.

And yes, at the time, they were using them to guard drugs, and the seller eventually went to jail on multiple counts...

[58Sunliner]

56. Scary! My neighbor across the alley had a huge male pit that bit my hand -

while he was walking the dog on a leash. I was terrified to go out in my fenced backyard even with a gun until he got rid of it.

[lindysalsagal]

77. I believe it. They're so fast and smart and strong. And deadly.

Hope your hand is ok.

[58Sunliner]

79. I was lucky.

[LisaL]

31. Really? They haven't made a decision on what to do with those pits?

I suppose they think these dogs are adoptable?

[quickesst]

33. Natural Born enemies

.... what if two full-grown healthy cats got into a small enclosed bird sanctuary filled with birds for one night. What would someone expect to find the next morning? Would you blame the cats and kill them? Would you blame those in charge of the cats and birds for putting these animals in a position that all but guaranteed something like this would happen? Or would you understand that cats and birds are natural born enemies and this scenario should never have been allowed to come together in the first place? What if it were cats and mice? Kill the cats? What if it were Birds and insects? Kill the birds? What if it was lions and deer? Kill the Lions ? What if it was dogs and cats?

[LisaL]

35. Natural born enemies?

A lot of people keep dogs and cats together with no problems. Not all dogs are cat killers. We used to have a dog and a cat together and nobody got killed.

[quickesst]

57. There are many animals

..... That have cohabited with other animals who are natural enemies but in the large scheme of things, it is very rare. They are usually raised together from the start. I found a baby doe with a broke leg when I was a young man in Arkansas. Took it to my uncle's house on his farm where he rehabbed the doe who ended up a full-grown deer lying in his front yard with five deer hunting Bluetick hounds. Normally, those hounds would be hunting that deer named Tinkerbell down for the kill.

[Phoenix61]

37. Not a good analogy at all.

Other dogs were in the same area as the two pits and never pushed their way out to get to and kill the cats. Different breeds were bred for different things so have different characteristics. Pits have a strong prey drive. It’s not their fault. It’s their nature.

[standingtall]

41. And you think no other dog ever tried to?

The article states they had outdated equipment pretty sure it wasn't always outdated so it had been worn out. I bet there were more pit bulls there too probably about half the dogs there were pit bulls, because they are over breed. Your right it is not their fault, but not because of there breeding, but it is natural for dogs to not like cats.

[Phoenix61]

47. It's natural for dogs who were bred to hunt

to see small furry animals as prey. This is local news for me. I can assure there wasn’t an incident there like this previously. There was, however, an incident at a local vet where a handler lost their arm when a pit attacked a small dog the handler was holding.

[standingtall]

48. Again their equipment is outdated of course there was not an incident like that there before

All dogs have natural prey drive even the smaller breeds.Breeds are completely man made all dogs have natural prey drive. The fallacy of your argument is no "other dog clawed their way out to get to cats" is there were other pit bulls there too according to your logic then sense only 2 pitbulls got loose no other pitbull would if you were being consistent with your logic.

[quickesst]

58. I know it's not a good analogy

It's a bunch of good analogies. Other dogs are not nearly as strong and determined as pit bulls. That is in their nature. The drive to kill is instilled by human beings. Other dogs may not have killed those cats, but given a chance they would have chased after them till their hearts gave out.

[Phoenix61]

82. Prey drive is not "instilled by human beings."

It’s bred into the breed. Like fetching is bred into retrievers and herding is bred into border collies.

[quickesst]

107. Miss this part?

"The reality is that dogs of many breeds can be selectively bred or trained to develop aggressive traits. ... And the simple fact is that dogs of any breed can become dangerous when they're intentionally or unintentionally raised to be aggressive.” All dogs, including pit bulls, are individuals."
https://www.aspca.org › about-us
Position Statement on Pit Bulls | ASPCA

A dog trained to be vicious.
https://m.

[Phoenix61]

108. No, I didn't miss any part

The reason there are different breeds of dogs is due to years and years and years of selective breeding for specific traits. Some dogs, pits and several others, were bred to have a strong prey drive.

[AndJusticeForSome]

38. Great points nt

[quickesst]

59. I thought so

.... and all I had to do was use a little common sense and logic.

[LisaL]

46. Even if cats got out of their cages in a shelter and killed some birds, you wouldn't have to worry

that these cats kill a small child if adopted, would you?

[quickesst]

68. Not really, but it's.....

..... Only a fool with children would adopt a full-grown Pitbull, Rottweiler, German Shepherd, Irish Setter, etc, not knowing anything about their temperament. Same with cats. might not be able to kill a child, but can damn sure maul the shit out of them with their claws. Common sense.

Here is the ASPCA statement on pit bulls.
"
The reality is that dogs of many breeds can be selectively bred or trained to develop aggressive traits. Therefore the responsible ownership of any dog requires a commitment to proper socialization, humane training and conscientious supervision. Despite our best efforts, there will always be dogs of various breeds that are simply too dangerous to live safely in society. We can effectively address the danger posed by these dogs by supporting the passage and vigorous enforcement of laws that focus, not on breed, but on people’s responsibility for their dogs’ behavior, including measures that hold owners of all breeds accountable for properly housing, supervising and controlling their dogs. Breed neutral “dangerous dog” laws, “leash laws” that prohibit dogs from running loose off their owners’ property, and “anti chaining” laws can control the behavior of individual dogs and individual owners and thereby help reduce the risk of harm to people and other animals.

Laws that ban particular breeds of dogs do not achieve these aims and instead create the illusion, but not the reality, of enhanced public safety. Notably, there are no statewide laws that discriminate based on dog breed, and 18 states have taken the proactive step of expressly banning laws that single out particular breeds for disparate legal treatment. Even the White House has weighed in against laws that target specific breeds. In a a statement issued in 2013, President Obama said “[w]e don’t support breed-specific legislation—research shows that bans on certain types of dogs are largely ineffective and often a waste of public resources. And the simple fact is that dogs of any breed can become dangerous when they’re intentionally or unintentionally raised to be aggressive.”

https://www.aspca.org/about-us/aspca-policy-and-position-statements/position-statement-pit-bulls

[pnwmom]

109. And yet most healthy dogs wouldn't have entertained themselves by killing 29 cats,

even if they were locked together in the same room.

And 29 cats should have been able to handle a pair of non-vicious dogs.

[quickesst]

112. I've already addressed that

They may not have killed 29 cats, but it may not have been for lack of wanting to. What everyone seems to be missing, or wanting to miss, is that those two pit bulls were in the pound for a reason. More than likely that reason is because they were trained to be aggressively vicious, by, well let's say..... perhaps a human being? Replace those pets in your video with a dog trained to attack, no matter the breed, and your video would have been a series of 2 second clips and not nearly as funny.

[pnwmom]

113. A high percentage of dogs in rescues are pit bull mixes because they are the ones

most likely to be given up. That's not a coincidence.

They weren't just trained to be aggressive. Many come from lines of dogs that were selectively bred to be aggressive. While retrievers were being bred to retrieve, and sheep dogs were bred to herd, pit bulls were being bred to fight.

[quickesst]

114. They were not being bred to fight other dogs

They were originally bred for their ability to neutralize large animals such as bulls, bears, and boars. The dog fighting came later when people discovered they could exploit them for profit.


Many years ago, pit bulls were considered “Nanny dogs” because of their loyalty and gentleness toward their guardians. They were also once an American favorite, earning the title “America’s dog.”

Unfortunately, people soon found ways to exploit pit bulls’ behaviors and tendencies for dog fights, and their strong appearance became a symbol of violence, drug culture and gangs.


5 Reasons Why Pit Bulls are Misunderstood

Myth 2: Pit bulls are born to fight
Pit bull dogs are not born ready to rip into another dog, animal or human being. They are trained to fight by people who are interested in making a profit and providing “entertainment” in the form of a dog fight.

These dogs are forced to fight to the death in many instances, and those who cannot go on are abandoned, or killed by electrocution, gunshot, or other cruel means. It is then not the dogs who are cruel and vicious, but rather those behind their training.

Myth 3: Pit bulls are naturally violent, aggressive and mean, and are very dangerous dogs
Pit bulls are not inherently dangerous. Like any other dogs, they can become violent, aggressive and mean through a lack of training, abuse, neglect and irresponsible ownership and breeding as well as a lack of attention to health and temperament issues. If they are treated with respect and trained properly, pit bulls will be less likely to exhibit negative traits—just ask a loving pit bull adopter! (Again, it’s important to note that any dog can have aggression problems or display aggressive behavior.)

In fact, according to the American Temperament Test Society, American Pit Bull Terriers, the most popular breed used in dog fights, have a very high temperament passing rate of 82.6 percent. Even dogs commonly thought to be kind and gentle (and they are, with the right care) like Bearded Collies and Chihuahuas scored lower than American Pit Bull Terriers.

Myth 5: Pit bulls have a high bite rate
Dog bite statistics are often unfairly skewed to paint pit bulls as the primary perpetrators. Moreover, dog bite or attack stories involving a bully breed are typically written in a way that demonizes the dog and sensationalizes the story, further fueling fear and misconceptions about pit bulls.

According to the American Veterinary Medical Association, “It is not possible to calculate a bite rate for a breed… [because] mixed breeds are commonly described as purebreds … [and] the actual number of bites that occur in a community is not known … if they did not result in serious injury.”

This is not to say that certain dogs are not responsible for bites or attacks. Rather, it highlights that perhaps there is more to the story than is actually being reported (i.e. poor training and care, and in some cases, the victim has actually provoked the dog).



https://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/5-reasons-why-pit-bulls-are-misunderstood/

[pnwmom]

117. That test by the "American Temperament Test Society" is a joke.

The only dogs that participate are the ones whose owners decided to have them tested. So there's no validity to projecting the results of any of these groups of dogs on their breeds in general.

[quickesst]

118. if you say so

Do you have a reliable source condemning its validity? If so, I will gladly concede that point.

[pnwmom]

119. It condemns itself. Just read the website. Any researcher could tell you that a self-selected

sample won't project to the general population.

It might be useful to an individual pet owner as a measure of how well their dog did on the particular test items. But it won't give you valid results for comparing different breeds.

https://methods.sagepub.com/reference/encyclopedia-of-survey-research-methods/n526.xml

Self-selection bias is the problem that very often results when survey respondents are allowed to decide entirely for themselves whether or not they want to participate in a survey. To the extent that respondents' propensity for participating in the study is correlated with the substantive topic the researchers are trying to study, there will be self-selection bias in the resulting data. In most instances, self-selection will lead to biased data, as the respondents who choose to participate will not well represent the entire target population.

[quickesst]

123. A dog does not get to choose....

......whether or not if it wants to participate in a study.

"In most instances, self-selection will lead to biased data, as the respondents who choose to participate will not well represent the entire target population"

I think I'm going to leave this conversation where it is, and be completely satisfied that my presentation is more than adequate.

[pnwmom]

125. No, but the dog's owner does. The characteristics of an owner who would choose

to bring his or her dog to be temperament tested are unlikely to represent the overall population of dog owners.

[stopdiggin]

126. that's not "representative" of the argument at all

you asked for relevant resources. You got them. Probably better off leaving it at that.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

36. To all the defenders of pit bulls.

Why do we never read articles headlined
"Toy Poodle Mauls Child"
or
"Pack of Vicious Dachshunds Terrorize Neighborhood"
or
"Chihuahua Bites Flight Attendant, Requiring Five Stitches."

Very often the dog identified is a pit bull. Isn't that odd?

[ProudLib72]

63. Here

Boy, 4, killed by family Labrador in horror attack: https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/boy-4-killed-by-family-labrador-in-horror-attack-20160817

Dog killed 2-month-old baby, ripped child’s legs off while father slept in other room: police:

The baby was in a swing when Lucky, a golden retriever-Labrador mix, bit the child several times and tore off his legs, authorities said.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/dog-killed-2-month-old-baby-ripped-child-legs-father-slept-room-police-article-1.1065711

Chesterfield woman hospitalized after golden retriever attack: https://www.nbc12.com/story/21752552/chesterfield-woman-hospitalized-after-golden-retriever-attack/

Tiny Chihuahua called Chelsea on 'death row' after savaging woman: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tiny-chihuahua-called-chelsea-death-7539181

And finally:

Pit Bulls Are Chiller Than Chihuahuas

New evidence suggests that in many situations, America’s most feared dog is as docile as other breeds.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/09/pit-bulls-are-chiller-than-chihuahuas/500558/

[Niagara]

66. +1000

Thank you, ProudLib72!

[ProudLib72]

67. Those are only a few of the hundreds

I didn't want to spend all day, so I spent 10 minutes. It is truly amazing what you can discover by using Google.

[Niagara]

72. I found stories where pit bulls and rottweilers that

have saved other animal and human lives.

So I wanted to say thank you!!

[Niagara]

70. There have been many news pieces and articles

about pit bulls and rottweilers saving other animals, their human family members and random human strangers. They're not all trying to harm and maul people.


I once went to a Pampered Chef Party where a domestic house cat had recently given birth and she attacked a group of children. The mother cat sunk her teeth into the buttocks of a young child. The owners of that cat had her put down after this incident. The reality is that the owners of the mother cat should have gave her a safe place to nurse and nurture her kittens away from any guests. It was a terrible ordeal.

[TalenaGor]

71. Chihuahuas actually are one of the most aggressive and violent dogs

[pnwmom]

110. And yet because of their size they are unlikely to be able to kill a cat. nt

[Eugene]

39. I've known two pitbulls who live/lived with cats.

In general, pitts are powerful, strong-willed dogs that need responsible raising and handling.

[58Sunliner]

51. They are unpredictable. Insurance companies covering rentals will cancel your insurance for pits.

It is grounds for being evicted by many property owners if you do not get rid of the dog. And then people abandon them because they can't keep them. Sad cycle.

[Freddie]

62. Check out rescues

At least around here the VAST majority of the dogs in shelters and rescues are pits or pit mixes. There’s a reason. Couple years ago my daughter and her husband wanted to get a rescue dog. Daughters best friend is one of those who thinks all pits are lovable lap dogs. I found them (and paid for) a lab puppy before they could start the rescue thing and end up with a pit bull; my grandkids were 5 and 1 at the time. That was NOT happening.

[58Sunliner]

80. I know, I feel sorry for the dogs.

I knew a pit mix who was a real sweetie, but I would not have left it alone with a child. Good for you, labs are great family pets. We used to have a German Shepard/standard collie mix-smartest dog I've ever known.

[Freddie]

100. She's the best dog ever

Wonderful with the kids. Personally I would prefer a smaller dog but now I see why they’re so popular.

[IcyPeas]

53. omg those poor cats

[NickB79]

60. I've seen a few farm cats killed by dogs

Not a single one was a pit bull.

I've seen a pack of mixed-breed dogs rip into a cow in the pasture. Again, no pitbulls.

[hunter]

61. Dogs do what dogs do.

I've been there and it sucks.

[TalenaGor]

65. (Pics) I dont think you can sterotype dogs anymore than you can humans...

I blame the humans for that horriffic mauling....

Meet my family of 3 pitbulls and 3 unmauled cats




Lexi(Dog) and Daphne(cat) sleep together almost every night - we often see daphne licking Lexi's head but its pretty hilarious when Lexi lickes Daphne

[Niagara]

75. Your "kids" are adorable!

[TalenaGor]

76. thank you

[RichardRay]

69. What's a 'pit bull'?

For lots of folks, a pittie is any shorthaired, stocky dog that bites a person.

[Politicub]

94. Is this question the same as, "what's an assault rifle?"

Actually, a pit bull is the canine version of an assault weapon, now that I think about it.

[RichardRay]

111. Is it? I don't know.

I just know dogs. I don’t know as much about guns.

[Autumn]

74. That's sad. My Grandson and his wife have a Pit. He's the sweetest loving dog I have seen.

He gets pushed around by her cats and he sleeps and cuddles with her Chiweenie. When he's in the yard the neighbor's Jack Russell picks on him through the fence and he goes to the corner. I think the animal shelter is at fault here.

[Newland56]

78. There is a reasom

There is a reason nearly all people who fight dogs choose pit bulls to fight.
It’s because of their potential to inflict the most damage on the dogs opponents.
People do not choose bichons or poodles or collies or labs.
These dogs are incredibly powerful and have a greater potential to cause death to people or other dogs or animals that is greater than any other breed. That is why they are chosen by by dog fighters and why there are more reports of people being killed by them.
They do not possess any more innately aggressive tendencies than any other breed with the same treatment but when things go bad with them the results are almost certainly going to be more serious.
I know if I’m attacked by a dog and had my choice of breed pit bull would be at the bottom of the list.

[Captain Stern]

81. Lots of good info on this thread..I've learned a lot.

But here's what matters about this story:

Alabama animal shelter’s outdated equipment allowed two pit bulls to fatally maul 29 cats.

Dogs are dogs, and cats are cats. Dogs do dog things, and cats do cat things. They're both great, even though they both kill other animals.

If a few more dollars were spent by people, none of this would have happened.

[pecosbob]

83. I think hippos kill almost 3000 people a year in Africa

I don't hate hippos.

Re-write the circumstances as 'animal shelter air-conditioning malfunction kills 29 cats during sweltering weekend' and there's no issue but the animal shelter's negligence.

[Beringia]

97. BBC says hippos kill 500 people a year

Ungainly as it is, the hippopotamus is the world's deadliest large land mammal, killing an estimated 500 people per year in Africa.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-36320744

[MicaelS]

84. A friend has a pit bull rescue.

The only danger from this dog is being kicked to death or knocking over things from the strength of her wagging tail.

And in case that does register with you, then here's one that might.

One could easily say:

I hate cats. Feral and household cats kill millions of song birds. Birds are much nicer than cats. All feral cats should be immediately killed.

Now whose ox is being gored?

[standingtall]

89. Dogsbite.org is not an objectice source that site is propaganda and has been debunked many times

https://adbadog.com/truth-behind-dogsbite-org/

[Buckeye_Democrat]

90. American Dog Breeders Association (Wikipedia article)

The American Dog Breeders Association (also known as ADBA) was started in September 1909 as a multiple breed association.[1] The residing president, Guy McCord, was an avid fancier and breeder of the American Pit Bull Terrier and was a close friend of John P. Colby. Colby was the mainstay of the ADBA and therefore it was considered the "home" registration office for the Colby dogs.[2] All members in good standing could register their dogs and litters for the yearly fee of $2.50. The exclusive member’s idea gradually was replaced by a registry open to all owners and breeders of purebred dogs. Over time the association focused on the registration of the American Pit Bull Terrier.[3][4]

The ADBA passed to the hands of Frank Ferris in 1951, who ran it with his wife, Florence Colby, wife of the late John P. Colby. He ran the ADBA on a limited scale but with increasing emphasis on the registration of the American Pit Bull Terrier. In 1973, through the recommendation of Howard Heinzl, Ralph Greenwood and his family purchased the ADBA from Ferris, whose advancing age prompted his retirement. Heinzl was a friend of Frank Ferris and a staunch supporter of the ADBA, as he registered his dogs exclusively with ADBA.

The association continues to grow in the USA and other countries. The ADBA is the largest registration office of the American Pit Bull Terrier and is now accepting other purebred dogs, usually working breeds.[5] The ADBA is the accepted standard for American pit bull terriers in the United Kingdom.[6]

Beginning October 27, 2006 the registry is opening its stud book to accept other purebred dogs.

Bottom line for me... some breeds are capable of far more damage when they bite.

I'm likewise leery of people who openly carry guns, despite how I'm certain that MANY of them are "good guys with a gun".

[standingtall]

91. Not sure what this reponse is so suppose to mean

the adba provided links to other organizations that refute the claims made by Dogsbite.org. So it is not just their word.


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/merritt-clifton-pit-bulls_b_5866176

In this article by the huffingtonpost the founder of dogsbite.org is referenced as a fraud

[Buckeye_Democrat]

92. I'll remove it then. Whatever.

I regret that I even posted in this thread because I'm NOT passionate about it at all. There's far bigger issues for me.

I'm leery about pit bulls and other large dogs, just like open-carry gun owners, because they clearly can do a lot of damage in a split second.

I have no doubt that MANY pit bulls are gentle and loving. That's not the point to me.

[Polybius]

88. The pit bulls knew that the cats were zero danger to them, but they killed them anyway

Fuck them, they are butchers. Send them to a pack of wolves and let's see how tough these pit bulls really are.

[Politicub]

93. Cue the, "but muh sweet pittie wouldn't hurt a fly. I leave him alone with my babies," people

to make an appearance in this thread.

My silky terrier was attacked by a pit bull who was able to escape though the window in the back of a parked truck. His owner was close and tackled him. Our terrier was hurt but he was patched up. It was a miracle he didn't get killed.

I'll never be able to erase the image of him being shaken like a rag dog. He stopped wanting to go on walks after that.

I hate pitbulls.

[Dawson Leery]

95. My parent's neighbor got a Pitbull pup and he was very aggressive.

One minute his jumping up and down happy, the next he is angry and growling. When two of these monsters maul 29 cats, you cannot deny there is a problem here.

[pnwmom]

101. Our thirty pound dog was attacked from behind by a pit-bull mix and a German Shepard.

My son, who was hiking with our two small dogs, kicked the large attackers off their victim -- who ran away as fast as she could. My son had to go after our dog and, of course, the owners of the attacking dogs had disappeared by the time my son returned, our dog in his arms. She needed $800 of surgery to repair her injuries.

I was so grateful that my son didn't get injured.

[Archae]

103. A good friend of mine several months ago, had a pit bull attack their dog.

They had a medium-sized mixed breed, and one day out of nowhere a pit bull showed up, and attacked.

Killed their dog, and my friend's family shot and killed the pit bull.

Otherwise it would have attacked them too.

Damn thing had a collar, name tag, the owner of the pit bull threw a royal fit about his "gentle wonderful dog" getting shot and killed.

Now two (JUST two!) pit bulls go on a rampage and kill 29 cats.

[flvegan]

115. No, nobody wonders.

Fragile little you know what.

[akbacchus_BC]

116. It's not the breed, it is the owners who train them to be vicious. Mankind is its own enemy!

Pit Bulls can be just as nice as German shepherds. I am uncomfortable being with big dogs except for German Shepherds.

[alphafemale]

120. It was dobermans ---- rotweilers ---- German shepherds

Other breeds in the past that people demonized and jerks acquired for their reasons of cruelty.

[stopdiggin]

127. yep, and do you see a pattern here?

breeds developed for their abilities. Doesn't seem fair to castigate the public for having a fear of these breeds .. when in fact that was a large part of their SELLING point. Seems just a bit disingenuous? Pit bulls (and yes very few "pure" pits, but that's merely deflection) have become enormously popular for certain reasons. I'll leave the decoding of those motivations to the sociologists, but .. Let's not all pretend that pit bulls exploded in popularity because people envisioned them as a "nanny dog." Try pulling the other one!

[pintobean]

122. Luckily, most people here

don't apply this type of small-minded intolerance and hatred to humans.

Blaming the breed is simplistic.

[mountain grammy]

124. I grew up with a wonderful boxer..

best dog ever, kind, loyal and loved, but she killed cats. I remember two instances with the neigborhood cats. My dad, being the decent, honest man that he was, spoke with the neighbors and offered to have our dog put to sleep. Our neighbors loved our boxer as much as we did, but most of all respected and loved my dad too, so we kept our dog..

The blame was with us and we were forgiven. The dogs do what dogs do. The shelter is 100% at fault here.

[democratisphere]

128. Sorry. There is absolutely no excuse for this.

Negligence rests on the workers at the shelter for not securing the dogs properly.

NOT ALL PITBULLS ACT THIS WAY AND MOST ARE GREAT FAMILY MEMBERS AND PETS.