The Impeachment Story is Developing

[MineralMan]

It's a slow fade into reality. There are no quick cuts in politics. You don't get one scene that instantly switches to another one.

A lot of people have been dissing Nancy Pelosi over impeachment. That probably should stop. It's on the agenda, but isn't necessarily the entire agenda.

Let it play out. Let it develop into what it will become. Let Speaker Pelosi work behind the scenes without disruption.

Seriously. If you take the film out of the developer bath too soon, you don't get the full picture.

This is not a half-hour situation comedy. There won't be any quick cuts in this movie. If you're not part of the development and production crew, you don't even get to see the script.

[Gothmog]

1. Nancy Pelosi Doesn't Have The Votes To Impeach Trump

Link to tweet

Pelosi’s majority includes 31 members who represent districts Trump carried in 2016 and could face electoral danger. Impeachment might accomplish little more than energizing Trump 2020 voters.

Close Pelosi allies insist she couldn’t gain majority support for impeachment even if she tried, not to mention the two-thirds of a Republican-run Senate needed for conviction and removal from office. “There will never be 218 in the House,” a leadership aide told me.....

The votes aren’t there. The 31 Democrats who represent districts that Donald Trump won in 2016 can see that impeachment is not popular with voters in general. If these nearly three dozen Democrats want to win second terms and keep the House in Democratic hands, they feel the need to stay far away from impeachment.

Blaming Pelosi is both easy, and it displays a fundamental ignorance of the dynamics of this Democratic House majority.

Robert Mueller’s testimony was an important step, but unless public opinion changes and a whole bunch of House Democrats change their minds, impeachment won’t happen in the House before the 2020 election.

[MineralMan]

3. She knows exactly what he has in terms of votes.

That's her superpower. Others have other superpowers.

Stuff is happening, but it's happening where I can't see it, you can't see it, and the Republicans can't see it.

The set is closed. The script is under lock and seal. We'll have to wait for the first trailer to get a clear idea of what's in the final release.

[Wellstone ruled]

37. We are on the same page

as to how this plays out. Nadler's Team is in charge of crafting the Documents and that door appears to be cracked open.

Looks like the House is waiting on Documents coming out of Court cases,and once those are in hand,we are off to the races.

October seems to be the target for things to break. There are Budgets that need to be settled first,and all those who want IT NOW best think about what a Governmental Shut down will look like this time around.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

44. If they actually get Trump's financial numbers

and still don't act, you know the fix it in. The Money tells all and that is why Mueller and crew never went there....

[Gothmog]

53. The House should be able to get these documents

The DC Circuit heard the appeal on the accounting firm case last week and it did not go well for trump. The House Ways and Means lawsuit is strong and should prevail

[cbdo2007]

64. Why are you counting votes before the hearings?? That doesn't make sense.

That's like counting the first 5 votes for President and calling it for the whole country.

A. A vote is a vote...speculation is not a vote yay or nay.

2. All the evidence needs to be presented before a vote

[StarfishSaver]

75. A good Speaker counts the votes constantly

That's an important part of the process to get the numbers you need.

[Funtatlaguy]

2. McGahn is the key. If he sings, Trump is toast.

[FakeNoose]

4. He already testified to Mueller for 30 hours

They have McGahn on the record. The House investigation just needs to get their hands on it, Chump is already toast.

[stopdiggin]

40. anything that is redacted in the report

is an easy (and completely defensible) "I cannot answer that due to .." in any congressional testimony. Not to say pulling him in isn't worthwhile. If only to prove they CAN and should.

[MineralMan]

5. He's one key, but there are many locks.

Several keys will be needed, and they know where those keys are.

[RKP5637]

6. Agree!!! It should play out ... n/t

[Cirque du So-What]

7. My desire for instant gratification will not be assuaged

Following any sort of orderly process is for cucks. History is made by those who lash out blindly.

[MineralMan]

15. You're welcome to lash out as you see fit.

That word you're using, "cucks," is a shitty word. It's one being used by the Trumpsters and right-wingers all the time. I recommend finding a new word to use here. Really.

[Cirque du So-What]

21. I really need to use the sarcasm thingie

[MineralMan]

26. Yes. Apparently so.

I'm not seeing your posts often enough to get a good handle on where you're coming from, frankly.

So, maybe you do need to use the smilie when you're being sarcastic. There are people saying similar things here to what you said that are not being sarcastic at all.

[StarfishSaver]

19. Actually, history and change are made by those who DON'T lash out blindly

[Cirque du So-What]

23. I really need to use the sarcasm thingie

[StarfishSaver]

25. You sure do!

You got me!

[wryter2000]

62. I got it the first time

Don’t tell me I’m smarter than you because I’ll never believe it.

[StarfishSaver]

65. Went right over my head!

[emmaverybo]

33. And that is all we would gain, a kind of temporary bandaid for our frustration and anger until

the senate refused to convict and Trump declared himself exonerated despite two Dem party “witch hunts,” the Mueller investigation and house impeachment. “Lashing out blindly” would give him a boost he can not otherwise gain.

Yes, I spotted the sarcasm. But when you get that close to reality in a parody, you are subject to
being accused of holding the views you mock. Have had it happen to me.

I don’t see any sarcasm smilie here. Where can I get one?

[Fiendish Thingy]

38. Your fear based defeatism is getting the better of you

Some things are more important than elections- protecting the Constitution is on of them.

[emmaverybo]

67. Don't insult me. Just state your point. NT

[ehrnst]

71. That's some fear based defeatism right there. How is the constitution in danger

if we don't impeach?

And is it less in danger if we lose the House and don't get the Senate as a result of impeachment?

[Fiendish Thingy]

73. It sets a precedent for what a President can get away with, and the relinquished power of Congress n

[StarfishSaver]

76. Impeachment without Senate conviction can set the same precedent

[Fiendish Thingy]

77. False

If Congress uses their power to impeach, regardless of the Senate’s action, how does that set a precedent for relinquishing power?

[StarfishSaver]

79. Think about it

[Fiendish Thingy]

81. I did- I'm right, you're wrong

Seriously, how is failure to impeach not both dereliction of duty and a total relinquishment of Congressional oversight power, checks and balances, etc.?

[StarfishSaver]

82. Ok

[ehrnst]

84. No, Starfish is right.

Here it is again:

Impeachment without Senate conviction can set the same precedent.

Ford pardoning Nixon to protect him from the criminal consequences of his actions when he resigned to avoid set a precedent. However, the constitution was not harmed or damaged in any way, and a future congress still went ahead with impeaching Clinton.

In other words, Starfish's take on precedence is no less right than yours. Sorry.

Seriously, how is failure to impeach not both dereliction of duty and a total relinquishment of Congressional oversight power, checks and balances, etc.?

When our reps in Congress decide that it is not. We elect them to make that call.

That's in the Constitution - which is their employee manual. Therefore they decide what is and is not 'dereliction of duty,' not you.

[tblue37]

39. Poe's law.

There is one, or you could just type the word "sarcasm" (without quotation marks) between two colons :word: .

[stopdiggin]

45. drop down on the smileys { ... } (nt)

[MineralMan]

68. Type :sarcasm: in post body text.

Smilies don't show in post titles.

[ehrnst]

72. +1000.(nt)

[uponit7771]

80. Don't need Senate to follow constitution and hurt Republicans and Trump politically

[Bettie]

8. I'm happy to see movement

as the evidence is actually obtained, it will gather steam.

I just wanted to see it start.

[ProfessionalLeft]

69. Me too

I think many of us are forgetting that Pelosi said of impeaching Trump, and I quote, "He's just not worth it."

That sure sounded pretty final to me. Didn't sound like a Speaker being coy or playing three-dimensional chess. Sounded pretty clear to me that, as far as Pelosi was concerned, impeachment was a nonstarter.

So, I'm reluctant to sing her praises as a political genius. I applaud her apparent change of mind. But I'm not about the give her the "props" that have been called for. This procedure could have and should have been started when the Mueller Report dropped.

We've wasted a valuable two months spinning our wheels. I hope we haven't waited too long to save our democracy.

[MineralMan]

9. Timing is important. Right now is not the optimal time

to release details of what's under development. There is a time that is the right time, but it's not now. The right time will be closer to next year's election. We can't get rid of Trump except with the help of the Senate and they're not helpful at all. So, the House has to wait and present all of the facts in small bites. Right now, there are things happening in federal courts that will lead to information being released that hasn't been released.

For example, Trump's tax returns. The law on that is clear. It says the IRA shall provide them to a particular House committee. It doesn't say it can provide them. It says it shall provide them. The federal courts like precision in language when it comes to laws. So, you can expect them to be released at an opportune time.

There are many other issues in the courts right now, regarding requirements to testify and other things. Those will get worked out. When they do, more information will be available for the public to chew on.

[peggysue2]

74. Timing is everything for . . .

maximum damage to the Trumpster and his corrupt band of enablers. I've always suspected Pelosi had her own timetable when it came to the inquiry and investigation details. I'm even more convinced now. She has repeatedly referenced the courts in questions about impeachment, and we know there are multiple cases working through the courts at the moment. She's juggling multiple balls in the air. We either believe she is a Master Juggler or we don't. I happen to believe she is and is someone willing to take the heat, the criticism and all the negative press to get to the right conclusion: winning 2020 and having Trump's fat ass headed for jail, along with those who were willing to sell out the country for 30 pieces of silver.

We shall see. But my money remains on Nancy Pelosi and her magnificent dexterity.

[donco]

10. I am thinking

that Nancy is taking the long game.AKA as waiting for the herd to thin out before begging impeachment hearings.

[MineralMan]

12. I'm sure there is a lot of discussion about timing too.

If things start too early, people will forget by next year, and that's when they need to remember. We still have several months of this year to deal with, so there may be an opinion that an official impeachment inquiry would be better early next year. And they might be right about that.

We're very impatient to have Trump go down, but there's no way to do that, in reality, until November of next year, frankly.

Timing is very important. Besides, Trump is likely to do more stupid things that will help him lose the election.

[empedocles]

55. Yes, timing. At a simple level. A lot more voters will be paying more attention next year.

[MineralMan]

56. Yes. And also, people become fatigued by hearing the same thing

for months at a time. They stop paying attention. We need people to be paying attention around election time in 2020. We don't need them to be bored with some old stories from the previous year.

[ginnyinWI]

11. Great insights. We here have to learn patience.

We are like the Hobbits waiting for the Ents to finish their talk...

I always say that Pelosi knows much, much more than I do about how these things must play out. My guess is that she's timing this to really heat up in early 2020, in time for the primaries.

[MineralMan]

13. Patience is hard. With Trump getting worse and worse, it's

very difficult to be patient and let a long game play out. But, we really have no choice about that, since the Senate absolutely will not remove Trump from office. So, we need to hit him hard with the facts early next year, after people begin really thinking about the elections.

We're going to have to beat him next November to get rid of him, I'm afraid, unless something huge happens.

[bucolic_frolic]

17. I think any burning desire

on Trump's part to serve more than 2 terms has been doused with flame retardant.

And he's been quiet today.

[Efilroft Sul]

51. You got me with the Tolkien talk.

:Swoon:

[RobertDevereaux]

14. Nadler today...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212320155

[MineralMan]

16. Yes. The plot is thickening.

I noticed the change in attitude after the Mueller hearings, when the House leadership came out and held that press conference. They didn't give us all of their plans and ideas, but they hinted at them.

Stuff moves slowly, unfortunately. Too slowly for some, but there's no way to speed things up, I'm afraid.

[treefarmers]

18. Now That The Mueller Report Is Complete This is What We Will Focus On

Now That The Mueller Report Is Complete This is will be the main focus.
It's going to be a long process but it could end some success!

[yaesu]

20. the clock is ticking, the impeachment window grows smaller

going through impeachment too close to an election draws the attention away from our candidates and will focus on tRump, MSM would love it and tRump would benefit.

[MineralMan]

22. Timing is critical. You think the timing is wrong?

I think the timing is doing just fine. We disagree. You know what, though? Neither of us has all the information we need to get that timing just right. We're just guessing, based on inadequate information.

[True Blue American]

28. Agree!

[True Blue American]

27. The House will do nothing until September.

[True Blue American]

24. I never dissed Nancy.

I feel she is a brilliant woman trying to herd cats in one direction. When asked about AOC she found her brilliant.

When asked if they buried the hatchet she said,” There was no hatchet!”

Frankly, I think Nancy made some of the Reporters look dumb today

[MineralMan]

29. I haven't, either.

Some, however, have been on her case since the 2018 election. I'd like to see that stop, frankly. The Democratic caucus elected her to be Speaker. I assume they know who they want in that role. She has more experience in that job that anyone else right now. I say we should let her do her job.

This is all politics. While I've been involved in politics for over 50 years, I've never been an elected official of any kind. So, I'm a spectator, just like all the rest of us are. The people who are in government after being elected have to look at things a little differently that those of us sitting in the bleachers watching the game.

Pelosi is the quarterback in the House. She calls the plays. Her fellow Democrats elected her to lead. Who am I do argue against their choice?

[True Blue American]

35. Her PC today

Showed just how well she handles The House. I am impressed.

The Impeachment Inquiry is now under way. And, Pelosi is letting the 3 Leaders do their jobs while she passes bills to show what can be done. The way she handles Trump is brilliant.

[stopdiggin]

48. I like that

I put it this way: "I am very involved with politics, I am not a politician"
I also have some measure of my limitations and understanding ..

[bigtree]

30. nothing happens in a vacuum

...keep the pressure on for the outcome you want.

[MineralMan]

46. Exactly. Everyone here needs to stay in touch with their house reps.

Tell them what you want them to do and why. Briefly. Emphatically. I wonder how many DUers communicate regularly with their House members. I doubt it is a majority who does that.

I do. Every couple of weeks, an email goes out from me to both Senators and my House representative, Betty McCollum.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

31. Impeachment will have to come from the grass roots.

It won't happen unless a majority of voters want it, and so far they don't (DU isn't the universe). The representatives will respond to their constituents, not the other way around; Nixon's near-impeachment and resulting resignation happened only because, following the Watergate investigation in 1973 and the impeachment hearings in 1974, his approval ratings were in the toilet. This gave the House Judiciary Committee permission to vote on articles of impeachment, which they knew the full House would also approve.

So, if we want it to happen we have to buttonhole our Dem reps who aren't on the bandwagon yet - and the GOPers, too, just for fun - during the August recess when they are directly available to their constituents, and let them know what you think. They won't change their minds unless there are enough voters behind them to protect their butts in 2020.

[MineralMan]

41. DU isn't even the solar system.

What we think here has zero impact on anything larger than DU. We represent a small segment of Democrats, but we have people here from all corners of the Democratic party.

Several times, I've mentioned that people should be contacting their house reps to tell them what they want them to do. So far, that recommendation has landed with nothing but a dull thud.

Both of my Senators and my House rep are on board with kicking Trump's ass. They've still heard from me.

[mcar]

32. The investigation has begun

or is continuing, as it should. People who think impeachment means waving a wand and it gets done NOW! NOW! NOW! don't really know how our government works.

[MineralMan]

42. Inertia. It's hard to stop a moving train, and it's equally hard to get

it moving at full speed. Government is like the longest, heaviest train you can imagine. It has enormous inertia.

[mcar]

43. Yes

[katmondoo]

34. Thank you MineralMan. You have made me feel so much better. I have the same thoughts

but I doubt myself and doubt if my thinking is in the right direction. You have set me straight.

[True Blue American]

36. Wise Poster

Mineral Man.

[ismnotwasm]

47. K&R

[srobertss]

49. Senate Report on election interference is an important element

I read about former Solicitor General Walter Dillinger’s remark on Chris Hayes show last night, where he said not all crimes are impeachable, but failing to protect the country against foreign attack because it protects you politically is definitely an impeachable offense. Trump has continuously denied our intelligence on this. Whether this is due to his vanity or his hope for future help doesn’t matter. He’s not defending our country.

[somaticexperiencing]

50. I need to know what an "impeachment inquiry" means. Because surely we already have enough...

to hold an inquiry into impeachment, and to call it such.

Holding hearing or fact-gathering sessions towards that purpose, and to not call them an impeachment inquiry makes Democrats look weak, feckless, powerless, disunified, ridiculous.

Especially after the other day, an inquiry is called for. Nancy Pelosi seems to want her inquiries but not call it an impeachment inquiry. Then to get the facts, then to recommend impeachment.

Isn't it wiser/better/more formidable to declare an "impeachment inquiry", and to explain to the propagandized and ill-informed American public that in inquiry is an inquiry. It is not a recommendation for articles of impeachment. And it is not a vote.

Please correct me if I am wrong. But if I am right, an IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY should be announced right now, and they should get off their asses and move it forward.

[MineralMan]

52. See the thread at the link below:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212320155

[somaticexperiencing]

54. Thank you, thank you. I also saw the following thread after I posted.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212320474

As I said, I'm unsure of the facts, but I'd like the optics to display some power. But if the power is in play, without the optics, that is cool also.

Thank you for helping me become better informed!

[Heartstrings]

57. Nothing is going to happen quickly....

At least start the investigations. And let it be known we Dems are serious...no one is above the law!

[MineralMan]

58. Investigations are already underway.

Court cases, too, to demand documents and other information.

That's been going on for some time. They're on it! Everything about government takes time.

[Heartstrings]

59. In other words...

“Patience, Grasshoppers!”

[MineralMan]

60. Yes, pretty much.

Patience is very difficult, but necessary.

[bucolic_frolic]

61. How appropriate that Democrats troll Donald Trump

by just considering whether to have an investigation, it might be an impeachment investigation, it might not turn into one, it's sort of an inquiry, but not really the way other sessions of Congress have conducted one, it echoes the Nixon and Clinton proceedings, but it's different, and they might find some illegality like Mueller found, or they might not ....

It's entirely appropriate, because it trolls Trump ... who really never asked for Russia's help winning the election, because they might not have been listening when he asked them to, and none of the people who contacted Moscow who were associated with his campaign were authorized to do anything, despite the information and polls they profffered, and Trump Tower meetings were really about babies and adoptions as you recall, and Trump knew nothing about it, and he had no deals underway to build Trump Tower Moscow, and no one had any money from any real estate deals, and he never met most of them ...

This is exactly how you fry a Big Fish rotting from the head.

[Captain Zero]

66. And the GOP & Republican candidates down ticket...

Get lots of time and opportunities to consider:

1. Uh-oh do we want to nominate the orange albatross who could be impeached by election day ?

2. If he gets nominated AND is being impeached, whether convicted or not, do I as a candidate want to run WITH HIM ??

May they all live interesting lives during the process.

[calimary]

63. Heilemann just confirmed it on MSNBC.

He's filling in on Nicolle Wallace's "Deadline White House" show, and just announced a few minutes ago that "NBC News has confirmed."

[malaise]

70. +1,000

Can't wait for town halls in the coming weeks

[ReformedGOPer]

78. I've always believed this.

Speaker Pelosi wants to stall the process until they get back from their break, waiting until the summer is over.

[gristy]

83. Respectfully disagree

Your proposal for us puts us far too much in a passive role. Pelosi, the media and the country at large need to know that there is a large contingent of citizens and Democrats that are clamoring for impeachment and we want it expeditiously at least, if not now.