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Goodheart

(5,649 posts)
Mon Aug 26, 2019, 09:15 PM Aug 2019

Because I'm not stupid.

That was my answer when one of the white people at a very white get-together, surprised to hear me defend Hillary Clinton against a smear, asked me "You're a Democrat??!!! Really? Why?"

I'm keeping it simple these days.


58 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Because I'm not stupid. (Original Post) Goodheart Aug 2019 OP
You are nicer than I am. BigmanPigman Aug 2019 #1
Please try engaging in informed and polite dialog, elleng Aug 2019 #2
Doesn't help. Sorry. Goodheart Aug 2019 #3
Nope. It doesn't help. lunatica Aug 2019 #4
To what end? tia uponit7771 Aug 2019 #5
CHANGING MINDS, SAVING THE WORLD. elleng Aug 2019 #6
Unless there was something pithy and sharp there was going to change no minds in that setting ... uponit7771 Aug 2019 #8
In order for someone ro change his or her mind, soldierant Aug 2019 #55
Never works... In It to Win It Aug 2019 #7
Glad to hear that you try. elleng Aug 2019 #10
Ellen, love you, but let me talk about psych for a bit sharedvalues Aug 2019 #12
Thanks, sharedvalues. elleng Aug 2019 #13
:) sharedvalues Aug 2019 #15
Indeed it does! Teaching my grandkids now! elleng Aug 2019 #16
Great post. Goodheart Aug 2019 #18
It seems to me that the only time Ds get the attention of the Rs in Congress or public is when Ds in2herbs Aug 2019 #36
Great response. nt Ferrets are Cool Aug 2019 #41
It could all be in the way that line is delivered. calimary Aug 2019 #17
Right. See what sharedvalues said @ #12. elleng Aug 2019 #19
I respectively disagree rufus dog Aug 2019 #22
Kindness and nurturing is seen as weakness bigbrother05 Aug 2019 #34
Will not work on Trump supporters BlueJac Aug 2019 #38
Nope. Ferrets are Cool Aug 2019 #40
Agree. cwydro Aug 2019 #50
Thanks, cwydro. elleng Aug 2019 #51
Such as? I can tell them everything they rely on in life to survive is because of a Eliot Rosewater Aug 2019 #52
Yes. More reasons sharedvalues Aug 2019 #9
Nice. safeinOhio Aug 2019 #11
Exactly! dchill Aug 2019 #14
I've got the coffee mug that goes with your sweatshirt FakeNoose Aug 2019 #29
where can I get one? Hermit-The-Prog Aug 2019 #30
Sorry I don't know :-) FakeNoose Aug 2019 #39
fake mugging! Hermit-The-Prog Aug 2019 #44
I don't know for sure, soldierant Aug 2019 #56
thanks! Hermit-The-Prog Aug 2019 #57
yvw /nt soldierant Aug 2019 #58
Perfectomundo!!!!! TruckFump Aug 2019 #43
Eliminate the blue text. Ligyron Aug 2019 #45
+1 This would make great OP! diva77 Aug 2019 #31
You could use a positive reason. mnhtnbb Aug 2019 #20
Um, not only no, but hell no! rufus dog Aug 2019 #25
They're not critical thinkers, they're slogan lovers. Goodheart Aug 2019 #32
For an interesting discussion of mnhtnbb Aug 2019 #33
See above. You're using a response for a Democrat on a Republican sharedvalues Aug 2019 #54
What was the reaction/follow up dialogue? robbob Aug 2019 #21
"I thought you were my friend." Goodheart Aug 2019 #23
Oh boo hoo! robbob Aug 2019 #24
Which proves you did the right thing rufus dog Aug 2019 #26
I bet they are all still talking about you and your temerity at that party. PatrickforO Aug 2019 #27
Uppitiness nt Xipe Totec Aug 2019 #28
Also you do not support a racist incompetent purposefully cruel president. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2019 #35
I use "...like most people." JohnnyRingo Aug 2019 #37
Because I'm not a racist... TruckFump Aug 2019 #42
I listened to True Blue American Aug 2019 #47
1000+ True Blue American Aug 2019 #48
You did the right thing. Ligyron Aug 2019 #46
100% Proud Democrat. Not a follower, a leader. ffr Aug 2019 #49
My answer is because I'm not Russian. kairos12 Aug 2019 #53

uponit7771

(90,555 posts)
8. Unless there was something pithy and sharp there was going to change no minds in that setting ...
Mon Aug 26, 2019, 09:31 PM
Aug 2019

... that's not the way human beings operate as a whole group.

soldierant

(7,382 posts)
55. In order for someone ro change his or her mind,
Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:15 PM
Aug 2019

he or she has to have a mind to change. A mindless person can't do it.

I would still encourage attempting it if we have an infinite amount of time in which to accomplish everything that needs to get done. We don't. Distractions only bog us down.

In It to Win It

(8,655 posts)
7. Never works...
Mon Aug 26, 2019, 09:28 PM
Aug 2019

I genuinely try. It's like talking to a brick wall. They all believe that the Clintons have hitmen.

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
12. Ellen, love you, but let me talk about psych for a bit
Mon Aug 26, 2019, 09:47 PM
Aug 2019

Different messages are more or less persuasive to different people.

To most liberals calm reasoned discussion is the most persuasive form of argument.
But from most conservatives this is not true!

What persuades many conservatives, is anger, directness, and emotion. This is why Brett Kavanaugh yelled and that worked. This is why Rush Limbaugh calls women “feminazis”. (If you’d like to read more about this, George Lakoff has written about it— how conservatives respond to strength and liberals want to talk things through.)

So, what does that mean? If you meet a conservative, the most effective thing you can do is call them stupid. Call them an idiot. A sucker. (But stay calm. If you get worked up it seems less strong.)

It sounds CRAZY to liberals like us. But that’s why conservatives like Fox and we hate it. We like different styles of communication.

Try it!

Ps I almost always agree with you here.

elleng

(133,232 posts)
13. Thanks, sharedvalues.
Mon Aug 26, 2019, 10:00 PM
Aug 2019

I doubt that I could do this, MAYBE I could call some 'sucker,' and maybe some others here can; I hope they will. I can't stand the idea of ##### just giving up.

in2herbs

(2,989 posts)
36. It seems to me that the only time Ds get the attention of the Rs in Congress or public is when Ds
Tue Aug 27, 2019, 11:47 AM
Aug 2019

decide to take no hostages and speak truth! It may be accompanied with anger but so long as it's not violence I'm good with that. Otherwise I don't think any shift in the R thought process will occur. I'm for shaming them back to hiding under the rock where they came from and short of violence and silence I'm doing all that I can to accomplish that. This is my world, too.

calimary

(82,548 posts)
17. It could all be in the way that line is delivered.
Mon Aug 26, 2019, 10:43 PM
Aug 2019

Perhaps if it's done with a gentle, lilting voice, a sweet little smile, a twinkle in the eye, and maybe a wee shrug or nod of the head, then it's harder for the recipient to take umbrage.

It's all in the delivery. Schtick can be rather disarming.

 

rufus dog

(8,419 posts)
22. I respectively disagree
Mon Aug 26, 2019, 11:17 PM
Aug 2019

I agree with the OP, we need to make a snap decision and pick two paths:

1. Educate
2. Embarrass

Bluntly a person would be correct going the embarrassment route well over 80% of the time.

Seeing the person came out aggressive, I believe the OP made a decision that was 99.9% correct. Had the person provided any inkling that their mind could be changed, then you try to educate.

This can't be said enough, THEY ARE BAD, IGNORANT PEOPLE!

Edit: Sharedvalues in post 12 hit it. It may be uncomfortable, but it is necessary, they need to be punched between the eyes. Sometimes multiple times. Liberals don't get this, kind, nurturing doesn't work. It is why we can't comprehend anyone voting for tRump. Make it extremely uncomfortable for them and we can flip up to 20% of them.

Now are we using them, with out a doubt, but it is for their own good.

bigbrother05

(5,995 posts)
34. Kindness and nurturing is seen as weakness
Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:07 AM
Aug 2019

They often see it as an opportunity to take advantage and demonstrate dominance. That's why the Right viewed the 2016 debates as a win for Trump, he was belligerent and repetitive vs. her reasoned policy-oriented approach.

Ferrets are Cool

(21,231 posts)
40. Nope.
Tue Aug 27, 2019, 02:17 PM
Aug 2019

They haven't earned polite dialog. They are fucking ME over and every other American who isn't a billionaire. Not only America, but the world is suffering because of their IDIOCY also. So FUCK ALL OF THEM.

Of course, you can handle it however YOU want.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,409 posts)
52. Such as? I can tell them everything they rely on in life to survive is because of a
Tue Aug 27, 2019, 06:41 PM
Aug 2019

liberal but they wont believe me, I have tried.

soldierant

(7,382 posts)
56. I don't know for sure,
Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:21 PM
Aug 2019

but I'd start at Cafe Press myself. That's where I got my "Is that true, or did you hear it on Fox?" T-shirt. I believe Zazzle is another one. If not getting anywhere, I'd then put "I'm not a Republican" into my search engine and select the categoty "shopping."

mnhtnbb

(31,586 posts)
20. You could use a positive reason.
Mon Aug 26, 2019, 10:50 PM
Aug 2019

Because I believe in science.

Because I believe in loving my neighbor.

Because I believe in equal rights.

Etc.

 

rufus dog

(8,419 posts)
25. Um, not only no, but hell no!
Mon Aug 26, 2019, 11:34 PM
Aug 2019

each one of those takes you down a rabbit hole. Why would any logical person still be a tRump supporter?

Everything they said the Clinton's did, tRump has actually done. Yet they hate the Clinton's but love tRump.

So using logic is a fools errand.

The OP was right.

 

Goodheart

(5,649 posts)
32. They're not critical thinkers, they're slogan lovers.
Tue Aug 27, 2019, 09:40 AM
Aug 2019

So I gave them something they can comprehend.

mnhtnbb

(31,586 posts)
33. For an interesting discussion of
Tue Aug 27, 2019, 09:57 AM
Aug 2019

calling people stupid

https://www.everydaysociologyblog.com/2016/10/the-sociology-of-calling-other-people-stupid.html

To answer "Because I'm not stupid" is to imply that the person asking the question is. If speaking to someone with a quick wit--and don't believe there aren't quick-witted Republicans--the comeback could be "You may not be stupid but you certainly are rude."

Then where are you? What have you gained? If all one cares about is engaging in a dick measuring contest by insulting the other person, then fine. Mission accomplished.

It all depends upon the group, the situation, the person asking the question. If one desires not to have a conversation, or provide a positive response explaining what it means to be a Democrat, then great. Answering "Because I'm not stupid" will finish the conversation. IF, though, one wants to leave the other person with something to think about, then provide a positive answer. OR, alternatively, turn the question around. Give a positive response and then ask the individual why he (she) is a Republican.

I do agree that with some people, there is no point to having a discussion. It's easy to sidestep the question. "It's a party, let's not talk politics." Tell me about...your vacation, your summer, your kid...

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
54. See above. You're using a response for a Democrat on a Republican
Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:12 PM
Aug 2019

Republicans think differently than us.

See post above on psychology and communication styles of Dems and Rs.

To answer your question, if someone says
“You may not be stupid but you certainly are rude”

You say, “Actually, I just care about this country. I’m a patriot. And I’m sick and tired of conservative suckers believing the lies of billionaires. Fox exists for one reason: because its billionaire owner has figured out he can lie to stupid white people and scare them with fake stories about minorities to get them to vote for billionaire tax cuts.

Hey, did you even know that Republicans passed a $2 TRILLION tax cut for billionaires and put it on a credit card? Fox won’t mention that. But Fox’s owner Murdoch is laughing at you. He knows you and your kids will pay it back.

Sucker.



Again, this sounds crazy to us. Because we don’t talk like this and we aren’t persuaded by it. But I promise- this is how conservatives talk and what they need to hear to be persuaded.
The person you say this to will never admit you’re right. But he’ll think about it. You’ve taken a big step on the road to conversion.

robbob

(3,565 posts)
21. What was the reaction/follow up dialogue?
Mon Aug 26, 2019, 11:08 PM
Aug 2019

I love hearing these “encounters with GOP moron” stories; I always want to know more about how it went...

robbob

(3,565 posts)
24. Oh boo hoo!
Mon Aug 26, 2019, 11:25 PM
Aug 2019

(For them)! Sure, you can be my friend, that’s why I feel obligated to tell you you’re stupid...

 

rufus dog

(8,419 posts)
26. Which proves you did the right thing
Mon Aug 26, 2019, 11:40 PM
Aug 2019

The person was more than comfortable in calling you out for being a Democrat, insinuating you are ignorant. When you flipped it around that same person was more than comfortable in playing the victim.

Typical Republican mindset. Group think and they are the victim. They have zero self awareness. Unlikely you will ever change this persons mind, but someone who heard the interchange may be save able.

PatrickforO

(14,690 posts)
27. I bet they are all still talking about you and your temerity at that party.
Mon Aug 26, 2019, 11:51 PM
Aug 2019

But maybe you gave a few people who heard you permission to ask their own questions and move beyond Rush's talking points.

JohnnyRingo

(18,905 posts)
37. I use "...like most people."
Tue Aug 27, 2019, 11:52 AM
Aug 2019

"Like most people, I voted for Hillary." "Like most people, I want universal health care." Like most people, I'm fucking sane." Unfortunately, half the people are below average intelligence.

I love to remind them they are a small minority, and I know how they hate minorities.

TruckFump

(5,812 posts)
42. Because I'm not a racist...
Tue Aug 27, 2019, 02:56 PM
Aug 2019

Because children do not belong in cages...
Because health care is a right...
Because women should have control over their bodies...
Because I want a president and not a dictator....


And on and on and on...

True Blue American

(18,042 posts)
47. I listened to
Tue Aug 27, 2019, 04:45 PM
Aug 2019

John Kasich on CNN today. He said he was not one of those who changed their minds about Trump. He felt it was trouble from the beginning. But he refused to bad mouth anyone. If Republicans were smart they would primary John against Trump.

Kasich is not my favorite person but I think he grew after being slapped down by voters when he tried to kill public Unions. He accepted Medicare because it was the right thing to do. When the Legislature tried to pass a restrictive abortion bill they were told, no good he will not sign it.

Of course that was the first thing DeWine signed. But I think he learned a lesson about guns. After being booed off the stage in Dayton he went back to Columbus, said,” The people are angry and they have a right to be angry!” Proposed gun law legislation.

BTW, Dave Chappell, Kanye West and, surprise, Jon Stewart showed up in Dayton for the Shine Memorial in Dayton.

Ligyron

(7,772 posts)
46. You did the right thing.
Tue Aug 27, 2019, 04:35 PM
Aug 2019

The "like most people" qualifier helps too,

"Like most people, I voted for Hillary ".

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Because I'm not stupid.