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Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:30 PM

ok DU,,you have ALL the answers.

a member highlighted an article about a ND farmer today.. I read so many people ,make so many responses ,, and not 1 from North Dakota? hmm I grew up there.. spent 20 + years helping Grandpa on his farm. ND people are slow to change, I agree. But the second yu see/read an article from a ND farmer,,,,time to listen. I talk to neighbors,friends, weekly. I knew long ago the tide was changing against Trump. He has screwed our farmers over.
However I will not read or listen about how "these" farmers will always vote R,, if you didn't grow up in ND,,don't post like you know ND farmers. I thought Dems,,respected,, I'm reading less and less on DU,,just more folks who just wanna yell ,and all should listen. Isn't that the Republican way?


Old Dem guy Koz out

116 replies, 6045 views

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Arrow 116 replies Author Time Post
Reply ok DU,,you have ALL the answers. (Original post)
kozar Aug 2019 OP
Cracklin Charlie Aug 2019 #1
kozar Aug 2019 #3
pwb Aug 2019 #2
kozar Aug 2019 #4
pangaia Aug 2019 #15
Quackers Aug 2019 #50
Skittles Aug 2019 #5
pbmus Aug 2019 #8
kozar Aug 2019 #9
Skittles Aug 2019 #10
kozar Aug 2019 #19
Skittles Aug 2019 #20
pangaia Aug 2019 #24
kozar Aug 2019 #27
Thekaspervote Aug 2019 #61
kozar Aug 2019 #64
Thekaspervote Aug 2019 #66
Doodley Aug 2019 #81
Eyeball_Kid Aug 2019 #101
Eyeball_Kid Aug 2019 #102
Captain Stern Aug 2019 #108
UniteFightBack Aug 2019 #6
kozar Aug 2019 #11
UniteFightBack Aug 2019 #16
Skittles Aug 2019 #18
pangaia Aug 2019 #25
JoeOtterbein Aug 2019 #7
pbmus Aug 2019 #12
lame54 Aug 2019 #13
UniteFightBack Aug 2019 #17
lame54 Aug 2019 #21
UniteFightBack Aug 2019 #22
kozar Aug 2019 #23
Hoyt Aug 2019 #14
kozar Aug 2019 #26
Hoyt Aug 2019 #30
Eyeball_Kid Aug 2019 #103
Xtermin8 H8 Aug 2019 #28
kozar Aug 2019 #33
Xtermin8 H8 Aug 2019 #43
kozar Aug 2019 #48
Xtermin8 H8 Aug 2019 #55
Quackers Aug 2019 #65
MontanaMama Aug 2019 #82
MrsCoffee Aug 2019 #99
pangaia Aug 2019 #34
Xtermin8 H8 Aug 2019 #37
pbmus Aug 2019 #41
Xtermin8 H8 Aug 2019 #44
pangaia Aug 2019 #77
Boxerfan Aug 2019 #36
Xtermin8 H8 Aug 2019 #39
Takket Aug 2019 #29
Hoyt Aug 2019 #31
Post removed Aug 2019 #35
Xtermin8 H8 Aug 2019 #49
RhodeIslandOne Aug 2019 #93
SidDithers Aug 2019 #110
Boxerfan Aug 2019 #32
kozar Aug 2019 #38
procon Aug 2019 #78
treestar Aug 2019 #100
Eyeball_Kid Aug 2019 #104
Locutusofborg Aug 2019 #40
kozar Aug 2019 #42
Quackers Aug 2019 #53
defacto7 Aug 2019 #75
Xtermin8 H8 Aug 2019 #47
ecstatic Aug 2019 #45
PandoraAwakened Aug 2019 #46
Caliman73 Aug 2019 #51
AJT Aug 2019 #52
kozar Aug 2019 #54
Xtermin8 H8 Aug 2019 #57
Post removed Aug 2019 #58
Xtermin8 H8 Aug 2019 #71
Eyeball_Kid Aug 2019 #105
emmaverybo Aug 2019 #56
Xtermin8 H8 Aug 2019 #63
emmaverybo Aug 2019 #69
Xtermin8 H8 Aug 2019 #72
emmaverybo Aug 2019 #85
Xtermin8 H8 Aug 2019 #86
emmaverybo Aug 2019 #95
defacto7 Aug 2019 #76
pangaia Aug 2019 #83
Journeyman Aug 2019 #59
kozar Aug 2019 #62
Cousin Dupree Aug 2019 #60
H2O Man Aug 2019 #67
defacto7 Aug 2019 #80
Xtermin8 H8 Aug 2019 #87
defacto7 Aug 2019 #89
Name removed Aug 2019 #90
marble falls Aug 2019 #107
TheFarseer Aug 2019 #68
procon Aug 2019 #70
GulfCoast66 Aug 2019 #73
stopdiggin Aug 2019 #74
Name removed Aug 2019 #91
Celerity Aug 2019 #106
RockRaven Aug 2019 #79
grantcart Aug 2019 #84
Niagara Aug 2019 #88
RhodeIslandOne Aug 2019 #92
Celerity Aug 2019 #94
stopdiggin Aug 2019 #96
obamanut2012 Aug 2019 #97
treestar Aug 2019 #98
mercuryblues Aug 2019 #109
Phentex Aug 2019 #111
leftyladyfrommo Aug 2019 #112
mercuryblues Aug 2019 #113
leftyladyfrommo Sep 2019 #114
Iggo Sep 2019 #115
Codeine Sep 2019 #116

Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:33 PM

1. May I sharpen your point a bit further?

By screwing over our farmers, Trump is screwing us all.

Thatís our food supply!

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Response to Cracklin Charlie (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:40 PM

3. indeed nt

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:39 PM

2. Primary time is tough.

Ah shit, stick around?

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Response to pwb (Reply #2)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:41 PM

4. not sure what this means

ty for being vague and wasting more of my time

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Response to kozar (Reply #4)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:54 PM

15. It is perfectly clear to me....

If you stick around you will probably get it also...

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Response to kozar (Reply #4)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:32 PM

50. It means during the primary's, shit gets crazy here and people sometimes go too far.

Then theyíre asking if youíll stick around or leave.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:44 PM

5. you don't have to be from ND to know republican voters

or their motivations

do they all vote repuke? no......but too many of them do and will continue to do so

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Response to Skittles (Reply #5)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:50 PM

8. Bingo...

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Response to Skittles (Reply #5)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:50 PM

9. or maybe you do

to group ANY kind of voter into a generic group is foolish,, so basically Skittles,,what yo just said is that you North Dakota farmers as well as me? this is why Dems fail,,easy route out,,,all voters are black and white,,nothing needs to change,, Let's just put them in a group.. Seriously? I've been voting dem for over 40 years,,I have seen crap like you just replied, so you know North Dakota voters better than me? I guess I can stop working for the Dem vote,,I'll just tell them Skittles has all the answers.


proved my point,,


Koz

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Response to kozar (Reply #9)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:51 PM

10. I,,,have,,,lived,,,in,,farming,,territory

I have lived on farms in Minnesota, Iowa and Texas

yes indeed

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Response to Skittles (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:56 PM

19. in ND?

or just farming where? my point is I grew up there.. worked on my Grandpas farm,, and yet you feel good enough to reply generically yet again to push me to answer again? Just shows again ,,not many here,, know ND farmers,people,or their attitudes,, you all just keep typing generics
I can quit working the Dem votes,,you all seem to know more than I do,,someone please go to ND and pick up my slack.

Koz

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Response to kozar (Reply #19)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:57 PM

20. LOL

maybe you need to travel more

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Response to Skittles (Reply #20)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:59 PM

24. LOL

thread winner

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Response to Skittles (Reply #20)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:03 PM

27. would you like to talk to me about my travels? when I served in Army and otherwise

or do you just want to be a THREAD WINNER? Im open and honest,,,take your lil forum jokes away from my thread,, the country I served is in danger,,no time for frickken thread jokes


Koz

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Response to kozar (Reply #27)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:56 PM

61. First thank you for you service!

My great great grandfather homesteaded land post civil war in west central Illinois. It was held by my family for well over 160+ yrs. I have letters in his own hand as to just how hard it was.

My father was a hard core democrat, but never talked about it as it wasnít something one spoke about in public. My farm family would have lost their land had it not been for FDR and they knew it, as did most of their neighbors.

Just in my humble opinion, the corporate farms and larger operations are more republican based. Iím not sure when or exactly how that happened. Itís buried in history somewhere, maybe an oral history. Since you have those connections, maybe you could ferret that out and enlighten us.. or at least me.

Donít let the sideways jokes and snarky replies get to you.

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #61)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:59 PM

64. all I will say is

You're Welcome,, I am proud to have protected you

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Response to kozar (Reply #64)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 09:08 PM

66. Take care!

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Response to kozar (Reply #19)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:38 PM

81. That makes you the expert? Therefore, you can dismiss other opinions?

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Response to kozar (Reply #19)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 08:43 AM

101. Any attempt at "journalism" that begins

with an anecdotal (this neighbor, that farmer, my barber, etc) and then generalizes to a global conclusion is a failure from the get-go. NO ONE should be listening to that kind of tripe. Yeah, yeah, that seems to be the script in the MSM, but it's lazy and inaccurate. If an anecdotal is used as an example of how a peer-reviewed demographic study plays out, that's of higher quality and may help a reader visualize the current zeitgeist that can be gleaned from a study. Sadly, a lot of "left-leaning" articles begin and end with anecdotals that do not reflect much about anything.

kozar, I can understand how you feel a kind of parochial pride in your state's traditions and your farmers' way of thinking. But it's not so unique, I have to say. It's just common sense when the passion of political dreams and hopes are, at times, necessarily stripped away. Trumpy put your friends and farmers on welfare by messing with international trade agreements. They should be pissed. Any farmer who relents to being dependent on federal handouts when they have the means to produce their own wealth ought to be fuming pissed.

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Response to kozar (Reply #9)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 08:52 AM

102. kozar, you're picking fights because "ND farmers."

Your arguments are "exclusionary," and needlessly so. There is nothing terribly special about "North Dakota farmers" that other farmers don't share, when it comes to selling your crops at prices below the cost of production. Trumpy is fucking everyone over. He doesn't care about state boundaries.

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Response to kozar (Reply #9)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 03:30 PM

108. Maybe grouping anybody into any generic group is foolish.

Yet, your OP is titled 'ok DU,,you have ALL the answers.'

Then you point out that some people on here grouped some other people into a generic group. LOL.

How many people on here was it that did that, kozar? Five?..Ten?...Twenty-five?...A Hundred? I don't know because I haven't even seen the thread you're talking about.

Even if it was a hundred, which I very seriously doubt. (by that, I mean I don't believe it was anywhere near one hundred posters) , you'd still be grouping the rest of us on DU into a generic group, and you're assuming that the tiny fraction of DU that you saw post, somehow is representative of the whole place.

You're making the same silly mistake that the folks you're complaining about did.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:49 PM

6. My bad...these farmers in North Dakota don't always vote R...true true said the reddest state in the

 

union.

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Response to UniteFightBack (Reply #6)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:51 PM

11. and it is big if you hear these quiet farmers making news,,

that signals something going on

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Response to kozar (Reply #11)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:55 PM

16. I welcome anybody who turns away from rump....well almost anybody. nt

 

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Response to kozar (Reply #11)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:55 PM

18. maybe that people are waking up?

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Response to Skittles (Reply #18)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:01 PM

25. I hope so.. if they were 'woke up' three years ago, maybe none of this shit would have happened

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:49 PM

7. Great to hear ND farmers turning against Trump!

Sounds good to me. And thanks for letting us know!

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:52 PM

12. We are all subjected to the Cons reign because of ignorant people

Who voted for him and will continue to defend his heinous actions...

There is no defense for voting for an Antichrist.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:53 PM

13. When ND farmers talk...

People listen

Why?
They can be wrong year after year after year but now they are THE voice of reason?

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Response to lame54 (Reply #13)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:55 PM

17. When the bullshit bleeds through to the ardent, this is a good day for the future. nt

 

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Response to UniteFightBack (Reply #17)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:58 PM

21. Sorry...

Thought you were the OP'er

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Response to lame54 (Reply #21)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:58 PM

22. I don't think anybody is saying that. nt

 

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Response to lame54 (Reply #13)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:59 PM

23. nope.

Im not saying that,,, Im saying that I have grown up there,,worked on my Grandfathers farm and KNOW these people,,didn't even read with the Canadian flag and snarky response to me.but at least you feel good now.

Koz

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 07:53 PM

14. Don't live there, but verifiable stats indicate ND went heavily for GOPers in 2008, 2012, 2016.

Likely they'll do it again, too.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #14)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:01 PM

26. once again,,

You think idont know the stats when I grew up there? Why even post this? you read a stat sheet,,I grew up with these people for over 30 years and worked on family farm.. things are changing,,just read your damn graphs,, I am pissed at lack of respect to my post.


Koz

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Response to kozar (Reply #26)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:09 PM

30. So, you think trump, or whatever GOPer runs in 2020, won't win in ND?

Sorry you are ticked, but I think you are likely wrong. Hope not, but I'd be willing to bet on it.

Personally, I'm tired of racist white wingers -- a big chunk of farmers in my state -- saying they are ticked at trump, knowing they'll pull the lever for him when it comes down to it.

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Response to kozar (Reply #26)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 08:55 AM

103. Just a quick OT question: what's with the double commas?

Do you have a keyboard problem?

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:05 PM

28. I'm new here, too. However, I think I will take a different approach than you have chosen with

 

your post.

First, as a new member, I choose not to shit in the middle of DU's living room floor. I will try to refrain from insulting my new friends and will most likely exceed 441 post before I assert myself in any significant way.

Second, I will try not to presume that I know peoples views when I don't and I will try not to call out members in a way that disparages them.

Third, I will avoid getting up on my high-horse thinking I'm smarter and more informed than anyone else.

And what do you mean about "I thought Dems were..."? Why did you exclude yourself from that group? Are you not a Democrat? Do you think that by saying the things you said you're going to maneuver the board to your expectations? What you've posted is just short of a GBCW exit-manifesto. If that's how you feel, just quietly leave.

Finally, those goddamned North Dakota farmers help hand us this shit show and I will hold them eternally responsible. The ONLY WAY for them to redeem themselves is to turn their states, including Nebraska, blue in Nov 2020. Until happens, I don't care what you say about their slow-to-change stupidity. We need FAST change and don't have time to teach them right from wrong, they must get off their high-tractors and help us oust this regime and #VoteBlue!

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Response to Xtermin8 H8 (Reply #28)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:11 PM

33. ok,,lets talk about your post

I have stayed quiet for a long time,,thank you for presuming you know my history,,secondly,,I am on a Democratic leaning site,, Im 59 years old,, I think I can figure out what most people here think. Thirdly and probably the biggest thing

My post was about NORTH DAKOTA farmers!! who I spent 30 years with on a family farm,,not a damn word about Nebraska!!!

I will talk when I need to be heard,, obviously you will just talk...never ever assume again X ,,to tell me what I think,believe,or have lived. Im done


Koz

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Response to kozar (Reply #33)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:25 PM

43. Well, bless your heart!

 

Please, let's talk more about my post. Pretty please?

North Dakota farmers are "slow to change", as you said in your OP? Ok, then, that implies that they are willing to change. So, why haven't they changed much in the last 100 years or so?

According to the record, they took a break from being asshole rethuglicans a few times, the last being for Johnson in '64. That was 50+ years ago. For 50 years they've been fucking up our country. That's "slow-to-change", alright!

https://www.270towin.com/states/North_Dakota

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Response to Xtermin8 H8 (Reply #43)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:29 PM

48. I talk tothe Land Owners, that I grew up with,,and I

talk to them weekly,,my God man,,,take your bless your heart insults and graphs and shove them,,,I have lived ND farmers,,I was just trying to tell DU what I am hearing,,,fuck you all,,,, call me when you get to North dakota, ,take your sarcasm and shove it,,Our country is at stake,,not your feckking keyboard,



Koz

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Response to kozar (Reply #48)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:40 PM

55. You talk to them weekly? How is that, by conference call? Are they in their tractors doing farming

 

stuff? Are you on AM radio there, taking their calls on the air? Or do you go there and crawl to the top of The Minot Building and y'all use bullhorns to discuss politics and farming, you know, since there's nothing to block the sound all the way to the four corners of the state?

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Response to kozar (Reply #48)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 09:00 PM

65. "Fuck you all". Really?

I donít think thatíll be taken well here. Good day, Iím out.

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Response to kozar (Reply #48)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:42 PM

82. Dude. Seriously?

I get that youíre tweaked that folks are bagging on ND farmers who couldnít see they were being lied to in 2016. What I donít get is this magical thing that separates ND farmers from MN farmers or OH, IA, MT, ID, WI farmers etc in their short sightedness and their inability to see that they were being conned? There isnít a difference imo. They are special in that they are YOUR friends, relatives and neighbors but they arenít special in that they STILL GOT CONNED just like all the other farmers in every other state. Iím glad that theyíre figuring it out and itís too bad they didnít see this coming sooner. Maybe theyíll be on board to help the effort in saving our country from this lunatic and his evil fucking minions. Better late than never.

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Response to kozar (Reply #48)


Response to Xtermin8 H8 (Reply #28)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:12 PM

34. Hie Xtermin8 H8--


LOL

good one

Oh ya better change Nebraska to North Dakota pretty damn quick.. or ...





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Response to pangaia (Reply #34)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:17 PM

37. Yea, my bad. I was't quick enough and got my ass handed to me for it. Oh, well, I will survive.

 

And hello! Glad to be here, warts and all!

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Response to Xtermin8 H8 (Reply #37)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:18 PM

41. Welcome to DU...

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Response to pbmus (Reply #41)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:26 PM

44. Thanks so much, pbmus! Good to be among friends :)

 

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Response to Xtermin8 H8 (Reply #37)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:27 PM

77. So I see.. LOL


Things will now only get better...


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Response to Xtermin8 H8 (Reply #28)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:13 PM

36. Damn-well said.

I type too slowly...

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Response to Boxerfan (Reply #36)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:18 PM

39. Thank you! Hope your having a pleasant evening, Boxerfan. BTW, the dog or the sport?

 

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:07 PM

29. yeah, sure

Hey, this link takes you to a state by state approval rating for drumpf.

Can you take a peek and tell me in which state he has the highest approval rating?

https://civiqs.com/results/approve_president_trump?annotations=true&uncertainty=true&zoomIn=true&utm_campaign=ticker

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Response to Takket (Reply #29)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:10 PM

31. Thanks.

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Response to Takket (Reply #29)


Response to Post removed (Reply #35)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:31 PM

49. Perhaps you haven't noticed but I think you've gotten some grape jelly somewhere around, or under,

 

your comma key.

You should clean that up and your comma key won't get stuck.

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Response to Takket (Reply #29)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 12:37 AM

93. Jesus, how sad

 

Even Wyoming and Idaho donít wash Trumpís balls like North Dakota does.

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Response to Takket (Reply #29)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 11:37 PM

110. Thread winner...



Sid

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:10 PM

32. We don't have all the answers. And if we see actual R's turning against

Trump we would all welcome it.

The problem is the pattern of Republican voters is very set & familiar. We all have family & friends lost over the Foxification of America.

When you are so deep in a lie your whole world view is colored by it-you are brainwashed.
And it is very difficult to break that hold.

So show us the voters & keep trying. But don't expect a cheerleading squad till the votes are actually changed. Or they start preaching from the pews the evils of Republicansism-not liberals-as they do now.

Puhleeze.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:17 PM

38. ok you all win,,DU wins

I will discontinue talking politics with farmers I have known for over 30 years,, Im sure DU warriors will pick up my slack as you all seem to find fault in the life I have lived,, I mean ,,why even post ? None of you have even professed to know anything about North Dakota,, but so many replies tell me Im wrong,,, go get your fucking votes,,,you all have driven me away,,,

Koz

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Response to kozar (Reply #38)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:32 PM

78. Don't pull the Poor Me card.

You strongly believe that the good people you know as friends and neighbors are on the cusp of some monumental political change. That's an anecdotal tale. The facts don't match your perceptions.

Time will tell if those right bent farmers can free themselves of a lifetime of closely held Republican propagada. The odds aren't in their favor.

I don't doubt that the people you talk to are grumbling and complaing about Trump's government, that's always a lively topic for conversation. But can they escape decades of cult like programming and escape from the GOP and all their related messengers?

The data is there. When is comes time to vote the probability factor looks predictably like they will do the same thing they have always done and vote a straight Republican ticket to re elect Trump.

I hope I'm wrong. Maybe we'll see a New Age of Enlightment where your farmer friends cast off their shackles and switch to Dem candidates.

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Response to kozar (Reply #38)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 08:25 AM

100. Even if you live there, you can't be talking to everyone in the state

only if you travel across it, doing research or campaigning for office. You are talking of your personal anecdotes as if they have meaning beyond your just talking to a few people. You are welcome to analyze any other state from what information you can get about it. No one is limited to their personal experience.

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Response to kozar (Reply #38)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 09:15 AM

104. So who do you think you are? A one-man Dem evangelist?

Your state has a 69% APPROVAL RATING FOR TRUMPY. (It's only bested by West Virginia.) If your passionate work is so valuable BECAUSE YOU KNOW, BY GOD, NORTH DAKOTA FARMERS, where are the results? And who the fuck is finding fault with how you lived your life? And why would anyone care? And now you're hosting a pitty party?

Maybe your morning coffee isn't strong enough.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:18 PM

40. The July Morning Consult poll for North Dakota

Has Trump Job Approval at 51% approve and 46% disapprove. In March of 2017 Trump was at 60% approve and 35% disapprove.
https://morningconsult.com/tracking-trump-2/

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Response to Locutusofborg (Reply #40)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:24 PM

42. Bravo,,,

another graph,poll,, another disrespect from someone who prolly has never even been in ND,,,Keep posting warriors I'll keep doing what I have done for 59 years and not give a damn about your posts,graphs,or polls..TY Locut,, for totally disregarding my original post


Koz

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Response to kozar (Reply #42)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:39 PM

53. What are you talking about?

That poster showed a poll indicating that support for Trump is dropping. It was right on point to one of the items you mentioned in your op. What disrespect? I think youíre being overly aggressive toward people here. Sure, thereíll be posters you donít agree with. Thatís fine! Just donít go off on everyone, especially those who have agreed with you.

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Response to kozar (Reply #42)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:21 PM

75. That reply supports your point.

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Response to Locutusofborg (Reply #40)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:28 PM

47. And kozar was right about N. Dakotans being "slow-to-change". To wit:

 

According to the record, they took a break from being asshole rethuglicans a few times, the last being for Johnson in '64. That was 50+ years ago. For 50 years they've been fucking up our country. That's "slow-to-change", alright!

https://www.270towin.com/states/North_Dakota

AFAIAC, "slow-to-change" is just another way to say "slow-witted".

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:26 PM

45. Fair enough. I hope you're right!

That they will finally wake up and not just bend back over.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:27 PM

46. At the risk of initiating an oxymoron...

STOP RESPONDING TO THIS POST!

Koz made it very clear in both the post he is referring to and in this post that if you are not from North Dakota, he wants you to SHUT THE FUCK UP (his plea, not mine) because unless you are from North Dakota, your opinion means JACK SHIT.

He doesn't care if you have suffering farm relatives in other states whose condition can help shed light on the plague inflicted upon all of us. SHUT THE FUCK UP.

He doesn't care if you want to know more about how his own friends and family reached their "come to jeezus" moment so that maybe you can help your own relatives get there too. SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Okay, you got your wish, Koz. Next stop, IGNORE button.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:32 PM

51. What you are seeing is frustration.

I understand what you are saying. You are on the ground and speaking to people. You care about and respect those people and you are seeing them being disparaged. That is difficult. It is hard to belong to a group of people that are regularly maligned, to which you have a personal connection.

From the other perspective, what you have is a political party that has historically been aligned with the wealthiest people over the needs of the rest of us. The Democratic Party has certainly made its share of mistakes, but fundamentally, the policies of the Democratic Party have been aligned with middle class people, working people, poor people, and certain professionals. Democratic tax policies have been redistributive from the wealthy to the rest. Yet in states like North Dakota, Texas, Georgia, etc... there have been a majority of people who have continued to vote for the party that does not have their interests as part of their platform. That is extremely frustrating.

It is frustrating both ways and you are dealing with people who have been Democrats through thick and thin who have seen people over and over again, voting for the same party and expecting different results.

From the moment Trump came down his golden escalator, I would wager that every single person on DU knew that he was a fraud and that should he become president, that he would do serious damage. The frustration is why other people didn't see that. It was clear as glass.

It is good that people are starting to realize that Trump is bad. The problem is that Trump is not the only bad. The entire GOP and their policies are bad and have always been bad for everyone but the wealthy since Nixon's time. I hope you are right. The skepticism about this sea change is that people have been waiting for the collapse of the GOP since W Bush's disastrous administration and it hasn't happened. In fact, there was a wave election that gave the GOP their majorities in the House and Senate that gave McConnell the ability to block President Obama's Supreme Court pick and enabled Trump to stack the court with conservative judges. Those majorities were not voted in from California, New York, Massachusetts, Washington State, Oregon, etc...

People are upset and scared. They are looking at the US turn into a country that they do not recognize along the model of what we would typically see in a developing country or post colonial system, not one that has been at the forefront of world politics for over a century. People are not expressing themselves in a constructive way and it is equally upsetting to you who has a personal connection to North Dakota. That is understandable.

I hope that you are right and that a major change is coming. You will have to excuse some skepticism however because many people think that change is long overdue.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:33 PM

52. After 30+ years of pretty much only having rightwing talk radio on the airwaves

I can see where changing minds can be very difficult. I do think most of us have little idea about farming. I remember talking to a woman years ago who was going on her first vacation, she was in her 60s and had a dairy farm. She had never been out of Iowa. She and her husband had finally found someone to take over the farm. People who work that hard and hear endlessly on talk radio about how "other people" aren't working and are getting "free stuff" can get to be resentful. I think a lot of problems come from not understanding how other people live.

I am glad to hear that the farmers in ND are beginning to see that 45 does not care about their lives. I only hope that they can see that being apart of a successful society involves accepting that there are a lot of ways to live a life, and we need those different ways to thrive.

Thanks for working so hard for our values my friend.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:40 PM

54. You all win

I will not respond anymore,,I appreciate the very few who read my post and understood..and I hope all of you find somene to take over ground work in North Dakota,,because Im done after reading all your posts,,Good Luck,,DEm 2020,,,



Koz

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Response to kozar (Reply #54)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:50 PM

57. Then you weren't serious to begin with. If you would abandon your effort to elect Democrats,

 

you were never committed to doing so in the first place.

And, curiously, you're going to allow some anonymous posters on the internet move you from your stated mission to support Democrats? Well, that's weak. And we don't need weaklings fucking up our pitch.

And I will trade you spite for spite. Since you are spitefully abandoning your mission in ND because you got your feels all in a mist, I will go there myself and, at least for a time, take up your failed mission.

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Response to Xtermin8 H8 (Reply #57)


Response to kozar (Reply #54)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:07 PM

71. My response to your hidden post:

 

Name the time and place and I will help you talk to voters. If you want to send me a list of ND voters to talk to, I can do that too. Gladly, in fact. And if I find a movement there to the blue side of the spectrum, I will eat my words, apologize, and continue to phone bank ND voters.

And, since you asked, here's what I know about ND: They almost always vote against their own best interests. The state is so flat that you can see Canada from Hettinger. It's cold as fuck in the winter. The capital is Bismark.They produce sugarbeets and wheat and feed corn. Fargo is not just a critically acclaimed TV show by the Coen Brothers, it's an actual ND city, apparently with a weird and quirky bent. ND is in the Central Time Zone. There are very few black people living there. And, honey, they have that. And they consistently vote for thugs, although their urban population has enough sane people to occasionally elect Dems to state offices, including Heidi Heitkamp. Current U.S. Senators are Kevin Cramer and John Hoeven, both useless rethuglicans. That's about all I can think of off the top of my head.

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Response to kozar (Reply #54)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 09:23 AM

105. That wasn't so hard, was it?

From your string of posts and responses, it's pretty clear that you were building up a rationale to tell everyone to piss off. At post #54, you finally hit your note.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:45 PM

56. I don't know ND farmers and defer to people who do. I do know Dem party does not do enough

outreach to rural communities, and do see attitude to your post I find disheartening.

I find this blaming game and stereotyping on this thread of no help to our goal to win 2020 whatsoever and just plain close-minded. Many reasons we are stuck with Trump, among them that Dems didnít vote in enough numbers. I see supercilious attitude here, whether meant or not. Maybe itís just frustration.

Many times I feel discomfort with the voices that are most loud and vociferous, but I know thereís
good sense here too and that emotions run high.

Recently a thread started out praising protesting miners only to end up damning them all for having voted for Trump. Ironic that at first there was great sympathy and then attitudes hardened into F their cause.

So yeah, I have to shake my head.




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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #56)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:58 PM

63. The thing is, kozar was very rude, insulting, and aggressive in his OP right from the jump. If his

 

approach to his comment had been a bit more positive and encouraging, instead of shitty, this thread would have looked a lot different.

Also, all the current data available shows that, as a state, ND hasn't learned a goddamned thing from this misadministration's destruction of our democracy and from the acidity of the political discourse it has inflicted. Anecdotes from the few people OP communicates with do not indicate a popular movement in our direction. If the election were held today, we would lose ND to trump, according to current polling.

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Response to Xtermin8 H8 (Reply #63)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 09:48 PM

69. You mean in this post here? Just not how I read it. He seems to have been frustrated that folks

responding werenít listening. The point he made wasnít any more than to contend that he felt that
minds and hearts could be changed. You folks donít and have polls. I know on good authority that the party washes its hands of rural regions. Bad policy no matter the polls. Blaming whole populations for Trump does not help us in 2020 nor does writing them off.

I donít have a dog in this fight. I think there was a pile on, a rude one, against the OP. Unless I am
missing something, the rude and aggressive was on your side of the fence so to speak.

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #69)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:12 PM

72. The rudeness and aggression was from me? Really? None of my posts in this thread are hidden.

 

On the other hand, kozar did get a hide and can no longer participate in his own thread.



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Response to Xtermin8 H8 (Reply #72)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:58 PM

85. I did not mean you, personally. I meant a point of view represented by posters that I assumed

you shared.

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #85)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 11:17 PM

86. Ah, gotcha. Well, I was hoping to help turn it around to a more productive discussion but he

 

got booted before I could get us there. Indeed, I want him to boost Dems in ND and I was sincere when I said (in Post #71, posted after he was booted in the hopes he'd see it and take heart) that I would even go to ND for a time and work with him to talk to disenchanted trump voters about considering a Democratic option in 2020. He needed to chill because if he thinks this thread was rough, he's in for a world of hurt when he's standing at their door suggesting they vote Dem.

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Response to Xtermin8 H8 (Reply #86)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 01:59 AM

95. Great idea. If the party is not going to make more efforts in rural areas where they might appeal

to people hurt by Trumpís policies, maybe ďlay folksĒ can do some outreach.

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #69)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:27 PM

76. I agree completely.

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #69)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:43 PM

83. I think you were, as you possibly suggest-- missing the repeatedly rude, insulting attitude,,



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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:54 PM

59. Can you give a link to the article about the NoDak farmer? . . .

Spent quite a long time in the state back during the time of Watergate, got to know some of the farmers, and found some to be quite prescient about the doings in Washington. Maybe its those long winter nights, or being hard up against the weather and the banks. Or maybe its the historical roots of the land, steeped in the populist socialism of the NPL and Robert Follette's ideals filtering across the midwest. As a group, they've been reliably Republican for a considerable age but then, things change, doncha know.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 08:55 PM

60. This is one of the strangest threads........

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Response to Cousin Dupree (Reply #60)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 09:11 PM

67. I agree.

And I've known as strange of DU threads as anyone.

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Response to Cousin Dupree (Reply #60)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:37 PM

80. Nothing worse than two newbies who don't know DU

kicking the hell out of each other. I wonder if they want regular or thin and crispy crust?

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #80)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 11:33 PM

87. "Nothing worse"? I can think of lots of things that are worse, beginning with trump as president.

 

Since I am probably one of the two newbies to whom you are referring, I'd like to assure you that I understand that kozar was frustrated and if he hadn't gotten himself two hides and a boot from the thread, together we could have turned it around to a positive discussion.

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Response to Xtermin8 H8 (Reply #87)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 11:58 PM

89. Enjoy your stay!

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #89)


Response to Xtermin8 H8 (Reply #87)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 01:35 PM

107. Well that didn't take long. I hope he stopped at the souvineer stand on the way out.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 09:25 PM

68. Not that long ago

ND has 2 Democratic Senators in Dorgan and Conrad. I believe they had a Democratic Governor very recently. ND only voted McCain by 9% and only voted Dole by 6%. I donít think itís as much of a lost cause as some here imagine.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:05 PM

70. Looks like the majority of them voted for Trump

by their own choice. That doesn't speak well of their ability to use critical thinking skills to process information. If they were cozened once, if they believed Trump's lies and were blinded by his stage show hoopla, then what's to prevent them from checking the same box again?

Republican voters have been brainwashed for the past two generations to vote against their own self interests to the point of threatening their very survival. They have been conditioned to believe in the miracle of trickle down economics and the scripture that says only rich men will give then jobs. That's not hyperbole.

Defend Trump voters if you can, but keep in mind that history has already written their sadly repetitive tale of self destruction.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:13 PM

73. As a southern man with family that farms, I hear what you are saying. Not buying it.

Like you, I remember when rural folks would vote democratic. But if you think they will in 2020 you are kidding yourself.

Right wing radio and Fox News have made this a struggle for survival for white, conservative Christians. They think they lose to democrats, they lose the country. All the non-whites, gays and all.

Like your family almost everything my family enjoys is because of Democratic policy. Roads, power, phones, Social Security, Medicare. Everything. But my formally Democratic voting family will not vote Democratic in the near future. Abortion, people of color and Liberals. They happily vote against their self interest to keep their place in their dying hierarchy.

I hope I am wrong. I love my family. But they live in an alternate universe where America is white folks fighting the good fight. For what? They really canít tell you. But they are fighting it.

Donít leave DU for hearing the awful truth.

If Iím wrong I will owe you s beer!

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:13 PM

74. I'll attempt to be REAL optimistic

but I too have talked to a lot farmers. I consider many of them intelligent, honorable, ethical .. and quite likable as individuals. I also KNOW that you'd be real lucky to find 10% of them that voted anything other than R in the past 8-10 presidential elections. If ND somehow goes D in the next election .. I'll sing praises and dance a jig. 'Til then ....

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Response to stopdiggin (Reply #74)


Response to Name removed (Reply #91)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 09:26 AM

106. and he was the only one since 1936 and FDR nt

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:35 PM

79. They got us into this mess by voting for Trump. Until they do the opposite, what should we

think about them other than "they got us into this mess by voting for Trump"?

I don't want to hear laments a la "oh dear me... I'm being screwed by Trump" from people who voted for him, if the expectation is that I ought to change my opinion about them (an opinion based on the fact that they voted for Trump, to be specific). I want to see them vote differently. Then I will believe they are serious about changing their minds.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:53 PM

84. My brother lives in rural Washington State and I also have talked with a lot of farmers there



Don't think a farmer is sharp? Ask them about the past history of the market price of the crops that they raise.

During the last election the very conservative area had tons of signs supporting the Democrat running against Congresswoman Rodgers (the highest ranking woman in Republican leadership won with 54% of the vote, the lowest she has ever had.

I have talked with many in that district who have never voted for a Democrat and will not be voting for Trump, voting either for the Democrat or staying home.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Tue Aug 27, 2019, 11:56 PM

88. It's not only farmers, it's all of us he screwed

In 2016, at least 370 professional economist signed a letter saying that tRump's economics's plans were dangerous, reckless and his economic background made him unfit.


Every single person in this country was warned, and some people chose not to listen to the warning.


Even if we as manufacturers, farmers, teachers and other professions that we have, we still have an underlying problem. That problem is the republicans refuse to secure our elections while giving us the chance to fair and honest elections. All the farmers in ND could go to the polls and vote Democratic, but if we don't secure our election process and stop the voter purging, we're going to get screwed even more.


Don't give up, keep contacting your representatives, stick around and help get out the vote.




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Response to kozar (Original post)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 12:33 AM

92. North Dakota voted out their Democratic Senator in 2018

 

Now yell rant and scream some more about how thatís irrelevant and I just donít understand.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 12:48 AM

94. from 1986 to 2010, North Dakota had two Democrat Senators. Still had one until 2018. That one seat

was STRAIGHT BLUE for 58 years!

Quentin Burdick
Jocelyn Burdick (for 3 months after he died in office)
Kent Conrad
Heitkamp

WTF happened?

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Response to Celerity (Reply #94)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 02:35 AM

96. Faux News and talk radio (in a nutshell)

they drank the kool-aid

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 04:50 AM

97. I could barely even read this

I don't mind when people are obviously struggling to write -- not everything knows how -- but why all the commas in a row, no spaces after punctuation or paragraphs, and words spelled wrong on purpose?

Also, you are wrong.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 07:11 AM

98. the majority vote R

which is why the state always goes to the Republicans.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 11:24 PM

109. I also live in a red state

Last edited Thu Aug 29, 2019, 08:35 AM - Edit history (1)

Rule #1 Don't take it personal.
Rule #2 I have heard republicans say they would never vote for that guy again, and then they do.
Rule #3 it doesn't matter if you are a farmer, teacher, truck driver, plumber etc. trump is screwing us all. Now reread rule #2.

The best indicator of the future, is to look at the past. ND, like my state is almost solid red and has been that way for a long time. In 2018, the r's only lost one state house seat, but D's lost the US senate seat. In a blue tsunami across the country.

Even now the entire state gives trump a 70% approval rating.

The sooner farmers realize that their crop prices plummeting is not something trump regrets in his trade wars, it's the goal. Drive the small farmers out of business, corporate farmers can scoop up their farms in foreclosure sales. Why do they think they are getting a paltry amount of money, while corporate farms are getting hundreds of thousands?

I wouldn't be so defensive about ND farmers that you know. Read rule #2 again. Does that mean you should stop trying to change minds? No.

Please don't get so defensive. Many here, including me were screaming from the rooftops about how unstable, idiotic, and dangerous trump is. it is well documented in the media how bad he was. But "pissing off a libtard" was more important to them. So yeah, we have anger and frustration when we hear how they didn't know trump would be this bad. THEY. WERE.TOLD & SHOWED all of that before they voted.

As an example, Who the freak would believe that trump would come up with a great health care plan, better and costs less than what we have now, when he cut his own disabled niece off insurance coverage; because his sister-in-law might have said something he didn't like.

I mean, who would fucking do that? A vengeful, petty piece of shit, thats who. Yet they believed him and support him still.

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Response to mercuryblues (Reply #109)

Thu Aug 29, 2019, 07:20 AM

111. Well stated...

I don't like when an entire state is dismissed when we have Dems there working their tails off. But I think your rules are spot on.

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Response to mercuryblues (Reply #109)

Thu Aug 29, 2019, 08:33 AM

112. I have known a lot of farmers here in Missouri. Kansas

and Iowa.

I always found them to be polite, morally conservative hard working and very practical. They also have to be good at business because farming is big business now.

The whole family gets up and goes to church every Sunday.

They aren't dumb at all. And they all talk to each other. I really don't think they would have voted for Trump if they had realized how awful he really is. I never dreamed there could be someone worse than Dick Cheney but turns out we had a whole Senate of them.

I really don't think they will vote for him again.

(These are generalizations of course. )

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #112)

Thu Aug 29, 2019, 09:05 AM

113. trump showed everyone how awful he is

on a daily basis. They knew and didn't care. A person would have had to make a conscious decision to overlook how vile he is to cast their vote for him. If they are honest with themselves, they should admit they never should have voted for him. Not that they are surprised he is unfit.

Like I told my brother- You heard him say "Grab them by the *" and decided that is the man for you. That is the man who you believe should run the country.

Like I said, they were shown how bad trump was and didn't care. Not knowing is not an excuse, they knew. You would have to be stupid to not have known and as you said, they aren't dumb at all.

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Response to mercuryblues (Reply #113)

Sun Sep 1, 2019, 05:43 PM

114. I think they thought his persona was just a front

for the election.

People here just didn't like the Clinton's.

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Sun Sep 1, 2019, 05:46 PM

115. Um...thanks?

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Response to kozar (Original post)

Sun Sep 1, 2019, 05:51 PM

116. I literally cannot understand your post.

 

Itís all random-ass strings of commas and sentence fragments. How the hell am I supposed to parse that?

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