Sat Sep 21, 2019, 10:31 AM

shockey80 (4,379 posts)

All those who argue against impeachment do so for one reason alone.

Fear, fear of what might happen, not what will happen. People fear impeachment because it might help Trump and hurt the Democrats in the election. They do not know if that will happen. People fear impeachment because the Senate will not convict. When it comes to impeachment the Senate is not relevant. It is separate from impeachment.

When people make a decision based on the fear of what might happen, they become static, frozen in time. From that moment on they just go along for the ride and hope for the best. It is a dangerous way of making decisions.

When it comes to the decision of impeaching or not impeaching Trump we know certain things will happen. That's what we should be focused on.

If we do not impeach Trump we know a very dangerous precedent will be set, The normalization of Trumps crimes. Any future president could take full advantage and repeat Trumps crimes. There will also be no official record of all of Trumps impeachable crimes. The Democrats would also be breaking their oath of office.

Some people have suggested after we vote Trump out of office we can then hold him accountable for all his crimes. That is wishful thinking, hope. The politics of doing that may not be feasible. Imagine the Democrats do not impeach Trump, win the Whitehouse and then use the Justice Dept. to go after Trump for his crimes they did not impeach. That would get ugly. When Trump leaves office the best we can hope for is State charges on tax, bank fraud.

If we do impeach Trump the Articles of impeachment become a permanent record of all Trumps crimes. It will protect us from setting a dangerous precedent. The Articles of impeachment will read like a horror movie. If the Democrats decide to send the Articles to the Senate, they will all have to vote and that will become part of the permanent record.

I have fear like everyone else, however I try to fear what I know will happen, not what may happen. Impeach that motherfucker.

155 replies, 29654 views

Thread info Bookmark this thread Trash this thread

Reply to this thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum

Replies to this discussion thread

155 replies	Author	Time	Post
All those who argue against impeachment do so for one reason alone. (Original post)	shockey80	Sep 2019	OP
Why are we allowing a criminal traitor to finish his term(s) without even a blemish on his record?	dalton99a	Sep 2019	#1
+1	c-rational	Sep 2019	#31
His record IS the blemish.	oldsoftie	Sep 2019	#51
Plus, what about this scenario:	no_hypocrisy	Sep 2019	#2
If the fix is in, it doesn't matter if Democrats impeach or not.	bearsfootball516	Sep 2019	#5
Yes- get the Republicans ON RECORD	sharedvalues	Sep 2019	#47
You know if he wins again....	yuiyoshida	Sep 2019	#108
tRump	enid602	Sep 2019	#133
He will probably go to Russia	yuiyoshida	Sep 2019	#135
I'm good with that as long as they're not allowed back...	DeeNice	Sep 2019	#152
In that scenario, 2020 is our last election.	Mr.Bill	Sep 2019	#70
There will be an election in 2020	Falcata	Sep 2019	#72
They still have elections in Russia too	standingtall	Sep 2019	#83
And our last Supreme Court.	zentrum	Sep 2019	#100
What about	DownriverDem	Sep 2019	#114
Worse case, no impeachment, tRump wins, says democrats are weak and ineffective and could	RKP5637	Sep 2019	#3
I agree that is where we are headed....	pangaia	Sep 2019	#28
shut down of independent news media..	mountain grammy	Sep 2019	#96
Need to drive a stake into the ground and say this is is, impeach. We know the Senate will not	RKP5637	Sep 2019	#98
You don't know what people are thinking.	wasupaloopa	Sep 2019	#4
Pelosi can get the votes if she wants to.	shockey80	Sep 2019	#7
Precisely.	dalton99a	Sep 2019	#9
Exactly. The future of our nation is at stake.	Liberty Belle	Sep 2019	#39
To what end?	Jakes Progress	Sep 2019	#67
Roberts will lead the Senate trial. Mitch gets one vote.	Qutzupalotl	Sep 2019	#109
+100000	Pachamama	Sep 2019	#123
roberts will preside. mitch will run the show.	Jakes Progress	Sep 2019	#137
Republican Senators fear Trump	Qutzupalotl	Sep 2019	#138
Losing the House is a high price to pay	Jakes Progress	Sep 2019	#139
or following the Constitution, YMMV.	Qutzupalotl	Sep 2019	#141
I don't want him to squirm.	Jakes Progress	Sep 2019	#146
It is naive to expect the next election will be fair	Qutzupalotl	Sep 2019	#145
I never said to leave him unchecked.	Jakes Progress	Sep 2019	#147
I never said it would be easy.	Qutzupalotl	Sep 2019	#148
I wear my D hat because I'm an American.	Jakes Progress	Sep 2019	#150
I'm thinking of the nation, not of myself.	Qutzupalotl	Sep 2019	#153
You should read the posts to which you reply.	Jakes Progress	Oct 2019	#154
You should try argument instead of insult.	Qutzupalotl	Oct 2019	#155
highly doubtful. and an effort to strong arm	stopdiggin	Sep 2019	#79
Yup. The OP is correct. This is all about fear	KPN	Sep 2019	#84
So you want Nancy Pelosi to strong-arm support for impeachment?	dansolo	Sep 2019	#111
How many votes would we have if the speaker of the house came out in favor of it?	Maraya1969	Sep 2019	#8
the witnesses are the news reports since 2016	Hermit-The-Prog	Sep 2019	#12
...and the mueller report.	spanone	Sep 2019	#54
yup. ITTMFA!	Hermit-The-Prog	Sep 2019	#81
this has got to end.	spanone	Sep 2019	#91
And the witnesses in the Mueller grand juriesss	KPN	Sep 2019	#85
Right. Gotta protect the emperor.	Sinistrous	Sep 2019	#14
once impeachment is started we get access TO those witnesses and documents	not_the_one	Sep 2019	#20
+100000	Pachamama	Sep 2019	#124
How does that work?	StarfishSaver	Sep 2019	#130
Rhetorically are you saying that Democrats that are for impeachment are libtards?	PufPuf23	Sep 2019	#41
i'm thinking the really stupid part is how much of the reluctance is based on	certainot	Sep 2019	#50
Then let everybody defend their votes	Ztolkins	Sep 2019	#56
+1!	KPN	Sep 2019	#86
My greatest fear is we will not win in 2020.	AllyCat	Sep 2019	#65
Exactly. We are fiddling while Rome burns unless	KPN	Sep 2019	#87
And it isn't like we are making a case for using power.	Gore1FL	Sep 2019	#103
Certainly no witnesses in the tri-state area	JonAndKatePlusABird	Sep 2019	#105
What can we, as regular citizens do to make sure that doesn't happen?	Maraya1969	Sep 2019	#6
Pelosi can't do it alone; call Reps, educate your neighbors	Hermit-The-Prog	Sep 2019	#11
Agree!!! "The closest thing that I can think of to what is happening to us now is Nazi Germany.	RKP5637	Sep 2019	#15
"Voting Trump out of office" may be...	SMC22307	Sep 2019	#10
The Cretin will lie and bullshit no matter what is tried. Make the jerk...	Guilded Lilly	Sep 2019	#13
It's REPUBLICANS who need to be hit. NOTHING will harm trump..	pangaia	Sep 2019	#29
Hit them all! The Cretin responds to any slight to his ego. Batter it!	Guilded Lilly	Sep 2019	#53
Don't know	ArcticFox	Sep 2019	#16
List all his crimes.	Scarsdale	Sep 2019	#17
After watching the performance of Democratic legislators	COLGATE4	Sep 2019	#18
You make some very good points. The democrats basically follow the rules and expect the system to	RKP5637	Sep 2019	#44
I couldn't agree with you more. As you very succinctly put it	COLGATE4	Sep 2019	#92
Unpresidented lawlessness.	Ligyron	Sep 2019	#104
Well said.	COLGATE4	Sep 2019	#112
I far more afraid of what will happen if we don't.	paleotn	Sep 2019	#19
Similar to what happened with Chamberlain.	triron	Sep 2019	#21
Exactly.	shockey80	Sep 2019	#23
Amen! The worst part is trump knows they're afraid!	ecstatic	Sep 2019	#22
What if they impeach but fail to convict? Will the talking point be that Trump was exonerated?	still_one	Sep 2019	#24
Fear!	shockey80	Sep 2019	#26
FIRST, thanks for NOT answering my question? I will ask it again. If they fail to convict WILL IT	still_one	Sep 2019	#35
Nixon was never impeached, he resigned when it look certain he would be impeached	PufPuf23	Sep 2019	#48
Thanks, and appreciate the correction on Nixon	still_one	Sep 2019	#49
I am glad to be able to occasionally add something to DU	PufPuf23	Sep 2019	#52
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,	still_one	Sep 2019	#68
If we don't impeach Trump could that also be viewd as exonating him?	standingtall	Sep 2019	#74
This message was self-deleted by its author	Chin music	Sep 2019	#128
WTF? That's already the frigging talking point!	KPN	Sep 2019	#88
There are two ways Trump handles it:	TCJ70	Sep 2019	#117
we are 100 percent sure that the senate will not follow through and we aren't 100 percent sure	yaesu	Sep 2019	#25
Well stated. I can think of other reasons to	Laura PourMeADrink	Sep 2019	#27
I think they're more afraid of what his radicalized white supremacist base would do...	Saint PeLSU	Sep 2019	#30
This administration breaks the law everyday	mountain grammy	Sep 2019	#32
K&R!!! n/t	RKP5637	Sep 2019	#45
There's a duty to impeach at this point. Just like a firefighter has a duty to run into a burning	NightWatcher	Sep 2019	#33
You really nailed it, thank you.	shockey80	Sep 2019	#38
This.	cwydro	Sep 2019	#71
+100000	Pachamama	Sep 2019	#125
Just what you wrote there	Bettie	Sep 2019	#136
So perfectly stated! +∞ nt	ecstatic	Sep 2019	#140
Bravo!	BlueWI	Sep 2019	#142
The game of "What if?" and the danger of counting the votes.......	BarbD	Sep 2019	#34
Good post.	shockey80	Sep 2019	#37
He's a criminal and should be nailed for his crimes.	Odoreida	Sep 2019	#36
The Senate won't convict so there won't be a Pres. Pence, but we should still impeach.	Liberty Belle	Sep 2019	#40
A president Pence would be like a church picnic compared to Trump.	shockey80	Sep 2019	#42
Exactly!!! n/t	RKP5637	Sep 2019	#46
Pence may pose a threat if he injects himself with rabies and meth	dalton99a	Sep 2019	#55
Thank you!	mysteryowl	Sep 2019	#43
No impeachemnt we lose our Democracy,that is whats left of it	INdemo	Sep 2019	#57
Times like these clearly separate cowards from patriots nt	Fiendish Thingy	Sep 2019	#58
Yeah. Just like the "patriots" who gave us nixon.	Jakes Progress	Sep 2019	#63
Patriots are those who stand for, speak out and act on Constitutional principals	Fiendish Thingy	Sep 2019	#93
Is there not fear in the "impeach now" folks too?	Baked Potato	Sep 2019	#59
No, I do not fear impeachment at all.	shockey80	Sep 2019	#60
Trump would welcome impeachment, it's WIN WIN	Baked Potato	Sep 2019	#69
No.	shockey80	Sep 2019	#75
No. It's about accountability and making use of power while you have it.	TCJ70	Sep 2019	#118
I agree he has earned impeachment	Baked Potato	Sep 2019	#121
He will try to make impeachment work for him...and he will definitely...	TCJ70	Sep 2019	#122
Fear! Or Maybe...	reACTIONary	Sep 2019	#61
A unfied Democratic leadership would help. We see Nadler and Schiff speaking out making the case	CentralMass	Sep 2019	#89
KnR	MustBeTheBooz	Sep 2019	#62
I agree absolutely and totally. n/t.	NNadir	Sep 2019	#64
Ironically, it's putting party before country by NOT impeaching that monster.	VOX	Sep 2019	#66
Retweeted by Sally Albright:	Hortensis	Sep 2019	#73
Thank you.	empedocles	Sep 2019	#127
:), TY. Repubs-Russia can't have it all their own way.	Hortensis	Sep 2019	#129
Anybody against impeachment does not care about the Constitution or the present.	LonePirate	Sep 2019	#76
people here were freaking out during the Lewandowski hearings	JI7	Sep 2019	#77
Agreed.	Snackshack	Sep 2019	#78
What will then qualify for impeachment?	Pachamama	Sep 2019	#126
Your guess is as good...	Snackshack	Sep 2019	#134
While this observation and interpretation	melm00se	Sep 2019	#80
This is why...	Catch2.2	Sep 2019	#82
Don't care if...	Lady Freedom Returns	Sep 2019	#90
Fear can be rational - like fear of a second term of his	treestar	Sep 2019	#94
I am starting to put them on Ignore	Skittles	Sep 2019	#95
Bull. Speak for yourself.	pwb	Sep 2019	#97
Bingo	Ponietz	Sep 2019	#99
It seems that when Democrats	Sudsy	Sep 2019	#101
It is the Fear of a Battered Wife	McKim	Sep 2019	#102
History will judge us for our inaction.	Joe941	Sep 2019	#106
This.	cwydro	Sep 2019	#110
i'm just gonna leave this here ...	dweller	Sep 2019	#107
Same group that said we had to support the Iraq invasion	RandiFan1290	Sep 2019	#113
And I would say that all those who argue for impeachment	tavernier	Sep 2019	#115
Yeah, This	RobinA	Sep 2019	#143
But I support Nancy and if she thinks it's time to shoot	tavernier	Sep 2019	#144
I like the idea of impeaching in the House and never sending it to the Senate	Arazi	Sep 2019	#116
K&R	BlueJac	Sep 2019	#119
I still believe frump loses voters if we impeach.	lindysalsagal	Sep 2019	#120
Same mindset as obsessing over "electability."	Jirel	Sep 2019	#131
May i share this?	HelpImSurrounded	Sep 2019	#132
A question about State charges:	Lock him up.	Sep 2019	#149
It's not about left & right it's about right & wrong	DeeNice	Sep 2019	#151

Response to shockey80 (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2019, 10:35 AM

dalton99a (75,531 posts)

All those who argue against impeachment do so for one reason alone.

1. Why are we allowing a criminal traitor to finish his term(s) without even a blemish on his record?

31. +1

51. His record IS the blemish.

2. Plus, what about this scenario:

5. If the fix is in, it doesn't matter if Democrats impeach or not.

47. Yes- get the Republicans ON RECORD

108. You know if he wins again....

133. tRump

135. He will probably go to Russia

152. I'm good with that as long as they're not allowed back...

70. In that scenario, 2020 is our last election.

72. There will be an election in 2020

83. They still have elections in Russia too

100. And our last Supreme Court.

114. What about

3. Worse case, no impeachment, tRump wins, says democrats are weak and ineffective and could

28. I agree that is where we are headed....

96. shut down of independent news media..

98. Need to drive a stake into the ground and say this is is, impeach. We know the Senate will not

4. You don't know what people are thinking.

7. Pelosi can get the votes if she wants to.

9. Precisely.

39. Exactly. The future of our nation is at stake.

67. To what end?

109. Roberts will lead the Senate trial. Mitch gets one vote.

123. +100000

137. roberts will preside. mitch will run the show.

138. Republican Senators fear Trump

139. Losing the House is a high price to pay

141. or following the Constitution, YMMV.

146. I don't want him to squirm.

145. It is naive to expect the next election will be fair

147. I never said to leave him unchecked.

148. I never said it would be easy.

150. I wear my D hat because I'm an American.

153. I'm thinking of the nation, not of myself.

154. You should read the posts to which you reply.

155. You should try argument instead of insult.

79. highly doubtful. and an effort to strong arm

84. Yup. The OP is correct. This is all about fear

111. So you want Nancy Pelosi to strong-arm support for impeachment?

8. How many votes would we have if the speaker of the house came out in favor of it?

12. the witnesses are the news reports since 2016

54. ...and the mueller report.

81. yup. ITTMFA!

91. this has got to end.

85. And the witnesses in the Mueller grand juriesss

14. Right. Gotta protect the emperor.

20. once impeachment is started we get access TO those witnesses and documents

124. +100000

130. How does that work?

41. Rhetorically are you saying that Democrats that are for impeachment are libtards?

50. i'm thinking the really stupid part is how much of the reluctance is based on

56. Then let everybody defend their votes

86. +1!

65. My greatest fear is we will not win in 2020.

87. Exactly. We are fiddling while Rome burns unless

103. And it isn't like we are making a case for using power.

105. Certainly no witnesses in the tri-state area

6. What can we, as regular citizens do to make sure that doesn't happen?

11. Pelosi can't do it alone; call Reps, educate your neighbors

15. Agree!!! "The closest thing that I can think of to what is happening to us now is Nazi Germany.

10. "Voting Trump out of office" may be...

13. The Cretin will lie and bullshit no matter what is tried. Make the jerk...

29. It's REPUBLICANS who need to be hit. NOTHING will harm trump..

53. Hit them all! The Cretin responds to any slight to his ego. Batter it!

16. Don't know

17. List all his crimes.

18. After watching the performance of Democratic legislators

44. You make some very good points. The democrats basically follow the rules and expect the system to

92. I couldn't agree with you more. As you very succinctly put it

104. Unpresidented lawlessness.

112. Well said.

19. I far more afraid of what will happen if we don't.

21. Similar to what happened with Chamberlain.

23. Exactly.

22. Amen! The worst part is trump *knows* they're afraid!

24. What if they impeach but fail to convict? Will the talking point be that Trump was exonerated?

26. Fear!

22. Amen! The worst part is trump knows they're afraid!