Ted Lieu: we should use INHERENT CONTEMPT .... (ie Congress should lock up witnesses in contempt)

[sharedvalues]

Link to tweet

[lindysalsagal]

1. It appears congress has stuck their heads in the same sandy beach where the senate holds up

because, otherwise it makes no sense to say that the congress doesn't know about this whistle blower, when it's been on the news for days.

[empedocles]

4. Patience. The foundations are being put in place.

[Orrex]

40. LOL

Judging from all available evidence, Democrats are working hard to keep their powder dry until the day they lose their House majority, whereupon they'll once again have an excuse for the impotent compliance.

If this presidential term ends without the House initiating impeachment, then history will rightly record the Pelosi House as in full agreement with everything Trump has done.

[empedocles]

2. Hmmm. THe Speaker speaks. Sounds good.

[malaise]

3. Yes

Get thee to the greatest page

[StarfishSaver]

5. Fines through inherent contempt are more likely and effective than trying to lock anyone up

[sharedvalues]

9. Detention AND fines are possible under inherent contempt

(Normally I don’t quote the Hill but this columnist is a legitimate one.)

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/405015-congress-should-invoke-revised-inherent-contempt-procedure-in-doj

Historically, inherent contempt has been the most effective enforcement method available to Congress. Both chambers employed it highly successfully from the founding of the republic until 1934, even after enactment of the criminal contempt statute in 1857. Indeed, from 1857-1934, at least 28 witnesses complied with congressional information demands after being threatened with or charged in inherent contempt proceedings and two executive branch officials were arrested pursuant to contempt citations.

The Supreme Court has also ruled repeate

dly and unequivocally that the authority to arrest, conduct trials of, and directly punish contemnors is inherent in the legislative power of Congress and is an essential institutional self-protective mechanism.

[StarfishSaver]

23. I know that

I just don't detention is feasible under the circumstances. Fines are much more logic and effective.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

34. How do they enforce fines?

[StarfishSaver]

36. Attach bank accounts, garnish wages, property liens are some ways

Much easier than trying to storm DOJ or Treasury in order to try to take them into custody.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

38. Wouldn't that get tied up in the courts - for years?

Would that involve the judiciary? Or can Congress enforce the fine?

[StarfishSaver]

44. Possibly. But no more so than any attempt to arrest and detain them

And it would likely move much quicker since once Congress has a valid order, it can take that order straight to a bank or county tax auditor's office to execute it. The witness, of course can try to fight it, but it's much harder to fight executing on a fine than a detention.

[mcar]

46. I would like to see them start fining

those who are ignoring subpoenas.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

6. when the DoJ has been taken over by the mob, you do your own arrests

[dalton99a]

7. +1

[pnwmom]

8. We don't have a House jail anymore, so there's no place to lock anyone up.

So what he is talking abuts assessing daily fines.

[sharedvalues]

11. Could use a conference room. Or the DC jail

“We have the power to detain and incarcerate,” Rep. Gerry Connolly (D-VA), a member of the House Oversight Committee, recently told reporters. “We don’t use it. ... Doesn’t mean we can’t, and I’m all for reviving it.”

When asked where Congress would put members of the Trump administration, Connolly pointed to DC’s jail.

“We have, as you know, jurisdiction over the District of Columbia,” he said. “And they have a beautiful jail with plenty of room. So I think that would be just perfect for some of these people to contemplate their actions and judgment.”

[Mr.Bill]

12. Once we take back the Senate and the White House

maybe we could start sending them to GITMO.

[sharedvalues]

19. Water boarding isn't torture according to Republicans

So it should be fine to waterboard a few of the Trumpers, right? Just ask John Yoo

[pnwmom]

17. I don't think Connolly's right about that, since the US attorney, who is under Barr,

controls the DC local courts.

https://wamu.org/story/19/09/19/d-c-statehood-is-back-on-the-table-heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-its-push-to-become-the-51st-state/

But there is one other element of the court system that does have a connection to statehood: D.C. is the only jurisdiction where a U.S. attorney appointed by the president prosecutes local, in addition to federal, crimes.

[sharedvalues]

18. No. DC jail is controlled by Muriel Bowser, mayor of DC

And the DC Council.

And DC would LOVE to imprison a Trumper handed over by Congress for inherent contempt.

LOVE.


The US atty in DC (Jessie Liu, a horrible person and Republican traitor to America) is indeed a federal employee.
But the DC jail is not controlled by the Fed govt but by the District of Columbia.

[sharedvalues]

21. DC jail is run by DC

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/D.C._Jail

[Magoo48]

26. Nobody has the intestinal fortitude to act.

Democrats and the American people take another kick of sand to the face. How many is that now? Perhaps 50? Patience? Right?

[usaf-vet]

29. How about chainlink paddocks in the congressional gym.

If that form of detention is good enough for kids. I say it a fitting solution for spoiled arrogant congressional/administrative brats.

A night of two sleeping on the floor with minimal bedding. Should start to adjust attitudes.

Showers every third day and communal toilets should further the attitude adjustments.

Let's give it a try.

[mjvpi]

43. Exactly. My first thought

[Pepsidog]

10. Blah, Blah, Blah! Take an example from Nike and Just Do It!!

[Evolve Dammit]

13. I'd like to believe her but the track record is very weak, going back to W.

[Duppers]

33. Exactly!

[yaesu]

14. as I understand it, the Congress jail cell in the basement is being used for storing Lincolns

Hearse.

[bottomofthehill]

27. Nope not the jail and never was

Unban legend, and it it the catafalque ( not Hearse) that all Presidents who have Laid in State have rested ok in the Rotunda since President Lincoln. There are Iron gates protecting it so people have decided it was the jail. It could be used as a jail, but there are many better spaces, including the jail cells in USCP headquarters.

[triron]

15. Schiff has hinted at it as well. I say stop hinting and just do it already.

This administration will continue to just give the finger otherwise.

[ArcticFox]

16. Responses to Pelosi on Twitter

I didn't count, but they seem to be 49:1 in favor of doing more than writing letters.

[triron]

30. Question is does she give that any weight?

[shanti]

20. Let's start with Bill Barr

He really is the one that's keeping this shite going. He and McConnell, that is.

[onetexan]

22. agree, Moscow Mitch & LowBarr!!

[grantcart]

24. People on the thread have made interesting comments about the jail but that isn't the problem

You could take a wing on the second floor at a Courtyard hotel and with control of the doors have an excellent facility.

The much greater problem is having personnel skilled in arrest and guarding.

My memory is that it has to be done under the Sgt of Arms whose office is more ceremonial now.

They will have to hire professional law enforcement officers and establish SOP, more difficult than arranging a temporary facility.

[sharedvalues]

25. DC jail has this

I get your point, and just note that these issues have to be worked out but there are answers.

[triron]

31. Congress has the historical benefit of the methods used before.

[grantcart]

51. They have to use law enforcement officers that are in the Sgt of Arms office.

Municipal or district officers will not have jurisdiction.

[mjvpi]

47. Great point. They should start hiring personnel immediately

I think that fact alone would make a strong statement. ”Carry a big stick”.

[wryter2000]

28. Is it his committee?

Can he simply do it? Does the committee have to vote?

I would sure love to see this.

[SevenGensinSC]

32. Inherent Contempt Background

First Post here is a link. There are tons and tons of opinions about what the Congress can and cannot do to enforce its subpoenas. There is a great analysis done in the University of Pennsylvania Law Review done in the past that should be a must-read for all interested in the pursuit of the truth and holding accountable the current Regime. Let me give you a heads-up on my opinion of what this says: The Congress by the authority of a Writ from the Speaker can commit to prison any one cited for contempt until they remove the source of the contempt. Once in jail, and there is no legal intervention possible at all to prevent jailing, then and only then, can a court challenge be brought for release, such as habeas corpus, while the one committed under the Speaker's Writ remains in prison.
https://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=8117&context=penn_law_review
See if you agree with this that a contempt citation and a Speaker's Writ is all Nancy needs to do to bring the subpoena refusers to account.

[Baked Potato]

45. I just noticed your link here

I provided another link below to a Congressional Report regarding Inherent Contempt. With both of these, it’s probably more than we’ll ever need on the subject. Thanks.

[Duppers]

35. Absolutely! 👍👍

[Kablooie]

37. I don't expect them to use this even though it is available.

The Democrats seem terrified that they will appear to be bullies if they use any truly coercive methods against the Trump administration.

Trump can engage openly in criminal activities and the Democrats simply send protests to the judiciary where they disappear. First it will take years to adjudicate and with Trump's lacky, Barr, heading it up they are likely to be buried anyway.


I wish they would grow some balls and attack!
They always follow the most timid procedure which allows Trump to run in circles around.
I consider Democrats jointly culpable for Trump's destruction of the nation because they are scared to really stand up to him.

I expect the Dem candidate to lose if nothing serious is done.
It's not going to be about who gets the votes.
It will be about who has manipulated, cheated and rigged the election the most.
Trump will do every illegal thing his minions can conceive to ensure that there is no chance for the Dem to win.
And because of the electoral college they only have to concentrate on a few state elections to guarantee Trump a minimum of 4 more years.
It's scary.

[LiberalLovinLug]

39. Emphasis on "SHOULD"

Their next election slogan "SHOULDA COULDA WOULDA"

[Baked Potato]

41. Inherent Contempt looks interesting, a Report

Excerpt from Page 13 of 90 of the Report:Congress’s Contempt Power and the Enforcement of Congressional Subpoenas: Law, History, Practice, and Procedure


Inherent Contempt Proceedings by Committees of Congress

As has been indicated, although the majority of the inherent contempt actions by both the House and the Senate were conducted via trial at the bar of the full body, there is historical evidence to support the notion that this is not the exclusive procedure by which such proceeding can occur. This history, when combined with a 1992 Supreme Court decision addressing the power of Congress to make its own rules for the conduct of impeachment trials,96 strongly suggests that the inherent contempt process can be supported and facilitated by the conduct of evidentiary proceedings and the development of recommendations at the committee level.

And, Page 34:

Enforcement of a Criminal or Inherent Contempt Resolution Against an Executive Branch Official

Although the DOJ appears to have acknowledged that properly authorized procedures for seeking civil enforcement provide the preferred method of enforcing a subpoena directed against an executive branch official,260 the executive branch has consistently taken the position that Congress cannot, as a matter of statutory or constitutional law, invoke either its inherent contempt authority or the criminal contempt of Congress procedures261 against an executive branch official acting on instructions by the President to assert executive privilege in response to a congressional subpoena. Under such circumstances, the Attorney General has previously directed the U.S. Attorney to refrain from pursuing a criminal contempt prosecution under 2 U.S.C. §§192, 194.262 This view is most fully articulated in two opinions by the DOJ’s Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) from the mid-1980s,263 and further evidenced by actions taken by the DOJ in the Burford, Miers, and Holder disputes, discussed below.264 As a result, when an executive branch official is invoking executive privilege at the behest of the President, the criminal contempt provision may prove ineffective, forcing Congress to rely on other avenues to enforce subpoenas, including civil enforcement through the federal courts.

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/RL/RL34097

I don’t think Lewandowski was an “Executive Branch Official”. I don’t know how binding the report is, but it covers a lot of what’s been going on. Lotsa case law and legalese.

[The Wielding Truth]

42. Yes. Honestly. He should be locked up for contempt of congress.

[sinkingfeeling]

48. Let's stop talking about it and actually do it.

[Orrex]

49. No way! We have to keep our powder dry!

Nothing is more important than dry powder.

[triron]

50. +1000

[SMC22307]

52. "We should," "we must," "we cannot,"

just fucking do it!

[Duppers]

53. Another K & R

[triron]

54. This was also stated in the letter by the 7 freshman national security reps.

[onenote]

55. Just to be clear: someone charged with "inherent contempt" has due process rights

The entire House would, in effect, have to hold a proceeding to determine whether the person was guilty of contempt. In the meantime, that person would have his/her lawyers filing a petition for habeas corpus almost immediately after the "arrest". In the end, it is highly unlikely that anyone would be held for very long and that person would be hailed as the victim of overreach by the House Democrats the moment he/she is released pending the trial (if one is even allowed to take place).

From the CRS study of inherent contempt: "The pattern was thereby established of attachment by the Sergeant-at-Arms; appearance before the bar; provision for specification of charges, identification of the accuser, compulsory process, counsel, and a hearing; determination of guilt; imposition of penalty."

[sharedvalues]

57. Filing petition of habeas corpus

From jail.

You’re right about the trial

[triron]

56. knr