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mountain grammy

(26,898 posts)
Sat Oct 5, 2019, 04:56 PM Oct 2019

Michael Moore on Facebook reviewing Joker

On Wednesday night I attended the New York Film Festival and witnessed a cinematic masterpiece, the film that last month won the top prize as the Best Film of the Venice International Film Festival. It’s called “Joker” — and all we Americans have heard about this movie is that we should fear it and stay away from it. We’ve been told it’s violent and sick and morally corrupt — an incitement and celebration of murder. We’ve been told that police will be at every screening this weekend in case of “trouble.” Our country is in deep despair, our constitution is in shreds, a rogue maniac from Queens has access to the nuclear codes — but for some reason, it’s a movie we should be afraid of.

I would suggest the opposite: The greater danger to society may be if you DON’T go see this movie. Because the story it tells and the issues it raises are so profound, so necessary, that if you look away from the genius of this work of art, you will miss the gift of the mirror it is offering us. Yes, there’s a disturbed clown in that mirror, but he’s not alone — we’re standing right there beside him.

“Joker” is no superhero or supervillain or comic book movie. The film is set somewhere in the ‘70s or ‘80s in Gotham City - and the filmmakers make no attempt to disguise it for anything other than what it is: New York City, the headquarters of all evil: the rich who rule us, the banks and corporations for whom we serve, the media which feeds us a daily diet “news” they think we should absorb. This past week, a week when a sitting President indicted himself because, in true Joker style, he was laughing himself silly at Mueller’s and the Dems’ inability to stop him, so he just quadrupled down and handed them everything they needed. But even then, after ten days of his flaunting his guilt, he was still sitting with his KFC grease-stained nuclear codes in the Oval Office, so he told
Captain Sketchy to fire up the helicopter, the sound of its blades revving up, meant only to alert the reporters to scurry outside for the daily “press conference” — Trump walks outside into the deafening cacophony of the whirlybird and publicly and feloniously asks the Peoples Republic of China to interfere in our 2020 election by sending him dirt on the Bidens. He and his magic carpet of hair then walked away and, other than the citizen howls of “CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS?!”, nothing happened. As “Joker” opens this weekend, Joker, Jr. Is still still sitting at John F. Kennedy’s desk in the Oval Office on the days he shows up to work, dreaming of his next conquest and debauchery.

But this movie is not about Trump. It’s about the America that gave us Trump — the America which feels no need to help the outcast, the destitute. The America where the filthy rich just get richer and filthier.

Except in this story a discomfiting question is posed: What if one day the dispossessed decide to fight back? And I don’t mean with a clipboard registering people to vote. People are worried this movie may be true
oo violent for them. Really? Considering everything we’re living through in real life? You allow your school to conduct “active shooter drills” with your children, permanently, emotionally damaging them as we show these little ones
that this is the life we’ve created for them. “Joker” makes it clear we don’t really want to get to the bottom of this, or to try to understand why innocent people turn in to Jokers after they can no longer keep it together. No one wants to ask why two smart boys skipped their 4th-hour AP French Philosophy class at Columbine High to slaughter 12 students and a teacher. Who would dare ask why the son of a vice-president of General Electric would go into Sandy Hook Elementary in
Newtown, CT and blow the tiny bodies apart of 20 first-graders. Or why did 53% of White women vote for the presidential candidate who, on tape, reveled in his talent as a sexual predator?

The fear and outcry over “Joker” is a ruse. It’s a distraction so that we don’t look at the real violence tearing up our fellow human beings — 30 million Americans who don’t have health insurance is an act of violence. Millions of abused women and children living in fear is an act of violence. Cramming 59 students like worthless sardines into classrooms in Detroit is an act of violence.

As the news media stands by for the next mass shooting, you and your neighbors and co-workers have already been shot numerous times, shot straight through all of your hearts and hopes and dreams. Your pension is long gone. You’re in debt for the next 30 years because you committed the crime of wanting an education. You have actually thought about not having children because you don’t have the heart to bring them onto a dying planet where they are given a 20-year death-by-climate-change sentence at birth. The violence in “Joker”? Stop! Most of the violence in the movie is perpetrated on the Joker himself, a person in need of help, someone trying to survive on the margins of a greedy society. His crime is that he can’t get help. His crime is that he is the butt of a joke played on HIM by the rich and famous. When the Joker decides he can no longer take it — yes, you will feel awful. Not because of the (minimal) blood on the screen, but because deep down, you were cheering him on - and if you’re honest when that happens, you will thank this movie for connecting you to a new desire — not to run to the nearest exit to save your own ass but rather to stand and fight and focus your attention on the nonviolent power you hold in your hands every single day. Thank you Joaquin Phoenix, Todd Phillips, Warner Bros. and all who made this important movie for this important time. I loved this film’s multiple homages to Taxi Driver, Network, The French Connection, Dog Day Afternoon. How long has it been since we’ve seen a movie aspire to the level of Stanley Kubrick? Go see this film. Take your teens. Take your resolve.

This is excellent and why I'll always be a Michael Moore fan. I admit to buying into Joker propaganda. Moore is setting me straight once again.

Thank you, Michael Moore.
43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Michael Moore on Facebook reviewing Joker (Original Post) mountain grammy Oct 2019 OP
"The America where the filthy rich just get richer and filthier" chowder66 Oct 2019 #1
Not a Michael Moore fan but Turin_C3PO Oct 2019 #2
agreed! nt Maru Kitteh Oct 2019 #4
That was an interesting read. cwydro Oct 2019 #3
Insights like this are why I used to really like MM Downtown Hound Oct 2019 #5
Yes! justie18 Oct 2019 #10
He warned us so much about trump I was sick of listening to him.. mountain grammy Oct 2019 #12
Michael Moore predicts the Republican will win in EVERY election Downtown Hound Oct 2019 #14
I disagree. mountain grammy Oct 2019 #15
I used to feel the same Downtown Hound Oct 2019 #19
Well this Democrat thinks he's an asshole BannonsLiver Oct 2019 #20
+1 Paka Oct 2019 #26
Me too. Had no plans to see it mountain grammy Oct 2019 #28
I think you'll find a lot of people on the far left BannonsLiver Oct 2019 #24
Oh, I know you'll find a lot of people on the left that not only love him Downtown Hound Oct 2019 #27
That's completely ridiculous mountain grammy Oct 2019 #30
Ok. BannonsLiver Oct 2019 #31
if you're not on the left, where are you? mountain grammy Oct 2019 #32
Ok. BannonsLiver Oct 2019 #33
So you're not on the left? mountain grammy Oct 2019 #34
+1 Docreed2003 Oct 2019 #29
Comic book politics is not my thing GeorgeGist Oct 2019 #6
First of all, comics have been involved in serious social issues since they started, Cuthbert Allgood Oct 2019 #22
Very well said mountain grammy Oct 2019 #40
Good movie. Just saw it. It will stay in your mind for a long time. kyburbonkid Oct 2019 #7
and to think I wasn't going to see it.. mountain grammy Oct 2019 #11
I saw it 5 hours ago. Cuthbert Allgood Oct 2019 #23
Agree mountain grammy Oct 2019 #39
I'll accept his commentary about this film only because defacto7 Oct 2019 #8
I just saw it today thegoose Oct 2019 #9
I'll see it as soon as I can. mountain grammy Oct 2019 #13
Yup Cuthbert Allgood Oct 2019 #25
Tix purchased 3 days ago - Sunday matinee here we come!! Missn-Hitch Oct 2019 #16
Come back and tell us what you think. mountain grammy Oct 2019 #17
Will do. Hope you get out this weekend to see it. Cheers! Missn-Hitch Oct 2019 #18
Hi Grammy! It was good. REAlly good. Missn-Hitch Oct 2019 #36
Saw it last night mountain grammy Oct 2019 #38
Agreed. Cheers! Missn-Hitch Oct 2019 #42
Michael Moore says things I myself say but nobody wants to hear. rickyhall Oct 2019 #21
Excellent review. As usual I agree with Moore. I have to say when I heard of this I thought "Ugh!" underpants Oct 2019 #35
Never have seen the Dark Knight mountain grammy Oct 2019 #43
Oh my god what an utterly unsurprising and laughable take from Michael Moore. WhiskeyGrinder Oct 2019 #37
I'm just so sick to death of comic book movies, I can't. eShirl Oct 2019 #41

Downtown Hound

(12,618 posts)
5. Insights like this are why I used to really like MM
Sat Oct 5, 2019, 06:08 PM
Oct 2019

It was only when he resorted non-stop Democratic bashing that I gave up on him.


(169 posts)
10. Yes!
Sat Oct 5, 2019, 06:49 PM
Oct 2019

My sentiments exactly! In fact, I went to one of his live shows when he was campaigning for Kerry in 2004.

Downtown Hound

(12,618 posts)
14. Michael Moore predicts the Republican will win in EVERY election
Sat Oct 5, 2019, 07:21 PM
Oct 2019

This is nothing new. The point where I finally gave up on him was when he said Barack Obama will be remembered only as, "the first black president." Obama wasn't perfect, but given the circumstances under which he took office and with which he had to work with he did an incredible job. I get sick of people like Moore only denigrating Democrats and never giving them any credit for what they do accomplish, and Obama accomplished a lot. The prevalence of attitudes like his did just as much to elect Donald Trump as anything Hillary Clinton did with her so-called "scandals."

Michael Moore helped give us W too by hawking Nader.

mountain grammy

(26,898 posts)
15. I disagree.
Sat Oct 5, 2019, 07:27 PM
Oct 2019

I'm a Democrat and thank Moore for his relentless honesty. We allow ourselves to be painted as the same as republicans. We quote Ronald Reagan for respect we'll never get.

Moore is a fighting liberal and I love that he's out there.


(2,760 posts)
26. +1
Sat Oct 5, 2019, 08:00 PM
Oct 2019

He's perceptive and engaged. Somethimes the truth hurts.

I had no plans to see the movie, but now I hope it comes to Thailand so I can see it.

mountain grammy

(26,898 posts)
28. Me too. Had no plans to see it
Sat Oct 5, 2019, 08:25 PM
Oct 2019

Now after reading this and a ringing endorsement from my son I will.
Hope all’s well in Thailand. My husband has fond memories.


(17,027 posts)
24. I think you'll find a lot of people on the far left
Sat Oct 5, 2019, 07:59 PM
Oct 2019

That admire and value Michael Moore also can’t stand President Obama. They disregard the unprecedented, racially fueled obstruction completely, and then blame him because they didn’t get their magic unicorn show pony. It’s quite disgusting. And you are right about Moore. The Nader shit in 2000 did it for me but unfortunately snake oil always has a market.

Downtown Hound

(12,618 posts)
27. Oh, I know you'll find a lot of people on the left that not only love him
Sat Oct 5, 2019, 08:03 PM
Oct 2019

but agree with him. And that's precisely the problem. And Moore doesn't help the situation at all. He makes it worse.

mountain grammy

(26,898 posts)
30. That's completely ridiculous
Sat Oct 5, 2019, 08:30 PM
Oct 2019

And pretty much sounds like the snake oil sold by corporate and right wing media.

mountain grammy

(26,898 posts)
32. if you're not on the left, where are you?
Sat Oct 5, 2019, 09:06 PM
Oct 2019

Like Jim Hightower said:

"There's nothing in the middle of the road but a yellow stripe and dead armadillos."


(17,027 posts)
33. Ok.
Sat Oct 5, 2019, 09:07 PM
Oct 2019

Btw, Jim Hightower has bad mouthed every Dem president and nominee over the last 30 years. He also was extremely critical of Hillary in 2016. I couldn’t care less what he has to say about anything. His shtick is for people impressed by folksy witticisms and who see the world in exclusively black and white. Which is also how Moore sees it. Spoiler alert: It’s not black and white.

Cuthbert Allgood

(5,097 posts)
22. First of all, comics have been involved in serious social issues since they started,
Sat Oct 5, 2019, 07:58 PM
Oct 2019

so get over yourself.

Second, this movie does a FANTASTIC job of looking at mental health, the treatment of those with mental health issues, and the way the rich elite don't give a shit about anyone.

Also, you don't need to now anything about comic books to see this movie (knowing that Bruce Wayne becomes Batman, that Thomas Wayne is his dad, and that Arkham Asylum is a really bad place helps make a few things be more poignant, but you don't need to know those things).

But, mostly, get over yourself.

mountain grammy

(26,898 posts)
40. Very well said
Mon Oct 7, 2019, 09:49 AM
Oct 2019

Comic books and super heroes got going during the Great Depression. They were absolutely a commentary on American life and culture and cruelty.


(251 posts)
7. Good movie. Just saw it. It will stay in your mind for a long time.
Sat Oct 5, 2019, 06:15 PM
Oct 2019

Intense, emotionally involving, disturbing. A thick, deep story that if it didn't have a Batman reference, you would never know. I think Michel Moore's review sums it up well. Excellent psyco-thriller drama.

mountain grammy

(26,898 posts)
11. and to think I wasn't going to see it..
Sat Oct 5, 2019, 06:54 PM
Oct 2019

Now I will. He references, Dog Day Afternoon, Taxi Driver and The French Connection.. all movies that stick with you.



(3,115 posts)
9. I just saw it today
Sat Oct 5, 2019, 06:34 PM
Oct 2019

And what Moore says is true. Our antihero is beaten down until he literally goes out of his mind. This film attacks the one percent, so of course they're going to jump up on their high horses and tell us it's too dangerous to watch.

Fuck you, Dump, and the rest of your filthy brethren. This is Big Brother shit.


(1,383 posts)
36. Hi Grammy! It was good. REAlly good.
Mon Oct 7, 2019, 09:04 AM
Oct 2019

I plan on multiple viewings. Maybe one more before it leaves the theatres.

Have a great day!


(4,889 posts)
21. Michael Moore says things I myself say but nobody wants to hear.
Sat Oct 5, 2019, 07:54 PM
Oct 2019

He makes me think I'm not as crazy as many people think I am. I rant & rage about what the repugs have done to my state (Texas) and my country (USA) since 1980. I knew Nixon was a crook but he never tried to fuck my country like Raygun and his successors have.


(184,056 posts)
35. Excellent review. As usual I agree with Moore. I have to say when I heard of this I thought "Ugh!"
Sun Oct 6, 2019, 02:55 PM
Oct 2019

A third modern rendition of the same character. Nicholson's version was really thin especially for a Tim Burton film - it was Jack being Jack but that sells tickets. Heath Ledger gave a performance in the top 10 easily of all time in my estimation- my wife watched it last night for the first time and was amazed. Joaquin had a weird period, almost Andy Kaufmanesque, but while I was watching it I got a real sense of his artistic chops. He took chances, he takes chances. That's what artists do.

Not a comic book reader even in my youth but The Joker has always seemed like the CRAZY counter to Bruce Wayne/Batman. Ultra wealthy, oooold wealth. As much as I like Batman movies (most of them) I've always seen Batman as a guy with toys. A guy who simply can afford them. The Dark Knight was a masterpiece.

I'm looking forward to seeing this.

mountain grammy

(26,898 posts)
43. Never have seen the Dark Knight
Mon Oct 7, 2019, 01:40 PM
Oct 2019

Saw Joker with my daughter last night. We both think it's excellent. I saw it thanks to my son who highly recommended it, along with MM.

Now my daughter's convinced me to see Dark Knight. After the Aurora shooting, I just couldn't, but she said if I like Joker I'll like Dark Knight.

My children are so much smarter than me.

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