Food Stamps ***Rant***

[rbrnmw]

I get sick of the bullshit about what someone buys with Foodstamps The People who get them have to work them off at a rate of about $4 dollars an hour They don't sit on their ass and get Foodstamps it doesn't happen anymore They work harder and for less money than most and Definitely harder than Congress and Mitt Romney so Shut the Fuck Up and Mind your Own Damn Business

[Scuba]

1. Food stamps are bad for the economy though, right Moodys? You know, Moodys. The bond-raters.

<a href="http://imgur.com/T7qoo"><img src="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" alt="" /></a>

[Motown_Johnny]

4. Yes, $1.73 stimulus for each $1.00 spent, plus PEOPLE GET TO EAT!

Mind boggling how we can't fold this issue into the shape of a baseball bat and beat Conservatives over the head with it (metaphorically).

[Scuba]

12. Well, it's a no-brainer, so they should get it, but sometimes they know less than zero.

[Motown_Johnny]

2. My new line against the few Conservatives I am forced to speak with is:

I grew up in a world where parents in America told their children to eat everything on their plates because of all the starving children in China.

If Conservatives continue to have their way with economic policies, I may very well grow old in a world where parents in China tell their children to eat everything on their plates because of all the starving children in America.





How the hell can people be against food assistance? Doesn't our society own anything to it's members?


If any other government in the world was inflicting this type of hardship on Americans we would nuke it out of existence.


I just can't wrap my head around it.

[CrispyQ]

5. "How the hell can people be against food assistance?"

Because someone might get a birthday cake & a half gallon of ice cream that they don't deserve.

They begrudge helping their neighbors & community members, but it's ok that GE got a tax refund.

[Motown_Johnny]

10. What child in America doesn't deserve a birthday cake & a half gallon of ice cream?

I get your point though.

Pure selfishness.

[rbrnmw]

18. that made me cry just the thought

Last edited Sun Sep 2, 2012, 06:15 PM - Edit history (1)

that anyone would be angry over a child getting a cake we need to SHAME all people that complain about Food Stamps and Welfare

[hedgehog]

20. Bravo!

[CrispyQ]

65. I worked at a grocery store for 10 years.

I've seen it. It was heart wrenching. Some mean spirited woman making nasty comments as a young woman paid for her kid's BD party with food stamps. It was nothing excessive - a little two layer cake with some candles & ice cream & a few other items. The nasty POS could not keep her mouth shut. The young woman was on the verge of tears & her little one didn't understand what was going on, only that this was supposed to be fun & now it wasn't.

When I gave her her change I gave her a big smile & said, "It's ok. You have a great birthday party!"

I was very young & too terrified to call out the offending customer, because she was a customer too. Today, however, I would have said something. As a former checker, it's always great when another customer takes the lead & calls out the offending behavior.

[Motown_Johnny]

67. No wonder you used that as an example

I think that would have stuck with me too.


You did the right thing to be comforting and supportive. The child didn't need to see a confrontation and he/she is really the important part of that story.

[CrispyQ]

77. You'll love this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021259981

Bravo!

[nolabear]

75. It's tempting to keep a pocketful of pennies for such occasions.

When someone makes a snarky comment I'd like to pull one out and hand it to them, with "Here's your contribution times a thousand!"

But like you, I find it hard to out-bitch the bitchy.

[toddwv]

51. You're talking about people

who think that education and science are bad and that the only way to keep teens from having sex is to lie to them and make them pinkie swear not to.

[Zalatix]

53. That day is already here.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/more-americans-chinese-t-put-food-table-132752601.html

The number of Americans who lack access to basic necessities like food and health care is now higher than it was at the peak of the Great Recession, a survey released Thursday found. And in a finding that could worsen fears of U.S. decline, the share of Americans struggling to put food on the table is now three times as large as the share of the Chinese population in the same position.

The United States' Basic Index Score, a Gallup measure of access to necessities, fell to 81.4 in September--even lower than the 81.5 mark it reached in February and March, 2009. The recession officially ended in June of that year, but the halting recovery hasn't given a sustained boost to the number of Americans able to provide for themselves. The government reported last month that a record number of Americans is living in poverty.

Between September 2008 and last month, the share of Americans with access to a personal doctor plummeted from 82.5 percent to 78.3 percent. The share with health insurance fell from 85.9 percent to 82.3 percent. And the share saying they had enough money to buy food for themselves and their family dropped from 81.1 percent to 80.1 percent. Gallup's surveys are based on phone and in-person interviews.

Meanwhile, Gallup found that just 6 percent of Chinese said there were times in the past 12 months when they lacked enough money for food for themselves or their family, compared to 19 percent of Americans. Just three years ago, those results were almost reversed: 16 percent of Chinese couldn't put food on the table at times, compared to 9 percent of Americans.

[Motown_Johnny]

66. Wow, it is even worse than I thought.

I may need to rephrase.


Thanks for posting that.

[CrispyQ]

69. That's shocking.

When will it sink into the average American that we are not number one? How bad does it have to get to jolt them out of their "USA! USA!" mindset?



on edit: And fuck the media for their dereliction of duty. Fuck fair & balanced. Sometimes 1+1 = 2 & there isn't another side & sometimes one side is actually greater than the other. I'm sick of the fair & balanced bullshit.

[grasswire]

3. I just read in the newspaper that when the SS COL goes up in Jan...

....the food stamp allotment goes down. So if a retiree gets a $20 cost of living adjustment to their monthly check, their food stamp allotment goes down $20.

In other words, there is no COL adjustment for those who happen to also be on food stamps.

[CrispyQ]

6. That's just wrong.

[rbrnmw]

7. Why aren't these things general knowledge?

Why are so many Democrats silent about the Real Poverty in this Country? When did feeding the hungry become evil and hated by so many Americans?

[SunSeeker]

11. Good question(s).

I remember asking a college professor of mine who (wrote books about poverty) why we don't do more to help the poor in America. He said it was because America hates the poor. This was decades ago and at the time he said it, I was shocked and didn't believe him. I believe him now.

[Panasonic]

8. I need a massive COLA increase

The SSDI money is just not cutting it in terms of today's dollars.

It needs to be at least double that, and just remove the goddamn income cap, and presto - no runnign out money before we get too old.

The billionaires will have to pay MASSIVELY into the SS and SS will be solvent for life.

[Downwinder]

9. When they reduced mine to $10.00 per month

I quit.

[rbrnmw]

15. Wow they were so generous

[chloes1]

38. Exactly!

I did as well. 10.00 to me, and roughly 20.00 in costs to "manage" the benefits. It seemed silly, so I just stopped collecting that benefit.

[shanti]

58. the same thing happens with medical insurance

when my pension COLA kicks in, my med insurance costs go up proportionately. nobody can get ahead anymore

[former9thward]

13. What are you posting about?

I know people on the food nutrition program and they are not working at $4 or any other amount.

[rbrnmw]

14. Well maybe they are disabled or elderly

or maybe they are in one of the few states that doesn't require them to if their child is under a certain age but here People have to work off Food Stamps

[DURHAM D]

17. I have never heard of a Work for Food Stamps program.

What state are you in?

[Honeycombe8]

19. Here in TX I don't think you have to work for food stamps. What state is that in? nt

[rbrnmw]

29. Ohio

[csziggy]

56. Wow - some of their "work related activities" are completely without pay!

Here is a link to a guidance letter on the subject. Much is written in bureaucratise but Ohio does require people to be in some sort of work related activity to receive family assistance, which can include food stamps.

http://jfs.ohio.gov/OWF/prc/Guidance/prc53.pdf

[former9thward]

22. No they are single, no children and able bodied.

Just not able to find work. I don't know what the state requirements are.

[surrealAmerican]

16. I think you're confusing food stamps ...

... (SNAP) with welfare (TANF). Food stamps does not have a work requirement, which is good because many food stamp recipients already have jobs (crappy low-wage jobs, that is).

[rbrnmw]

23. no food stamps have a work requirement too in some States

[surrealAmerican]

24. I'd never heard that.

What do the working poor do?

[Zoeisright]

36. Suffer. Go hungry.

Get 3 months in jail for stealing a candy bar. You know, like it was back in Charles Dickens' time.

http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/top-news/168048716.html

[gollygee]

37. That's right

We're making it illegal to be poor.

[Live and Learn]

28. Food Stamp Employment and Training (FSET) requirements

Each state sets up its own requirements to meet Section 6 d of the Food Stamp Act of 1977. Here is a good overview: http://www.nationalskillscoalition.org/federal-policies/snap/snap-documents/twa_fset_overview_2008.pdf

[hedgehog]

21. And God help any Food Stamp user who purchases

steak

prepared foods (macaroni & cheese dinner)

candy

soda.


Food stamps should be used only for cabbage and gruel, don'cha know!

[zuzu98]

25. should there be any expectation that FS recipients make the most of their FS dollar?

I don't begrudge a little kid cake & ice cream for their birthday, but I don't think it's outrageous to expect FS recipients to make the best use of a taxpayer-funded resource (don't we expect our government agencies to use tax dollars wisely?). One can purchase much greater quantities of ground chuck, chicken or tuna for the same amount of money spent on steak. Fresh produce and staples like rice & beans are less expensive than prepared foods and more nutritious as well. Candy and soda are luxuries that many using their own dollars would take off of their shopping list if money is tight.

[EC]

26. Let's say a food stamp recipient had something to celebrate

would you begrudge that? Maybe a steak dinner for an anniversary or a new job etc. How would we know why someone may want to buy a nice dinner? If they are mismanaging their stamps, they'll starve at the end of the month. Most that receive stamps know that and buy accordingly.

[zuzu98]

30. personally, no I wouldn't.

I think most people relying on FS have precious little to celebrate or look forward to, so a nice meal for a special occasion seems to be a small luxury society can afford.

I'm not interested in shaming or stigmatizing people on public assistance (my work involves serving an indigent population), but just as the agency I work for is expected to make the best use of the tax dollars we receive, I wonder if we should have similar expectations for individuals who receive things like foodstamps or TANF.

[EC]

33. Well, I think no, the government doesn't need to

put anymore restrictions than there are. The majority of people receiving allowances ARE motivated to spend them wisely since they don't want to starve at the end of the month. I think the restrictions are a bit too tight now. I really wish they would allow soap and cleaning supplies be allowed.

[rbrnmw]

34. again it isn't a freebie in a lot of places

there is a work requirement maybe someone should follow you around the grocery and complain about what you buy

[zuzu98]

40. I don't understand why you are so hostile

I simply posed a question on a "discussion" board. I have mixed feelings on this issue myself and am interested in what others think about it.

[Downwinder]

45. Is your office using Linux?

Much more cost effective than Windows.

[zuzu98]

71. unfortunately we're stuck with what the State gives us. n/t

[gollygee]

27. It's pretty complicated

Last edited Sun Sep 2, 2012, 06:20 PM - Edit history (1)

If someone is working two part-time jobs and picking up and dropping kids off hither and yon, those folks are eating prepared meals. Sure, it's better to cook from scratch, and cheaper, but it just isn't practical for people in some situations. And yes, you can have two horrible part-time jobs and still be on food stamps. Also, a lot of poor people live in a "food deserts" and don't have many healthy food options available. If you don't have a car and the only place within walking distance is a convenience store, you're eating convenience food.

I don't care too much about the pop/candy issue, but I'm not sure how much that'll really help. It seems like it is more about stigmatizing and shaming people than saving money or protecting health. I think most people when they shop might use some FS money and some of their own money, since food stamps don't provide enough to actually feed a family, so it would be more about separating stuff and having two receipts than saving money or eating better.

I hope I edit this before you read it: I'm not actually opposed to not letting candy/chips/soda/etc. be bought with food stamps. I just question whether the expense to change the set-up is justified, as I don't know how much it would cost to change and I don't know how much of a difference it would make.

[cali]

39. It's none of your business what I buy with my food stamps

as it happens I'm buying a lot of Frozen prepared food right now because getting down the stairs to the kitchen is too painful. I have a microwave and little fridge/freezer upstairs. I'm in too much pain right now to deal with cooking- which I love.

I don't drink soda or eat candy but they aren't luxuries, they are really cheap. A lot of people buy soda because it is so fucking cheap. And no you can't fucking buy a great quantity of ground chuck cheaply.

I paid taxes for 30 years, now due to the slings of fortune I'm using food stamps. It's an eye opening experience.

[Nikia]

46. When I was contemplating food stamps

Because I was out of a job without receiving unemployment, I bought some "expensive" bakery bread and "expensive" out of season produce at the grocery store. After I bought them, I thought that perhaps I wasted my money. Then I thought how glad that I was that I didn't have food stamps or someone would be judging me even though the rest of my purchases were fairly frugal.

[etherealtruth]

48. Perhaps we can also stipulate ...

... that recipients have working stoves and refrigerators ... for those in rural areas and inner cities we probably should insist they have cars that can transport groceries since there wont be any "real" grocery stores in close proximity ... we better make sure they have adequate time in the day (no pesky long public transportation commutes/ no 2 jobs).

I am sorry for the snark ... I believe you probably meant no ill ... but, I see your proposed requirement as infantilizing folk because they are poor. I accept that is not the spirit in which your question was intended ... but that really is the result

[zuzu98]

72. thank you for your response

I don't mind the snark because I see what you are getting at and it points to exactly my dilemma on this issue: I'm big on using public money in the best way possible, but in the case of EBT/FS, what would that look like and is that just another obstacle for the poor to overcome (for the reasons you list and more)? Just so you know, I work with poor people in a rural community with almost non-existent public transportation and only fair access to affordable groceries and other services, so I'm well aware of the problems you bring up.

[NMDemDist2]

54. at my store they often have 'Manager's Specials' on steaks and chops

that are cheaper than ground meat or chicken. It's the meat that's about to go out of date and needs to be consumed right away.

While you may not stretch a steak as far (altho you can if you know what you're doing) it's still a cheap protein source

[unapatriciated]

64. At the grocery store I work at, we pull and freeze those meats.

We than donate them to the local food bank daily along with fresh produce and sometimes even sweets. It isn't always about squeezing the last nickel of profit out of their inventory. It's more about giving back to the community that enables them to make a profit.

Local food banks are very low on food and have a much higher need than ever before.

[NMDemDist2]

82. that's wonderful

i live in a small town, we have one place that gives away meals only and i bet the store has something worked out for them too

[unapatriciated]

84. We are not as large a some of the major chains, so we are not in every state or city.

But we are a well recognized chain for California, Trader Joes. Each store donates at their local level.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

59. Even if a food stamp recipient buys something frivolous with their food stamps

it doesn't cost the taxpayer an extra penny, because recipients don't get extra food stamps just because they used them up.

[Egalitarian Thug]

60. No. To even suggest it shows a glaring defect in your humanity. n/t

[zuzu98]

70. I didn't "suggest" anything

I merely posed a question to get some other points of view. As I said in another post I have mixed feeling about the issue: I would hope that any person/agency/institution using any form of public money would do their best to make the most of it, while at the same time I have enormous sympathy for the hard lives of people living in poverty. I am trying to explore why there is often a feeling that people using EBT cards/TANF etc. should be restricted in any way but no one (I hope) thinks that people receiving SS or Medicare should be subject to such scrutiny. And the whole "corporations do it too" argument doesn't satisfy me. I do appreciate the thoughtful responses from many people on this thread who have actually helped me clarify my thoughts on the issue.

As to your judgment about a "glaring defect in my humanity:" just as many in this thread have urged others not to judge someone about whose circumstances they no little or nothing on the basis of how they pay for their groceries, I would urge you to do the same regarding one or two posts on a discussion board. I have spent my entire adult live serving an indigent population in a rural community and every single day I try to help them resolve their problems and get to a better place in life. I am active with our local animal shelter and a rescue group, to which I also contribute monetarily. I look after a former client who lives in a converted shed with no running water; she gets disability and a few dollars in food stamps -- which I do help her stretch as far as possible (I guess that makes me a bad person). Guess who buys her cigarettes and the little luxuries that her meager income won't cover? Yep, me, the one with the glaring defect in my humanity who hates poor people.

You certainly live up to at least part of your user name.

[Egalitarian Thug]

76. Re-read your reply, you made an explicit suggestion that "we know better than they do". n/t

[zuzu98]

80. sorry you feel that way

Not sure who you think "we" and "they" are. Nowhere in any post did I ever suggest or use the phrase "we know better than they do" nor does that in any way represent my thinking on this issue. I offered some examples of things I think would be cheaper than steak and processed food (because I was raised to be frugal and I often counsel clients about budgeting not because I think I "know better&quot .

[quaker bill]

62. It is too easy to impose moral judgements

on the poor. Why don't we instead consider imposing moral judgements on the folks who are getting tax payer funded $150K tax cuts? (you own a slice of a larger and larger debt each year so they don't have to make this payment) Shouldn't they be using this money efficiently and "creating jobs" with it?

I hear that they buy non American made cars and very fancy, (often French) food with it.

While we are ready to inspect the grocery bags of the poor for wise use of a pittance, we have a hard time wrapping our heads around the moral use of great wealth, or even looking at what they do with other than great reverence. Wealth buys you a pass from such moral judgements it seems.

[Cobalt Violet]

63. Maybe they have no home to cook and need prepared foods to eat at all.

Or maybe they have a home and no power or appliances to cook on and thus need prepared food.
We don't know and we need to stop automatically thinking the worse of poor people and what they do and why they do it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

73. Public assistance has a purpose.

Actually, it has several purposes;
1) provide economic stimulus to depressed communities
2) discourage civil unrest
3) provide nutrition, housing and adequate quality of life, especially for kids.

It is easy to argue that it's failing to achieve purpose #3, because there's a need #4 which is unmet; provide citizens the tools to make intelligent money choices and not be exploited by merchants. When you spend your food stamps on energy drinks, it's apparent that my purpose for providing aid is being subverted.

[kestrel91316]

78. Fresh produce is way more expensive than processed foods, and that's here in CA

where we grow most the nation's produce. Tuna and ground beef (or beef of any kind) are ghastly expensive.

If you want to live on more than dried beans and bulk bags of rice, you're gonna need a lot more than food stamps here.

[dkf]

79. Maybe that is the point...give nutritious foods, not dollar amounts on EBT cards.

Wouldn't that actually be more humane?

[kestrel91316]

83. That would be an excellent solution. Don't ever expect a Repuke to vote for it, though.

[progressivebydesign]

31. My Mom gets $13.00 a month in food stamps.

Seriously. And she is considered disabled extreme low income.

[ismnotwasm]

32. I used food stamps for years.

Years that fed my kids, and got me through school. I was on welfare, I lived in housing projects. I consider myself very lucky to have found enough support along the way to get a college degree and a good job. Very, very lucky. That was back in the day before 'reform'

I know what it's like when your kids want a treat, what you have in the freezer are chicken backs and salmon patties from the food bank, (and gov'ment cheese in the fridge of course) and you stand in the check out line, feeling the judgment and contempt roll off of people because you have food stamps in the first place, and maybe you gave in and bought them ice cream or something. WIC was just as bad.

I don't judge those receiving assistance--I was there, and you know what else? I didn't always make the best choices. But I can tell you what it was like.

So yeah, Romney and co. Can shut the fuck right up.

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. There but for the grace of God go the rest of us

Thank you for sharing your story.

[lib2DaBone]

35. If you are hungry and you need food stamps... you MUST be drug tested....

When will the voters in the United States tire of the Right-Wing bullies and the Evangelical CRAZIES?

Never you say?

Well, I think you are correct.

[Aerows]

41. A large number of food stamp recipients

are in the military. I'd like to see a teabagger tell a soldier that his or her family doesn't deserve food stamps because they are "lazy". To their faces.

[Mmm_Bacon]

68. As someone who has been in charge of the Soldiers...

... I will tell you that I would have that conversation with them.

If I saw them buying all the things listed in the OP (minus drugs) and they were on some form of welfare as well, I would encourage them to save those funds and use them more wisely. The goal should be for them to use their money wisely so they can get off of the program as soon as possible.

It's a legitimate point.

[Blue Belle]

42. My favorites are all the idiots who applaud states like Florida...

for passing laws requiring food stamp recipients to take drug tests. Their argument is that if you need a drug test to get a job, then you should have to pass one to get food assistance. The reality is, these drug tests are expensive and a very small percentage of drug users have been caught, but dammit, it's worth it if those druggies get booted off the system. These are the same people (read: republican idiots) that claim government should be more fiscally responsible.

[rbrnmw]

44. I'm fucking sick of it

I think liberals should follow the bastards around the store and ask them why they are buying what they are buying. Say things like why are you buying that? wouldn't your tax break be better used if you bought this instead?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

61. Actually, drug tests for a job are just another way to make sure that the

peasants know they're peasants.

I bet you don't have to take a drug test if you're a top executive lured away from another corporation.

[Blue Belle]

74. Actually , I never thought of that, but it's probably true...

just like running credit checks. I never understood why they do this, it just prevents any upward mobility for those who want to pay off their debt and have a better life.

[etherealtruth]

43. I am glad you posted this ...

I click on these links with a lot of trepidation ... fearing that some idiot is posting their 'welfare queen" story.

This is not.

I spend very close to three times as much for groceries per month as the typical alotment of FS (for an average family of 3). I am grateful for what I have and do not begrudge those less fortunate

[rbrnmw]

49. Thank You for pointing that out

I spend almost 1000 on groceries a month my neighbor who has 1 more child than I do gets 688 in fs I don't buy luxury anything I don't know how she does it but she does

[marlakay]

47. 30 years ago when we were broke and out of work

I was on them for 9 months. I am glad to have had that experience because I have great empathy for anyone on them. You get dirty looks at the store no matter what you buy. And I couldn't even afford the basics back then so had no extras at all…we were lucky just to eat!

[gollygee]

52. I would hate to have people judging my groceries

And I generally buy pretty healthy stuff. But even then, you'd get sneers for getting anything organic. And remember the article where people were going after a woman who bought GRAPES with food stamps, saying they were too expensive and she should live within her means? Unless you live on beans and rice (and they'd better be generic! ) people would complain about something.

[Nikia]

55. And grapes are one of the cheaper fruits

It would have really been horrible if she had bought peaches, plums, or any kind of berry especially in the winter.

[marlakay]

57. The whole thing is really sad

Because I can't think of anyone who wants to be on food stamps unless they need them.

Sometimes when I shop now I will look at my pile of stuff, one day I am all good and everything is healthy, next time I might add brownie mix or some candy...I eat normally pretty well since I turned 50 6 years ago, I think as you age you think more about your health.

[dkf]

81. I applauded that woman for buying grapes.

If we aimed aid at the best foods maybe we could replace corn and create economies of scale.

Quinoa would be perfect.

http://blog.mediaglobal.org/?p=703
Named the International Year of Quinoa, in an effort to highlight the healthy grain-like crop and acknowledge its indigenous growers, the year 2013 is going to be a nutritionally satisfying one, according to the Bolivian government and the UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO).
Last December, the FAO accepted Bolivia’s proposal to focus on quinoa in 2013, and a group gathered at the UN today to discuss the initiative further.

The grain has always been a staple in Andean meals, and it recently became a popular choice on plates worldwide. As part of the International Year of Quinoa, food security, agriculture, and nutrition experts want to work together to make sure traditional growers can keep up with rising demand, and that the crop can continue to feed millions even as a rising population and growing food shortages make eradicating hunger a formidable challenge.

One of the things that makes quinoa a “super food” is its resilience and variety. There are more than 1,800 different types of quinoa that can be grown under a variety of sometimes harsh conditions. In an environment where climate change and natural disasters are threatening many traditional types of agriculture, heartiness is a much-desired quality in any crop.