"Why Do So Many Southerners Think They're the Only Real Americans?"

[applegrove]

Why Do So Many Southerners Think They're the Only Real Americans?

By Chuck Thompson at AlterNet

http://www.alternet.org/books/why-do-so-many-southerners-think-theyre-only-real-americans?paging=off

"SNIP.........................................

Wrote Gladwell: “Most of the young men from the northern part of the United States treated the incident with amusement. They laughed it off. Their levels of cortisol actually went down, as if they were unconsciously trying to defuse their own anger. But the Southerners? Oh, my. They were angry. Their cortisol and testosterone jumped.”

A good friend of mine, a Vietnam veteran, talks on occasion about the most powerful narcotic he ever experienced.

“Anger,” Robert will say slowly. “Anger distorts reality as much as drugs. I was angry most of the time I was in Vietnam and for two years after I got out.”

Anger often stands in for rational analysis in the South, and, as with my friend Robert, a festering lesion of military resentment burbles behind it.

...........................................SNIP"

[Skittles]

1. because their dittomasters tell them they are special

all evidence to the contrary

[applegrove]

2. If anger makes them prone to being unrealistic..no wonder they get so

Last edited Fri Sep 14, 2012, 07:47 PM - Edit history (1)

whipped up by GOP fear and lies. Because they react with anger they keep their territory intact (their world view) and never see the shades of grey. It is said that with sadness one perceives the world or oneself is not perfect, accepts the loss, and adjusts one's thinking. Perhaps Southerners have had to suppress their sadness to get through tough times in history with fight (anger) instead. Still suppression of any important emotions is not appropriate for this modern era. It is an old time coping skill.

*Edited to add: I don't know if I should be using the word 'suppression' rather than 'sublimation'.

[NYC_SKP]

4. No region of the country is without it's regional bias, it's ethnocentric bias.

I just sat on a jury deliberating this OP and voted to leave it.

[applegrove]

5. Everyone has blind spots. Still, there is a part of the country that continually votes against

its own economic best interest. Thank you for voting to let this topic stand. To think that the GOP don't suss out the details of the psychis of people from various parts of the country is foolish. And how do we fight them if we don't discuss our differences.

[geckosfeet]

3. This piece was discussed in a thread earlier as well.

Insightful read.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=40633

Why Do So Many Southerners Think They're the Only Real Americans?

One South Carolinian's review of my book referred to my visit to the KKK-themed Redneck Shop in Laurens, South Carolina, as evidence that I was merely "seeking out feeble-minded Klansmen" and that I went to the South "to see the ridiculous and dreadful things (I) knew would be there."

One wonders why this Southerner—and others who beat the same drum of outrage—are not instead asking, "Why is a KKK Grand Dragon able to operate a long-running business selling Klan robes, booklets outlining Klan rituals and related disease across from the courthouse in a town square in 2012?"

[Are_grits_groceries]

11. FYI-That shop is now owned by an African American pastor and his church.

It can't be closed until the owner dies because of legal agreements in leases.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/13/us/in-laurens-sc-the-redneck-shop-and-its-neighbor.html?pagewanted=all

[geckosfeet]

27. Eh? The kkk grand dragon is an African American pastor?

Uneasy Neighbors in a Southern Gothic Tale
Now, in a quirk of fate laced with lawsuits, religious conversions and a small-town Southern narrative Harper Lee might deliver, a black pastor will eventually control what just might be the most famous white supremacist shop in America.

Last month, a state circuit judge in Greenwood, S.C., decided that Pastor Kennedy’s tiny New Beginning Missionary Baptist Church held the valid title to the old Echo Theater, whose lobby the Redneck Shop occupies. It was handed over fair and square years earlier by an acolyte of John Howard, the Klan leader who founded the shop.

The building itself has racism in its mortar. It had been a segregated movie theater in a town named after an 18th-century slave trader, Henry Laurens. For years, black moviegoers had to use the side door and sit in the balcony.

One might think church members would simply shut down the shop. They cannot. Not yet. The terms of the deed stipulate that Mr. Howard, who has hosted international gatherings of neo-Nazi groups in the building, can keep the shop until he dies.

Well I guess it's true. The judge rules that the lease is all legal and good to go, and that apparently, it cannot be contested.

[geckosfeet]

29. at the risk of offending the "fair use gods",

Uneasy Neighbors in a Southern Gothic Tale

there could be a foreclosure auction. The shop and its contents, robes and all, could go to the church.

When that day comes, plans will be made. The old Echo Theater might become an arts center for youth, or a civic center. Or, in what would be a cinematic ending, a new home for the tiny church, which now holds services in a double-wide trailer.

"We know it won’t be a place for any race to have a supremacist mentality," Pastor Kennedy said. "Whatever we do, it will be a place that will not only talk about diversity, it will live diversity and celebrate it."

This indeed an interesting story. All the hate, racism and kkk nonsense appears to be coming to a head through the kind acts of a southern church.

[bluestateguy]

6. They stabbed America in the back in 1861

I find that unforgivable.

[Llewlladdwr]

7. I'm sure it was a very traumatic time for you. NT

[MrSlayer]

14. +100

[Jamastiene]

64. ...

Good one.

That should be a DUzy.

[tjdee]

8. Funny how they wanna claim the whole thing now.

Esp Texas.

Not a big deal but that sure is an interesting sidenote.

[cordelia]

23. Every single one of them should be rounded up TODAY

and punished to the fullest extent the law allows!

Oh wait. 1861.

I hate smilies, but imagine that loathsome eye-rolling one here.

[Jamastiene]

68. In a just DU world,

this would be another great DUzy. Well played.

[left on green only]

9. I think they must have all seen the movie "Deliverance"....

and from that have taken a code for the correct behavior of the typical southerner.

[rppper]

10. lifelong southerner here...

yeah, the south is made up most of mostly red states, and my home state of texas has had its moments, but from personal experience i have met just as many racists and republican douche-rockets from the rust belt, Wisconsin and New york as i have from "the south".....which btw is what you "carpetbagging yankees" call the south just as much as southerners.....it's easy to talk BS about southern DU'ers that have to put up with the right wing/racist bullsh@t daily, only to come here, in a safe zone, and be harassed for living in the southern half of the united states...clean up your own yards before you sh*t on ours.....

sorry for language.....

[left on green only]

12. Touche

It's just that that movie, along with "Easy Rider" had a profound effect on the way that I view the typical Southern mentality.

[rppper]

13. i wasn't pointing you out friend....

i've been posting on this site since 2001, and the south has always taken a lot of BS...some of it deserved, most of it made up....i've never traveled to the northwest and the grain states, but ive been up and down the I95 corridor and the eastern 1/3 of the northern US and i've seen a number of unfriendly, morose and apathetic people in my travels...you just get sick of hearing it, and i find the whole "hillbilly-inbred-screwing/marrying-your-cousin-southerner" thing dated to say the least....

[twins.fan]

15. The same political philosophy prevails in Utah, Idaho, and North Dakota.

[Odin2005]

19. North Dakota is way culturally different than the South.

Yes, it is socially conservative, but that is because it is mainly rural. In other respects ND is very egalitarian and community-oriented, as opposed to the hierarchical, almost feudal, authoritarianism of Southern culture.

[DirkGently]

31. And Kansas? And Michigan? And Ohio?

I suppose Michigan's Emergency Manager Law is super "egalitarian" too? Your xenophobic hatred of the South is as ignorant and dishonest as any East-Coast lib bashing coming from the right.

[Odin2005]

36. Northern and Western conservatism is mostly based on...

Rural social conservatism and Libertarian attitudes derived from the pioneer days. It does not have the quasi-feudal and theocratic nature of Southern "Movement Conservatism".

[twins.fan]

34. Feudal is a good word for the old confederacy, and perhaps the entire country ...

I have never been in North Dakota, so I cannot comment about "egalitarian" principles. But I have lived in multiple southern locations, and I see a big difference between each.

For instance, I consider Texans to be New Yorkers with a southern accent. A polite way to describe their personalities may be to say that they are both very proud of themselves. Of course most generalizations are unfair because there are New Yorkers and Texans who are not condescending and insulting, but those that are condescending and insulting are sometimes easier to remember than the New Yorkers and Texans who are not condescending and insulting.

[dawg]

39. The South is rural and community-oriented as well.

The plains states have no more or no less of an excuse for their reactionary voting patterns than do the Southern states. The result is the same, and many of their motivations - whether you choose to believe it or not - are also the same.

No region of this country is without blame.

[Jamastiene]

66. +1000000

"No region of this country is without blame."

[Warpy]

56. You hit on something very important there

Society in the antebellum south was based largely on the English country aristocracy, the large land/slave owners being the aristocrats and everybody else to honor and serve them in one capacity or another. They are still wildly authoritarian in that regard, although their respect for authority doesn't extend to Presidents who come from outside the south or who make policy that doesn't jibe with southern perceptions of how things should be.

[Odin2005]

57. Yup, and Northern values are strongly based on the Puritains.

With a strong influence of Pietism, the Lutheran equivalent of Puritanism, in the Midwest from all the Germans and Scandinavians. That mixture is responsible for the communitarian ethos of the reliably Blue northern tier of states. These areas see freedom as the right to freely participate in the political process and in civil society.

The lower Midwest has a much stronger Scots-Irish influence and so tends more towards RW Libertarian values, hence the "get dat evul big gummit off my back" rhetoric.

If you look at election data from the 1860 election you can see the upper-lower midwest split in that the culturally "upper" areas were Republican and the "lower" areas were solidly Democratic. This line goes through the center of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Missouri.

[nopedontlikeitatall]

16. People HATE the south and people love the south

I know I personally HATE the place and do not visit and I avoid at all costs.

On the other had some people love the place and that is where they choose to live for whatever reason.

I look at it this way, if you don’t like the place or people or whatever, don’t go to it, and avoid it.

Many in the south do not like the North and thankfully most stay away, especially in winter; snow is a great natural repellant BTW.

People bash the North all the time… too many people, too fast paced, too many educated people, too many rude people, etc….

Unfortunately the south nor the North will not be breaking away anytime soon so we have to find a way to live together and the best way IMHO is to just avoid the places and people you do not like, simple solution.

"Good fences make good neighbors."

[Fawke Em]

41. Wow... if there were any more cliches and bigotry

in this post, I would have thought I took a wrong turn to Freeperville.

(Psst... bigotry is bigotry and it matters not on whom you're bashing).

[cordelia]

59. + 1000

[nopedontlikeitatall]

85. I don't like beets either and avoid them too

Guess that makes me a beet bigot.

There is no requirement for anyone to like everything or everyplace or everyone in America.

[Fawke Em]

95. Oh.. so beets are human, now.

They have feelings, grow up and vote.

Didn't know that. Please elaborate.

If beets are human, now, and have rights, I guess they can vote.

[Odin2005]

17. I find this "True American" crap offensive after the shit they pulled in 1861.

Southerners have no right to call themselves True Americans, True Americans beat the living shit out of them and freed their slaves.

[nopedontlikeitatall]

18. +1000

[Odin2005]

20. When I was little I knew a woman whose great-grandfather fought at Gettysburg.

He was a member of the famous 1st Minnesota. After the war he settled in the Red River Valley. She was born there in 1898

[riverwalker]

28. story of the 15th Wisconsin

a Union regiment consisting of new Norwegian immigrants, barely off the ship. They took the issue of slavery personally. Have many family who fought for the Union in the Civil War, all first generation Norwegian immigrants , one sent to Andersonville, many died.

[twins.fan]

40. Often insults such as yours reflect more on the person issuing the insult than the ones to whom ...

the insults are directed. Your mocking behavior of Southerners in insulting, condescending, and unnecessary!

I assume that is a photo of Paul Wellstone in your avatar. You are an insult to his good name.

[Zalatix]

26. Right on! Preach it!

[twins.fan]

38. As I remember, it was Lyndon Baines Johnson who was President when ...

the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act was passed.

[Art_from_Ark]

71. And three of the last four Democratic Presidents

have hailed from the South, as did the man who should have been our 43rd President, Al Gore.

[Fawke Em]

96. And "they" are still alive.

Um.. no.

[Biafran]

21. the question is

why do you care what southerners think?

[scheming daemons]

25. because their voting patterns saddle the rest of us with GOP Presidents and congresses

...that's why

[mmonk]

22. Southerner here. I don't think that way.

Ask Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, or Al Gore or some other southerner or former southerner. I don't have an answer.

[cordelia]

24. Why post this divisiveness? Why the South bashing

this close to the election?

Agenda?

[99Forever]

35. If you think this piece was about "bashing the South" ...

.. then you either didn't read it or have failed to comprehend what it actually was saying. If it's the latter, then you are evidence that the author was spot on. Kneejerk responses to ANY critical analysis of the region by it's inhabitants IS very much typical AND the exact point the author was making. Like or don't like it, you did exactly what (s)he predicted.

[twins.fan]

45. Personally, I have read the words of many of the contributors here, word for word, ...

and quite frankly, I find those words insulting. And I find your diatribe insulting too!

[99Forever]

47. Enjoy yopur stay.

[cordelia]

83. That's rich.

Enjoy your stay.



Insert childish smiley here.

[GoneOffShore]

48. Did you read the actual article?

Or are you just spouting off?

Nowhere is it written that you have a right not to be offended - especially on an internet discussion board.

If I was Taterguy, I'd make use of the "Taterguy exception" in describing you.

[twins.fan]

49. I did read the article, and I consider the people about whom the author writes are nuts ...

But many of the comments in this thread are written about people from the South in general. I find the generalizations insulting.

I am not sure what a Taterguy is, but I am sure that it is an insult, another clumsy, unnecessary insult. I am not your enemy, and many other people from the south are not your enemy.

[cordelia]

60. So, you subscribe to region bashing. Got it.

Thanks for exposing your small-mindedness.

[99Forever]

70. That's all you've got?

[cordelia]

82. Oh. OK. So you're proud of being

small minded and with bigoted opinions.

It amazes me the things people take pride in.

[99Forever]

84. Whatever you say, lady.

[pecwae]

72. Because South and 'fat' bashing

are the two areas they can always get away with. Sometimes you can add in a bit of gay and woman hating without consequences, but Southerners and anyone considered to be 'fat' are very fair game.

[DirkGently]

30. Romney's from MI. Ryan's Wisconsin. Palin's Alaska.

Miltias are Midwest. "Stop the NY mosque" was from ... somewhere north of Mason-Dixon. Bitherism's lead nutwad is a Californian.

Smug geographical xenophbia is for conservative assholes. We're smarter than that here.

[djean111]

32. Yes. Thank you.

[Odin2005]

37. But Birtherism is cocenentrated in the South

Why? Because it's racist code for "Blacks are not real Americans".

[Lex]

52. Ask Donald Trump or Sheriff Arapaio.

Oh wait.

[Odin2005]

58. Understanding of statistics FAIL.

[twins.fan]

54. That may be ...

Everytime that somebody talks birth certificates, Obama should be paying them money. The people who talk that stuff are idiots, whether they are from the south or whatever. That discussion just takes oxygen out of the room that could be used to raise objections against Obama that are more substantial.

The birther discussion doesn't hurt Obama; the birther objection hurts Romney.

[hack89]

61. Orly Taitz from California. Leo Donofrio, Mario Apuzzo and Philip Berg from New Jersey.

Birtherism is found in every part of America.

[twins.fan]

51. Thank You! And where was Ronnie Raygun from?

[madrchsod]

53. republican illinois..opps ,he was a democrat when he left..

[99Forever]

33. Never forget this:

"Blind Southern anger brought this country to its knees once before. It’s up to reasonable Southerners not to let it happen again."

[dawg]

42. In the 2008 election ...

47% of Georgians voted for President Obama while 51% percent of Ohioans did.

Clearly, the North and South are two totally different worlds.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/results/president/map.html

[1monster]

43. What a disgusting, divisive article. At one point the author asks if anyone has

ever heard a kind word for the north from a southerner.

I lived my first eighteen years in the north and the last few decades in the south. (BTW, I'm much more liberal now than I was when living in the north.) I can honestly say that I can't remember ever hearing southerners bashing the north (yeah, they do talk up the south, but that isn't bashing the north). I have, however, read many, many, many, posts on DU pulverizing the south, collectively and individually (states).

Folks, ignorance is not solved by treating it with contempt. Patience, kindness, courtesy, and a willingness to respectfully teach and inform other AND at the same time LEARN from your students will solve the problems a whole lot more effectively.

The article was so much horse puckey.

[hedgehog]

44. Why do so many think that right wing whites from the British Isles are the

only Southerners?

[Marinedem]

46. Holy Hell.

Is the irony lost on everyone in this thread?

Accusing Southerners of thinking they are the only real Americans, then having a bunch of Northerners dog on the south (And imply that THEY are the real Americans)?


I have news for everyone. Racism and backwardness is NOT regional.

I'm from West Virginia, and I NEVER heard the word "Ni@@er" more than on a trip to Massachusetts last winter.

But hey, marginalize the South as much as you wish.

[Jamastiene]

67. South bashing is not only NOT against the rules here,

it is encouraged routinely. They don't care if their fellow DUers are liberals and from the south. They see us as just as horrible as the right wing hateful jerks from the south. They hate us just as much as they do them and it shows. These threads are always enlightening.

[annabanana]

50. kick. He makes a good point about "thin-skinedness" . . .n/t

[ashling]

55. And Alaskans

and remember when Sarah was talking to "the real America": in Pennsylvania!

[Cannikin]

62. Yet another Southerner here who doesn't think that way.

Lets try to avoid the stereotypes!

[arely staircase]

63. it is actually an inferiority complex of sorts

eom

[applegrove]

65. By using anger to suppress sadness at harsh realities, they are not growing up.

They have been through so much in the last 200 years. They have 'lost' much (I put the lost in quotes because things like losing the civil war and losing the civil rights war were good things).

[pecwae]

73. I'm so glad

you know so very much about my psyche. What would I do as a lifelong Southerner and progressive without you to tell me what I think? I should bow down to your superior intelligence, but I can no longer bend at the waist for all the years of whistling Dixie and standing at attention in front of the Confederate flag.

[applegrove]

78. So let us democrats stick our heads in the sand and ignore the greatest

voting bloc the Republicans have and why they vote the way they do. Of course not everybody fits a pattern. That goes without saying. But it is a pattern that the South votes for the repukes. It is okay to wonder why.

[arely staircase]

80. chicken vs egg

which came first? they think they get no respect so they amplify the behaviors to annoy their disrespectors which gets them less respect.

[nolabels]

69. Everybody is brainwashed in one way or the other

There are a lot native Americans out here in California who resent being called Americans.

Can't we all just get along

[PotatoChip]

74. Ouch! That article was ugly.

I've never been to 'the south' but I find it hard to believe that it's as bad as the author of the article makes it out to be.

Anyone can find people of 'poor character' (for lack of a better term) in all regions of this country, if you are actively looking for them. It appears to me that this is what the author of the article was doing.

[Jennicut]

75. It pisses me off.

I am a New Englander. My freakin ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War. If anything, if it wasn't for us "Yankees" there wouldn't be a United States. To let the worst of the South be in control...they need to come to terms with their own history before making any judgments about us up here. I don't want the south to secede but it does need to change.

[ladjf]

76. Ignorance. nt

[The Midway Rebel]

77. I love threads like this.

I am an MA student studying 19th century history so I have had to move beyond the superficial Ken Burn's type of histories and dig deep into primary sources and read a shit pile of books on the ACW.

I am also from the upper South.

People like to paint shit black and white when real history is in full bloom technicolor.

Rant on you boneheads! Your shallow understanding of histroy makes me feel smart when I know I ain't.

[deaniac21]

81. What are your thoughts on

The Civil War: A Narrative

[The Midway Rebel]

88. I love Foote!

I have not read the entire 3 volumes though.

[jsmirman]

92. The story was

he would talk to anyone about his books who brought in a nice whiskey to kick off the conversation.

[deaniac21]

94. I've read it all but it was ten years ago. Still have the books so I'll probably read again

Foote talked the same way he wrote. Too bad that he is gone. His segments in Ken Burns documentary are all just great!

[jsmirman]

86. Well, I'm an antebellum American South scholar myself

what are you bringing to the table here?

I don't think this thread is necessarily productive at this moment, and have refrained from comment.

Not clear, though, as to what you are trying to add to things.

Since you claim an expertise, though, what are your thoughts on Cash's "The Mind of the South" or C. Vann's "Origins of the New South"?

I will state that it is crazy talk to me to not acknowledge the "uniqueness" of life in many southern states (now, being from the "upper South," I'm not sure you qualify as being from "the Real South&quot .

It's different. But I don't know why we want to talk about our differences right now.

[The Midway Rebel]

89. Nice to meet you!

The South is not monochrome gray, it rather technicolor and that is what I am trying to bring to the table.

I have not read those books yet and to be honest, as a grad student, I do not have time this semester. Maybe later. I have recently read Amy Greenberg, Stephanie Mc Curry, Diane Mutti-Burke, McPherson, Nicole Etcheson, and other works by Woodward and Cash. So many great books and so little time to read them.

I highly recommend "Confederate Reckoning" by Stephanie Mc Curry. She best illustrates my point here, the solid South never was very solid.

Thanks for your recommendation of "My Tears Spoiled My Aim". My current plans for a dissertation lean toward Border War history but GAWD how I love MUSIC! Cannot believe I had not herard about it. And that book was published by my own university's press!

[jsmirman]

91. My Tears Spoiled My Aim is a very quick read

it may be a *little* dated at this point, but it's so well-written and it nails a lot of stuff that I doubt has changed. It's also frequently hilarious.

The author has also put out something more recently that I've been meaning to get to.

On Woodward and Cash, I'd just recommend getting to the books I mentioned at some point because those two books are so seminal in the field of "understanding the New South."

I look into getting McCurry either digitally or some other way, but I'm going to be busy trying to help win an election!!!

[jsmirman]

93. As to the topic of the thread

what I would say is that denying the real differences that exist between life in some of the southern states and the rest of the country seems a bit silly, but then, this is not the time to belabor them, and many regions have particularities and peculiarities. Without question, not all Southern states are made alike (I always measured the true starting point of "the south" as the point in North Carolina where the gas station beef jerky started getting good - now, as a vegetarian, I would need a new trick).

Personally, though, I find Charleston, SC, home of the initial flashpoint of secession, to be one of the more northward-looking of southern cities I've visited.

[jsmirman]

87. And for a slightly more recent choice

I particularly enjoyed "My Tears Spoiled My Aim," which is a brilliant collection of articles on country music and cultural identity.

[hughee99]

79. Possibly for the same reason some people from other parts of the country

think Southerners are all ignorant racists. Ignorance.

[geardaddy]

90. I've seen the same behavior in the 6th District in MN.

It's not just the south.

[YoungDemCA]

97. Good point

I've seen it in California, too (you know, that "crazy librul" state...)